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Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.01.11 13:14:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Khoni Honsu
I for one have left Eve with my 4 subscribed accounts and intend to never ever return
Stuff?

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2011.01.11 13:32:00 - [182]
 

The fact IS that if you reed this whole forum even an 10years old kid understands this:

Tread1 - low sucks
Thread2 -0.0sucks
Tread3 - omgpwnlol botters
Thread4- lol gank
Thread5- can't peeveepee, ships 2expensive
Thread6-blobs omfg get them out
Thread7-capitals overpowerd

Plenty like this Wink

Is this your exceptional perfect world? Laughing

Archbeholder
Posted - 2011.01.11 13:53:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Joss56

Is this your exceptional perfect world? Laughing

Dude, it's SANDBOX!!!111
So its totally ok Laughing

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2011.01.11 13:55:00 - [184]
 

Stats or STHU etc

Skunk

Tornan
Minmatar
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.01.11 14:00:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Archbeholder
Ok let's say we lose those 50% of 300k(wikipedia to the rescue) and instead gain 500k more or so. 800k>300k ?
And that's just it — it wouldn't gain 500k more because those people wouldn't leave their current game just to come to another game that is just like it. This has already been tried by the numerous different-world MMOs that have been launched the last couple of years. They all failed exactly because they tried to attract those 500k you're talking about by being the kind of game they supposedly liked…

The reason EVE has survived is exactly because it doesn't go for that same-as-everone-else market, but rather for the ones that want a game like EVE. So why would they want to be like everyone else, when that would only mean they lose the ones they've already attracted and most likely won't attract anyone else (since they already have so much to choose from).
Quote:
Not to mention getting rid of those who enjoy/accept scamming griefing is always good for business.
Not if your business is to make money from people who enjoy/accept scamming.


agree completly

Gillaboo
Posted - 2011.01.11 14:54:00 - [186]
 

Well, OP, it's like this. In EVE, players actually have to spend more than 30 seconds learning "how" to do something. Most can't even spell the word "tutorial", and sadly, with the brain trust of a guppy, they mostly go catatonic at the thought of even attempting the Tutorials no matter how much "dumbing down" CCP has given the Tutorials over the years. Surely you've seen the endless requests in the noob channels for help on even the simplest issues, with priceless classics like "How do I undock?" being in the All-Time Top 3. It's just too much effort for alot of the younger players -- which is great because they can cheerfully wander back to daycare in WoW and never come back.

Hope that helps.

Malema
Posted - 2011.01.11 14:58:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Edited by: Malcanis on 11/01/2011 10:14:57
Originally by: Malema
Edited by: Malema on 11/01/2011 06:58:01
Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there.




Wait what? Level 5s? plexing? W-space?

Ohhhh... you mean they can't progress in risk free PvE. Gotcha.


I'm not sure why you're getting mad with me mate . They hit the Level 4 High Sec glass ceiling , try some of the alternatives and get bored/frustrated and leave. I know the concept of friends in real life is foreign to you , but these are people (CA,2xLawyers,IT Professional) I hang out with in real life that have left the game so can attest to what happens.

Oddly enough my mates who started off as miners are still playing the game , though they're all in T2/T3 invention/production or trading now. As strange as it sounds , mining has given them a longer hangtime in the game than missioning.



Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.11 15:00:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Minermemememe
you dont but I think CCP has a different opinion
CCP has seen a constant increase in subscriptions for the last 7 years. They're not complaining.


Yes, they are. Follow them on whatever social networking site you use. No only are they complaining but at one point recently they were just about panicked.

The irony is that EvE does have a terrible retention rate and the OP IS a troll.

