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Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2011.01.17 12:47:00 - [151]
 

This Topic and CSM repport over 8 pages of blah blah about jump bridges, i read them all and this question comes up in mi mind right now:

Is the removal of jump bridges changing anything about risk vs reward making carebears or new players and old 0.0 digs come in to low/null? - can't see how after all these posts.

Is there any comment from CCP crowd that makes us think that changes will be made in this or that direction and talking about nerfs/boosts blah blah blah: no

I can't see how how these sumits are an answer to all players expectations, i see them more like one way to keep people busy in the forum with speculations while they are doing the oposite.

Did you read something from them sayin "well our position about this issue or opinion is blah blah blah", no you can't, just dipplomatic words to make more noise with forum threads Laughing

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.17 13:02:00 - [152]
 

Anyone who thinks (hopes?) CCP will remove jump bridges and do nothing else to balance other issues that deal with power blocks, logistics and sov is a fool.

What needs to happen now is some creative thinking by the player base, CSM and ultimately CCP.

Some issues that players have about it is minerals. We all would love to be able to be self sufficient deep into 0.0 but the obvious facts are some regions are laced with limitless money opportunities while others are absolute utter ****. Those crap regions have options though. They can be upgraded in a variety of ways. Military upgrades so you can run Sanctums 23/7 is not your only option.

The industrial upgrade provides a way for you to get the minerals you need to survive out there. There is also wormhole upgrades to open up ways to possibly get quickly to empire or other parts of the university to get your PvP rocks off. Some upgrade to do mini-professions but I have no clue what they are talking about really.

Now before you go raging about how you can make a lot more money running Sanctums instead of mining consider the fact that those minerals will be a lot more valuable if they don't have to compete with Jita prices way out in the far reaches of 0.0. Now if the tables or minerals available is not up to what it needs to be then CCP can make adjustments. The bottom line is you don't have to suck Jita's tit to get the minerals you need to survive.

Of course all this fun mining will draw attention and brace yourselves. You might actually need some protection doing it. Don't let some lone AFK ***** ass cloaker get the best of you and shut down your whole mining operation. Maybe this means a boost for durability for mining ships? More things to consider. Also don't forget it may result is some bad guys coming to shut the operation down and viola, you got PvP on your hands and you didn't have to fly those pesky 30 jumps everyone was complaining about to get those good fights.

Static moon goo needs to be done away with too. How is up for debate as well. Of course I expect every entity that is currently lapping up the moon goo to rage completely at this idea. After all they fought long and hard to get it. It's not like it was just tossed on their lap in their already fortified power block. Right? Anyways, in order to pull off removing static moon goo it most likely would required a POS overhaul. I'm sure no one would miss the current nightmare we have today.

Other things would deal with super caps and capitals in general. Lowering their jump range? Cyno spool up timers? Remove titan jump bridge as well? All of these things need to be considered.

Let's not forget about how sov works. I believe alliances should be allowed to have those great friends if they want, but where is the balance in that? I believe it should not be possible to get a system sov level to level 5 unless all adjacent systems are under your alliances sov. Blue or not, alliance borders should be vulnerable and players should patrol and such to keep it secure. No more AFK secure stuff. Again, my opinion of one of the things that can be done.

All in all there is a dozen thing that can be adjusted to make 0.0 a lot more exciting than the mess it is right now. So now is the time to start thinking of reasonable changes that would help.

captain foivos
Posted - 2011.01.17 13:29:00 - [153]
 

Edited by: captain foivos on 17/01/2011 13:30:11
Dear CCP and CSM:

The law of Unintended Consequences states that if you remove jumpbridges

THEN PEOPLE WILL JUST USE TITAN BRIDGES. AND IF YOU REMOVE TITAN BRIDGES, TITANS BECOME MERE OVERPRICED DREADNAUGHTS




But of course, perhaps you want things to be that way.

TL;DR forcing people to change their behavior through game mechanics hasn't really worked well in the past, and won't work now. People are drawn to the easiest solution to a problem.

Though, I admit, a reduction in jumpbridge range would be an interesting idea.



