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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.01.13 06:32:00 - [61]
 

[rant]
Everything would be solved by having gun possession mandatory Twisted Evil
If you leave your house without a loaded gun on you, you get fined.
How would that solve anything, you ask ?
Well... let's put it this way... how many people would hold up a police station or a cop bar or some military bases ? Answer, very few, if any. Because they KNOW they'll be injured or killed very soon while not accomplishing much.
Same reasoning here, but this time, it goes for ANYWHERE.
Plus, it's both population control and genetic selection - people with extremely violent tendencies would end up dead very fast, hopefully before they can procreate too much.
[/rant]

YARRRR!!Twisted EvilRazz

Boonaki
Caldari
Focused Annihilation
Detrimental Imperative
Posted - 2011.01.13 09:51:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Akita T
[rant]
Everything would be solved by having gun possession mandatory Twisted Evil
If you leave your house without a loaded gun on you, you get fined.
How would that solve anything, you ask ?
Well... let's put it this way... how many people would hold up a police station or a cop bar or some military bases ? Answer, very few, if any. Because they KNOW they'll be injured or killed very soon while not accomplishing much.
Same reasoning here, but this time, it goes for ANYWHERE.
Plus, it's both population control and genetic selection - people with extremely violent tendencies would end up dead very fast, hopefully before they can procreate too much.
[/rant]

YARRRR!!Twisted EvilRazz


I'd like a test first, half the people that post on youtube should never own a gun.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.13 10:16:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 13/01/2011 01:25:02
Originally by: baltec1

The guy was refused entry into the army because of mental instability and got kicked out of college for the same reason. I would say selling a gun to someone with that kind of record is not in the best interest of the public.


Unfit for the military and expulsion from college aren't legal standards for denying people their rights. But this man had a history of death threats and contact with the sheriff's department and that department didn't use any of those chances to mentally evaluate him.




So are you seriously saying that its perfectly fine in letting these nutters continue to buy guns and go around shooting people because thier right to a gun is more important than public safety?

Not flaming man but thats what it sounds like you are saying.

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2011.01.13 11:23:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Akita T
[rant]
Everything would be solved by having gun possession mandatory Twisted Evil
If you leave your house without a loaded gun on you, you get fined.
How would that solve anything, you ask ?
Well... let's put it this way... how many people would hold up a police station or a cop bar or some military bases ? Answer, very few, if any. Because they KNOW they'll be injured or killed very soon while not accomplishing much.
Same reasoning here, but this time, it goes for ANYWHERE.
Plus, it's both population control and genetic selection - people with extremely violent tendencies would end up dead very fast, hopefully before they can procreate too much.
[/rant]

YARRRR!!Twisted EvilRazz


yeah, no

I don't think half of america is mentally qualified to operate a motor vehicle or computer, let alone a loaded firearm. The number of accidental gun deaths would be :boggle:

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.01.13 16:04:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
I don't think half of america is mentally qualified to operate a motor vehicle or computer, let alone a loaded firearm. The number of accidental gun deaths would be :boggle:

That's kind of the point... another similar experiment would be to take all warning labels off (nobody reads them anyway) and forbid frivolous lawsuits under punishment of death Twisted Evil

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.01.13 16:17:00 - [66]
 

Problem with guns is just...it's easy mode on.
It's remarkable hard to kill someone with a knife for example.

@Op : B.A. got a name for people like you.

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.01.13 17:18:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 13/01/2011 17:21:22
Originally by: baltec1

So are you seriously saying that its perfectly fine in letting these nutters continue to buy guns and go around shooting people because thier right to a gun is more important than public safety?

Not flaming man but thats what it sounds like you are saying.


Military recruiters and college counsellors are not qualified to give a medically recognized mental diagnosis, and no one should be denied their Constitutional rights based on the opinion of either. But the sheriff's department had plenty of opportunities to bring him in for evaluation and didn't, which I suspect is why he's so eager to shift the blame.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.13 17:47:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 13/01/2011 17:21:22
Originally by: baltec1

So are you seriously saying that its perfectly fine in letting these nutters continue to buy guns and go around shooting people because thier right to a gun is more important than public safety?

Not flaming man but thats what it sounds like you are saying.


Military recruiters and college counsellors are not qualified to give a medically recognized mental diagnosis, and no one should be denied their Constitutional rights based on the opinion of either. But the sheriff's department had plenty of opportunities to bring him in for evaluation and didn't, which I suspect is why he's so eager to shift the blame.


