open All Channels
seplocked Missions & Complexes
blankseplocked Proposal: Rename the L4 mission "Duo of Death"
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2005.01.24 10:49:00 - [31]
 

I reject all deadspace missions simply because they:

1. Take too long for little lp reward
2. See 1.
3. See 2.

I'm only in the agent business for the lp's - I want a Caldari Navy Raven.

Maybe if the deadspace missions lp reward ratio is fixed I will consider it but, until then, I'll be glad to avoid the slow unrewarding beasts.

Daolin
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.01.24 11:04:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: capt
I guess I didn't express myself clearly, my setup includes afterburner (lif) and overdirve (beta hull mod..) but then still, I think it could be better....As you are able to do 2 or even 3 average non-deadspace missions (the longer ones not included" in the time it takes you to do 1 deadspace mission.



Yeah, okay, but what if the loot in deadspace was better, and the LP rewards would correspond to the average time needed to complete the mission (like they do with normal kill missions)?

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2005.01.24 13:12:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 24/01/2005 13:12:53
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 23/01/2005 23:15:06
Zrakor, while I've got your ear, why not just restore missions to the old format... I don't think I'm alone in saying that deadspace missions are just not as fun as normal space missions. I know that once development starts heading in a new direction it's hard to stop it, but I feel deadspace missions kinda blow.

Barring that, I guess I could rattle off a few things that annoy me about deadspace and make me turn the missions down with nearly religious fervor. Maybe if deadspace is to stay, these could be looked at:

- The first ship to warp to an acceleration gate will arrive 15km away from it. That ship's gangmate will arrive directly on top of it. If two people are trying to do a mission, that second ship will crash into the first and bounce it a few thousand km away. My recommendation would be to extend the activation radius of acceleration gates to 15km, so that the first ship arriving can activate it right off the bat. Or better yet, screw with ship collision grids so they don't function like little acceleration gates for each other, and simply come to a dead stop if they collide.

- Distances, it's been mentioned already, but with MWD disabled (for no reason that I can understand) a couple things happen:

a.) ships which depend on sniping are rendered obsolete, and pacing the insanely fast tackler rats is impossible. When's the last time you heard of anyone doing missions in a Howitzer Tempest? Aside from the freaks who run missions in interceptors to show off, it's Apoc, Raven or bust - because they can engage rats at medium range, and tank damage.

b.) missions are 15% action and 85% locomotion. Boring. Looting is just weird, since after you complete a deadspace mission, the cans remain but the scenery disappears. Where did it go?

c.) rats that prefer to kite you can become infuriating as they coast out of your now mid-ranged (because that's all that works) battleship's reach.

It'd be nice if MWD was re-enabled. I can't imagine it interfering with deadspace missions, it just lets you use more kinds of ships.

- The scenery is there but it doesn't do anything good, for the most part there's no reason to blow up these place markers. All they do (the goddamn clouds especially) is lag me up. Design is just incoherent, most DS missions have a rock formation and some structures thrown about randomly.

These are just my opinions, don't bite my head off...


I can remember visiting POI locations in Eve where there were actual buildings on the asteroids. It'd be a lot more satisfying if the DS structures were located on the structures themselves instead of spaced dozens of kilometres apart.

What kind of idiotic NPC Oberkommando places command strutures and barracks far apart and completely seperated by an asteroid formation?

Helen Tiger
The White Wing Cartel
Posted - 2005.01.24 15:42:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Helen Tiger on 24/01/2005 15:45:14
Daolin : "What if's" are like saying "that can be easily fixed". Yeah, if someone actually decides to do so.

The fact is, right now, Dead Space missions are totally unappealing to just about every player, because the alternative (normal space missions) looks a lot better.

Suppose you get two job offers in real life : 12 hours a day for 10 dollars, and 3 hours a day for 100 dollars, all things being otherwise equal. The choice is easy. In fact, there is NO choice.

To make dead-space missions as appealing as normal space missions would require a lot of tweaking. Maybe even more than tweaking.

By the way, Zrakor didn't say that ALL missions would be deadspace, but that all missions would use the same mechanisms. That's programmer talk for stuff you don't see, like :

"Linux and Windows are both programmed in C++ for intel processors". That doesn't mean Windows and Linux are the same thing.

Zrakor, please correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that the players will still have both normal and dead-space missions, and that what you mentionned was just about cleaning up the code.

Until deadspace missions change (assuming they ever do), I'll keep refusing them. They are simply not my idea of a fun time. And from corp / alliance chat I figure MOST players think that way. Daolin, this means the players that DON'T come whining on the forums.

Helen

Daolin
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.01.24 21:22:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Helen Tiger
Daolin : "What if's" are like saying "that can be easily fixed". Yeah, if someone actually decides to do so.

