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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.11 07:44:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Iamien


Purpose of booth babes are to draw attention to your booth and away from competitor's at a conference.
uhm, yah. And the problem is?
Quote:
At a fan-fest for a particular project, it is best to let the players do cos-play if they wish.
Are you outa your friggen mind?
The LAST thing I wanna see is some hairy IT members prancing about in their Juggalo wear or the Goons in drag.. Shocked
*shivers

ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.11 08:08:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 11/01/2011 08:30:04
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Did you ever try to understand what some of the questions or answers had been in a roundtable/panel discussion on those FF videos?
I'm all for better soundquality.

God yes!

Some of those FF vids were very annoying. Having the Dev repeat the question before answering is workable, I guess.

Why not have a sound guy pointing one of these at the current guest speaker instead?

Oh, and the COMPLETE absence of anything Incarna related is indeed ringing loud in these minutes(including the other two posted the page before).
I´ll wait till fanfest though, with my serious rabblerabble.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.01.11 09:17:00 - [63]
 

"The idea of booth babes (pretty girls dressed up in EVE costumes, handing out stuff) was discouraged by the CSM."

Why ?

This had better be good...

Iraherag
Posted - 2011.01.11 09:29:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Hawk TT
TBH the DevBlog is pretty ascetic...

Mentioning that we are getting Part 1 of 3 does not give us very good idea what are the remaining topics in Part 2 & Part 3.

Also, having in mind the "aerodynamic style" of Part 1, I am afraid that Part 2 & Part 3 will be heavily NDA-blurred as well...Sad

Just for a reference - CSM5 June 2010 Summit Minutes

One big difference - The June 2010 minutes contain lots of specific questions / suggestions AND ACTION POINTS

P.S. The rate of interesting DevBlogs has fallen in the recent weeks, probably due to the Holidays, probably due to the soon-to-be-hit deadlines...Who knows? CSM or CCP? ugh

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
I really shouldnt have to mention this (as it is clearly stated in the devblog), but

This is only part 1 of 3 of the minutes

We did not spend 3 days discussing what you read here (in fact, this is roughly one day worth of discussions). The rest - with a notably more gameplay heavy theme - will come in the following days :)




Wait, are you suggesting publishing a timeline with covered topics when pushing information in several chunks?
Actually making predictions about what is going to happen instead of just saying "here's one part of it"?

Wow, that sounds like a completely new way of doing things!
This radically new idea will certainly need some more thinking and working out the details, but I'm sure the CSM will have a detailed proposal for the next meeting about this.

Once the voting is passed that idea can be forwared to CCP and hopefully implemented in the first release cycle planned for 2012!


What an amazing idea...

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2011.01.11 13:48:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: devblog
An early draft version of one team’s backlog was brought out, with various features and their "complexity score" (i.e. approximate effort needed to implement) listed, totaling around 200 complexity points of work. The 9 members of the CSM present were each given ten tokens (each being worth a single complexity point), and told to collectively decide which features they wanted to "buy". Towards the end, they were told that "TQ was broken" – in order to introduce an element of surprise that can very well happen in real development environment – and they'd "lost a programmer from the team", removing 30 points' worth of possible work.

Dont be a tease, elaborate more on this. I want to know what options where there, who chose what, and what is going to be done about it.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.11 14:23:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Skippermonkey
Dont be a tease, elaborate more on this. I want to know what options where there, who chose what, and what is going to be done about it.


I personally argued for this, but the response was that they didn't feel comfortable doing this at this time, given that the list was preliminary in nature. TBH this is not unreasonable, especially since the list is going to get revised during January release planning.

The nature of what this particular team is working on is mentioned in the current draft of one of the other sections of the minutes, coming soon to a thread near you.

Needless to say, CSM pressed for a devblog about the Nefarious Plans™ of this Diabolical Team®.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.01.11 15:22:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: KaarBaak
Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Shepard Book
Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Question Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be thereExclamation


Considering the CSM does not provide feedback or comments regarding DUST, and that it does not appear CCP has sorted out exactly what the connection between EVE and DUST will be (see October minutes), I respectfully disagree.



