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Zuevil
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.14 14:31:00 - [1]
 

What would be the perfect researched levels for the Avatar BPO? Also any idea as to how long will that take?

Or better yet, is there any tool to calculate these things?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Sorry if this has been answered, have searched and couldn’t find it.

Regards.

Nikolai Kondratiev
Sphere Design Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.14 14:42:00 - [2]
 

ME 100 would be perfect level ... and it would take more time than Eve has left Embarassed

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2011.01.14 14:45:00 - [3]
 

For the typical BPO...

You look at the component requirements, specifically the largest stack of an item.

Then divide that number by 5.

For instance, if an item required 50 Trit and 10 Iso, then the "perfect" ME would be 10 (50/5).

So for the Avatar, requiring 500 of various bits and pieces, the "perfect" ME would be 100.


Good luck with that though, as it would take about 51 years to research it that high.

Karia Sur
Posted - 2011.01.14 14:55:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Karia Sur on 14/01/2011 14:55:49
research it in a pos as you can do it much quicker, somewhere around 36y Cool

Zuevil
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.14 15:37:00 - [5]
 

LoL I didn’t know that…

Ok, what would be an acceptable number then? Both for ME and PE…

Would 3 maybe 4 do it?

Just trying to figure out what can I do with that BPO.

Thank you all so much for the quick replys.

Regards.

Karia Sur
Posted - 2011.01.14 16:17:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Karia Sur on 14/01/2011 16:18:12
optimal is 14

link doesnt work Confused

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2011.01.14 16:20:00 - [7]
 

While I'm not 100% sure the numbers are accurate...

The program Eve-MEEP shows the following about the Avatar BPO.

ME 0 = 4.2bil wasted ISK
ME 1 = 2.1bil wasted ISK (saving 2.1bil 133 days)
ME 2 = 1.45bil wasted ISK (saving 2.8bil in 266 days)
ME 3 = 1bil wasted ISK (saving 3.25bil in 400 days)
ME 4 = 856mil wasted ISK (saving 3.4bil in 533 days)
ME 5 = 686mil wasted ISK (saving 3.6bil in 666 days)

Those are max skill research times at a POS lab as opposed to an NPC station slot.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.01.14 16:25:00 - [8]
 

I can research it - just contract it to me ...Rolling Eyes
but TBH ME1 is going to be a good start

Zuevil
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.14 16:41:00 - [9]
 

Thank you all once more, great help.

Regards.

Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
Posted - 2011.01.14 23:28:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Stella SGP on 14/01/2011 23:30:01
wait... WHAT???

You sunk 60 Bil into something you know nothing about? Or are you planning to get one?

Tasko Pal
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.01.15 00:02:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Stella SGP
Edited by: Stella SGP on 14/01/2011 23:30:01
wait... WHAT???

You sunk 60 Bil into something you know nothing about? Or are you planning to get one?


Eve is awesome that way. And you didn't get his phone number.

DS S
Posted - 2011.01.15 06:26:00 - [12]
 

would you rather spend the time doing 1 more level of research to save 700m/run? or would you rather have 6-8 b isk?

Zuevil
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.15 09:43:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Stella SGP
Edited by: Stella SGP on 14/01/2011 23:30:01
wait... WHAT???
You sunk 60 Bil into something you know nothing about? Or are you planning to get one?

Planing on getting, need to put ISK to good use.

Originally by: DS S
would you rather spend the time doing 1 more level of research to save 700m/run? or would you rather have 6-8 b isk?


Research, if I get it ofc.

Tassemet
Gallente
The Fiction Factory
Precision Gears
Posted - 2011.01.15 11:09:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Zuevil
Originally by: Stella SGP
Edited by: Stella SGP on 14/01/2011 23:30:01
wait... WHAT???
You sunk 60 Bil into something you know nothing about? Or are you planning to get one?

Planing on getting, need to put ISK to good use.

Originally by: DS S
would you rather spend the time doing 1 more level of research to save 700m/run? or would you rather have 6-8 b isk?


Research, if I get it ofc.



Please tell me the location of your POS so i can get a wardec started YARRRR!!

Dregek
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.15 12:16:00 - [15]
 

buy a titan, rat in sanctums better isk return ;)

Strangley Brown
Posted - 2011.01.16 11:13:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
For the typical BPO...

You look at the component requirements, specifically the largest stack of an item.

Then divide that number by 5.

For instance, if an item required 50 Trit and 10 Iso, then the "perfect" ME would be 10 (50/5).

So for the Avatar, requiring 500 of various bits and pieces, the "perfect" ME would be 100.


Good luck with that though, as it would take about 51 years to research it that high.


is there a similar method to work out optimal PE level?

Desmont McCallock
Posted - 2011.01.16 16:30:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Strangley Brown
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
For the typical BPO...

You look at the component requirements, specifically the largest stack of an item.

