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Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
Posted - 2011.01.10 19:12:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Master Akira
I was promised Rage and Drama. I found none on this part.

Hope the other two are "better" Laughing


Three courses: Salad, Steak, Dessert. All accompanied by a selection of fine whines.



I have never liked salad.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.01.10 19:40:00 - [32]
 

  • CSM Processes tools and evaluation.
    CSM and EVE Websites.
    CSM Issues.
    CSM Activities at Fanfest.


27 hours of the CSM talking to CCP about....the CSM? May I suggest we rename the CSM "Team Ouroboros"?

C.






Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2011.01.10 19:45:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Skippermonkey
27 hours of discussion and you covered the following topics:

You need better websites
You want to set up a charity
You decided that the CSM isnt about us telling you what we want, its actually another method of us telling you what we think of what you did instead
You agreed to NOT have sexy booth babes at Fanfest (Sad)
You agrees that beer is expensive at Fanfest

At what point did you talk about the actual game?

Game-related discussion has been postponed for 18 months due to lack of developer resources.

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.01.10 19:50:00 - [34]
 

I really shouldnt have to mention this (as it is clearly stated in the devblog), but

This is only part 1 of 3 of the minutes

We did not spend 3 days discussing what you read here (in fact, this is roughly one day worth of discussions). The rest - with a notably more gameplay heavy theme - will come in the following days :)

Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Posted - 2011.01.10 20:15:00 - [35]
 

TBH the DevBlog is pretty ascetic...

Mentioning that we are getting Part 1 of 3 does not give us very good idea what are the remaining topics in Part 2 & Part 3.

Also, having in mind the "aerodynamic style" of Part 1, I am afraid that Part 2 & Part 3 will be heavily NDA-blurred as well...Sad

Just for a reference - CSM5 June 2010 Summit Minutes

One big difference - The June 2010 minutes contain lots of specific questions / suggestions AND ACTION POINTS

P.S. The rate of interesting DevBlogs has fallen in the recent weeks, probably due to the Holidays, probably due to the soon-to-be-hit deadlines...Who knows? CSM or CCP? ugh

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
I really shouldnt have to mention this (as it is clearly stated in the devblog), but

This is only part 1 of 3 of the minutes

We did not spend 3 days discussing what you read here (in fact, this is roughly one day worth of discussions). The rest - with a notably more gameplay heavy theme - will come in the following days :)

Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.01.10 21:04:00 - [36]
 

And heres some stuff from outsider perspective :D

Lots of noteworthy stuff here Twisted Evil:
Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Sorry I ruined the suspense Laughing

Excerpts:

Quote:
Conversation moved on to the topic which is currently being discussed quite widely in the community, botting and RMT. Whilst there was not alot of in depth information with regards to combating these discussed, it was noted that bounty input into the economy has been increasing steadily since ‘Unholy Rage’ which has increased the money supply. There has been a marked decrease in belt ratting which means that the bounties must be coming from elsewhere. This may be explained by the sovereignty upgrade system introduced with Dominion increasing the number and value of deadspace complexes which spawn in a system. Leading those participating in 0.0 PvE to run these rather than rat in belts. Whether or not this is related to botting is unclear.


It does and I smell a rework of the sovereignty upgrade system... at least the rewards it gives, more and better salvage maybe (more intact stuff to make t2 rigs affordable).

Quote:
Many players will be glad to hear that there is a new font in the works, and whil it was difficult to tell from the big screen in the meeting room, there was a distinct improvement over the old font. The CSM did suggest that zero be given a diagonal slash though, in order to further differentiate it from D and O.


Random quote I know, but something players have been asking for.

Quote:
The 0.0 game of EVE is seen by many as what make EVE what it is, and since Dominion it has become increasingly homogenized. Victory is determined by sheer weight of numbers rather than tactical and strategic brilliance. Dominion was supposed to place limits on the amount of space an alliance and provide opportunities for smaller corporations and alliances to gain a foothold on the frontiers. Neither of these have been the case. Dominion failed.


Yes it did, it failed horribly.