MoonDragn
Caldari
J0urneys End
Posted - 2011.01.11 15:27:00 - [189]
 

Edited by: MoonDragn on 11/01/2011 15:29:00
Originally by: Archbeholder
Originally by: Joss56

Is this your exceptional perfect world? Laughing

Dude, it's SANDBOX!!!111
So its totally ok Laughing


Would have been perfectly ok except the game was skewed towards the pirates, who as you well know, got a bit of help from the Devs. If the game had been left alone hands off without any intervention it may have had more subs. Some of us old timers got disgrunted with the ninja changes after game release and quit. Case in point, just a few weeks after release, all of the ore in the universe got switched around. So if you had already settled your corp somewhere strategic for ore mining, you were screwed. Yes back then some of us carebears were in 0.0 space a lot until those changes came about.

That said, they have made significant changes to the game and the newbie experience has improved. Used to be you had to mine for hours and hours before you could get out of your newbie ship.


Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2011.01.11 16:33:00 - [190]
 

Personally, I think that "hardcore Mega-PvPers" and "Uber-Carebears" are missing the point of the game all-together...EVE is a buffet of things to do PvP, PvE, Mining(shudders), Industry, Piracy, FW, War-decs, Politics, etc...the list goes on, telling someone "you suck because you don't play EVE the way "I" think it should be played" or "EVE sucks because it doesn't cater to all of my "perfect" desires" makes those who say it the biggest "L"...losers of all. My advice, do all that EVE offers and HTFU.


Archbeholder
Posted - 2011.01.11 16:39:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Syn Callibri
telling someone "you suck because you don't play EVE the way "I" think it should be played" or "EVE sucks because it doesn't cater to all of my "perfect" desires" makes those who say it the biggest "L"...losers of all.


Originally by: Syn Callibri

My advice, do all that EVE offers and HTFU.



That makes you the biggest loser then. Shocked

Goose99
Posted - 2011.01.11 16:41:00 - [192]
 

Edited by: Goose99 on 11/01/2011 16:47:30
Edited by: Goose99 on 11/01/2011 16:42:50
Originally by: Tornan
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Archbeholder
Ok let's say we lose those 50% of 300k(wikipedia to the rescue) and instead gain 500k more or so. 800k>300k ?
And that's just it — it wouldn't gain 500k more because those people wouldn't leave their current game just to come to another game that is just like it. This has already been tried by the numerous different-world MMOs that have been launched the last couple of years. They all failed exactly because they tried to attract those 500k you're talking about by being the kind of game they supposedly liked…

The reason EVE has survived is exactly because it doesn't go for that same-as-everone-else market, but rather for the ones that want a game like EVE. So why would they want to be like everyone else, when that would only mean they lose the ones they've already attracted and most likely won't attract anyone else (since they already have so much to choose from).
Quote:
Not to mention getting rid of those who enjoy/accept scamming griefing is always good for business.
Not if your business is to make money from people who enjoy/accept scamming.


agree completly


It's a net loss if one griefer makes more than one carebear end subscription. It's often a ratio of one to a few hundred, meaning those "people" your business makes money from will have to pay a subscription hundreds of times the sum for you to pull even. Eve is the only mmo like this for very good reasons. There is a price to be paid for going against conventional business practices, one that no other for-profit company is stupid enough to pay.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.01.11 16:44:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: Malema
Edited by: Malema on 11/01/2011 06:58:01
Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there.



But that is where the end game starts. And the end game in EVE isn't risk free Hello Kitty Online I'm afraid.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.01.11 16:52:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Malema
Edited by: Malema on 11/01/2011 06:58:01
Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there.



But that is where the end game starts. And the end game in EVE isn't risk free Hello Kitty Online I'm afraid.


Also a reason why the average subscription age for eve player that made it past trial is 6 month. That is with the 7 years old vets averaged in. How long do you think it takes to train up to run lvl4s effectively? Again, going against conventional business practices. Kudos to CCP for going against good business sense, but the price is paid in cash. When CCP gets more competition someday and has trouble paying bills, they'll change eve into a more profitable game.

Archbeholder
Posted - 2011.01.11 17:08:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Goose99

It's a net loss if one griefer makes more than one carebear end subscription. It's often a ratio of one to a few hundred, meaning those "people" your business makes money from will have to pay a subscription hundreds of times the sum for you to pull even. Eve is the only mmo like this for very good reasons. There is a price to be paid for going against conventional business practices, one that no other for-profit company is stupid enough to pay.