As an aside to dear Greyscale, I have lived in and out of 0.0 the last couple years and I have yet to see a dime of moongoo money. Why? Because all moons worth having are currently under the hand of large alliances' leadership groups. Regular players never see any money from moons because everyone knows where to find the good stuff, and the group with more firepower almost inevitably ends up controlling the moon.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.17 13:42:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: captain foivos
As an aside to dear Greyscale, I have lived in and out of 0.0 the last couple years and I have yet to see a dime of moongoo money. Why? Because all moons worth having are currently under the hand of large alliances' leadership groups. Regular players never see any money from moons because everyone knows where to find the good stuff, and the group with more firepower almost inevitably ends up controlling the moon.


Which is why removing the static part of 'static moon goo' needs to happen along with other things like removing jump bridges. And stop with the bull**** over priced Dreadnought line. Even if they removed the jump bridge ability from titans or changed it so it was forced jumped at the end of its bridge to the destination, it is still very powerful.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.01.17 14:28:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: captain foivos

[allcaps drivel]



Titans are not overpriced. They are in every single way better than dreads, not just a straight upgrade but an incredibly superior one. Limiting their bridging ability won't nerf them in any meaningful capacity.

Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
POD-SQUAD
Posted - 2011.01.17 14:53:00 - [156]
 

Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 17/01/2011 14:53:36
do iT! You had the balls to nuke learning skills (finally, after 3 years!)
NUke the jump bridges. All of them. After all, we have jump freighters for a reason. And I am not sure about titans.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:53:00 - [157]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 17/01/2011 17:02:01
Originally by: Shobon Welp
Alliances that put in the effort and put down the infrastructure gain the benefit. 0.0 is only 'safer' than highsec in the sense that alliances provide the security themselves and human brains are better able to work towards mutual protection than NPCs.

Why is everyone so obsessed with making 0.0 life filled with as much time-consuming and un-fun bull**** as possible? I realise that highsec nobodies who've never stepped outside Motsu and Jita have a limited grip on what EVE is, but the idea that players spending an hour warping through empty systems to fight for 3 minutes would be good for EVE, or that 'sorry guys, we can't do the roaming HAC op tonight because we need you to escort our freighters for 30 jumps instead' is going to make people want to log in and play, isn't based on anything resembling objective game concerns.


This. Without jump bridges, 0.0 would become even more carebear land. No one would travel anywhere, so null space would be even safer just because of the fact that it is huge and mostly empty.

You like those shiny faction modules and ships? I'm sorry, I'm not going to run gates to bring them back to Jita to sell them. You want that dread guristas module, you come out to null sec to get it.

I play this game to have fun, not to jump gates all day. That's not fun.

Massive Dragon
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:07:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
Edited by: Bagehi on 17/01/2011 17:02:01
Originally by: Shobon Welp
Alliances that put in the effort and put down the infrastructure gain the benefit. 0.0 is only 'safer' than highsec in the sense that alliances provide the security themselves and human brains are better able to work towards mutual protection than NPCs.

Why is everyone so obsessed with making 0.0 life filled with as much time-consuming and un-fun bull**** as possible? I realise that highsec nobodies who've never stepped outside Motsu and Jita have a limited grip on what EVE is, but the idea that players spending an hour warping through empty systems to fight for 3 minutes would be good for EVE, or that 'sorry guys, we can't do the roaming HAC op tonight because we need you to escort our freighters for 30 jumps instead' is going to make people want to log in and play, isn't based on anything resembling objective game concerns.


This. Without jump bridges, 0.0 would become even more carebear land. No one would travel anywhere, so null space would be even safer just because of the fact that it is huge and mostly empty.

You like those shiny faction modules and ships? I'm sorry, I'm not going to run gates to bring them back to Jita to sell them. You want that dread guristas module, you come out to null sec to get it.

I play this game to have fun, not to jump gates all day. That's not fun.




you are either really stupid or... wait nvm.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:12:00 - [159]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 17/01/2011 17:15:21
Originally by: Massive Dragon
you are either really stupid or... wait nvm.