Then divide that number by 5.

For instance, if an item required 50 Trit and 10 Iso, then the "perfect" ME would be 10 (50/5).

So for the Avatar, requiring 500 of various bits and pieces, the "perfect" ME would be 100.


Good luck with that though, as it would take about 51 years to research it that high.


is there a similar method to work out optimal PE level?


There is no optimal PE level.

Strangley Brown
Posted - 2011.01.16 16:37:00 - [18]
 

well there has to be a point where more research wont affect the time very much, otherwise you could just get it to a stupid level and have massive jobs finish in minuites

Greg Huff
Posted - 2011.01.16 19:17:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Desmont McCallock
There is no optimal PE level.
Wrong. There is an optimal level, but there is no perfect level

Perfect is exactly that, no matter how much more time you spend researching it you cannot improve it. Optimal means it can still be improved but the ROI is extremely low.

Manufacturing time at PE0 is over a month and a half. With 8 or 9 months to research each PE level for a savings of a 5days (PE1), 1.5d (PE2), .75d (PE3) you can see it will require manufacturing more than 50 before paying off the first PE level.

Strangley Brown
Posted - 2011.01.17 12:26:00 - [20]
 

yea, but is there a way to easily figure out optimal pe for any random bp?

Turzyx
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.01.17 12:45:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Strangley Brown
yea, but is there a way to easily figure out optimal pe for any random bp?


Use EVEMon blueprint browser

Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.01.17 15:11:00 - [22]
 


Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.01.17 23:04:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 17/01/2011 23:12:10
Originally by: Desmont McCallock
Originally by: Strangley Brown
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
For the typical BPO...

You look at the component requirements, specifically the largest stack of an item.

Then divide that number by 5.

For instance, if an item required 50 Trit and 10 Iso, then the "perfect" ME would be 10 (50/5).

So for the Avatar, requiring 500 of various bits and pieces, the "perfect" ME would be 100.


Good luck with that though, as it would take about 51 years to research it that high.


is there a similar method to work out optimal PE level?


There is no optimal PE level.

First, that method is wrong, and doesn't even come close for BPO with 5% or 25% waste.

For exact results:
* 5% base waste BPO: Perfect M.E. = FLOOR(max material on M.E. 0 BPO / 10.5)
* 10% base waste BPO: Perfect M.E. = FLOOR(max material on M.E. 0 BPO / 5.5)
* 25% base waste BPO: Perfect M.E. = FLOOR(max material on M.E. 0 BPO / 2.5)
Where the divisor = (1 + waste percentage) / (2 * waste percentage)

FLOOR(X) = ignore the fraction (don't round!)

Derived

Of course not all materials in a BPO have waste, so check first before researching by trying to build the item without materials, and looking at which ones are marked as extra = no waste.

For P.E. there is no perfect, as the fractions of seconds add-up with an increased number of runs, but for one run use a divisor of 5 on the manufacturing time converted to seconds (NOT the "You" time). There is 25% base time waste on all BPO.

On a BPO with 10% base waste, I'd recommend no more than M.E. 20 and P.E. 50 (less than 0.5% waste).

Jimmy Doe
POS Consultants Group LLC
Posted - 2011.01.18 11:25:00 - [24]
 

On any titan BPO, you are wasting your money on anything beyond ME 1. Reasoning is, you are losing out in opportunity costs. The time it will take you to research a titan bpo to ME 10 with skills at 5 and at a pos would be: 3 years, 34 weeks. If you really want to save cash on the builds, the ME factor of the component BPOs are going to matter more. ME 1 on a titan BPO is plenty sufficient.

Refernce: http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.01.18 12:38:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Strangley Brown
yea, but is there a way to easily figure out optimal pe for any random bp?


Optimal is a factor of rounding.

For example, some small rigs use like 3 of these, 4, of those, 2 of them. 10% waste is .3, .4, .2. All of which round to 0. So there is 0 waste even at ME=0.

If you need 10 of something on an unresearch BPO, then you need to research to 1. Why? Well, the base is really 9, and add .9 waste and round... poof 10. Research it to 1. Now you have .05 waste = 9*.05 = 4.5, rounds to 0.

There are 2 ways to find perfect ME. If you know the real base, then divide the largest number by 5 and round down. If you only know the ME=0 BPO as available on the market, then divide the largest number by 5.5 and divide by 2.


But, you asked about PE. Well, the key is to realize that eve rounds to the nearest second. So, take the production time on an ME=0 BPO, convert to seconds, divide by 5.5, round down.

So, if something takes 2 minutes to manufacture on your ME=0 BPO, convert to 120 seconds, divide 120 by 5.5 = 21.8181... Round down to 21.

Or the other direction, this BPO would have to have a base of 109 seconds. 109+10.9 rounds to 120. If you know the base time is 109, divide by 5 = 21.8, round down to 21 perfect PE.



 

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