open All Channels
seplocked EVE Fiction
blankseplocked Capsuller Ships: Crew, maintenance, and more questions!
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Papa EarthDance
Posted - 2011.01.13 16:54:00 - [1]
 

Hey all,

I'm not completely read on the back story of EVE. I love the chronicles and stories, as well as the technology articles. Very good stuff, and surprisingly scientifically sound.

I do have some questions, though, before I start writing some fiction;
-Exactly what does the crew on capsuleer ships do? It is established here that Capsuleer ships do indeed have crews, but I am curious as to their function.
-Do capsuleers control their weaponry directly via. neural interface? Or do they order their crews to from their capsules?
-From a game design point of view, the Capsuleer himself needs to have an intimate working knowledge of the ship. For instance, you cannot rig a ship without the skills. This tells me that the Capsuleer himself does most the maintenance on the ship, or at least oversees it. True?

Thanks to everyone who can clear this up for me!

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2011.01.13 18:18:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Papa EarthDance
For instance, you cannot rig a ship without the skills
True, but you can fly a ship that someone else rigged.

Papa EarthDance
Posted - 2011.01.13 22:39:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
Originally by: Papa EarthDance
For instance, you cannot rig a ship without the skills
True, but you can fly a ship that someone else rigged.


Very informative, thank you.

Anyone else have any answers?

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.01.14 00:13:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Papa EarthDance

-Exactly what does the crew on capsuleer ships do? It is established here that Capsuleer ships do indeed have crews, but I am curious as to their function.
-Do capsuleers control their weaponry directly via. neural interface? Or do they order their crews to from their capsules?
-From a game design point of view, the Capsuleer himself needs to have an intimate working knowledge of the ship. For instance, you cannot rig a ship without the skills. This tells me that the Capsuleer himself does most the maintenance on the ship, or at least oversees it. True?


The simplest way to describe a capsuleer would be as a replacement for the command/bridge staff that would normally be in charge of a spaceship. The improved abilities of a PC ship over a normally-crewed one could thus be attributed to the speed at which the capsuleer can issue orders, since he does need to rely on clumsy manual interfaces and vocal commands and instead merely "thinks" his orders out.

Therefore, the duties of the crew of a capsuleer ship would be largely similar to those of any normal ship. Maintanence, cleaning, loading of ammunition, and repair of internal systems to keep the ship as fully functional through combat (on that note, I think that once you get a ship into structure you should start randomly disabling their modules the more damage you do, but that's another discussion altogether).

Operating the guns/launchers and repair modules and suchlike is more vague; the description for certain boosters (blue pill and exile especially) seems to suggest that the capsuleer directly interfaces with the ship and it's modules almost as if it were a living entity. At the end of the day it's anyones guess, I suppose. I figure CCP left this bit deliberately vague to avoid having to come up with a sensible answer themselves Laughing

When it comes to module installation, the designs are uniform all across New Eden and the ship can be configured by station staff and/or crew simply by giving them a list of what you want fitting. The skill factor comes in when you are trying to *use* a module; for example, if you board someone elses ship from an SMA and it has modules fitted that you cannot use, they will not simply fly off the ship as if magnetically repulsed; you simply cannot use them. The fact that you cannot fit modules you cannot use is, I think, more of a design consideration than a lore/RP one, as it stops new players who may not understand the prereqs fitting shiny T2 modules and getting confused when they cannot use them when they undock.

Papa EarthDance
Posted - 2011.01.14 00:56:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Jovan Geldon
The simplest way to describe a capsuleer would be as a replacement for the command/bridge staff that would normally be in charge of a spaceship. The improved abilities of a PC ship over a normally-crewed one could thus be attributed to the speed at which the capsuleer can issue orders, since he does need to rely on clumsy manual interfaces and vocal commands and instead merely "thinks" his orders out.

Therefore, the duties of the crew of a capsuleer ship would be largely similar to those of any normal ship. Maintanence, cleaning, loading of ammunition, and repair of internal systems to keep the ship as fully functional through combat (on that note, I think that once you get a ship into structure you should start randomly disabling their modules the more damage you do, but that's another discussion altogether).