Say whatever you want. Removing jump bridges will only make the space I fly safer. Which sucks for me, because I play Eve for PVP, not ratting. Some small alliance isn't going to be able to move in near the current alliances with or without bridges. They'd still get stomped on - if for no other reason than there wasn't much else to shoot.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:29:00 - [160]
 

When I first heard that the CSM was discussing this I thought it was a horrible idea and that they are idiots for even bringing it up. Now that I have thought it over for a few days I think it might not necessarily be a bad thing so long as the correct provisions are set in place. I have never really understood jump bridges anyway. They are basically player made stargates but don't look or act like a stargate...just function as one. They don't really make much sense once I got to thinking about it. Logistically they are a necessity at the moment. They provide a "safer" and shorter means of transport for those in deep nullsec to get to Empire in a reasonable amount of time. I can't imagine having to go back to the old method...but if something else is put in place to make the transition easier then so be it.

An idea...the Sansha have the ability to create artificial wormholes and travel great distances with them...why can't we steal that tech and retrofit it to be used by the pod pilots? I don't believe something as powerful as this should be allowed to be used on any ship...but perhaps by a station module? Or maybe a special kind of gate that has to be anchored around a planet like a station?

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:52:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
An idea...the Sansha have the ability to create artificial wormholes and travel great distances with them...why can't we steal that tech and retrofit it to be used by the pod pilots?


Cynos?

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:59:00 - [162]
 

My understanding was that the Sansha wormholes cover a much greater distance and stay open almost indefinately until they are destroyed. An extremely expensive and destroyable wormhole generator would be cool. I know JB's can be destroyed but they are tied to a POS typically and are easily defended. Not to mention too easy to install in a system. A station that can make a wormhole capable of jumping 10 systems would be extremely expensive to build...take a long time to build and be destroyed easier. They wouldnt be in every system like the current JB system...there would be maybe 3 per region and just like the current JB system can only go to a specific point on the other end. This would require two of these to be built to make the connection and both would have to be protected to keep enemies from blowing em up. Make another limitation of only allowing 1 within a 5 system range of each other that way you cant have them all over the freaking place.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:39:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
...An idea...the Sansha have ...

Could actually be a very interesting thing to explore.

Replacing current bridges with bi-directional wormholes could not only alleviate all the issues that a JB removal might cause but introduce some new griefing aspects.

Two types would be required;
- One short lived but mass restricted worm for the impromptu logistics run. Enough for a few freighters (or mass equivalent gang) or so.
- One longer lived mass unlimited worm for mass movements, but chaining them everywhere could potentially open up the heartland to enemies (bi-directional remember Twisted Evil).
- Both types are tethered to cyno field at end point.

If the generation of them is to be tied to a structure I'd suggest using outposts as it limits availability and encourages erecting stations if only to ease access to the ass-end of ones turf.

Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:59:00 - [164]
 

remove JB? really, CSM? you all suck if you unanimously agreed on that.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:21:00 - [165]
 

Edited by: Ephemeron on 17/01/2011 19:32:51
Quote:
This. Without jump bridges, 0.0 would become even more carebear land. No one would travel anywhere, so null space would be even safer just because of the fact that it is huge and mostly empty.
I am old enough to remember 0.0 before jump bridges, and I can assure you that it was very lively. There was lots of traffic - MORE than there is now. Even tho there was less people per system, there was a lot of small scale activity

If anything, 0.0 has become MORE carebear now that it has ever been.
Jump bridges, super safe logistics - these things are there to make carebearing easy. That was the whole purpose behind the original idea - make 0.0 safe.

Removing jump bridges would be a move toward hardcore PvP, away from carebearism - by definition. Of course, I can understand that there are a lot of 0.0 residents who got fat slow and lazy and would cry if they had to return to tougher life. Well, sometimes a little exercise is good for you. You'll be glad for it in the long run

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:43:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Falin Whalen
CCP Greyscale warns,... “everything will go to sh!t.”


Yes Finally fully support the removal of jump bridge networks.

POS cyno beacons in an upgraded systems can stay.


Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:51:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
Edited by: Ephemeron on 17/01/2011 19:32:51
Quote:
This. Without jump bridges, 0.0 would become even more carebear land. No one would travel anywhere, so null space would be even safer just because of the fact that it is huge and mostly empty.
I am old enough to remember 0.0 before jump bridges, and I can assure you that it was very lively. There was lots of traffic - MORE than there is now. Even tho there was less people per system, there was a lot of small scale activity

If anything, 0.0 has become MORE carebear now that it has ever been.
Jump bridges, super safe logistics - these things are there to make carebearing easy. That was the whole purpose behind the original idea - make 0.0 safe.

Removing jump bridges would be a move toward hardcore PvP, away from carebearism - by definition. Of course, I can understand that there are a lot of 0.0 residents who got fat slow and lazy and would cry if they had to return to tougher life. Well, sometimes a little exercise is good for you. You'll be glad for it in the long run


You sir nailed it right on the money. People got lazy.

Niccolo Paganini
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:03:00 - [168]
 

Removing jump bridges will prevent smaller corps from holding territory.

It therefore benefits larger corps/alliances with more mature infrastructure/logistical capabilities.

Perhaps a limitation of the capability of jump bridges would solve any problems they create, rather than just removing them.

Levarr Burton
B0rthole
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:08:00 - [169]
 

Removing jump bridges would actually just exacerbate the stagnant state of much of Sovereign 0.0.
Here's my take on what would actually happen if CCP removed jump bridges:

1) The Sovereign Nulsec economies would go ****-up. These economies depend on both imported minerals, but also tech 2 blueprint copies (for those of us without BPOs), or the datacores required to invent t2 blueprints, those datacores only being seeded (through research agents) in NPC space.

2) The price of minerals in Sovereign Nulsec would skyrocket. Increased difficulty importing high-compression goods would vastly restrict the mineral supply, unless a major redistribution of resource potential was undertaken as well.

3) The price of ships, ammunition and fittings in Sovereign Nulsec would skyrocket. Expect to see prices 50-100% higher than non-hub empire as standard on most items, thanks to #2. Despite this price increase, the profit:effort ratio of production in Sovereign Nulsec would likely decrease, discouraging more people from entering the marketplace.

4) Small-scale PVP would be reduced. Due to increased costs, pilots will have to spend more time earning isk than looking for fights. (time:fun ratio takes a beating here). Pilots in their home regions would also no longer be able to use jump bridges to reach an advantageous point (skipping part of a pipe to get ahead of a gang), making it much easier for fights to be avoided, simply have ships that align faster.

5) Large-scale PVP would shrivel. Between the increased ship costs and the logistical difficulty of shifting large numbers of pilots, only brushfires on the borders of alliance space would be fought, not large-scale invasions. No more having two massive fleets crash into each other, disengage and then wheel about to clash in another part of a region an hour later. Fewer blockbuster, region-defining battles.

6) Power blocks will become more entrenched, not less. The increased cost of conflict will only encourage alliances to be on good behaviour with their immediate neighbours, to protect their (now even more important) isk-making apparatus. Furthermore, and more relevant, is that the current sovereignty mechanics require massive fleets. Hindering the mobility of said fleets would make it near impossible to flip sovereignty in a system, unless your enemy alliance didn't log in for a week or two.

7) Many of the people who reside in Sovereign Nulsec will lose their passion for the game. For these people, the joy of the game isn't in the awful game mechanics, or the sub-par performance of the client, or grinding away enough missions to get a shiny implant from an LP store. For these people, the fun of the game is conflict on a massive scale. The ability to craft a narrative through player actions, and to see that narrative play out through hundreds or thousands of actors. Having a shrewd political decision switch the side of hundreds of pilots, or having a Titan-bridge welp leave an entire fleet hideously out of position. For tens of thousands of EVE players, THAT is the game. Massive conflict. Without the ability to project power on a grandiose scale, you end up with a handful of small, petty wars with no grand goals, no grand scale, and most importantly, with no grand story.

Finally, EVE is already a very time consuming game. The current state of Nulsec logistics, while not perfect, allows the people who enjoy logistics to do what they love, while also allowing the people who don't want to throw away their spare time dragging items around in a computer world to get on with their part of the game.

