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Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.02.15 14:10:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Natasha Hec
Originally by: Janeway84
+1 to this :)
and It wouldn't be to much to ask for if gallente boats could run 1 extra drone.
I mean with all races being able to use drones, and gallente is the drone race its strange that they don't get any special with their drones.


What like drone bonuses or the ability to field a larger variety than equivalent ships. No that certainly isn't a current Gallente trait.

On a side note reducing the fitting of hybrids and making them insta reloading would improve both gallente and caldari hybrid boats (which seem to get forgotten in these discussions)


Caldari boats look like they get forgotten because the hybrid issue is far more acute for Gallente vessels, even though improving both blasters and railguns would benefit both races ships.

Caldari ships also have the use of missiles, which are arguably a better weapons system than drones.

Natasha Hec
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.02.15 14:19:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Ogogov
quotes


I would say the caldari hybrid boats have more of a problem applying damage than gallente ones due to a lack of midslots, being slow and having no damage bonus.

The whole 'Caldari have missile boats' doesnt really wash. Minus the drake, tengu, hookbill most are crap or average at best. The nighthawk is good but not that much of an improvement over the drake. Whereas the gallente drone boats are largely good. The ishkur, ishtar, vexor navy, vexor and domi are all good ships and the myrm is largely underrated.

This is why it would be better to fix hybrids first as it helps benefit more crap ships than just a gallente ship fix.

Tub Chil
Posted - 2011.02.15 14:59:00 - [123]
 

Actually gallente ships are designed by person who thinks that hybrids are powerful.

If hybrids were powerful, then it would be fair that ship carrying them are slow, have HORRIBLE CPU/PG, weird and useless bonuses and so on. this is how balance works (in eve)

Unfortunately Hybrids are not powerful. they are badly underpowerd compared to other weapon systems.

Minmatar ships on the other hand are created keeping in mind that projectiles are bad (maybe they were bad before? not sure) so their ships are versatile, fast, and.. just good.

so change the whole concept about hybrids being good. they are pretty much niche weapons and ship that carry them should be designet acordingly

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.02.15 15:09:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 15/02/2011 15:10:07
Originally by: Tub Chil
Actually gallente ships are designed by person who thinks that hybrids are powerful.

If hybrids were powerful, then it would be fair that ship carrying them are slow, have HORRIBLE CPU/PG, weird and useless bonuses and so on. this is how balance works (in eve)

Unfortunately Hybrids are not powerful. they are badly underpowerd compared to other weapon systems.

Minmatar ships on the other hand are created keeping in mind that projectiles are bad (maybe they were bad before? not sure) so their ships are versatile, fast, and.. just good.

so change the whole concept about hybrids being good. they are pretty much niche weapons and ship that carry them should be designet acordingly


This is CCP we're talking about. If you were around when Nozh really ****ed up the MS design you'd know how badly I want to go to Iceland and burn their offices down for not caring about Hybrids.

The one problem with Hybrids is their lack of range. Boost their range and you immediately boost their usability.

I have seen many posts defending the lack of range of hybrids but none have explained why Amarr can hit up to 50KM, whilst having the highest tracking, Minmatar can hit almost as far as Amarr and Caldari being able to hit up to 30KM with Torps (Torp Ravens are so rare they're rarer than platinum). An Abaddon can match the DPS of a Mega whilst outclassing it in every scenario and let's not even talk about Autocannons.

The imbalance is ridiculous and infuriating because CCP have been notified of this many a time.

I will vote for anyone who rebalances guns and adds more range to Hybrids. Adding extra damage will not do, as it's pointless. You can have a ship with a trillion DPS but the moment you're webbed or your MWD gets shut off all your DPS is useless and all you can do is wait to flee in your pod, because you're never going to reach your target anyway. The one thing that will help is, somehow, making them faster, but as I don't see it happening I want to see Hubrids being able to hit at up to 40KM.

Natasha Hec
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.02.15 15:43:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper
Edited by: Super Whopper on 15/02/2011 15:10:07
Originally by: Tub Chil
Actually gallente ships are designed by person who thinks that hybrids are powerful.