If you think that CCP isn't interested in fixing bugs, or that they are not aware of the issues that we currently have with deadspace missions, you should probably cancel your account right now. Of course they can't just wave a magic wand at the code and the bugs go *poof*. Call me an optimist if you want, but I do believe that the deadspace issues will be fixed in due time Cool

Originally by: Helen Tiger
Suppose you get two job offers in real life : 12 hours a day for 10 dollars, and 3 hours a day for 100 dollars, all things being otherwise equal. The choice is easy. In fact, there is NO choice.

So everyone should stop doing missions and go mine Zyd and Mega? Rolling Eyes

Quote:
By the way, Zrakor didn't say that ALL missions would be deadspace, but that all missions would use the same mechanisms. That's programmer talk for stuff you don't see, like :

"Linux and Windows are both programmed in C++ for intel processors". That doesn't mean Windows and Linux are the same thing.


Don't lecture me. I never wrote that all missions would or should be deadspace. I do read dev posts, apparently more than you, because you seem to have missed the part where Zrakor said that they wouldn't scrap deadspace missions just because there are some minor issues with them.

I'm not saying that deadspace missions are so much better than normal missions, just that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with deadspace, and that the deadspace idea shouldn't be given up because of some minor issues. Quite the opposite, deadspace already has some major advantages over regular kill missions:
- You have your mission area for yourself. No loot thieves, no gankers, no mission spawns of other players disturbing your mission.
- Deadspace allows for more complex and interesting mission types than just "go there, kill them all, bring back loot". You can have stationary sentries, structures to destroy, acceleration gates that only activate under certain circumstances ... there's a lot of potential that hasn't been fully realized by the content writers yet.

Quote:
Until deadspace missions change (assuming they ever do), I'll keep refusing them. They are simply not my idea of a fun time. And from corp / alliance chat I figure MOST players think that way. Daolin, this means the players that DON'T come whining on the forums.


Gee, sometimes when reading the forums I think that I must be some kind of mutant freak - the only person in the world who actually enjoys the game I am paying for Wink

Damajink
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.01.24 22:10:00 - [36]
 

The L3 Amarr Navy 'Duo of Death' puts you up against 2 (yes, TWO!!) 35k rats.

Confused

Calypse
Posted - 2005.01.27 00:01:00 - [37]
 

At least they got the "duo" part right Very Happy

Daolin : my entire post wasn't aimed at you, sorry if it felt that way. Only the paragraphs where I actually named you were for you.

Originally by: Daolin
If you think that CCP isn't interested in fixing bugs...


I'm sure they are, any programmer worth the title is interested in fixing bugs. The problem is elsewhere : sometimes, people don't agree about what's a bug and what's not. Otherwise, MS Windows would be a flawless OS by now.

And of course, even IF deadspace issues are considered bugs that need to be corrected, there's also the problem of priorities. If we don't bug CCP (no pun intended) about what we don't like, it's unlikely they'll do anything about it.

Originally by: Daolin
So everyone should stop doing missions and go mine Zyd and Mega? Rolling Eyes


If it was just about the money ? Maybe. But I do up to 50 million isk a day with level 4 missions, in the safe confines of Empire space, so in my case mining is quite uninteresting.

Besides, even if mining is/was the most effective way to get isk, you have to consider the fun factor : this IS a game, after all. I even enjoy frigate combats, and yet they don't earn me anything.

Originally by: Daolin
Don't lecture me. I never wrote that all missions would or should be deadspace. I do read dev posts, apparently more than you, because you seem to have missed the part where Zrakor said that they wouldn't scrap deadspace missions just because there are some minor issues with them.


I wasn't lecturing you (specifically), it would seem my F.O.F. Heavy Lecture Missile hit you by mistake Wink

Originally by: Daolin
deadspace already has some major advantages over regular kill missions:
- You have your mission area for yourself. No loot thieves, no gankers, no mission spawns of other players disturbing your mission.
- Deadspace allows for more complex and interesting mission types than just "go there, kill them all, bring back loot". You can have stationary sentries, structures to destroy, acceleration gates that only activate under certain circumstances ... there's a lot of potential that hasn't been fully realized by the content writers yet.


I agree that Deadspace has a lot of potential, but I only see this potential be fully realised in the complexes.

I may be an exception but I never had ANY of the problems you listed in the many missions I've done. No loot thieves, even near gates, no spawns from someone else's missions, no gankers (empire space effect ?)

When it comes to missions, Deadspace are still the same "kill rats / bring back items / get reward" stuff as normal space missions. That you also have turrets and structures doesn't change anything, I speak from experience.

And gates in deadspace have simply replaced bookmarks in normal space missions. It's still "go there, then here, then here, and kill everyone along the way".