Shouldn't we (you) be elbowing your way to the table in order to start giving feedback and comments before something dreadful happens and reacting to it? Wouldn't it be fun to be just a little bit pro-active for once?


If only there was a Dust table to elbow our way to.

When asked in October if CCP would implement CSM-like groups for Dust and WoD, they said "Maybe." When CCP indicates that they can or are willing to discuss with CSM precisely how Dust will connect to and influence EVE, then there will be a reason for the CSM to engage proactively. Given what CSM has been told about Dust so far, there does not appear to be enough meat on the bones just yet to permit meaningful discussion about the EVE/Dust connection/interaction.

Besides which, CSM bandwidth is fully occupied with engaging quite proactively on more immediate concerns such as what remains broken in EVE, the lack of confidence-inspiring information about new features (e.g. Incarna) on the frighteningly near horizon, overall direction of the game, etc.

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2011.01.11 17:15:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Mynxee


If only there was a Dust table to elbow our way to.

When asked in October if CCP would implement CSM-like groups for Dust and WoD, they said "Maybe." When CCP indicates that they can or are willing to discuss with CSM precisely how Dust will connect to and influence EVE, then there will be a reason for the CSM to engage proactively. Given what CSM has been told about Dust so far, there does not appear to be enough meat on the bones just yet to permit meaningful discussion about the EVE/Dust connection/interaction.

Besides which, CSM bandwidth is fully occupied with engaging quite proactively on more immediate concerns such as what remains broken in EVE, the lack of confidence-inspiring information about new features (e.g. Incarna) on the frighteningly near horizon, overall direction of the game, etc.



Re-reading my late night post, I sense a bit of tired-induced snark. That snark really should have been directed at CCP. After seeing the demos and attending the discussions of Dust at FF2009, I was very excited at the potential that such an ambitious project proposed. A year+ later and reading your response, along with other bits and pieces, I feel like I am headed for increaseing disappointment.

Based on the response above, I'm led to believe that Dust is still in the planning stages and is still just an amorphous "good idea" someone has (had?). I feel like the tech demo at FF2009 was a sham, since "Given what CSM has been told about Dust so far, there does not appear to be enough meat on the bones just yet to permit meaningful discussion about the EVE/Dust connection/interaction." I fully grasp the importance of the bolder section, and given CCPs (like all other sw dev co's) need for secrecy I understand that they may be further along than they imply.

I just fear, as stated earlier that CCP will wait too long to bring a CSM-like entity on board and we'll be once again waiting 5-6 years to have the level of input we now have with EvE.

CCP makes clear their stance on "trust" based on the mechanics of EvE, so when they say "trust us, we'll let you know when we need you" I'm a little bit wary. [and yes, I understand the difference between "The Game" and RL]. (BTW, you just lost the game Smile )

But, since as stated in the minutes this is not an issue for the CSM or EvE Community to worry it's pretty little head about...I'll go back to the bits and scraps of Dust info that leaks out and leave this thread to EvE issues covered in the summit.

KB

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.01.11 19:31:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: KaarBaak
Re-reading my late night post, I sense a bit of tired-induced snark. That snark really should have been directed at CCP.
...
(BTW, you just lost the game Smile )


No worries. We all get a bit emotional about this game, don't we? Try caring so much and being on the CSM. ♥

Also...DAMN YOU!

Quicktime
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.01.11 21:19:00 - [70]
 

I hope this is the last time that you will break the notes up, have we learned that we can wait and get the whole picture all at once? Everyone seemed to have the same initial reaction to this news was the same as mine, what the F is the CSM doing talking about this crap when we have so many problems in the game?

Then find out that this is only a 1/3 of the notes. Just wait and send them all out at the same time, unless this was to gain 3 news notices for the game, since every time each section is released it will be in some website promoting eve. If this is the case release something interesting in each released section, this crap makes you guys look like your not doing the job.


Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.01.11 21:37:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Quicktime
I hope this is the last time that you will break the notes up, have we learned that we can wait and get the whole picture all at once? Everyone seemed to have the same initial reaction to this news was the same as mine, what the F is the CSM doing talking about this crap when we have so many problems in the game?

Then find out that this is only a 1/3 of the notes. Just wait and send them all out at the same time, unless this was to gain 3 news notices for the game, since every time each section is released it will be in some website promoting eve. If this is the case release something interesting in each released section, this crap makes you guys look like your not doing the job.




Not really.

Most of us actually read the Dev Blog and understood that this was part 1 of 3.

All I see is about 1/2 dozen people with egg on their faces that failed basic reading comprehension.

I like it broken out, it allows for more indepth discussion of each part, without smaller issues being drown out by the larger ones.

Well done CSM/CCP.

Oh, if you get rid of the booth babes I'm going to slap someone.

Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.01.11 23:45:00 - [72]
 

People who would say no to booth babes? Seriously? :P

Eve must be dying :(

Iraherag
Posted - 2011.01.12 08:07:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Iraherag on 12/01/2011 08:07:35
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Quicktime
I hope this is the last time that you will break the notes up, have we learned that we can wait and get the whole picture all at once? Everyone seemed to have the same initial reaction to this news was the same as mine, what the F is the CSM doing talking about this crap when we have so many problems in the game?

Then find out that this is only a 1/3 of the notes. Just wait and send them all out at the same time, unless this was to gain 3 news notices for the game, since every time each section is released it will be in some website promoting eve. If this is the case release something interesting in each released section, this crap makes you guys look like your not doing the job.




Not really.

Most of us actually read the Dev Blog and understood that this was part 1 of 3.

All I see is about 1/2 dozen people with egg on their faces that failed basic reading comprehension.

I like it broken out, it allows for more indepth discussion of each part, without smaller issues being drown out by the larger ones.

Well done CSM/CCP.

Oh, if you get rid of the booth babes I'm going to slap someone.



Yep, so glad this was broken down into 3 part.

I mean "Just look at this threadnaught!!1!11".
Had they added just one more topic to this part, the forums would have burst from the oh-so-indepth discussion...

"Biggest Forum Thread 2011" was right around the corner but this wise decision averted the disaster just in time.

Lord Matrix
Flying Banana Squad
Posted - 2011.01.12 09:33:00 - [74]
 

Like any other political entity, CSM seems to be more bothered with itself than making the game better and more enjoyable for the rest of us. The focus is supposed to be on the game, not CSM.

TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2011.01.12 12:20:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: TeaDaze on 12/01/2011 12:28:13
Originally by: Lord Matrix
Like any other political entity, CSM seems to be more bothered with itself than making the game better and more enjoyable for the rest of us. The focus is supposed to be on the game, not CSM.

The game discussions are in part 2 and 3 of these minutes (depending on how much CCP want to hide under NDA). It just happens that the sessions on the CSM specifically (which is a necessary evil if the CSM process is to evolve) were grouped in with the other community related sessions for part 1.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.12 20:26:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Iamien
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
If everyone was allowed to vote in each election, this would effectively double the power of large voting blocks; they would be more easily able to get multiple members on the CSM. Smaller constituencies would get squeezed out.


It also doubles voting power of small voting blocks.

That's just wrong...

Imagine you have one system where you're voting for 10 of 10 total seats and another where you vote for 2 of 10 total seats in 5 rounds. Ignore the timeshifting of the voting rounds, you can do the 5 votes simultaneously if you want.

Let's say you got one voting block of 25%, another of 20% and the rest range from 15% and lower. Now in the former system the two largest blocks would control 4 of 10 seats after one voting round.

In the latter system with 5 rounds of voting, the two largest blocks would get 2 of 2 seats per round for a total of 10 of 10 seats. Just imagine the difference between continental european democracies versus american 'democracy'.

While the above is an extreme case, it does showcase the game theory involved.