If hybrids were powerful, then it would be fair that ship carrying them are slow, have HORRIBLE CPU/PG, weird and useless bonuses and so on. this is how balance works (in eve)

Unfortunately Hybrids are not powerful. they are badly underpowerd compared to other weapon systems.

Minmatar ships on the other hand are created keeping in mind that projectiles are bad (maybe they were bad before? not sure) so their ships are versatile, fast, and.. just good.

so change the whole concept about hybrids being good. they are pretty much niche weapons and ship that carry them should be designet acordingly


This is CCP we're talking about. If you were around when Nozh really ****ed up the MS design you'd know how badly I want to go to Iceland and burn their offices down for not caring about Hybrids.

The one problem with Hybrids is their lack of range. Boost their range and you immediately boost their usability.

I have seen many posts defending the lack of range of hybrids but none have explained why Amarr can hit up to 50KM, whilst having the highest tracking, Minmatar can hit almost as far as Amarr and Caldari being able to hit up to 30KM with Torps (Torp Ravens are so rare they're rarer than platinum). An Abaddon can match the DPS of a Mega whilst outclassing it in every scenario and let's not even talk about Autocannons.

The imbalance is ridiculous and infuriating because CCP have been notified of this many a time.

I will vote for anyone who rebalances guns and adds more range to Hybrids. Adding extra damage will not do, as it's pointless. You can have a ship with a trillion DPS but the moment you're webbed or your MWD gets shut off all your DPS is useless and all you can do is wait to flee in your pod, because you're never going to reach your target anyway. The one thing that will help is, somehow, making them faster, but as I don't see it happening I want to see Hubrids being able to hit at up to 40KM.


Thats a stupid fix, making hybrids hit out to 40km replaces projectiles and means we end up with another essentially obsoleted weapon type.

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.02.15 19:08:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Natasha Hec
Thats a stupid fix, making hybrids hit out to 40km replaces projectiles and means we end up with another essentially obsoleted weapon type.


What's more stupid than unused guns with no niche?

Go ahead ask for total anihilation of gallente race/space since you are there. The only people sugestig things to make those weapons be usefull for a whole race are called "stupids" "emoragers" and so on... it's pathetic.

I can also say that I wouldn't like any other weapon/ship to become another "I win" button like my minie stuff, but that would be too much honest wich is not on the game/players line.

So what is your sugestion and please give some numbers realted to other weapon systems so we can see how you have found the best option and the way so that even newbbies stop using autocanons/artillery in theyr ships.

Natasha Hec
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.02.15 20:19:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Natasha Hec on 15/02/2011 20:21:16
Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: Natasha Hec
Thats a stupid fix, making hybrids hit out to 40km replaces projectiles and means we end up with another essentially obsoleted weapon type.


What's more stupid than unused guns with no niche?

Go ahead ask for total anihilation of gallente race/space since you are there. The only people sugestig things to make those weapons be usefull for a whole race are called "stupids" "emoragers" and so on... it's pathetic.

I can also say that I wouldn't like any other weapon/ship to become another "I win" button like my minie stuff, but that would be too much honest wich is not on the game/players line.

So what is your sugestion and please give some numbers realted to other weapon systems so we can see how you have found the best option and the way so that even newbbies stop using autocanons/artillery in theyr ships.



Im sorry there have been plenty of decent suggestions to fixing hybrids. Lowering fitting requirements, increasing damage and tracking, instant reloads, however increasing hybrid range to that of projectiles and lasers only makes all the guns similar with hybrids(blasters) outdamaging both lasers and projectiles across the board.

This all being whilst it would now have the best tracking anyway due to the improved hit chance from the now increased range.

It is a stupid idea to make all the guns similar hence why i said making blasters have 40km range is a stupid fix.

edit. I personally support a damage and tracking increase whilst lowering the fitting requirements, this would help both gallente and caldari hybrids and mean that you would still have to work to get people but the damage is now enough to make up from the tank you lost getting them in range

Liranan
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.02.16 03:36:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Natasha Hec
Im sorry there have been plenty of decent suggestions to fixing hybrids. Lowering fitting requirements, increasing damage and tracking, instant reloads, however increasing hybrid range to that of projectiles and lasers only makes all the guns similar with hybrids(blasters) outdamaging both lasers and projectiles across the board.