You're right, maybe this needs works from the contents writers, but let's be honest, there isn't much that can be done to make missions different and still keep them doable within a normal time-frame. The moment you start designing better missions which require teams that have to stick together for hours, you know that few players will actually get around doing some, and they won't do many. I've experienced that in AO... spend 1 hour gathering the perfect team, get in the dungeon, kill stuff for 2 hours non-stop, and by the time you get to the boss, half the team has logged, leaving too little firepower to actually complete the mission and get the rewards.

And if you stick to missions that take a single player and last less than an hour or two, I think CCP has created enough variety here to keep us all fairly happy. At least I'm not complaining about diversity, even though I've done each mission type at least a dozen times.

Bottom line is, the forum is here so people can whine. If CCP didn't like us whining, there'd be no forum. Maybe if people share my point of view (and some do, as we see in this thread) there's a slight chance CCP might hear us. If they don't, at least I get the pleasure of conversing with all of you guys. Very Happy

Helen

Daolin
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.01.27 08:30:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Calypse
Originally by: Daolin
So everyone should stop doing missions and go mine Zyd and Mega? Rolling Eyes


If it was just about the money ? Maybe. But I do up to 50 million isk a day with level 4 missions, in the safe confines of Empire space, so in my case mining is quite uninteresting.

Besides, even if mining is/was the most effective way to get isk, you have to consider the fun factor : this IS a game, after all. I even enjoy frigate combats, and yet they don't earn me anything.


But that's exactly my point. Even with the current low rewards, you still make more than enough from deadspace missions to cover all expenses, and make a solid profit. So if you are declining deadspace missions because of the lower rewards/loot, you are just looking to optimize your isk/hour, not at the "fun factor".

Quote:
You're right, maybe this needs works from the contents writers, but let's be honest, there isn't much that can be done to make missions different and still keep them doable within a normal time-frame. The moment you start designing better missions which require teams that have to stick together for hours, you know that few players will actually get around doing some, and they won't do many. I've experienced that in AO... spend 1 hour gathering the perfect team, get in the dungeon, kill stuff for 2 hours non-stop, and by the time you get to the boss, half the team has logged, leaving too little firepower to actually complete the mission and get the rewards.


Oooh, AO, those were the times Cool
When I was playing, teams disbanding inside the mission were the exception, not the norm. And even if you had bad experiences with pickup teams, there was the same solution as now is in EVE: make friends ingame. Collect a buddy-list of likely minded people, who are reliable enough to walk through the mission to the end, and/or join a big organization. I never had any problems finding a good team in Storm Twisted Evil

Helen Tiger
The White Wing Cartel
Posted - 2005.01.27 12:46:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Helen Tiger on 27/01/2005 12:50:37
Originally by: Daolin
But that's exactly my point. Even with the current low rewards, you still make more than enough from deadspace missions to cover all expenses, and make a solid profit. So if you are declining deadspace missions because of the lower rewards/loot, you are just looking to optimize your isk/hour, not at the "fun factor".


I beg to differ : in Deadspace missions level 4 the risk of losing your BS is a lot higher than in normal space missions. Losing a BS full of expensive modules isn't anyone's idea of a fun time. And it'd take a lot of successful missions to recover from the loss.

I really mean it : I enjoy normal space missions a lot more than deadspace.

Originally by: Daolin
Oooh, AO, those were the times Cool
When I was playing, teams disbanding inside the mission were the exception, not the norm. And even if you had bad experiences with pickup teams, there was the same solution as now is in EVE: make friends ingame. Collect a buddy-list of likely minded people, who are reliable enough to walk through the mission to the end, and/or join a big organization. I never had any problems finding a good team in Storm Twisted Evil


LOL a fellow AO (ex-)player Very Happy

Storm's a good org, but very few orgs in AO are that great. I was with a pretty big one (Mercenaries of KaiTAG) and with Meister's Omni-Pol before that. I almost never managed to get a team of 6 corp members.

I was a fixer 200 with GA, team fixer grid, the works, and you know how high the demand was for us : "give me GSF please", "blitz that mission for me please", "evades please", "HoT please"... yet it still wasn't easy to get a team.

In fact, the reason I got grid armor was so I could solo almost any mission and any NPC. Because I knew relying on teams would be a huge waste of game-time.

Ultimately, AO's corps were only useful for the tradeskills. You always had someone around to craft armors or implants, or improve a weapon. Even land control was crappy. And don't get me started about Shadowlands, the reason I left AO.

My point is, EVE's corps are quite better than AO's, but for the most part it's just a handy way to have access to manufacturers. I'm in STK / XETIC and I've never yet been asked by anyone to join in doing an agent mission. Yet my skill is well-known and undeniable.

I'm sniping 3 x 1 million BS rats from 100 km as I type this. They don't even get close enough to hit me.

Helen


Pages: 1 [2]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only