Operating the guns/launchers and repair modules and suchlike is more vague; the description for certain boosters (blue pill and exile especially) seems to suggest that the capsuleer directly interfaces with the ship and it's modules almost as if it were a living entity. At the end of the day it's anyones guess, I suppose. I figure CCP left this bit deliberately vague to avoid having to come up with a sensible answer themselves Laughing

When it comes to module installation, the designs are uniform all across New Eden and the ship can be configured by station staff and/or crew simply by giving them a list of what you want fitting. The skill factor comes in when you are trying to *use* a module; for example, if you board someone elses ship from an SMA and it has modules fitted that you cannot use, they will not simply fly off the ship as if magnetically repulsed; you simply cannot use them. The fact that you cannot fit modules you cannot use is, I think, more of a design consideration than a lore/RP one, as it stops new players who may not understand the prereqs fitting shiny T2 modules and getting confused when they cannot use them when they undock.


Thanks mate, much appreciated!

However, I still have some questions;
-It is stated in Xenocracy that Capsuleers seem to have direct control over their weapons. A capsuleer mentions "destroying a city with a single thought", though I suppose this could be attributed to him thinking the order.
-Another point is The Resurrection Man where it is discussed how Capsuleers directly interface their brains with their modules.

You can see my confusion; between controlling their weapons directly and interfacing with other modules, I find it difficult to find a reason to even have a crew. Couple that with the fact that many things, such as reloading, cleaning, etc could easily be done with automation, I am not seeing how the lore team is putting together exactly what crews do.

Even when I first began playing, I always imagined that there were no crews; it didn't make sense. I figured that all the crew and living quarters, etc we all plastic'd over, with just the Capsuleer and his ship.

I like the idea of crews, it makes the game more in depth, but I still find either a) the purpose of crews odd considering the Capsuleers direct interface with all ship systems, or b) the purpose of the Capsuleer in question if he has a full host of crew, what's the difference between him an a regular captain the same as any other war vessel.

I'm just trying to figure out the lore that CCP gives us. It's a little hard to work with.

Cheers!

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.14 02:38:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Papa EarthDance
between controlling their weapons directly and interfacing with other modules, I find it difficult to find a reason to even have a crew.


Modules need more than just to be controlled by the commander. They need repair, maintenance, calibration and so on.

A capsuleer's crew will consist at the most basic of maintenance techs and engineers/mechanics, gunnery crew, fighter pilots and their support teams, drone techs and ammunition handlers (you REALLY don't want somebody unqualified to be responsible for the safe transport of a can of seething antimatter the size of an oil drum).

There'll be a hierarchy of officers to administrate these people, presumably ending in an executive officer. There'll also be support personnel such as the galley, security, medical, laundry etc. and let's not forget, say, the quartermaster.

It all adds up pretty quickly.

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.01.14 03:20:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 14/01/2011 03:22:38
Being able to remotely and instantaneously interface with ship systems is all well and good, and is what gives capsuleers the edge over normal ships. However, "interfacing" and "maintaining" are very different things.

In contemporary terms, if I were strapped into a chair I could remotely interface with my TV using the remote control, giving me greater channel-changing ability than someone who has to get up and prod the relevant button on the front every time. However, if the fuse blew and the TV died, I could do all the button pushing in the world and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. The guy who gets up has the advantage in this situation; he can change the fuse and go about his business.

In EVE terms, you could be targeting and activating your guns with a thought, but what if one or even all of them jam? It would be highly impractical, to say the least, for the capsuleer to have to unhook himself and fix them manually in the middle of combat.

Capsuleer ships would have much fewer crew members than normal ships, for sure, but there would still be a need for a maintanence and repair contingent for all the ships systems (plus the necessary support staff and attendants thereof) to keep the ship smoothly ticking over.

Papa EarthDance
Posted - 2011.01.14 03:48:00 - [8]
 

Excellent replies! It makes much more sense now, appreciate the responses!

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.14 09:33:00 - [9]
 

A capsuleer works much like a central ship AI in other games, universes. When I think of a capsuleer ship then I am bit reminded to this: Linkage

Possibly the capsuleer even interacts with his/her crew with a holographic avatar, even when it is just because no one likes to talk into thin air when speaking with the ships captain.

The crews are for repair maintenance and sometimes local control of a part of a ship. A capsuleer is still human and cannot pay attention to every aspect of the ship and the system at the same time, so the crew would have to watch the main reactors power levels, while the capsuleer uses his/her abilities to adjust the weapons targeting during a battle.

Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2011.01.14 19:55:00 - [10]
 

We've been given a lot of fiction wiggle-room over the last few years, wether on purpose or not.

So while the main points tend to be agreed on and supported by the official cannon (pod controls most ship's systems directly, cuts out vast majority of crew), the details seem to be up in the air and leaves plenty of room for our imaginations.

I think also worth pointing out that the amount of atomization would vary significantly by race. The more 'high-tech' ships/races would probably have a much higher percentage of atomization (Caldari and Gallente), with the Amarr and Minmatar boats probably still needing much more 'hands on' work by the crews. The Amarr for being 'old school' in their doctrines and ship designs, and the Minmatar being more 'ad-hoc' in ship construction and engineering.