Quote:
A variety of possible solutions to these issues were discussed, and the proliferation of supercaps was probably the on that drew the most attention. It was concluded that makeing them weaker through a straight nerf of their combat capabilities was not a solution as this would simply lead to larger numbers being fielded. A variety of ideas were put forward which would make them harder to move around, the most promising of which was a ‘Cyno Spooling’ time. Basically the idea is this: Cyno pilot drops a cyno in the destination system and depending on the distance from the departure system it takes a certain time to either get the cyno field up to the required strength or for the capital ships jump drives to get up to speed to make the jump. This time would increase with distance and the cyno would need to be defended during this period. This would limit the ability of Super-Capital (and Capital) fleets to hotdrop on targets with no warning from half the galazy away, it would also mean that a Capital fleet would not be able to cross the entire galaxy in about 20 minutes.


Decent idea, I support this product and/or service.


Shepard Book
Posted - 2011.01.10 21:28:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Question Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be thereExclamation

Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
Posted - 2011.01.10 21:45:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 21:46:02
Originally by: Shepard Book
Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Question Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be thereExclamation


Not really. It will least effect 0.0.

You can only settle a planet if your alliance holds sov of system. Hiring Mercs in 0.0 will be hiring mercs against your corp/ally mates. Great game design eh?

Archestratidas
Posted - 2011.01.10 21:51:00 - [39]
 

1) a setting such that portraits never load on the local member list (even when you right click->show info);

2) make the player/corp show info screens *never* default to the standings tab, as this causes clients to lag for 1-15 seconds while all the standings crap is loaded when the client arbitrarily decides to open up the Show Info page with the standings tab open.

I don't suppose these were discussed as possibilities?

Ze'ev Sinraali
Ataraxia Pharmacies
Posted - 2011.01.10 21:57:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 10/01/2011 18:49:28
"apparently the cost of explaining to the Icelandic Tax Vikings"

Laughing

"a single player (who requested anonymity) donated over 240 PLEX in a single contribution"

Shocked

Good job on the charity stuff - definitely the most important thing discussed. And I'm being serious. RL > Eve.

-Liang

Ed: And let me donate any time. :)


Agreed. It's a highly worthy effort, and I look forward to its implementation.

Also, regarding Tax Vikings...any chance you'd be willing to export some to the US?

Jita mcheck
Posted - 2011.01.10 22:08:00 - [41]
 

Quote:
The idea of booth babes (pretty girls dressed up in EVE costumes, handing out stuff) was discouraged by the CSM.


Shockedthen Sad
Boo erns

Shepard Book
Posted - 2011.01.10 22:27:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Iamien
Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 21:46:02
Originally by: Shepard Book
Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Question Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be thereExclamation


Not really. It will least effect 0.0.

You can only settle a planet if your alliance holds sov of system. Hiring Mercs in 0.0 will be hiring mercs against your corp/ally mates. Great game design eh?


It has the potential to be a great game design. Time will tell. Anything that could have such a big impact on Eve should be there. A good portion of Eve players will be playing both. There are enough players that the CSM should listen. I would not mind seeing the Wolfpack there too. WOD info anyone? There better be plenty of info on Dust, Incarna, and the following expansion. Do it now!!!

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.10 22:39:00 - [43]
 

Quote:
The idea of booth babes (pretty girls dressed up in EVE costumes, handing out stuff) was discouraged by the CSM.


The deployment of “Summer Glau Instant Virgin Detectors™” will only serve to remind everyone of how lame we really are.

Andrev Nox
SOMER Blink
Cognitive Development
Posted - 2011.01.10 22:40:00 - [44]
 

Three thematic launches, got it - but what was the theme of this one? "Smalltalk?"

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.01.10 22:43:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Shepard Book
Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Question Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be thereExclamation


Considering the CSM does not provide feedback or comments regarding DUST, and that it does not appear CCP has sorted out exactly what the connection between EVE and DUST will be (see October minutes), I respectfully disagree.

