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Iraherag
Posted - 2011.01.12 18:04:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Iraherag on 12/01/2011 18:05:08
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Wall Street Journal Article

This makes me wonder how many Eve players out there are ticking time bombs - just waiting to go off.

What steps should CCP take to tone down the hateful eliminationist imagery that can trigger troubled individuals to commit terrible acts of violence like this one?

Should gaming companies such as CCP be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society - or will they hide behind concepts such as 'free speech' or EULA?

My condolences to those injured and killed in this terrible attack, and I hope CCP does whatever it can to prevent further bloodshed.


I'm sure he did a lot of other things too.
Like driving a car, drinking water, watching TV, eating burgers, ...

Should anyone providing any of this be held partially responsible for the acts of marginal members of society too?

There are literally millions of people gaming every day without riotting on the streets...

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.12 18:11:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 12/01/2011 17:25:50
OK, first we got people blaming the Tea Baggers
Now their blaming video games.
Next they will be blaming Islam.

Can't we just all agree that there exist crazies who kill people because they are crazy?
And not because of any particular scape goat.


One thing I think we can all agree on is that giving him a gun was not the best of things to do with his backgroundugh


Keta Fraal
Nul and Booleans
Posted - 2011.01.12 18:11:00 - [33]
 

oh you are right.

the american civil war was a democratic war.

genocide of the American Nations was spreading democracy.

every instance where guns are used on domestic soil is to further safeguard democracy.

The truth is guns can no sooner keep the government in check than the collective efforts of a nation's media. But guns aren't even the most important issue. The real fears are from without, and it is through fear that democracy is suppressed.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.12 18:24:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Keta Fraal
oh you are right.

the american civil war was a democratic war.

genocide of the American Nations was spreading democracy.

every instance where guns are used on domestic soil is to further safeguard democracy.

The truth is guns can no sooner keep the government in check than the collective efforts of a nation's media. But guns aren't even the most important issue. The real fears are from without, and it is through fear that democracy is suppressed.


Guns rock, no doubt about that

Calvin Firenze
Minmatar
Caeli Veredictum
Posted - 2011.01.12 18:44:00 - [35]
 

Sadly, the media will take any aspect of a person's life and blow it out of proportion. They'll do it subtly as in this case. They won't come right out and say "his gaming life made him a violent person" but they will flaunt the fact that he was a gamer and point you to the conclusion they want you to draw.

I'm sure there are plenty of people in eve that you would consider to be "ticking time bombs." More often than not, these people are just angry with the establishment or whatever it is that bothers them. Most of them are not going to act on their impulses and go on a shooting spree. When they do, you can be sure the media will look for something to blame. "Man goes on a shooting spree, sources say he plays Eve Online; a game that encourages violence and backstabbing within its own community."

Gaming companies should not be held responsible for any acts of violence committed by so called "marginal members of society." Violence has been around for thousands of years, long before any gaming industry came into being. If an individual has certain proclivities for violence, games are not going to influence that any more than anything else in the world.

Vak'ran
TUIG Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.12 19:40:00 - [36]
 

stop feeding the bloody troll! ffs, how obvious does it need to get for you people...

OP, your taste in trolling disgusts me.

Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2011.01.12 19:42:00 - [37]
 

The sky is falling!

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.12 19:42:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Keta Fraal
Edited by: Keta Fraal on 12/01/2011 17:46:45
Things we know about Loughner:

1.He owned a gun

2.he went to school and dropped out

3.he had trouble getting a job and keeping it

4.he did not have many friends

5.he played mmos

6.he posted on forums and youtube

7.from his interaction with people, he was understood to be outside the norm .

8.he was angry at Giffords for some reason.

Edit: Oh no. i share all the traits in the list except nos. 1 and 8. I should be very careful!
In that list, where do you think the problem most lies.


You forgot to add prescribed psychotropic drugs and not taking said psychotropic drugs.

Now crawl back under the bridge and the same goes for the OP Twisted Evil


Slade

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.01.12 19:44:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Zhim''Fufu on 12/01/2011 19:46:08
If anything I got the impression that the emotional release he got from venting on forums in an anonymous fashion actually kept him on the razors edge of sanity. It's when he actually mingled with real people face to face is where it all seems to have went to crap. So blame the people in his daily life for ingnoring the signals of a very disturbed man and not trying to get him help.


Originally by: Vak'ran
stop feeding the bloody troll! ffs, how obvious does it need to get for you people...