XenosisReaper
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.01.12 21:57:00 - [77]
 

The suggestion by CCP that CSM members not be able to drink alcohol while “on duty” at FanFest was
not well received

I bet it wasn't.YARRRR!!

Jahadeen Jinka
Posted - 2011.01.14 09:37:00 - [78]
 

I wonder if it has been thought of that the possible permanent ability to donate PLEX to charity kind of enables organized RMT? In other words, I could get a few friends together and play EVE with the goal of maximizing the money we make for our favourite charity?

I originally posted on this in the Features and Ideas Discussion forum yesterday, with the following words (and got no comments there):

Originally by: Jahadeen Jinka
A possible upcoming feature is the permanent ability to donate PLEX to at least some charities. This opens the door to something that looks a lot like RMT, namely that supporters of a charity could in an organized manner play EVE with the whole purpose of making money for their favourite charity.

How would CCP feel about such activity? Would they want to disallow it or not? If they'd want to disallow it, would an addition have to be made to the EULA? (With my cursory look, I did not find anything that would disallow such activity.)

Personally, I am IRL a rather committed regular donor to a certain charity, and have a lot of contacts to similar people. If I was allowed to play EVE to make money for my favourite charity, I would seriously consider setting up a corp for just that purpose, and then try to recruit some of the IRL people I know who might be interested (yes, many of them are also gamers).

mkmin
Posted - 2011.01.14 09:49:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Jahadeen Jinka
I wonder if it has been thought of that the possible permanent ability to donate PLEX to charity kind of enables organized RMT? In other words, I could get a few friends together and play EVE with the goal of maximizing the money we make for our favourite charity?

I originally posted on this in the Features and Ideas Discussion forum yesterday, with the following words (and got no comments there):

Originally by: Jahadeen Jinka
A possible upcoming feature is the permanent ability to donate PLEX to at least some charities. This opens the door to something that looks a lot like RMT, namely that supporters of a charity could in an organized manner play EVE with the whole purpose of making money for their favourite charity.

How would CCP feel about such activity? Would they want to disallow it or not? If they'd want to disallow it, would an addition have to be made to the EULA? (With my cursory look, I did not find anything that would disallow such activity.)

Personally, I am IRL a rather committed regular donor to a certain charity, and have a lot of contacts to similar people. If I was allowed to play EVE to make money for my favourite charity, I would seriously consider setting up a corp for just that purpose, and then try to recruit some of the IRL people I know who might be interested (yes, many of them are also gamers).



Read the minutes again. They were pretty clear they weren't going to be managing dozens of different charities, just 1 or 2. Probably all go to red cross or one of the other big institutions. Your concerns are completely groundless.

Jahadeen Jinka
Posted - 2011.01.14 10:09:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: mkmin
Read the minutes again. They were pretty clear they weren't going to be managing dozens of different charities, just 1 or 2. Probably all go to red cross or one of the other big institutions. Your concerns are completely groundless.

That assumes it's not one of the big institutions that's my or somebody else's favourite Wink

But yes, in reality it isn't one of the biggest institutions that I support... Still, there was nothing in the minutes that would have made it sure that they'd only pick the biggest to be the relatively few that are chosen. Another option is that they'd also like to include a few organizations that "charity rating agencies" consider a lot better than the biggies... And in this case, it isn't out of the question that my favourite ends up on the list.

(By "charity rating agencies", I mean outfits such as this: http://www.givewell.org/ )

Jahadeen Jinka
Posted - 2011.01.14 10:14:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Jahadeen Jinka on 14/01/2011 10:26:38

Also, there is the separate issue that *no matter what* charities are chosen, it's theoretically possible for RMTers to find one rich guy somewhere who likes to give a lot to that particular charity, and offer said rich guy the following deal:

"We will give $100k to your favourite charity if you give $90k to us."

EDIT: Not that I'm sure that CCP would even object to this, since at least the money was going through the PLEX system then. And also give them good PR in that they could say that the EVE community is very generous.

XenosisReaper
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.02.04 11:09:00 - [82]
 

Bamp


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