Seraphina Good
Posted - 2011.01.10 22:46:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
I really shouldnt have to mention this (as it is clearly stated in the devblog), but

This is only part 1 of 3 of the minutes

We did not spend 3 days discussing what you read here (in fact, this is roughly one day worth of discussions). The rest - with a notably more gameplay heavy theme - will come in the following days :)


What some of the people in this forum need to do is allot some of those unused skillpoints to Reading Comprehension I. Rolling Eyes

Shepard Book
Posted - 2011.01.10 22:53:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Shepard Book
Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Question Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be thereExclamation


Considering the CSM does not provide feedback or comments regarding DUST, and that it does not appear CCP has sorted out exactly what the connection between EVE and DUST will be (see October minutes), I respectfully disagree.



They still have time to get it done. Cheers

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.10 23:08:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Elzon1
And heres some stuff from outsider perspective :D

Lots of noteworthy stuff here Twisted Evil:
Part 1

Part 2

Part 3




These are all really great ideas about changing 0.0. Simply allowing people to sign non-aggression "usage" treaties if they enter a system for the first time would really blow 0.0 out of the water, causing many solo pilots to make the plunge. Also, doing something to increase the number of routes to 0.0, and I like the idea of "convoys" and supply lines. It really reminds me of the old west, and actual warfare, where supply lines are a huge tactical part. Also for trade and other economic things.

I love the idea about "locking down" carriers and titans, allowing them to act as mini-bases.

I really love all these ideas actually, and I'm really excited to know there's a dedicated special effects developer, and they now have a new font!! I can't wait to play EVE on my 50" television in my livingroom! Very Happy

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.10 23:11:00 - [49]
 

Well, I'm a big fan of new forums. To keep the discussion in this thread on track, I won't comment on any of the other stuff posted until we get a comments thread of those meeting minutes.

Estimated Prophet
Ye Olde Curiosity Shoppe and Trading Company
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.01.11 00:34:00 - [50]
 

Quote:
The CSM expressed concern about continuity within the CSM about processes, methods, information and other things that are generally inherited by members going between CSMs. CCP revealed that the exact same concerns had been voiced within CCP, and thus the CSM would get the project of creating a continuity document for the next CSM in order to make the transition as smooth as possible.


One option is to rotate out only half the CSM with each election. This would mean having elections twice as often (for only half the positions), but gives overlap between successive CSMs.

Viqer Fell
Minmatar
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.01.11 00:38:00 - [51]
 

Quote "The idea of booth babes (pretty girls dressed up in EVE costumes, handing out stuff) was discouraged by the CSM."

Are you ****ing ****ting me? That better be some sort of troll joke ;)

Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.01.11 00:47:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Estimated Prophet
Quote:
The CSM expressed concern about continuity within the CSM about processes, methods, information and other things that are generally inherited by members going between CSMs. CCP revealed that the exact same concerns had been voiced within CCP, and thus the CSM would get the project of creating a continuity document for the next CSM in order to make the transition as smooth as possible.


One option is to rotate out only half the CSM with each election. This would mean having elections twice as often (for only half the positions), but gives overlap between successive CSMs.


This is done in Australian parliaments. It does work as intended. Cool

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.11 00:55:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Estimated Prophet
One option is to rotate out only half the CSM with each election. This would mean having elections twice as often (for only half the positions), but gives overlap between successive CSMs.


If everyone was allowed to vote in each election, this would effectively double the power of large voting blocks; they would be more easily able to get multiple members on the CSM. Smaller constituencies would get squeezed out.

Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
Posted - 2011.01.11 01:01:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Iamien on 11/01/2011 01:04:51
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Estimated Prophet
One option is to rotate out only half the CSM with each election. This would mean having elections twice as often (for only half the positions), but gives overlap between successive CSMs.


If everyone was allowed to vote in each election, this would effectively double the power of large voting blocks; they would be more easily able to get multiple members on the CSM. Smaller constituencies would get squeezed out.


It also doubles voting power of small voting blocks.

Another alternative is to give the Chair of each particular CSM a guaranteed slot on the following CSM(not necessarily as chair). Will result that there will always be at least one person on the CSM that was on the previous one.

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.01.11 02:31:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Iamien
Why did we get the last third of the minutes first? Let's try chronological order.