TBH it sounds like he is fed up with people going around shooting each other. He was also very ****ed because he was good mates with the judge. Simple fact is the guy was nuts enough for everyone to see it apart from whoever was in charge of giving him the paperwork for the gun.

Firune Corodix
Posted - 2011.01.13 20:21:00 - [69]
 

Human's are the ticking time bombs here, solution? Wipe out humanity. problem solved

Vabjekf
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.13 20:32:00 - [70]
 

People kill other people with non-guns all the time. People are making this about the gun because they are not satisfied with just making it about the person who did it.

People need to stop thinking they can change society with laws.

Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
Posted - 2011.01.13 22:34:00 - [71]
 

People have been shooting at politicians for centuries, MMOs have nothing to do with it.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.13 22:35:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Akita T
[rant]
Everything would be solved by having gun possession mandatory Twisted Evil
If you leave your house without a loaded gun on you, you get fined.
How would that solve anything, you ask ?
Well... let's put it this way... how many people would hold up a police station or a cop bar or some military bases ? Answer, very few, if any. Because they KNOW they'll be injured or killed very soon while not accomplishing much.
Same reasoning here, but this time, it goes for ANYWHERE.
Plus, it's both population control and genetic selection - people with extremely violent tendencies would end up dead very fast, hopefully before they can procreate too much.
[/rant]


YARRRR!!Twisted EvilRazz


You assume that people start thinking about the consequences of their action and this does not happen often enough. They only the know they have the means to permanently shut up the person in front of them.

There are a lot of idiots on this world and a lot of people frustrated and angry for whatever reason. Giving them firearms would be the worst idea ever.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.13 23:09:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Vabjekf
People kill other people with non-guns all the time. People are making this about the gun because they are not satisfied with just making it about the person who did it.

People need to stop thinking they can change society with laws.


You honestly think he could have killed that many with a knife before getting dragged to the ground?

The man was mad and the gun helped him do a lot of damage.

Quemist
Posted - 2011.01.13 23:21:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Quemist on 13/01/2011 23:21:45
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Jada Maroo


"Mental health issues" could evolve to mean anything, and is too vague to base any law on. I don't know the laws of Arizona but in Texas there are certain specific mental conditions that are reported to the state and that forbid the purchase of a gun.

If Arizona has the same sort of law, which I suspect it does, then you can thank the Sheriff's office for not insisting on a mental examination in one of the many times they dealt with Loughner after his repeated death threats.

These people are dead because of the actions of one crazy person and the inaction and incompetence of Sherriff Dupnik's office. And how there could be a scheduled public event for a Congresswoman and he didn't have even one officer present is beyond me.


The guy was refused entry into the army because of mental instability and got kicked out of college for the same reason. I would say selling a gun to someone with that kind of record is not in the best interest of the public.

As for the protection. You shouldn't need it to have meeting with the public in a first world western democracy.


No he was rejected from joining the army because he admitted to smoking pot. They test you a lot before joining. They take stuff like that seriously

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.13 23:37:00 - [75]
 

weed turns people into killers! the crazy commercials were right! Shocked

Quemist
Posted - 2011.01.13 23:49:00 - [76]
 

lol yep, crazy pot heads

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.01.14 00:17:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Herr Wilkus
This makes me wonder how many Eve players out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.

Yeah ... Laughing

But seriously, the news media is a bunch of trolls. The only people who believe in an actual connection between teenage violence and online games are the media and perhaps a few, naive online gamers.

Almost every teenager is playing computer games these days and one could just as easily blame puberty itself as the cause. But is anyone doing this? No.

The parents are to blame. Parents may not be made liable for the actions of their children beyond a certain age of their children, but that does not mean that the parents are innocent. If parents let their children play violent computer games and do not see to it that their children get out now and then to take part in other activities then it is not the fault of the games or their children.

Parents should be held liable for the actions of their children not only relative to the children's age, but also depending on other factors. I.e. if the children are still going to school, if they are living at their parent's home, and if they are having a job.

Banning the games is a quick solution, but it does not address the cause of the problem. Here politics make the gaming industry the scapegoat and lets the majority of the voters - the parents - live in bliss. Until it happens again. Before then will politics never do what is right, but only what is good for politicians. Rolling Eyes

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2011.01.14 00:32:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Wikus VanDerSer
Implying that playing EVE constitutes dangerous behaviour for people is as silly as saying that watching V for Vendetta amounts to me wanting to blow up Big Ben.