This all being whilst it would now have the best tracking anyway due to the improved hit chance from the now increased range.

It is a stupid idea to make all the guns similar hence why i said making blasters have 40km range is a stupid fix.

edit. I personally support a damage and tracking increase whilst lowering the fitting requirements, this would help both gallente and caldari hybrids and mean that you would still have to work to get people but the damage is now enough to make up from the tank you lost getting them in range



Lowering fitting requirements will do what? How will that solve the imbalance?

How will increased tracking fix the problem, other than everyone fitting rails? Great blaster fix: fit rails.

While fitting requirement would help somewhat it won't solve any real problem.

What you miss is that every race can match Gallente for DPS, whilst having more range. You are proposing to increase tracking to hit what a webbed ship? If your blasters are unable to hit a webbed ship you are either shooting the wrong target (too small) or you need to level your skills more.

I have 10m in hybrids alone and I haven't flown a blaster ship in years. What's the point in having these guns when everyone uses rails. There was a time when blasters meant something and a blaster boat instilled fear. Now a blaster boat causes laughter. "Look at that fool flying a ship with '04 fittings"

The last two options are CCP refund all the SP we've put in hybrids so we can put them in more useful guns, like lasers and lasers and lasers (AC's if you want to fly Machs but otherwise lasers) or they add mid slots to Gallente ships, allowing us to fit several tracking computers.

Kepakh
Posted - 2011.02.16 15:19:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Kepakh on 16/02/2011 15:21:01
The main issue imo is CCP Nozh or whoever is responsible for balancing changes. This person/people simply do not posses enough knowledge, rational thinking and understanding of the game mechanics to make such changes.

Until there is some radical change in the balancing procedure or people in charge, I do not believe there will be any positive move in terms of game balance.



Originally by: Liranan

While fitting requirement would help somewhat it won't solve any real problem.


Small example of T1 cruiser comparison:

Maller, 5x HPL: 85.5 PG and 218.75 CPU left
Thorax, 5x HNB: 71 PG and 243.75 CPU left
Rupture, 4x 425mm + 2x HAM: 293.8 PG 256.25 CPUleft

Weapons make fitting difference for the most part as remaining modules are about the same on all three ships. Question is: What do you want to fit on your Thorax with 71 PG left?

Balancing fitting requirements is essential part of Blaster issue as the problem is mostly the ships and less the weapons.

Natasha Hec
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.02.16 15:27:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Natasha Hec on 16/02/2011 15:28:44
Originally by: Liranan
Originally by: Natasha Hec
Im sorry there have been plenty of decent suggestions to fixing hybrids. Lowering fitting requirements, increasing damage and tracking, instant reloads, however increasing hybrid range to that of projectiles and lasers only makes all the guns similar with hybrids(blasters) outdamaging both lasers and projectiles across the board.

This all being whilst it would now have the best tracking anyway due to the improved hit chance from the now increased range.

It is a stupid idea to make all the guns similar hence why i said making blasters have 40km range is a stupid fix.

edit. I personally support a damage and tracking increase whilst lowering the fitting requirements, this would help both gallente and caldari hybrids and mean that you would still have to work to get people but the damage is now enough to make up from the tank you lost getting them in range



Lowering fitting requirements will do what? How will that solve the imbalance?

How will increased tracking fix the problem, other than everyone fitting rails? Great blaster fix: fit rails.

While fitting requirement would help somewhat it won't solve any real problem.

What you miss is that every race can match Gallente for DPS, whilst having more range. You are proposing to increase tracking to hit what a webbed ship? If your blasters are unable to hit a webbed ship you are either shooting the wrong target (too small) or you need to level your skills more.

I have 10m in hybrids alone and I haven't flown a blaster ship in years. What's the point in having these guns when everyone uses rails. There was a time when blasters meant something and a blaster boat instilled fear. Now a blaster boat causes laughter. "Look at that fool flying a ship with '04 fittings"

The last two options are CCP refund all the SP we've put in hybrids so we can put them in more useful guns, like lasers and lasers and lasers (AC's if you want to fly Machs but otherwise lasers) or they add mid slots to Gallente ships, allowing us to fit several tracking computers.


