open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked This Thread Is Now About EFT Noobness
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.01.14 23:33:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 16/01/2011 14:09:05

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 14/01/2011 23:33:32

I just sunk my unallocated skill points into the Typhoon... only to find out that the EFT numbers Do Not At All Reflect the reality of this ship in terms of actual EHP in game.




I tested and compared Hurricane, Armageddon, Dominix and a few others VS EFT numbers. Both with and without gang link bonuses. There were minor discrepancies that I can accept in terms of resists and overall EHP, but the Typhoon appears to be the only ship that is GROSSLY misrepresented in EFT.


It appears to be lacking somewhere around 26K EHP



1.) Is this fact common knowledge?
2.) Has anyone encountered this issue before with other ships?
3.) Is it true? Or is this a display bug in game? (Do Typhoons really have lower EHP then all other BS?)


I am a bit perplexed atm, so I am posted here in order to get some feedback on the subject. I'd just like to say WTF EFT people? Maybe you need to take a look at this and fix it like CCP needs to fix the "Hail" description Shocked






/Sad panda wants his unallocated SP back Sad

Varesk
Gallente
Maelstrom Crew
Posted - 2011.01.14 23:34:00 - [2]
 

pics or it didnt happen.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.01.14 23:34:00 - [3]
 

In game "EHP" is measured against lowest resist for each layer. EFT is measured against uniform for all layers.

-Liang

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.01.14 23:38:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
In game "EHP" is measured against lowest resist for each layer. EFT is measured against uniform for all layers.

-Liang



Does this mean that the actual observable effect in game will not reflect the lesser (in game) EHP of this ship?

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.01.14 23:39:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Does this mean that the actual observable effect in game will not reflect the lesser (in game) EHP of this ship?


As a rule, I'd say that EFT is closer to correct.

-Liang

Goose99
Posted - 2011.01.14 23:41:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Originally by: Liang Nuren
In game "EHP" is measured against lowest resist for each layer. EFT is measured against uniform for all layers.

-Liang



Does this mean that the actual observable effect in game will not reflect the lesser (in game) EHP of this ship?


Doesn't that depend on the ammo they use? I guess it's "worst luck" vs "average luck."Laughing

Rian O'Shea
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.14 23:42:00 - [7]
 

EFT simply takes the average of all 4 resists (unless told otherwise) and uses that number combined with HP to get an EHP number, ingame picks the LOWEST resist of the 4 and uses this to calc EHP. Always been that way, doesn't really change anything (as long as you know the how and why).

All is fine, move along sir :)


Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.01.14 23:46:00 - [8]
 

Very Happy

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.01.15 00:17:00 - [9]
 

Yeah if somehow you end up against a player who fits ammo types specifically against your shields, then swaps to best for armour... well then in game is most accurate.


However I think its crap and just base off EFT.

Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.15 01:15:00 - [10]
 

This goes out to all the 3x trimark or extender rigs *****s. Just quickly create pure damage profiles for each type, then see what your buffer is for all 4 and if you want to trade even more ehp under some resists for perhaps a lower overall ehp but a more even and reliable tank. Razz

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.01.15 01:56:00 - [11]
 

EFT doesn't give you an exact picture of your ships abilities ingame?! Shocked


THIS MUST BE DEALT WITH.

Lucky Lynn
Posted - 2011.01.15 02:26:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian





...the Typhoon appears to be the only ship that is GROSSLY misrepresented in EFTMisunderstood, Underestimated.

.

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.01.15 02:55:00 - [13]
 

Did you remember to turn your Damage Control on?

Karann
Minmatar
Locus Evolved
Posted - 2011.01.15 03:05:00 - [14]
 

if you dont like EFT or the results it gives dont use it, simples

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.01.15 04:25:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 15/01/2011 04:29:34
Originally by: Liang Nuren
In game "EHP" is measured against lowest resist for each layer. EFT is measured against uniform for all layers.

Small clarifications.

The ingame screen picks the lowest resist separately for each of the 3 layers, as if somebody was switching damage type each time one of the layers gets depleted, which always results in a noticeably lower EHP value compared to just about any actual combat situation. Just how much lower, well, apparently for your fits, much lower.

EFT *by default* uses 25% of each damage type against all layers (shield, armor, hull).
You can configure it for any different incoming damage percentages (like, say, 67%, 20%, 13%, 0%), but you can't set a different damage profile for each individual layer.
Then again, why should you - who the heck changes damage types mid-combat ? NPCs never change their damage profile, and players sure as hell don't usually swap out ammo just because they pierced one layer.

Like Liang said a bit later, EFT is usually closer to the truth.
It should be actually nearly identical to the truth if you configure the incoming damage profile correctly.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.01.15 05:02:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Did you remember to turn your Damage Control on?


that is also a good point, as if you are docked in station it won't give any benefit as far as the fitting window is concerned.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.01.15 05:32:00 - [17]
 

Ok, as now the mass panic has been called off can we talk about waffles please?
I didn't get mine with honey. Can someone help please?

Nanferr
Posted - 2011.01.15 06:56:00 - [18]
 

Typhoon sux.

Ill fly Geddon any friggin day.

It will never ever do its full damage with its torps. Its effective range is basically 13km, cuz anything that it cant web, will never ever be hit.