Funny, I get an odd tingly feeling and sweaty palms watching that bit of the film. Just think of all the good you could do for the world if parliament was full of politicians at the time when you blew up big ben and the scum who work in that building.

Now go watch the film again and remember that if you did it for real you'd be a hero Twisted Evil

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.01.14 00:40:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
The parents are to blame. Parents may not be made liable for the actions of their children beyond a certain age of their children, but that does not mean that the parents are innocent. If parents let their children play violent computer games and do not see to it that their children get out now and then to take part in other activities then it is not the fault of the games or their children.

Parents should be held liable for the actions of their children not only relative to the children's age, but also depending on other factors. I.e. if the children are still going to school, if they are living at their parent's home, and if they are having a job.

Banning the games is a quick solution, but it does not address the cause of the problem. Here politics make the gaming industry the scapegoat and lets the majority of the voters - the parents - live in bliss. Until it happens again. Before then will politics never do what is right, but only what is good for politicians. Rolling Eyes


Parents are not always to blame and I know this for a fact because my own parents where decent parents and hard working law abiding people that tried their best to bring me up the right way. I had other ideas and from early teens I was more than a problem child I was a total toe rag that thought school sucked and didn't bother going and thought drugs and booze where much more fun and doing all kinds of anti social and criminal behaviour.

Short of sending me into care my parents could do nothing to stop me I refused to listen to them or anyone else and whatever they tried whether it was punishment or trying to teach me what I was doing would cause even greater problems years down the line didn't matter I still did what I wanted to do, it wasn't until years later and my early 20s that I finally came around and stop my self destructive behaviour.

It always irks me when people blame parents because its not always the case.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.01.14 00:54:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
It always irks me when people blame parents because its not always the case.

From the sound of it did your parents let you take all the blame. They never thought it was their fault, but instead made sure that you knew who is to blame. Do you think that this is what parents should be doing?

I think that the parents are to blame.

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.01.14 01:06:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
It always irks me when people blame parents because its not always the case.

From the sound of it did your parents let you take all the blame. They never thought it was their fault, but instead made sure that you knew who is to blame. Do you think that this is what parents should be doing?

I think that the parents are to blame.


They where actually tearing their hair our with me, the only option they had was to disown me because literally nothing they or anybody else did changed a thing. I find it interesting how you can make judgments about a situation you know next to nothing about, you don't know me or my parents or what I put them through yet you claim to understand it all.

You can either believe my post and take it at face value or you can pretend to know about things you have no experience with, its up to you.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.14 02:03:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 14/01/2011 02:06:02

Parents are just another variable in the equation.

I do not want to get into the gun debate, but according to nation master most countries that report murders and have lower murder rates then the US, have approximately .034 - .04 percent lower homicide rate then the US. There are more important things to worry about then trying to take and keep away all the guns from 'normal' US citizens.

Yes this is an extremely sad occurrence, but the gun is not the issue. You can say that he could not have caused as nearly as much damage with a knife; and my response to that is, he could have caused far greater damage with a few chemicals that can be bought fairly easily.

EDIT: added a zero to the second number and added the link.


Slade

ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.14 06:25:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 14/01/2011 06:31:33
Originally by: baltec1
So are you seriously saying that its perfectly fine in letting these nutters continue to buy guns and go around shooting people because thier right to a gun is more important than public safety?

Not flaming man but thats what it sounds like you are saying.
So you´re seriously saying it´s okay for nutters like this hitting up some pimp for an illegal gun, while a good citizen should not be allowed to defend himself with appropriate force?

If just one aide had a concealed gun permit that little girl would probably still be alive.

Think about the children.

And yes, I´m flaming so effing hard, because anti-gun law nuts like you just aren´t able to grasp simple facts when they´re outside of your ideology.
Rolling Eyes
Thus a discussion rarely makes sense.

Ah, feeling better now.

Vabjekf
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.14 12:20:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Vabjekf
People kill other people with non-guns all the time. People are making this about the gun because they are not satisfied with just making it about the person who did it.

People need to stop thinking they can change society with laws.


You honestly think he could have killed that many with a knife before getting dragged to the ground?

The man was mad and the gun helped him do a lot of damage.


A knife is not a very good weapon, a knife is a utility device which can be used as a weapon if you absolutly have nothing better to use. So no, probably not with a knife.

If someone is planning on going and killing a bunch of people, and tries to use something not well suited for it, then they are just being silly.

Lacking a gun you could make a bomb, or just corner people somewhere and attack them with a chainsaw.