There's been plenty of pod-crew interface threads over the years, usually with some fun ideas.

I tend to imagine my crew (officers at least) interacting with Silas mostly through audio and holograms. Remember that scene in "The Empire Strikes Back" with the mini Vader hologram aboard the lead AT-AT? I tend to imagine things pretty much like that, with the capsuleer being able to 'appear' at ship consoles and interact/reprimand crew as needed.

Fun topic though, with plenty of room for creativity!



Faolan Fortune
Posted - 2011.01.14 20:35:00 - [11]
 

I agree with the above posts about the ship crew and what functions they perform.

Never really thought about appearing as a hologram throughout the ship, but I really like the idea of that and I guess it is kind of supported in Xenocracy - you could have a hologram appear as any avatar you desire.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.15 06:12:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 15/01/2011 06:22:45
"Automation", Silas.

"Atomization" would be if the ship disintegrated into its component atoms. presumably caused by a catastrophic duct tape shortage.

Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2011.01.18 01:01:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 15/01/2011 06:22:45
"Automation", Silas.

"Atomization" would be if the ship disintegrated into its component atoms. presumably caused by a catastrophic duct tape shortage.


*facepalm*

Epic spellcheck fail. 0/10 for my being able to write coherently :)

Nishachara
True Enlightenment
Posted - 2011.01.18 12:08:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Nishachara on 18/01/2011 12:13:52
I always thought that capsuleers are more than just replacment for the bridge crew.
But that the crew is needed to preform various maintenace work and keep the ship in tip top condition...
...and also that someone could scream when hull is breached while being sucked out to space Twisted Evil

I always imagined myself more like this rather than just a "replacment for bridge crew in one man"...

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.01.18 12:13:00 - [15]
 

i really don't see how pod can replace officers. officers are most trained, experienced and skilled personnel. if crew is important to ship function, wouldn't we want to have most trained, experienced and skilled crew? chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. and officer's are not weak link.

also, automation always works from bottom-up. simpler actions are easier to automate. which means that crew with most simple duties gets replaced first. before someone says drones are evil, capsuleers are using drones all the time. while drones might not be brightest thing in the universe, they do get job done.

imho, as long there are no game mechanics to support crew, players are free to role-play their crew in any way they want. if you want to sit on command bridge in your android double, you can. if you want to command an army of mind-slaves, you can. if you want to control all with thoughts alone, you can.

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.01.19 01:40:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Graelyn on 19/01/2011 01:44:50
Sure you can, you'd just be wrong.

Because tons of Prime Fiction has said so.

If you want to go by mechanics alone, then all ships are hollow, since I can sometimes move my camera inside of the model and no decks appear.

Also, Stargates and planets are incorporeal, since my ship can move through through them at warp.

Ugh...

Mind you, being utterly wrong has never stopped folks from portraying themselves as the unique and special snowflakes of the universe in the past, and it's sure not going to start now.


Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.01.19 16:10:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Graelyn
Edited by: Graelyn on 19/01/2011 01:44:50
Sure you can, you'd just be wrong.
...



wrong how? we can't prove it either way. by your own examples. game is full of inconsistencies. fiction also. also, what does it matter? why would it bother you how someone else role-plays? wouldn't it be better to leave to imagination things that are not strictly defined?

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:10:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
wouldn't it be better to leave to imagination things that are not strictly defined?


But they ARE strictly defined. Here, for one. It states quite clearly that a capsuleer-piloted battleship has a crew of roughly 6000.

Xultanic
Posted - 2011.01.19 23:32:00 - [19]
 

A couple links that'll fill in the knowledge gaps.

All These Lives are Fit to Ruin
Hands of a Killer

Big Gord
Posted - 2011.01.20 21:06:00 - [20]
 

i just came here looking for this exact same info. i always wondered if there was a crew. i do some hauling so i figured there would be crew needed to load and unload stuff. some freighters and transports would have massive crews i imagine.

what about cruisers and frigates? would a rifter have much of a crew? i always imagined frigs as being just the capsuleer.

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.01.21 18:57:00 - [21]
 

Cross-posting:
I've always thought that the stated crew sizes are the maximums and vary depending on sp and possibly hardwiring implants. As the pilot's ability to interface with his ships and modules increases the crew needed would decrease. So a newbie would indeed have a (small) crew on a frigate while a more experienced capsuleer would fly it solo. Same with other hull types, though unlikely to reach zero crew.
Perhaps for some more advanced ships like T2, T3 designed during the capsuleer age the crew reqs would also be lower than the T1 hulls they're based on - systems optimised for pod interface from the ground up.