I agree with every word. It almost seem that guy on top of CCP doesn't need money and is in charge simply for the kicks. As much as people blame bobby kotick and the likes, they know how to appease crowd.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.11 17:10:00 - [196]
 

Edited by: Selinate on 11/01/2011 17:10:24
Originally by: Joss56
The fact IS that if you reed this whole forum even an 10years old kid understands this:

Tread1 - low sucks
Thread2 -0.0sucks
Tread3 - omgpwnlol botters
Thread4- lol gank
Thread5- can't peeveepee, ships 2expensive
Thread6-blobs omfg get them out
Thread7-capitals overpowerd

Plenty like this Wink

Is this your exceptional perfect world? Laughing

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

^^^fixing Eve players' delusion of superiority to other MMO gamers, one reply at a time

Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.01.11 17:18:00 - [197]
 

Quote:
Also, aside from the grind design, the real reason why subs never go into the wow numbers is because unlike other MMOs out there, this once actually caters to griefers. I guessed whoever design this thing think its fun to throw level 1 guys in an arena with level 85s. lol.


Find it amusing that he's using an alt to avoid griefers.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.01.11 17:22:00 - [198]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 11/01/2011 17:36:45
Originally by: Goose99
Eve is the only mmo like this
…and that's why it shouldn't and doesn't need to change.
Quote:
Also a reason why the average subscription age for eve player that made it past trial is 6 month. That is with the 7 years old vets averaged in.
On the other hand, the retention rate for people who have lasted 9 months is through the roof.
Quote:
How long do you think it takes to train up to run lvl4s effectively?
Oh, about 5 months… It took me 6 months because I took a detour over getting a Hulk.

Minsc
Gallente
Alpha Empire
Posted - 2011.01.11 17:27:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Malema
Edited by: Malema on 11/01/2011 06:58:01
Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there.



But that is where the end game starts. And the end game in EVE isn't risk free Hello Kitty Online I'm afraid.


Also a reason why the average subscription age for eve player that made it past trial is 6 month. That is with the 7 years old vets averaged in. How long do you think it takes to train up to run lvl4s effectively? Again, going against conventional business practices. Kudos to CCP for going against good business sense, but the price is paid in cash. When CCP gets more competition someday and has trouble paying bills, they'll change eve into a more profitable game.


You do realize that 6 month retention is actually a lot higher than the majority of MMO's out there right? Also it takes about 3 months or less now that the learning skills are gone to be able to run lvl 4's effectively. Efficiently is of course going to take longer.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.01.11 17:34:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Also a reason why the average subscription age for eve player that made it past trial is 6 month. That is with the 7 years old vets averaged in. How long do you think it takes to train up to run lvl4s effectively? Again, going against conventional business practices. Kudos to CCP for going against good business sense, but the price is paid in cash. When CCP gets more competition someday and has trouble paying bills, they'll change eve into a more profitable game.

That is a bit incorrect, the people I play with have been in game between 1 to 7.5 years, I will reach 5 myself next month. The people who can handle the harsh first few months will stay for years, the rest will became one less character name to use.

The problem is that people with a WOW mentality are scared ****less of PVP with a death penalty, like OMG your ship might actually turn into a pretty explosion and your pod could go squish. I had my first PVP kill when I was 3 months old. Got podded for the first time a month later. I didn't do my first level 4 mission until a few years later because missions are bloody boring; Warp in, orbit, lock, F1, F1, F1, F1, F1, lock, F1, F1, reload, F1, F1, F1, warp to station. So no I have no idea how long it takes to be able to do missions, I would guess 30d to fly a Drake with a good enough tank and gank.

I'm glad CCP have no plans on making EVE WOW in space, because that day EVE truly will die. It's funny how everyone said Star Trek Online would kill EVE, last I heard they are considering going F2P...

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.11 17:47:00 - [201]
 

I don't normally do this but this thread stemmed from a misinformed victim of marketing, the OP is a drama queen and many people have no idea what they are going on about.