That would require waiting until Friday, and releasing everything in one chunk. So instead, we decided on thematic groupings (this one is "Community Issues"), which will also make it easier for interested devs to monitor the threads, since instead of one general thread there will be three more specific ones.


This makes a fair bit of sense. That said I found these notes reasonably dry and not of a lot of relevance. I would prefer seeing everything at once, even if it was broken into 3 pieces and posted at the same time. Outside of midly toubling "...and while the CSM is generally in favor of the idea of blatant vote-buying at FanFest..." I saw nothing worth the time spent reading, at least as a non-CSM Eve player.

As some one stated above it was more about housekeeping rather then anything that the player base is looking for from the CSM. TBH, why should I care how the CSM is represented at Fanfest? I (nor most of the player base) will be there and as stated the CSM can't give out more info they they do because of the NDA so it's not like a CSM panel video on Youtube is gonna be worth watching. So why is this important? More sound proofing for meeting rooms? How does this apply to game play in Eve? Seems that the Fanfest stuff was outside of the purview of the CSM so not sure why time was even wasted on that. I would suggest CCP hand out a satisfaction survey to FanFest participants at the end of Fanfest, it would be a better use of resources. Have a Booth Girl hand them out. Gotta keep the hot chicks employed some how!

Anyway, thanks for the effort. I'll be waiting for the meaty part. It always fun to watch how badly players can spin some random mole hill into a mountain.


Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.11 02:52:00 - [56]
 

Okay, firstly, the devblog title should have the words "Part 1 of 3" in it.

Secondly, the sentence "The other two sections will be released within the next week." should be bolded.

I just saw "meeting minutes", skimmed for the download link, read, and was then disappointed at the lack of substance. It wasn't until I clicked the comments thread that I realised that they really were lacking in content.

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2011.01.11 03:27:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Shepard Book
Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Question Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be thereExclamation


Considering the CSM does not provide feedback or comments regarding DUST, and that it does not appear CCP has sorted out exactly what the connection between EVE and DUST will be (see October minutes), I respectfully disagree.



Shouldn't we (you) be elbowing your way to the table in order to start giving feedback and comments before something dreadful happens and reacting to it? Wouldn't it be fun to be just a little bit pro-active for once?

KB

Noun Verber
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.11 03:33:00 - [58]
 

On the forums:
Why a 'like' feature instead of the ability to rate posts as useful or trash (+1/-1)?

Has planning taken place for the sudden rush of new avatars that will be needed for the forums and the method for updating portraits used (will the temporary low quality pictures become immediately usable by the forums, or will everyone become blank?)

Fanfest:
The limited capacity meetings seem like a good idea

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.01.11 05:11:00 - [59]
 

"The UI discussion them moved on to look at the proposals brought up by the CSM in October. Of the 75 items on the list over half are either done or in progress and only 6 were turned down completely. The rest were flagged as being tricky, time intensive and/or had questions raised about whether they were worth doing."

I am really curious which 6 were turned down completely.


Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.01.11 05:22:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Ashina Sito
*snip*
As some one stated above it was more about housekeeping rather then anything that the player base is looking for from the CSM. TBH, why should I care how the CSM is represented at Fanfest?

Did you ever look at the FF videos and followed the roundtable/panel discussions?
With those minutes there is a more complete picture now about what and how things are being organized over there. And people joining/leaving the room all the time cause there are other panels/etc going on is quite disturbing.

Originally by: Ashina Sito
I (nor most of the player base) will be there and as stated the CSM can't give out more info they they do because of the NDA so it's not like a CSM panel video on Youtube is gonna be worth watching. So why is this important? More sound proofing for meeting rooms? How does this apply to game play in Eve?

Did you ever try to understand what some of the questions or answers had been in a roundtable/panel discussion on those FF videos?
I'm all for better soundquality.

Originally by: Ashina Sito
Seems that the Fanfest stuff was outside of the purview of the CSM so not sure why time was even wasted on that. I would suggest CCP hand out a satisfaction survey to FanFest participants at the end of Fanfest, it would be a better use of resources. Have a Booth Girl hand them out. Gotta keep the hot chicks employed some how!

They already hand out surveys.


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