You may have 10m in hybrid sp but evidently you have 0 skill in reading as I actually proposed a damage and tracking buff for hybrids. Range is the one thing that definitely shouldn't change.

edit. Also as the above poster pointed out the ability to actually fit a full rack of medium guns, an mwd and a 1600mm plate on a thorax without an ACR would go a long way to helping rebalance the guns

Rer Eirikr
Gallente
Clearly Compensating
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.16 20:57:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Rer Eirikr on 16/02/2011 20:57:24
"It would be nice to fly my own race's ships, with hybrids, and an armor tank and not have to worry about being constantly out gunned."

What he said, +1

Liranan
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.02.17 06:17:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Liranan on 17/02/2011 06:25:35
Originally by: Kepakh
The main issue imo is CCP Nozh or whoever is responsible for balancing changes. This person/people simply do not posses enough knowledge, rational thinking and understanding of the game mechanics to make such changes.

Until there is some radical change in the balancing procedure or people in charge, I do not believe there will be any positive move in terms of game balance.



Originally by: Liranan

While fitting requirement would help somewhat it won't solve any real problem.


Small example of T1 cruiser comparison:

Maller, 5x HPL: 85.5 PG and 218.75 CPU left
Thorax, 5x HNB: 71 PG and 243.75 CPU left
Rupture, 4x 425mm + 2x HAM: 293.8 PG 256.25 CPUleft

Weapons make fitting difference for the most part as remaining modules are about the same on all three ships. Question is: What do you want to fit on your Thorax with 71 PG left?

Balancing fitting requirements is essential part of Blaster issue as the problem is mostly the ships and less the weapons.



I hardly ever fit Neutrons, too much PG and cap drain. Fittings are only part of the problem, but one that does need solving. But hey, we didn't want to fit those guns CCP introduced, because we're only being trolled anyway.

CCP have no clue as to how to play the game. Nozh is, simply put, an idiot. Seleene worked hard on the MS/SC rebalancing and in come the clueless and sweep away the designs seen by the players as great and introduce his/her/it/their own stupid idea's that do nothing to stop the proliferation of MS/SC.

Relying on CCP to grasp the fundamental problems of the game is like expecting an alcoholic to decide that there's a problem with that kind of lifestyle.

Originally by: Natasha Hec
You may have 10m in hybrid sp but evidently you have 0 skill in reading as I actually proposed a damage and tracking buff for hybrids. Range is the one thing that definitely shouldn't change.

edit. Also as the above poster pointed out the ability to actually fit a full rack of medium guns, an mwd and a 1600mm plate on a thorax without an ACR would go a long way to helping rebalance the guns


Medium guns = rails. With improved tracking you won't need to web.

Thus we have solved the blaster problem, fit rails. How about no? When I say blasters I mean blasters, not rails. With a 1600mm plate a thorax may be faster than a BS but it's still too slow to web anything before it's either pounded to a wreck or the target's got away.

Well done, you've just solved the rail tracking problem.

I have raised this problem at every CSM election and I will only vote for the person who champions this. Otherwise I don't see a point in even considering voting for people whose only goal is to advance their own selfish idea's.

Natasha Hec
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.02.17 09:16:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Natasha Hec on 17/02/2011 09:17:47
Originally by: Liranan
Quote


Medium Guns means just that medium guns. At the moment you cant fit a rack of electron blasters to a thorax with a 1600mm without a fitting mod of some kind.

I think I will have to go through my idea step by step for you as you seem quite happy not reading the short versions.


Firstly the problems that Gallente blaster boats face is hybrids are no longer the face melters of old, and do not have the DPS to make up for there lack of range anymore. The old example of a Geddon vs. Mega damage wise comes to mind.
The other problem is that due to slow ships and short range, by the time the Gallente blaster boat has tackled its opponent and can start laying in the hurt its lost too much of its buffer already.
There is a third problem in that even if Hybrids were fixed alot of blaster boats cannot fit a tank equivalent to ships of the same tier (rupture vs. thorax) and have medium guns (Thorax needs an ACR to fit Electrons, 1600mm plate and MWD).