I've worked within MMO industry and with actually knowing something about the market, 350K subs is pretty good. Concurrency of 50,000 is pretty good, even 30,000 is pretty good. EVE already is a killer MMO in both content and subscribers.

Its not WOW sized but then only WOW is WOW sized (apart from the fact Lineage 2 has in the past had more players at 16m with a total franchise of near 58m accounts over both games and its entire lifespan). If you look at other AAA MMO's, they have similar subscribers and concurrencies to EVE. WOW is a just an oddity and no one else has replicated and maintained such success (although NCsoft did in there own way do better in Asia).

If you actually know anyone at CCP, you'll know they are ticking over just fine. CCP ain't hurting for cash and EVE isn't dying. Nor are CCP desperate for new player retention other than those needed to maintain enough growth to meet there forcasts.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.11 17:54:00 - [202]
 

Nobody here wants WoW in space. This is quite clear in this community.

That aside, EvE has some pretty major obsticles for new players which can only be rectified by a *LOT* of reading, or by some senior player taking you under their wing for a good long time.

I took the LOT of reading approach because I didn't know a single person who played, and those I met initially were jerkwad griefers intent on spoiling my first few weeks in the game. Eventually, I found a corp by getting to know the regulars in the system I had chosen as my home system. This took a couple months. I persevered because I thought the game concept was cool. Now I know how to avoid the gameplay aspects I don't enjoy.

The net result of this ramble is that in EvE, you are only going to find long term players who really want to be here. I do think the game attracts a lot of sociopths that the community could do well without, and that fanbois defend these kinds of people a little too rabbidly, but hey you can't have eveything.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.01.11 18:00:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler
I don't normally do this but this thread stemmed from a misinformed victim of marketing, the OP is a drama queen and many people have no idea what they are going on about.

I've worked within MMO industry and with actually knowing something about the market, 350K subs is pretty good. Concurrency of 50,000 is pretty good, even 30,000 is pretty good. EVE already is a killer MMO in both content and subscribers.

Its not WOW sized but then only WOW is WOW sized (apart from the fact Lineage 2 has in the past had more players at 16m with a total franchise of near 58m accounts over both games and its entire lifespan). If you look at other AAA MMO's, they have similar subscribers and concurrencies to EVE. WOW is a just an oddity and no one else has replicated and maintained such success (although NCsoft did in there own way do better in Asia).

If you actually know anyone at CCP, you'll know they are ticking over just fine. CCP ain't hurting for cash and EVE isn't dying. Nor are CCP desperate for new player retention other than those needed to maintain enough growth to meet there forcasts.


Of course CCP is doing okay, that's why they can afford to maintain eve in it's current state. It doesn't change the fact that grievers are costing them a lot of costumers, just that right now, they can afford to lose costumers. Only when real competition pops up will Eve start to struggle and possibly change. Jumpgate Evolutions had some promise, but was put on hiatus.

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2011.01.11 18:03:00 - [204]
 

Edited by: Syn Callibri on 11/01/2011 18:04:42
Originally by: Archbeholder
Originally by: Syn Callibri
telling someone "you suck because you don't play EVE the way "I" think it should be played" or "EVE sucks because it doesn't cater to all of my "perfect" desires" makes those who say it the biggest "L"...losers of all.


Originally by: Syn Callibri

My advice, do all that EVE offers and HTFU.



That makes you the biggest loser then. Shocked


LOLZ....posting with your 19 day old FORUMTROLL ALT I see. Laughing





Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.11 18:07:00 - [205]
 

Edited by: Ana Vyr on 11/01/2011 18:07:48
Originally by: Goose99
Of course CCP is doing okay, that's why they can afford to maintain eve in it's current state. It doesn't change the fact that grievers are costing them a lot of costumers, just that right now, they can afford to lose costumers. Only when real competition pops up will Eve start to struggle and possibly change. Jumpgate Evolutions had some promise, but was put on hiatus.