So the way I look at things a capsuleer new to battleships would need a crew of 600 while one with significant experience might manage with 200-300. A pilot with the equivalent of all V skills and 5% implants could maybe manage with 100-150 crew on a BS.

Mort Eveson
Gallente
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.01.22 13:15:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
i really don't see how pod can replace officers. officers are most trained, experienced and skilled personnel. if crew is important to ship function, wouldn't we want to have most trained, experienced and skilled crew? chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. and officer's are not weak link.


I agree in part, the pod doesn't replace all officers, just the bridge officers. There will still be an engineering officer in engineering, or a weapons officer with the guns, they just don't need to be in the same place. It cuts out a few links in the chain, speeding things up.


Originally by: Jagga Spikes
also, automation always works from bottom-up. simpler actions are easier to automate. which means that crew with most simple duties gets replaced first. before someone says drones are evil, capsuleers are using drones all the time. while drones might not be brightest thing in the universe, they do get job done.


But machines aren't as versatile as people, a person can be given a number of jobs to do, they can respond to a situation in lots of ways. So as someone else said, I imagine the Caldari and Gallente have fully automated weapons reloading, but I still see their being a gunnery crew for when something goes wrong.
Also people are cheap; each planet, each station is producing people all the time, where as machines are expensive. This is especially true for the Amarr, who have cheap slave labour, and the Minmatar, who have a lower availability of hi-tech equipment.

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
imho, as long there are no game mechanics to support crew, players are free to role-play their crew in any way they want. if you want to sit on command bridge in your android double, you can. if you want to command an army of mind-slaves, you can. if you want to control all with thoughts alone, you can.


As others have pointed out, their is plenty of prime fiction to support a crew. There is no prime fiction to support an android double, or further on an android crew. I've not seen any evidence for that level of robotics in eve, further suggesting to me that every machine would have its individual role, making the versatility of a human a great asset.


Wolodymyr
Posted - 2011.01.23 09:32:00 - [23]
 

You know what, I am convinced that this whole "Capsuleer" and "Crew" thing is a lie to keep the humans in New Eden complacent. I am convinced we are a bunch of loopy AI that live in space ships. These character portraits are a facade to keep the mission agents from getting suspicious. I don't even think our ships have hallways or rooms in them, just a bunch of tubes going everywhere.

Heck we even got new character portraits that don't look anything like the old ones.

CaleAdaire
Posted - 2011.01.26 02:14:00 - [24]
 

Also, Stargates and planets are incorporeal, since my ship can move through through them at warp.


In a warp bubble, it is more than likely that the ship, moving at greater than light speeds, is more energy than matter (E=mc^2) energy is equal to mass times the speed of light squared. I haven't done the math but if something were to move at the speed of light squared then it is possible that it could be transmuted into pure energy and back into matter at another point, thus allowing us to move through planets in warp. Maybe CCP planned this, but more likely they took a shortcut for convenience and we just filled in the appropriate theory to make it work...

Emiko Luan
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.01 00:55:00 - [25]
 

Energy of that magnitude, does not pass through things. The explanation for warping through planets is more like the visual representation of the warp drive's space folding mechanism / partially phasing out to warp.

Given that the things we see and hear are not real sensory inputs but a projection from our sensors, planets may seem to pass through us, when we're actually folding/phasing through space.


Mr Squirrel
Posted - 2011.02.01 07:07:00 - [26]
 

I honestly think the whole pod thing is to prevent CCP from having to explain why we can't do awesome stuff like walk through our ships and hire different experienced crews that would have different bonuses like rigs and would require some pay. I honestly don't care about walking in a station. I want to walk in my ship like in Bioware games. That would make me so happy.

Is CCP telling me that 20,000 years in the future you have to be hooked up to a ship in a virtual egg instead of being able to walk around issue orders to officers and have a link to the ships AI that you can also give orders too? Hopefully CCP gets it. I think it would attract a lot of people to the game.

luckyhendrix
Posted - 2011.02.01 08:55:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: luckyhendrix on 01/02/2011 08:55:45
Edited by: luckyhendrix on 01/02/2011 08:55:05
for me without the pod, space fight does even make sense, having crew is stupid when you can have nanobots. what could the crew do that wouldn't be done faster and better by automated machinery ? Plus if you have a crew it means you would have gravity and a presurized ship and these both thing are really unpractical when it comes to build a combat ship.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only