Difficult you say? Anti-gun people have obviously never fired a handgun. Its actually quite difficult to hit targets consistently even a close distance away with out a good deal of practice.

In fact that he managed to get 6 people with only 3-4 shots each shows that he knew what he was doing and probably had a good deal of practice with a handgun. So you can not say that he just picked up a gun and went on a rampage. He spent time and effort getting good with his weapon of choice, which was his weapon of choice because he knew it. Any number of things are far more dangerous as a killing device with the same level of experience, such as household cleaning products, to someone who knew what they were doing with them, they would have been their weapon of choice.

The number of gun related deaths/crimes by people who actualy know what they are doing is extreemly small and minute. The vast majority are by people who do not know what they are doing, using illegally obtained weapons.

An incident like this is the same sort of thing as someone running a bunch of people down with a car. A car can be dangerous if you want it to be, so can a gun. And in fact plowing down a crowded sidewalk would probably get you a much higher bodycount than any sort of gun if you picked your time and place right.

What im saying is you need to separate incidents where someone is specifically setting out to kill people, you are not going to be able to stop those because people are smart and will always find a way to kill people.

Djavo
Midas Tycho
Posted - 2011.01.14 12:46:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Vabjekf
you are not going to be able to stop those because people are smart and will always find a way to kill people.


Very true, back in nam I lost my gun and I had to kill people with curly pig willies.

Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
Posted - 2011.01.14 13:22:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Cyprus Black
Tuscon shooter likes orange juice. Action by Tropicana necessary?

This makes me wonder how many juice lovers out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.

Should beverage companies such as Tropicana be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society - or will they hide behind FDA regulations?

My condolences to those injured and killed in this terrible attack, and I hope Tropicana does whatever it can to prevent further bloodshed.


I lol'd

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.01.14 14:40:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 14/01/2011 14:40:45
Originally by: Vabjekf
Lacking a gun you could make a bomb, or just corner people somewhere and attack them with a chainsaw.


I can already see the streets filled with people with C-4 strapped to their chest and wielding chainsaws, because, you know, somewhere out there someone might want to blow me up, but I'll blow them up first ! That'll show em ! Razz

I'm fine with US people wanting to hang to their guns, but I also am glad we have different laws over here.

EDIT : I have actually fired guns and it's a piece of cake.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.01.14 17:48:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
You can either believe my post and take it at face value or you can pretend to know about things you have no experience with, its up to you.

No, I do believe you and I also do have the experience. My parents were not perfect either and made mistakes, too. It does not mean that I, you or the parents have to take all the blame.

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.01.14 18:11:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
You can either believe my post and take it at face value or you can pretend to know about things you have no experience with, its up to you.

No, I do believe you and I also do have the experience. My parents were not perfect either and made mistakes, too. It does not mean that I, you or the parents have to take all the blame.


There is a huge difference between making mistakes and being completely responsible for the future behaviour of their children, ultimately parents are only one influence on a child's upbringing and things like the upbringing environment and siblings, teachers and the social culture during childhood.

Some parents are obviously to culpable but sometimes other people and circumstances are the cause and may not always be something the parents can influence or even be aware of, somethings can be so subtle that there is no way anybody could be reasonably be expected to recognise.

In some cases it may just be the way the child is and not down to any external influence and sometimes it is the parents fault I saw plenty of that to, friends I had where neglected and left to their own devices others ended up unable to have functional relationships because their parents set such a bad example with the relationship with the other partner but I still believe that its not always the fault of the parents.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.14 18:20:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: baltec1 on 14/01/2011 18:25:52
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 14/01/2011 06:31:33
Originally by: baltec1
So are you seriously saying that its perfectly fine in letting these nutters continue to buy guns and go around shooting people because thier right to a gun is more important than public safety?

Not flaming man but thats what it sounds like you are saying.
So you´re seriously saying it´s okay for nutters like this hitting up some pimp for an illegal gun, while a good citizen should not be allowed to defend himself with appropriate force?

If just one aide had a concealed gun permit that little girl would probably still be alive.

Think about the children.

And yes, I´m flaming so effing hard, because anti-gun law nuts like you just aren´t able to grasp simple facts when they´re outside of your ideology.
Rolling Eyes
Thus a discussion rarely makes sense.

Ah, feeling better now.


er..dude I said nothing about normal people not having guns, just the mad ones. Or are you saying all Americans are nutters waiting to explode, with chainsaws covered in bleach...and pot.Shocked


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