A fitting buff for blasters (and rails) would help both Gallente Blaster Boats and Caldari Hybrid Boats. I personally reckon an increase to the point where the standard Armor Thorax fit becomes:-

[Thorax, New Setup 1]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Vespa EC-600 x5

This would increase the tank, dps and range of the current Electron fit and put it closer to the level of the standard armor rupture fit.
This would require a decrease in both the powergrid and CPU of hybrid guns (mainly powergrid though).

The speed issue is a little more difficult to solve. A straight speed buff starts to obsolete Minmatar kiting ships. As most minmatar kiting ships have low ehp and rely on speed to survive. I personally believe it should be a challenge to land that scram on people in a blaster boat but once you have your opponent scrammed it should be difficult to leave.
This could be solved by making a Gallente ship the fastest inside scram range so that its actually dangerous to get into scram range of a blaster boat and you cant just try a duke it out with them as you can now.(geddon vs mega example again)

For the damage and tracking increases, an increase equivalent to one free mag stab would be good. This would mean that blasters have a clear advantage in the dps stakes. Im not too sure what would be best as an actual number increase for the tracking as, I have to admit, am not to sure of the tracking formula.

edit. Tried to edit out any spelling errors

Liranan
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.02.17 12:08:00 - [134]
 

I agree with you that Minmatar are highly overpowered in this regard but the other issue is the problem of having your MWD shut down. Once that happens you're also dead, as you've either got to fit an AB (slow) or slowly make it back to the gate (death). Prior to the MWD mechanics change I'd have agreed with you but blaster ships are slow and catching your prey is hard, when everyone else is faster.

I am strictly talking solo PVP. A while ago I was flying around and got caught by a gang consisting of a Vaga, two inties, a dictor and another ship or two I can't remember. The Vaga flew off in hull. I waited for my timer and jumped through the gate I'd come. I held my cloak and waited for my shields to recharge a little, and MWD back to the gate. The inties pointed me and I slowly made my way back to the gate, all the while being shot at. Then I jumped through again. Had I been in anything but a Drake I'd have been dead long before I'd made it to the gate the first time.

It's impossible to try this with any other ship, let alone a Gallente one. Caldari may do little DPS but their ridiculous tank, and their ability to fly at full speed is simply incredible.

For solo PVP I would either fly a Drake (incredible tank) or a Zealot (range and DPS). Why shouldn't I be able to fly a Diemost? I want to have the ability to fly a Deimos, without it being a Diemost. This is why I want to see ranges increase or something else done that will allow me to hit a target from range, without worrying that I will be in pod by the time a single shot's hit the hostile. Maybe it's not so much the guns that need be changed but the ammo, I don't know but when a Zealot can hit at 30 and a Cerb can hit at 90 (lolmissiles) you have a problem (do I even need to mention Minmatar?). Even at the height of the nano***gotry era not many flew Gallente, they were useless even then. Deimos or nano Zealot... hard choice there...

I was just thinking, increasing gun range wouldn't hurt or make Arties or AC's obsolete, simply due to the fact that they can swap ammo.

Natasha Hec
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.02.17 12:16:00 - [135]
 

Edited by: Natasha Hec on 17/02/2011 12:25:43
Edited by: Natasha Hec on 17/02/2011 12:16:24
Originally by: Liranan
I agree with you that Minmatar are highly overpowered in this regard but the other issue is the problem of having your MWD shut down. Once that happens you're also dead, as you've either got to fit an AB (slow) or slowly make it back to the gate (death). Prior to the MWD mechanics change I'd have agreed with you but blaster ships are slow and catching your prey is hard, when everyone else is faster.

I am strictly talking solo PVP. A while ago I was flying around and got caught by a gang consisting of a Vaga, two inties, a dictor and another ship or two I can't remember. The Vaga flew off in hull. I waited for my timer and jumped through the gate I'd come. I held my cloak and waited for my shields to recharge a little, and MWD back to the gate. The inties pointed me and I slowly made my way back to the gate, all the while being shot at. Then I jumped through again. Had I been in anything but a Drake I'd have been dead long before I'd made it to the gate the first time.

It's impossible to try this with any other ship, let alone a Gallente one. Caldari may do little DPS but their ridiculous tank, and their ability to fly at full speed is simply incredible.