OP, your taste in trolling disgusts me.
The op might be a troll but tbh its still a topic that needs discussing. Especially when it come to identifiying and helping those with mental issues in real life before they hurt themselves or others.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2011.01.12 19:47:00 - [40]
 

Earth 2025 caused a massmurder. Laughing I played that game, the only thing it caused was a slight aversion to asian botrunners.

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2011.01.12 19:54:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Keta Fraal
Edited by: Keta Fraal on 12/01/2011 17:50:30
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Things we know about Loughner:

1.He owned a gun

In that list, where do you think the problem most lies.


Awesome, another veiled anti-gun post...


Hardly veiled my friend. If you fix your "democracy" you won't need guns.(Unless you use guns to "fix" democracy).


No need to fix what isn't broken.

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.01.12 19:57:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Edited by: Keta Fraal on 12/01/2011 17:50:30
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Things we know about Loughner:

1.He owned a gun

In that list, where do you think the problem most lies.


Awesome, another veiled anti-gun post...


Hardly veiled my friend. If you fix your "democracy" you won't need guns.(Unless you use guns to "fix" democracy).


No need to fix what isn't broken.
Blame the mass media for painting the picture to our global neighbors that it is broken. Much like the completely biased reporting done so far on this story.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.12 20:01:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Blame the mass media for painting the picture to our global neighbors that it is broken. Much like the completely biased reporting done so far on this story.


Nothing biased in the news over here so farWink

Vak'ran
TUIG Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.12 20:12:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

Originally by: Vak'ran
stop feeding the bloody troll! ffs, how obvious does it need to get for you people...

OP, your taste in trolling disgusts me.
The op might be a troll but tbh its still a topic that needs discussing. Especially when it come to identifiying and helping those with mental issues in real life before they hurt themselves or others.


Anyone with the least shred of intelligence will agree that this 'digging for reasons' thing, when proceeding to single out small single and oft questionable contributing factors, is proposterous. As a large part of this forum's patronage is suitably intelligent, we all end up thoroughly beating a long-dead horse over a recent serious incident, which I find tasteless and inconsiderate to the situation. So no, it does not need to be discussed, not every single time **** like this happens. Its not like the world press is going to get sensible because we proceeded to bash said dead horse on some obscure game forum again this time around.

I maintain that the only purpose served by this thread is that the OP is wallowing is his 'success'.

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.01.12 20:17:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Vak'ran
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

Originally by: Vak'ran
stop feeding the bloody troll! ffs, how obvious does it need to get for you people...

OP, your taste in trolling disgusts me.
The op might be a troll but tbh its still a topic that needs discussing. Especially when it come to identifiying and helping those with mental issues in real life before they hurt themselves or others.


Anyone with the least shred of intelligence will agree that this 'digging for reasons' thing, when proceeding to single out small single and oft questionable contributing factors, is proposterous. As a large part of this forum's patronage is suitably intelligent, we all end up thoroughly beating a long-dead horse over a recent serious incident, which I find tasteless and inconsiderate to the situation. So no, it does not need to be discussed, not every single time **** like this happens. Its not like the world press is going to get sensible because we proceeded to bash said dead horse on some obscure game forum again this time around.

I maintain that the only purpose served by this thread is that the OP is wallowing is his 'success'.
One of those 'not in my backyard' types I see. Way to reach out and help someone. Rolling Eyes
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Blame the mass media for painting the picture to our global neighbors that it is broken. Much like the completely biased reporting done so far on this story.


Nothing biased in the news over here so farWink
Of course! Wink

Vak'ran
TUIG Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.12 20:33:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Vak'ran
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

Originally by: Vak'ran
stop feeding the bloody troll! ffs, how obvious does it need to get for you people...

OP, your taste in trolling disgusts me.
The op might be a troll but tbh its still a topic that needs discussing. Especially when it come to identifiying and helping those with mental issues in real life before they hurt themselves or others.


Anyone with the least shred of intelligence will agree that this 'digging for reasons' thing, when proceeding to single out small single and oft questionable contributing factors, is proposterous. As a large part of this forum's patronage is suitably intelligent, we all end up thoroughly beating a long-dead horse over a recent serious incident, which I find tasteless and inconsiderate to the situation. So no, it does not need to be discussed, not every single time **** like this happens. Its not like the world press is going to get sensible because we proceeded to bash said dead horse on some obscure game forum again this time around.

I maintain that the only purpose served by this thread is that the OP is wallowing is his 'success'.
One of those 'not in my backyard' types I see. Way to reach out and help someone. Rolling Eyes


No, one of those that is disgusted by people made to cater to the whims of certain kinds of trolls, such as the OP.

