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blankseplocked Loophole in POS mechanic - PULSAR Wormohle Systems
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Max Kolonko
Worm Nation
Ash Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.14 21:23:00 - [1]

This is something i just found out. My friend from alliance send it via petition as potential exploit, but it was stated by GM as working as intended.

After each downtime POS Shield is set to level it was before DT, but no more than its max natural shield. thats something thats just happens and doesn't affect gameplay at all, since all people see is that pos has the same HP it had before DT...
but in WH space with Pulsar Class 6 where bonus to shield is +100% it means that pos max HP (natural max) is only 50% of its current maximum.

So, when game wakes from DT pos is at 50% HP, and just a few shots from disabling all CPU based defense.

This exploit is used to disable defense of Pulsar based POS just after DT, and than slowly and unoposed bash it to reinforced.

I would like to hear CSM opinion on that matter.

Okie Wren
Posted - 2011.01.15 03:55:00 - [2]

I agree. Working as intended, it's a risk you can choose to take.

Trebor Daehdoow
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.15 12:05:00 - [3]

I have sent off an email to ask for this to be looked at, but it may well be an intended consequence.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2011.01.17 20:49:00 - [4]

The individual mechanics at play are each simple enough, but the novel interaction of downtime processes, shield bonuses, and POS incapacitation rules set out here is not something that I suspect would have occurred to most people, even those familiar with all 3 components, and quite possibly not even to seasoned game designers at CCP.

If this is an intended consequence, then I recommend that the OP and his friends adapt by using zero-CPU turret-based defences when colonising pulsar systems.

Daan Sai
Posted - 2011.01.19 00:46:00 - [5]

How can it be intended when it is clearly an artefact of the artificial DT mechanics? CCP have said their long term goal is to remove DT altogether (great!), and then this would not happen at all. In this case 'working as intended' is essentially saying "meh CBA to fix it with our stretched resources, and to avoid a discussion that might lead to a job that needs doing we'll pretend it is what we meant."

Jonah Younbrog
Posted - 2011.01.21 11:35:00 - [6]

Edited by: Jonah Younbrog on 21/01/2011 11:43:11
At the very least, DT should NOT be altering the state of the game, the reduction of a POS's shield by 50% due to downtime is simply unacceptable.

The best fix I can come up with is to make the POS Shield unaffected by a pulsar.

The base intention of the starbase shield is to give defenders a reasonable time to respond to attackers, and as attackers get no damage bonus from a pulsar, I consider it balanced.

It does make the starbase less effective at destroying players, but that's the intended mechanic of the pulsar in general.

In addition to this, I think the POS bubble shield should be unaffected by damage increases the wormhole might offer the players, I recall one giving a damage bonus to projectile weapons or some such.

I see no reason to extend any exceptions in the wormhole mechanics to star-base structures, just the POS bubble shield.

Max Kolonko
Worm Nation
Ash Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.03 09:11:00 - [7]

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I have sent off an email to ask for this to be looked at, but it may well be an intended consequence.

Any news?

Trebor Daehdoow
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.04 11:45:00 - [8]

Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow on 04/02/2011 14:27:08
Update: turns out I did get a reply on this one, but confused it with a query on another topic. Clearly I am not drinking enough coffee.

The answer is that this "works as intended"

Assistant Beaker
Posted - 2011.02.07 23:56:00 - [9]

Edited by: Assistant Beaker on 07/02/2011 23:57:52
If we were going to use maths to document this it'd be as follows.

Normal POS shield (for ease of calculations) is 1000 points. When it is at 1000 points it is at 100%.
Damage it to 25% (hit it with 750 points of damage) and it reinforces.

Now in that WH system:

POS shield has 2000 points. Reinforcing it takes 1500 points of damage to take it to 500 which is 25% (how it's supposed to be).
but after downtime, POS has 1000/2000 hitpoints. Deal 500 points of damage to take it to 500 (25%). It's actually EASIER to reinforce this POS in a shield bonused wormhole than it is in normal space. EG only 500 instead of 750 points to reinforce it. Reinforcing it is 33% quicker than it should be.

Now obviously this isn't "working as intended", but if CCP want to say "Ah, we'll just consider that a drawback of that type of wormhole. Until you rep it it's weaker, but once you do it's stronger than normal." then that's something else.

Draconus Lofwyr
CryoTech Engineering
Omega Vector
Posted - 2011.02.08 23:57:00 - [10]

To me this sounds like the same situation with fleet shield boosts after fleet jumping to a new system. Your max shields go up but your current stays the same. Its more CCP is afraid to fix this for fear of opening up an exploit due to gate jumping. Too lazy to fix the issue with real code, so working as intended even though the mechanic is obviously broken.. CCP, HTFU and fix the issues instead of dodging the issues?


Minerva Seraph
Posted - 2011.02.09 07:35:00 - [11]

When software is designed, there are a series of steps taken even before a line of code is written. One of these is the creation of the specifications that the software will follow. In this case, CCP created a spec for wormholes and control towers.

Having worked for a major software company, sometimes "bugs" are discovered that are debated. Questions, such as whether the alleged defect breaks a part of the specification, are raised. Often heated debates break out. In many cases, bugs are stomped. But some are found not to be bugs at all; they are a part of the design specification.

These are therefore said to be "working by design".

What you've discovered is something that you think might be a bug, but is, according to CCP, by design. Thus you are correct to bring the issue up here, but not for the reasons that you think. If you think that this is a game breaker, bring it up as such. It's not a bug, however - it's working within the game's target specifications. If you find that it's a potential balance issue, you can bring it up as such.


Josef Huffenpuff
Posted - 2011.02.10 06:31:00 - [12]

Edited by: Josef Huffenpuff on 10/02/2011 06:33:02
Escalate it to a senior GM. And its not an exploit, its a bug so bug report it. (Actually taking advantage of it is an exploit)

If that doesn't get it fixed escalate it again.

It seems blatantly obvious to most sane people that this isn't working as intended. The POS shields before and after DT should be the same.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.02.10 16:44:00 - [13]

Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 10/02/2011 16:44:01

Clear case of unintended consequenses of WH effects that have broken a previous existing system. This isn't the first case when these WH effects have broken the game. The effects themselves are great, but CCP didn't bother to put safeguards in the system to prevent exploits and the breaking of existing systems.

Just keep pestering them about it and continue to post bug reports. Don't accept their canned answers and keep explaining your points clearly and calmly. All these issues the WH effects keep causing need to be fixed instead of being ignored, but as usual CCP needs to have their snout firmly shoved in their own crap before they will admit there might be a problem.

Shadow Kingdom
Best Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.11 08:17:00 - [14]

Pulsar system with a pulsating shield bonuses. Laughing

Even if it was not intended, this is awesome :D


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