For solo PVP I would either fly a Drake (incredible tank) or a Zealot (range and DPS). Why shouldn't I be able to fly a Diemost? I want to have the ability to fly a Deimos, without it being a Diemost. This is why I want to see ranges increase or something else done that will allow me to hit a target from range, without worrying that I will be in pod by the time a single shot's hit the hostile. Maybe it's not so much the guns that need be changed but the ammo, I don't know but when a Zealot can hit at 30 and a Cerb can hit at 90 (lolmissiles) you have a problem (do I even need to mention Minmatar?). Even at the height of the nano***gotry era not many flew Gallente, they were useless even then. Deimos or nano Zealot... hard choice there...

I was just thinking, increasing gun range wouldn't hurt or make Arties or AC's obsolete, simply due to the fact that they can swap ammo.


Increasing gun range to that of lasers and projectiles would obsolete projectiles whether they can select damage type or not as you would have more dps and better tracking as hybrids have a large optimal. The only reason it wouldn't obsolete lasers is because they have scorch and scorch is awesome.

The ability to switch damage type whilst a handy things prior to fights if you dont have the right damage type in then you have to live with it as swapping during fights is rarely worth it.

edit. No where in my post did I mention Minmatar being overpowered

edit 2. Increasing the range of blasters to that of lasers or projectiles only serves to make this game more uniform and removes the traits that make the guns unique from each other.

Also lasers are better at range than projectiles

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.02.17 20:40:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Swynet on 17/02/2011 20:42:05
Increasing gun range will never obsolete other close weapons systems, but will make gallente pilots use their racial guns.

This will only make megas fit blasters to fight instead of autocanons whenever the pilot has understood that autos in a mega is "pwnmobile" like, while with blasters he's "easykillmailmobile"

Try it you'll get addict fast, and even more with shield buffer wich we"ll agree it's the true nature of gallente race, use autocanons and shield tank... or not.

Terios Corvalis
Gallente
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2011.02.18 13:05:00 - [137]
 

Gallente supposed to be the advanced drone using race. Give damage upgrade modules/rigs for normal drones too, not for just sentries.

Forumena Altair
Posted - 2011.02.18 14:14:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: fukier


3. IMO GALLENTE DONT NEED A BASE SPEED BOOST THEY NEED A MASS REDUCTION... THAT WAY WHEN YOU USE A MWD WITH ARMOR PLATES YOU WILL STILL BEABLE TO GO FAST... IF GALLENTE SHIPS HAD A LOWER MASS THEY WOULD BEABLE TO FIT THE PLATES AND MWD WITHOUT TOMUCH OF A NEGATIVE AFFECT ON A. MAX SPEED BOOST B. ALIGN TIME...



This. And increased PG across the board for Gallente.

Davader
Posted - 2011.02.18 15:01:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Davader on 18/02/2011 15:02:06
Edited by: Davader on 18/02/2011 15:01:15
This sounds perspective, either way most Gallente subcapital boats are in deep ass in nowdays big fleet combat opses.. Gallente have perfect capitals, their small ships are good as well, but middle classes and BSs need some boost. Be it a speed boost or PG boost - doesn't matter. In general I support this idea.

Kepakh
Posted - 2011.02.18 16:54:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Forumena Altair
Originally by: fukier


3. IMO GALLENTE DONT NEED A BASE SPEED BOOST THEY NEED A MASS REDUCTION... THAT WAY WHEN YOU USE A MWD WITH ARMOR PLATES YOU WILL STILL BEABLE TO GO FAST... IF GALLENTE SHIPS HAD A LOWER MASS THEY WOULD BEABLE TO FIT THE PLATES AND MWD WITHOUT TOMUCH OF A NEGATIVE AFFECT ON A. MAX SPEED BOOST B. ALIGN TIME...



This. And increased PG across the board for Gallente.


Lower mass does not help much blaster boats being kitied within scram range.

That is a reasoning behind base speed buff as it would help blasters the most to fight within their weapon range.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.02.18 19:09:00 - [141]
 

Increasing range would be a bad idea. Better to re-balance ammo a bit and reduce reload time so you can switch from AM to something that can actually hit something more than a stone's throw away.