But go on beating the dead horse while the OP chuckles, helping absolutely nobody. I will stop bothering your improvements of society by means of the EVE-O forum while you continue to entertain those of ill taste.

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.01.12 20:47:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Vak'ran
No, one of those that is disgusted by people made to cater to the whims of certain kinds of trolls, such as the OP.

But go on beating the dead horse while the OP chuckles, helping absolutely nobody. I will stop bothering your improvements of society by means of the EVE-O forum while you continue to entertain those of ill taste.
So if you have no interest in trying to form a valid discusion of why people go off the deep end and and what could we as a society do about it along with the unfortunate misconceptions like the report the op linked(even though the op is a troll) that further alienate people who need help then why are you bothering to even post? I mean you already said its a waste of your time yes?

Vak'ran
TUIG Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.12 21:02:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Vak'ran
No, one of those that is disgusted by people made to cater to the whims of certain kinds of trolls, such as the OP.

But go on beating the dead horse while the OP chuckles, helping absolutely nobody. I will stop bothering your improvements of society by means of the EVE-O forum while you continue to entertain those of ill taste.
So if you have no interest in trying to form a valid discusion of why people go off the deep end and and what could we as a society do about it along with the unfortunate misconceptions like the report the op linked(even though the op is a troll) that further alienate people who need help then why are you bothering to even post? I mean you already said its a waste of your time yes?


Because it disgusts me, and I feel very strongly about that. As much as you have a right to beat your dead horse, I have a right to voice my opinion about you doing so. I did, with the wish you lot would stop. You don't intend to, good for you, makes that I am done with it, so carry on by all means.

Just don't go and assume apathy on my end, you do not have nearly enough information to make such an accusation, making it uninspired mudslinging, another thing I feel strongly about, especially when directed at me.

As said, carry on if you so wish. I still feel you are not helping anyone and entertaining a misguided OP, but have said my piece in that respect.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.12 21:11:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Vak'ran
bawww


Dude chillax. I trolled Zhim, he hit me with sarcasm, lulz were had. No need to take these posts so serious.

Vak'ran
TUIG Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.12 23:03:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Vak'ran
bawww


Dude chillax. I trolled Zhim, he hit me with sarcasm, lulz were had. No need to take these posts so serious.


Hey I'm chill, when I feel strongly about something i'm all businesslike about it Smile

I too wanna better the world, in my own way, one forum patron at a time Very Happy

Ts'ao Ts'ao
Capsuleer Profit Sharing Enterprise
Posted - 2011.01.12 23:28:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Keta Fraal
Hardly veiled my friend. If you fix your "democracy" you won't need guns.(Unless you use guns to "fix" democracy).


Guns aren't used to fix democracy. They're used to create, preserve and defend it.



Democracy, freedom and equality..

correct?

So what about the congress womans freedom?
what about all those kids that die in those school shoot outs of days past, what happen to their freedom? and what did it perserve? nothing, infact it called a good part of the future generation.

No equality, so a poor guy who cannot afford a gun, is still equal to a guy who has a gun? yeah right

Sooner some sort of proper legislation comes into force that prevent any tom, **** or harry from owning a gun, there will always be this issue and many more will needlessly die

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.12 23:48:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: baltec1 on 12/01/2011 23:48:21
Originally by: Ts'ao Ts'ao



Democracy, freedom and equality..

correct?

So what about the congress womans freedom?
what about all those kids that die in those school shoot outs of days past, what happen to their freedom? and what did it perserve? nothing, infact it called a good part of the future generation.

No equality, so a poor guy who cannot afford a gun, is still equal to a guy who has a gun? yeah right

Sooner some sort of proper legislation comes into force that prevent any tom, **** or harry from owning a gun, there will always be this issue and many more will needlessly die


TBH I do not see why anyone would be against a gun ban on people who have a history of violance/mental health issues.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.13 00:16:00 - [53]
 

What do Chocolate cookies taste like?

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.01.13 00:26:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 13/01/2011 00:29:40
Originally by: baltec1

TBH I do not see why anyone would be against a gun ban on people who have a history of violance/mental health issues.


"Mental health issues" could evolve to mean anything, and is too vague to base any law on. I don't know the laws of Arizona but in Texas there are certain specific mental conditions that are reported to the state and that forbid the purchase of a gun.