It seems, from reading this thread, that most of the people supporting the potential removal of jump bridges have little, if any, experience doing large-scale nulsec logistics.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:10:00 - [170]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 17/01/2011 20:11:21
Originally by: Pod Amarr
Originally by: Ephemeron
I am old enough to remember 0.0 before jump bridges, and I can assure you that it was very lively. There was lots of traffic - MORE than there is now. Even tho there was less people per system, there was a lot of small scale activity

If anything, 0.0 has become MORE carebear now that it has ever been.
Jump bridges, super safe logistics - these things are there to make carebearing easy. That was the whole purpose behind the original idea - make 0.0 safe.

Removing jump bridges would be a move toward hardcore PvP, away from carebearism - by definition. Of course, I can understand that there are a lot of 0.0 residents who got fat slow and lazy and would cry if they had to return to tougher life. Well, sometimes a little exercise is good for you. You'll be glad for it in the long run


You sir nailed it right on the money. People got lazy.


Lazy? This is a video game, it is supposed to be fun, not mind-numbing work (which is what jumping 20-30 jumps really is). I prefer to be paid to do mind-numbing work and would rather not have to pay to do it.

Romulus Silvia
Amarr
Igneus Auctorita
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:28:00 - [171]
 

its funny that the nc complain about this. i mean, their jumpbridge network is only 9 regions small.

Beth McGee
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:31:00 - [172]
 

hey look, a thread with a bunch of people that don't know what they're talking about.

start shooting blues.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:39:00 - [173]
 

I'd support crippling bridges so only a fixed amount of traffic can use them over a given period of time. This opens up all sorts of possibilities:
  • Limit mass throughput per hour
  • Limit jumps per hour
  • Restrict to particular classes of ship
  • Add spinup/cooldown times
  • Random failures, with increasing frequency and severity relative to the number of jumps in the last hour...
  • ...including misdirection to neighbouring solar systems...
  • ...constellations...
  • ...regions...
  • ...or even wormholes, if you're really unlucky
  • Make them much easier to incapacitate, so small gangs can disable them
  • Make them cheaper, and allow parallel routes, if the owners really want to build a lot of infrastructure targets

The only factor in balancing their use at present is a fuel cost, and balancing things by cost alone has never worked out very well.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:58:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Romulus Silvia
its funny that the nc complain about this. i mean, their jumpbridge network is only 9 regions small.


I've been in a number of different alliances: most have been at odds with the NC. I am definitely not a spokesperson for the NC. Honestly, I think the NC is rather bloated. However, if you want to fix that, enemies have to be able to strike deep inside the NC. You aren't going to convince the NC to turn on each other by getting rid of their ability to project force. The NC has way too many carebears.

PVP is only done to protect the space the NC has. The NC would absolutely love no bridges as they would see an enemy fleet coming for the hour or more it took for it to actually get somewhere (don't forget, spies everywhere) and be sitting there waiting for them (much like they already do). The bridges are the only way to create an element of surprise (in that once the attacking fleet is formed it can relatively quickly move to attack anywhere).

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.17 21:06:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Joss56
This Topic and CSM repport over 8 pages of blah blah about jump bridges, i read them all and this question comes up in mi mind right now:

Is the removal of jump bridges changing anything about risk vs reward making carebears or new players and old 0.0 digs come in to low/null? - can't see how after all these posts.

Is there any comment from CCP crowd that makes us think that changes will be made in this or that direction and talking about nerfs/boosts blah blah blah: no

I can't see how how these sumits are an answer to all players expectations, i see them more like one way to keep people busy in the forum with speculations while they are doing the oposite.

Did you read something from them sayin "well our position about this issue or opinion is blah blah blah", no you can't, just dipplomatic words to make more noise with forum threads Laughing


In theory the change (removed jump bridges, nerf to all the jump capable ships, maybe even a nerf to freighters) should "encourage" 0.0 alliance not only to break up but to create an industrial wing in 0.0 so that they could build all the needed stuff there.

The "dream" is to see real players mining in 0.0 to support the industrial activities of the alliance instead of bringing compressed minerals from high sec, players building in 0.0 the stuff they need and so on.