And to make it worst it gets most of its dps from its drones, making it immobile with sentries, or just simply blows with ogre's.

Please stick to tested-and-true geddon. seriously.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.15 08:44:00 - [19]
 

Simply spend 15 minutes inputting the damage percentages from various ammo and you won't have this problem again.

Then you just right-click on the defence section and select the damage type you want - eg null, void, barrage, hail, EM, Fusion, scorch, whatever.

Its worth doing IMHO.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.01.15 09:51:00 - [20]
 

I'm willing the bet that what you are seeing is just the pure armor/shield hp and not the overall ehp of the ship.

I won't speculate much though until I see a fit. Confused

Pharago
Gallente
Nughat Corp
Posted - 2011.01.16 03:17:00 - [21]
 

You have to consider that the thyphoon is also one of the fastest t1 battleship hulls of EVE, and that you are suposed to use it mostly speed-tanked, you can get a glimpse of that on EFT too by trying different fits against different ships as EFT will make the calculations of orbiting speed, weapon tracking etc, it's a good way of knowing which one is the optimal orbiting range of your setup to maximize dps output and minimize dps 'intake'.

In short, setups built on the fitting screen can give you an overall idea of the kind of ship you are making but they assume your ship will be a sitting duck.

Ziaxi
Posted - 2011.01.16 09:16:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: ShahFluffers
I'm willing the bet that what you are seeing is just the pure armor/shield hp and not the overall ehp of the ship.
no Laughing
Just read the FAQ, folks. It's not hard...

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.01.16 14:08:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 16/01/2011 14:13:04

Originally by: Tres Farmer
Ok, as now the mass panic has been called off can we talk about waffles please?
I didn't get mine with honey. Can someone help please?


Mmm... Waffles.


Also, the Broadcast of my EFT noobness all over the Forums has scored me some excellent EFT instruction in game. Was there ever an instruction PDF made or something to that effect? I never bothered to take a good look at what additional elements might be present outside of fit, speed, DPS and cap stability.


And Hey Look!! A FaQ!!



"Q: What is Effective hitpoints and why this value differs from effective hp shown in ingame fitting screen?
A: Effective hitpoints is an amount of damage required to break through given shield, armor and structure buffers with their respecive resistances. By default EFT uses average resistance while ingame effective hps calculated using lowest resistance.
"

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.16 14:20:00 - [24]
 

Moved from General Discussion to Ships & Modules.

Malema
Posted - 2011.01.16 15:30:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Nanferr
Typhoon sux.

Ill fly Geddon any friggin day.

It will never ever do its full damage with its torps. Its effective range is basically 13km, cuz anything that it cant web, will never ever be hit.

And to make it worst it gets most of its dps from its drones, making it immobile with sentries, or just simply blows with ogre's.

Please stick to tested-and-true geddon. seriously.


1)Geddon is a good ship , I will give you that.

2)Most typhoons are Cruise + AC/Arties . No Torps in general

3)Nope. I don't have any fit where my Ogres or Gardes do more DPS that my cruise + ac combo.Also 5X Heavy or 5XSentries are incredibly useful . Not sure why you're hating on the Typhoon for that.

In fact the fit I use for Recon4-1 where I have to drop my 2X Cal Navy BCS's for tank mods , the highs outscore my Ogres by over 100 DPS.

fLitSer
NEOPHYTE.
EXTERMINATUM
Posted - 2011.01.16 15:55:00 - [26]
 

Ive always found that EFT has never been accurate with real in game EHP with most of the ships ive fitted in eft/in-game.

Dunno whether its because ive not updated the program or what???

sasabor
Posted - 2011.01.16 16:30:00 - [27]
 

GEEZ you EFT warriors do make me laugh each time, you really expect tha that 1 % extra resist or those extra 5 DPS will turn your ship into the almighty pwning machine, it doesn't you will die just as fast when you fall victim to a 10 men gang or get blobbed or even fail to indentify the triggers in a mission if you are into pve

Eve is more fun without having a spreadsheet open and a stopwatch next to you

Use EFT as a guide line not as a dogma

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.01.16 17:27:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 16/01/2011 17:28:51

Originally by: sasabor
GEEZ you EFT warriors do make me laugh each time, you really expect tha that 1 % extra resist or those extra 5 DPS will turn your ship into the almighty pwning machine, it doesn't you will die just as fast when you fall victim to a 10 men gang or get blobbed or even fail to indentify the triggers in a mission if you are into pve

Eve is more fun without having a spreadsheet open and a stopwatch next to you

Use EFT as a guide line not as a dogma


This post is entirely relevant to this thread...


Because someone actually said this in it? ughNeutral


Oh wait, this is just a 0-reading-comprehension-twitch-response to someone mentioning EFT! Very Happy Moving on now...

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2011.01.16 18:09:00 - [29]
 

Simple question about EFT, sometimes ago a friend shown me how to open an window since EFT listing few fits made by players regarding the ship you are fitting with this tool.

Either this feature is not able anymore or I don't remeber how to bring it back.

Some help would be apreciated, thank you.Embarassed

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.01.16 18:46:00 - [30]
 

Are you talking about fits exported from your EVE Client into your EFT?


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only