If Arizona has the same sort of law, which I suspect it does, then you can thank the Sheriff's office for not insisting on a mental examination in one of the many times they dealt with Loughner after his repeated death threats.

These people are dead because of the actions of one crazy person and the inaction and incompetence of Sherriff Dupnik's office. And how there could be a scheduled public event for a Congresswoman and he didn't have even one officer present is beyond me.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.13 00:47:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo


"Mental health issues" could evolve to mean anything, and is too vague to base any law on. I don't know the laws of Arizona but in Texas there are certain specific mental conditions that are reported to the state and that forbid the purchase of a gun.

If Arizona has the same sort of law, which I suspect it does, then you can thank the Sheriff's office for not insisting on a mental examination in one of the many times they dealt with Loughner after his repeated death threats.

These people are dead because of the actions of one crazy person and the inaction and incompetence of Sherriff Dupnik's office. And how there could be a scheduled public event for a Congresswoman and he didn't have even one officer present is beyond me.


The guy was refused entry into the army because of mental instability and got kicked out of college for the same reason. I would say selling a gun to someone with that kind of record is not in the best interest of the public.

As for the protection. You shouldn't need it to have meeting with the public in a first world western democracy.

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.01.13 01:25:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 13/01/2011 01:25:02
Originally by: baltec1

The guy was refused entry into the army because of mental instability and got kicked out of college for the same reason. I would say selling a gun to someone with that kind of record is not in the best interest of the public.


Unfit for the military and expulsion from college aren't legal standards for denying people their rights. But this man had a history of death threats and contact with the sheriff's department and that department didn't use any of those chances to mentally evaluate him.

Quote:
As for the protection. You shouldn't need it to have meeting with the public in a first world western democracy.


HPD posts an officer at city council meetings, and those people are a lot less of a potential target than a national congresswoman.

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.01.13 01:41:00 - [57]
 

This is why I think psychologists should make the rules, the way a child is raised determines 95% of their fate and future, games, media, movies etc barely act as a catalyst.

Its like alcoholics, they dont start drinking because they saw it on a movie and they donít drink because they are addicted either, it is usually because of something psychological same as people who find it ok to kill people (or animals).

Which is why it is stupid to have guns legal, when people can freely raise a kid bad who will grow up and do more harm than good and if they feel like it get a gun

Harrigan VonStudly
Original Sin.
Underworld Excavators
Posted - 2011.01.13 02:13:00 - [58]
 

Incoming wall of text

The guy is a total nut job. He could have gone out and pick axed someone. There is plenty of evidence coming to light that people knew he was psychotic. Arizona has a very liberal psychological hold policy. If someone feels that a person is mentally ill or suffering from or exhibiting some sort of psychosis they can be turned in and held for further evaluation. No one did anything. The sheriff down there failed miserably. They knew this guy was a nut and yet there was no metal evaluations done nor was anything put on his record thus allowing him to purchase a weapon in a gun store. The people around this guy failed. The sheriff failed. The psych reporting/holding ability, which I repeat is very liberal in AZ failed. Failed because, like most of these situations, the people in the direct "know" did jack ****. There are people who report other people to social services for having a fat kid and claim it to be child abuse but no one reported this nut job? Or if they did, the sheriff failed miserably.

Speech, nor games, nor anything should be squashed because some nut job can't control him/herself. Miss Piggy from Seseme Street drive me bat **** crazy. But I don't go around slaughtering pigs or shooting people.

In closing, free speech does not necessarily give one the right to say absolutely anything. There is a line between free speech and common sense and decency. One can not yell "fire" in a movie theater. Some would argue free speech. There's a reason why you can't. It wasn't speech of anyone that spurred this senseless act of violence. It wasn't left or right. It wasn't Sarah Palin. It was mental disease. Period!

0/ Herr. Long time no see.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.01.13 02:52:00 - [59]
 

Maybe we can all hold hands and love eachother. Rolling Eyes

People need to accept there will always be insane people.

No matter what you do, situations will arise that foster their mentality. Even without guns, films and videogames, you can feel excluded from society, angry about your situation and that everyone is against you - driving you to violent action. Violence is one of the most natural human functions.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.13 03:18:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: TimMc
Maybe we can all hold hands and love eachother. Rolling Eyes

People need to accept there will always be insane people.

No matter what you do, situations will arise that foster their mentality. Even without guns, films and videogames, you can feel excluded from society, angry about your situation and that everyone is against you - driving you to violent action. Violence is one of the most natural human functions.



Violence is not the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes Twisted Evil


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