In fact my proposal to to "fix" blasters would be increase tracking alot so you can actually hit a same sized hull for full damage out to optimal you already have a stupidly short range to work with why reduce it even further by cutting out the fist 20% of it.

Next adjust the fitting requirements on hybrids.

They just take too much to fit a decent set of guns. Fit electrons and you lose the bulk of that great DPS advantage you are supposed to get and you get even more pathetic range.

Ideally a ship should be able to fit a full rack of 1st tier guns with a reasonable tank with low skill, a rack of mid tier with a reasonable tank at high skill and a full rack of top tier guns with a good tank with perfect skills and max 1 fitting mod.

As noted before re-balance ammo and make it instant (or really fast ammo change) they are hybrid after all they already get disadvantages from their base systems (cap/ammo use as well as limited damage selection) why not give them a single advantage from one (quick ammo change)

Reduce ammo size. Why does a 425mm round that requires no propellant take more room to store than 1400mm round that does?

Lower cap use, (or at least lower cap penalties on ammo) It's a hybrid system not a pure energy system it should use significantly less cap than a laser system particularly since it's meant to go with active tanks.

Change the penalty on active tanking rigs (nanopumps nonobot accelerators) to something other than reduction in speed.

Lower fitting requirements on active tanking mods particularly Large Armor reppers. OMG 2300pg for a LAR2? That's just stupid particularly since you have fit 2-3 of the damned things to put out enough rep to be useful. cut it in friggin half or boost the **** out of the PG on Gal BS hulls. You can fit 3 1600mm plates and have room for a meta 4 heavy cap booster with the grid savings alone compared to a single LAR2.

hell do that alone and you might get away with leaving Large Hybrids alone.

Rails hell I don't even know where to start. There just doesn't seem to be a place for them in long range combat. Beams get the best DPS while Arties get the alpha. They get slightly better optimal but by the time that starts to become an issue you're moving into warpable range (really aside from alpha strike any range beyond 150km is useless.)

Styria Strike
Amarr
Axial tilt
The Babylon Consortium
Posted - 2011.02.19 23:26:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper

The one problem with Hybrids is their lack of range. Boost their range and you immediately boost their usability.


this

Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises

Posted - 2011.02.20 23:36:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Chi Quan on 20/02/2011 23:38:05
just to make them realize there are problems

GammaGT
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.20 23:49:00 - [144]
 

Good.

Julius Foederatus
Posted - 2011.02.27 09:14:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Julius Foederatus on 27/02/2011 09:19:51
Originally by: Natasha Hec
Edited by: Natasha Hec on 17/02/2011 09:17:47
The speed issue is a little more difficult to solve. A straight speed buff starts to obsolete Minmatar kiting ships. As most minmatar kiting ships have low ehp and rely on speed to survive. I personally believe it should be a challenge to land that scram on people in a blaster boat but once you have your opponent scrammed it should be difficult to leave.
This could be solved by making a Gallente ship the fastest inside scram range so that its actually dangerous to get into scram range of a blaster boat and you cant just try a duke it out with them as you can now.(geddon vs mega example again)


Firstly, Minmatar boats have plenty EHP, the only reason they have less EHP and rely on speed to stay alive is because everyone shield tanks their canes these days and it's obvious that they're not meant to be shield tanked (4 mids Rolling Eyes). If you armor tank a cane, you'll get a lot more EHP, you're still reasonably fast, and you'll either out dps a harbinger, or you can use your utility slots to fit neuts and ruin his day.

Secondly, kiting needs to be nerfed. It's become the end all and be all tactic of everyone in low sec. Everyone uses it. Cynabals, canes, drakes, hell even harbingers are shield tanked these days it seems, though not as often. The only way someone can compete with short range guns these days is to make sure they can hit inside point range, and even then, with faction points or loki boosts, that's impossible because of increased point range. Buffing Gall ships so that they can actually fit an armor tank and still catch things would actually bring some of this back into line because you couldn't keep your ships out of scram range continually. I believe it should be a challenge to scram people too, but not the impossibility it is nowadays.