Isn't it also true though that by allowing "grief" play, they are gaining customers who like that style of gaming? You have to admit, there's a lot of folks who love that kind of stuff.

VaMei
Posted - 2011.01.11 18:11:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
The problem is that people with a WOW mentality are scared ****less of PVP with a death penalty, like OMG your ship might actually turn into a pretty explosion and your pod could go squish. I had my first PVP kill when I was 3 months old. Got podded for the first time a month later.


I still think that part of the New Player Experience should be getting your butt kicked; ship loss, pod loss, whole nine yards. Players coming from WoW and other games like it are stuck in the mentality of how long and hard they worked to get their shiny purple toys, and the idea of loosing those toys is the same as starting over.

If the 1st thing new players get is a lesson in the 3 rules of EvE, then the idea of getting blown up in EvE will be a lost less scary for them.

1. Never fly what you can't afford to replace.
2. Never fly what you can't afford to replace.
3. If you're following rule 1 and rule 2, anything lost can be replaced.

Archbeholder
Posted - 2011.01.11 18:11:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
It's funny how everyone said Star Trek Online would kill EVE, last I heard they are considering going F2P...

The reason that most people didn't leave eve for sto is because sto is closer to the classic mmos with orcs&elves&dragons rather than starships.
And even the upcoming star wars old republic will be focused on characters rather than starships so its all fine, CCP dont have to worry Very Happy

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.11 18:21:00 - [208]
 

Edited by: baltec1 on 11/01/2011 18:22:21
Originally by: Archbeholder
Edited by: Archbeholder on 11/01/2011 11:40:54
Originally by: baltec1
As for WOW, you get a lot of go here, pick me 10 flowers, deliver here, go kill 10 critters, deliver meat to the cook, take my sammich to the pub landlord, go wipe out this camp of bandits who stole my glass of beer ect ect.

EVE pve does feel more civilised ill give you that.


Does THIS look like picking 10 flowers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLZJRHClFvU


It looks like one of the thousands of boss fights that are in every single ground based MMO. It is the sort of thing I hate.

Nora Skuld
Posted - 2011.01.11 20:16:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: Ana Vyr
Isn't it also true though that by allowing "grief" play, they are gaining customers who like that style of gaming? You have to admit, there's a lot of folks who love that kind of stuff.


Of course. Another popular internet activity is forum trolling and acting like a jerk just because you can.

I initially thought that the so called harshness of EvE Online came from its very competitive gameplay. You want to reap the greatest rewards? You'll have to work for it, fight for it... and you might fail. But it seems, to some people, that what makes EvE so lolawesome is that you can get killed at any time, for any reason, even if you're no threat, even if you mind your own business and don't compete with anyone on any field. OooooOOooOooh isn't it exciting?

No it's not. It's merely annoying. Not something to rage or cry about. Just disappointed that so much people are proud of this "feature" and thinks that makes EvE a much better game.

I'm aware that you can't get rid of griefing without comprising many gameplay mechanics or whatever, the only thing I would ask is not to brag about it. If it can't be prohibited it still can be discouraged and even despised.

"What you dare to become rests in your will to be bold. Dare to be bold, pilot."

Harvesting tears is not what I would call a bold endeavor.

Originally by: VaMei
If the 1st thing new players get is a lesson in the 3 rules of EvE, then the idea of getting blown up in EvE will be a lost less scary for them.

1. Never fly what you can't afford to replace.
2. Never fly what you can't afford to replace.
3. If you're following rule 1 and rule 2, anything lost can be replaced.



I think what makes EvE a lot less scary is the fact that good PvP ships cost almost nothing. There's no reason to cry over the loss of a rifter or a merlin.

And if you're in a rookie friendly corp that's even easier. We give T1 frigs and modules for free and encourage rookies to use them whenever they like.

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.01.11 20:27:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Nora Skuld
There's no reason to cry over the loss of a rifter or a merlin.



If anyone ganks my Merlin I will infiltrate their alliance, become a director, and steal all their stuffz.


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