Naturally some "small" detail is missing, for example how people will "produce" meta items that aren't dropped by the local rats, how people should go around building T2 in 0.0 (bring the datacores from empire space? Buy the available T2 BPO? Buy in Jita the T2 components you can't manifacture locally because you don't control the right moons) and how they should go around selling the moon goo products they have in excess.

A possible "counter move" by large NAP trains would be to select some 0.0 station as common trading hubs where they will exchange the different products.

In that scenario the group of blue alliances will become even more tightly knitted together instead of fracturing as they will have an interest in keeping the multi alliance trading hubs operative and well protected at the center of the blue territory.




Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.17 21:12:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
A possible "counter move" by large NAP trains would be to select some 0.0 station as common trading hubs where they will exchange the different products.

In that scenario the group of blue alliances will become even more tightly knitted together instead of fracturing as they will have an interest in keeping the multi alliance trading hubs operative and well protected at the center of the blue territory.


That doesn't already happen to a certain extent?

I can name 2 NC hubs off the top of my head. I was at one yesterday picking up a couple skillbooks that (prior to being in the NC) I would've never expected to be able to buy in null sec.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:15:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: Marlona Sky on 17/01/2011 22:16:57
Originally by: Niccolo Paganini
Removing jump bridges will prevent smaller corps from holding territory.


This statement is so ****ing stupid.

6000+ people rapidly descending upon a small alliance of 100 who just setup shop 4 regions away and stamping them out of existence is what is keeping small corps/alliance from holding territory. Not because they couldn't setup a jump bridge.

Lets see this from a small entities perspective:

Option #1) If left along long enough to gain the sov level, we can put up a jump bridge to ease our logistics. At the same time because of jump bridges, a power block of possible 22k+ can decent upon our medium tower and blow it into atoms in a matter of a couple minutes, whenever the mood strikes them.

Option #2) Without a jump bridge, our logistics will be much more difficult. We will have to rely on jump freighters, blockade runners with covert ops cloak, black ops covert jump bridge to get the blockade runners around gate camps, possible shortcuts thru wormhole space, upgrading a system with the mining upgrade so we can get all the ore we need to build ships, reprocess the modules from ratting/plexing/anomolies to get minerals we can't mine, etc. But with jump bridges gone, we don't have to worry about a large power block getting here in 5 minutes just to vaporize our POS and operation for the lulz because we are more than 10 minutes away for their entire coalition to form up and take the gates here. Any immediate threats will be of a much, much smaller force, something we could possibly handle instead of 1000+ vs. 100 of us.

Now what in the **** option do you think they would rather have? Which one would give them a better chance in 0.0 without being part of a power block? And yes, if your a renter, your part of the power block, your just paying for friends.

And again, there is a lot of other things that can be adjusted to improve mining, POS work, moon goo, etc. Now is the time to discuss those instead of just being super focused on this one item. If we don't, then 6 months will go by and because nothing else was hammered out, CCP just might do the easy right click and delete without doing anything you all so fear.

It's time for everyone to wake up, smell the cake and get back in shape and stop being lazy. You don't want to be bored to tears doing the boring **** you would need to do without jump bridges, well, what aspects about said boring **** could be changed to make it a lot more interesting.

No I'm not about to mine ****ing ice or whatever rock is FOTM no matter how exciting it is with it dripping **** in 3D with endless cake being feed to me. I would rather be blowing up someones ship. But in if something can be done to make it more lively then I'm all for putting whatever :effort: it takes to get it there for my fellow EVE pilot.

So, forget about the jump bridges, pretend they will be gone no matter what, what ideas no matter how small would you suggest to keep the game fun instead of sucks balls... Go!:

Suggestions Below This Line
8===============================================================D

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:16:00 - [178]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 17/01/2011 22:21:55
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Venkul Mul
A possible "counter move" by large NAP trains would be to select some 0.0 station as common trading hubs where they will exchange the different products.

In that scenario the group of blue alliances will become even more tightly knitted together instead of fracturing as they will have an interest in keeping the multi alliance trading hubs operative and well protected at the center of the blue territory.


That doesn't already happen to a certain extent?