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2011.02.27 09:26:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Julius Foederatus
Edited by: Julius Foederatus on 27/02/2011 09:19:51
Originally by: Natasha Hec
Edited by: Natasha Hec on 17/02/2011 09:17:47
The speed issue is a little more difficult to solve. A straight speed buff starts to obsolete Minmatar kiting ships. As most minmatar kiting ships have low ehp and rely on speed to survive. I personally believe it should be a challenge to land that scram on people in a blaster boat but once you have your opponent scrammed it should be difficult to leave.
This could be solved by making a Gallente ship the fastest inside scram range so that its actually dangerous to get into scram range of a blaster boat and you cant just try a duke it out with them as you can now.(geddon vs mega example again)


Firstly, Minmatar boats have plenty EHP, the only reason they have less EHP and rely on speed to stay alive is because everyone shield tanks their canes these days and it's obvious that they're not meant to be shield tanked (4 mids Rolling Eyes). If you armor tank a cane, you'll get a lot more EHP, you're still reasonably fast, and you'll either out dps a harbinger, or you can use your utility slots to fit neuts and ruin his day.

Secondly, kiting needs to be nerfed. It's become the end all and be all tactic of everyone in low sec. Everyone uses it. Cynabals, canes, drakes, hell even harbingers are shield tanked these days it seems, though not as often. The only way someone can compete with short range guns these days is to make sure they can hit inside point range, and even then, with faction points or loki boosts, that's impossible because of increased point range. Buffing Gall ships so that they can actually fit an armor tank and still catch things would actually bring some of this back into line because you couldn't keep your ships out of scram range continually. I believe it should be a challenge to scram people too, but not the impossibility it is nowadays.

Nanofits abound because faction warfare idiots routinely bring 5 BCs and a couple of Falcons to fight soloists. The problem is you.

Also, I've never had issues catching or disengaging from kiters in my armor ships. Try not sucking.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:20:00 - [147]
 

Edited by: The Djego on 27/02/2011 11:49:38
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Nanofits abound because faction warfare idiots routinely bring 5 BCs and a couple of Falcons to fight soloists. The problem is you.

Also, I've never had issues catching or disengaging from kiters in my armor ships. Try not sucking.


While I agree that you can blame the blob mentality of most people to some amount for it, it isn't actually a FW only problem. It is a increasing trend over all lowsec since the beginning of 2009. Basically QR backfired by requiring nanoing even more as before since dumped close range efficiency for solo/small gang pvpers(outside of frig pvp) and since they are hard to catch this way, the predator adept(similar situation as before QR).

Also I hardly got away against 5 nano Drakes and a Cane yesterday, doing 1270+ m/s with my pest(1800+ after overload, ended up around 120km off the last guy that warped in...). In any armor fitted Cruiser, BC, BS you would have been mostly toast.

You can ofc state that armor fits stand a chance but if most serious fits are build around catching and fighting nanoed targets(that are everything but paper thin, different to pre QR HACs) this days you rapidly running into situations where you fail to catch targets but become a easy one for most others at the same time.

Kepakh
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:50:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: The Djego

You can ofc state that armor fits stand a chance but if most serious fits are build around catching and fighting nanoed targets(that are everything but paper thin, different to pre QR HACs) this days you rapidly running into situations where you fail to catch targets but become a easy one for most others at the same time.


This is what the problem currently is.

Pre-QR nanos were balanced. They were surely fast but to gain their speed they had to sacrifice their DPS and HP heavily. This principle no longer works. To get a nano ship these days you fly faction ship or Minmatar boat but they have same HP and DPS as your slow boat...

The game is broken in this regards and needs to be fixed. Nano ships are definitely good thing but needs to come with drawbacks.

Dwergi
No.Mercy
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.02.27 16:03:00 - [149]
 

The entire Gallente sub-cap line of ships is broken. Hybrids are broken. The ships are too damn slow. Blasters (and rails) require far too much fitting to make any setups viable.

I flew Gallente for a year, but as of today I've completed my cross-train to Minmatar and haven't flown a Gallente non-frig, non-capital ship for a year.

Bedell
Gallente
White Powder

Posted - 2011.02.27 17:03:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Bedell on 27/02/2011 17:03:23


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