I can name 2 NC hubs off the top of my head. I was at one yesterday picking up a couple skillbooks that (prior to being in the NC) I would've never expected to be able to buy in null sec.



I have been out of 0.0 for a long time, but I am not too surprised.

For me it is a sign of good empire building, for most PvPers probably it is a sign of things becoming soft.

Originally by: Marlona Sky
[
No I'm not about to mine ****ing ice or whatever rock is FOTM no matter how exciting it is with it dripping **** in 3D with endless cake being feed to me. I would rather be blowing up someones ship. But in if something can be done to make it more lively then I'm all for putting whatever :effort: it takes to get it there for my fellow EVE pilot.



And who will mine the minerals for your ships?

In your nice dream universe have you ever thought about the little problem that you will have to spend time protecting the miners after the ease of transportation from empire has been removed?

Or you think you will be only the guy that will have the fun to kill the miners, never the one that will have hours of guard duty defending them?




Niccolo Paganini
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:28:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 17/01/2011 22:16:57
Originally by: Niccolo Paganini
Removing jump bridges will prevent smaller corps from holding territory.


This statement is so ****ing stupid.

6000+ people rapidly descending upon a small alliance of 100 who just setup shop 4 regions away and stamping them out of existence is what is keeping small corps/alliance from holding territory. Not because they couldn't setup a jump bridge.

Lets see this from a small entities perspective:

Option #1) If left along long enough to gain the sov level, we can put up a jump bridge to ease our logistics. At the same time because of jump bridges, a power block of possible 22k+ can decent upon our medium tower and blow it into atoms in a matter of a couple minutes, whenever the mood strikes them.

Option #2) Without a jump bridge, our logistics will be much more difficult. We will have to rely on jump freighters, blockade runners with covert ops cloak, black ops covert jump bridge to get the blockade runners around gate camps, possible shortcuts thru wormhole space, upgrading a system with the mining upgrade so we can get all the ore we need to build ships, reprocess the modules from ratting/plexing/anomolies to get minerals we can't mine, etc. But with jump bridges gone, we don't have to worry about a large power block getting here in 5 minutes just to vaporize our POS and operation for the lulz because we are more than 10 minutes away for their entire coalition to form up and take the gates here. Any immediate threats will be of a much, much smaller force, something we could possibly handle instead of 1000+ vs. 100 of us.

Now what in the **** option do you think they would rather have? Which one would give them a better chance in 0.0 without being part of a power block? And yes, if your a renter, your part of the power block, your just paying for friends.

And again, there is a lot of other things that can be adjusted to improve mining, POS work, moon goo, etc. Now is the time to discuss those instead of just being super focused on this one item. If we don't, then 6 months will go by and because nothing else was hammered out, CCP just might do the easy right click and delete without doing anything you all so fear.

It's time for everyone to wake up, smell the cake and get back in shape and stop being lazy. You don't want to be bored to tears doing the boring **** you would need to do without jump bridges, well, what aspects about said boring **** could be changed to make it a lot more interesting.

No I'm not about to mine ****ing ice or whatever rock is FOTM no matter how exciting it is with it dripping **** in 3D with endless cake being feed to me. I would rather be blowing up someones ship. But in if something can be done to make it more lively then I'm all for putting whatever :effort: it takes to get it there for my fellow EVE pilot.

So, forget about the jump bridges, pretend they will be gone no matter what, what ideas no matter how small would you suggest to keep the game fun instead of sucks balls... Go!:

Suggestions Below This Line
8=D



Removing jump bridges will favour corps with more mature logistical capability.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.17 22:29:00 - [180]
 

Quote:
And who will mine the minerals for your ships?

In your nice dream universe have you ever thought about the little problem that you will have to spend time protecting the miners after the ease of transportation from empire has been removed?

Or you think you will be only the guy that will have the fun to kill the miners, never the one that will have hours of guard duty defending them?
Most of the minerals come from high sec empire. Half from botters, half from countless level 3/4 mission runners who refine their loot.

Most 0.0 alliances just buy minerals in empire and bridge them to their little outposts, why bother mining in 0.0?


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