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Julius Foederatus
Posted - 2011.01.08 08:09:00 - [1]
 

Yes I know the hybrid topic has been beat to death (and back again) but luckily for all you boys and girls this isn't about hybrids, this is about their main platforms.

It's no secret that Gallente ships are outperformed by their racial counterparts in almost any match up. It could be recons, BCs, BS, even cruisers; Gallente are bested in almost any match up. Here are a few proposals to help balance them and make them more effective in small gang and maybe even fleet warfare so that we're not relegated to drakes online.

1) Increase the Dampener bonus on Celestis hulls (T1 plus the recon ships) from 5% per level to 10% per level. The numbers are themselves are less important than the fact that Gallente ewar ships need a buff. It's ridiculous that the only way to effectly dampen a target is with 3 damps from a ship designed specifically to field that ewar. Buffing these hulls prevents the return to RSDs on every goddamn setup known to man, but allows more options for dealing with both ECM and nano***gotry alike. And the fact that the optimal only extends to 45km (with max skills) keeps it from being too OP.

2) Change the penalties on Armor rigs. Gallente ships are already slow, but to force them to further gimp themselves by fitting trimarks if they want any sort of usable tank is just completely unfair and bad design. Maybe an additional agility penalty on the armor rigs across the board would be acceptable, but honestly, forcing armor ships designed to fight at close range to kill their max speed (and even agility) even further is just cruel. Ideally we could make the penalty less shields, or something that doesn't have anything to do with speed, but anything is better than the current situation. And this would be great for other races too, as we'd see a lot less bastardized shield tanked Hurricanes, and a little more variety in gang setups.

3) Boost the base speed on Gallente ships. This is the big one. Kiting is just way too easy in this game. There's a reason in a lot of fantasy games ranged chars are forced to fire while stationary (it's so the melee units can catch up). The fact that the race with the shortest range, is not the fastest is just silly. I mean think about it, pretend you're a game designer coming up with a new game and you try to pitch the idea of having a slow melee unit, trying to catch a ranged unit that can fire while moving and is faster than the melee unit to begin with. It's an impossible situation. Even if you get a warp in, your target is already moving 1-2km/s, add another 6-7 sec (that's being generous) for lock time, plus another second for module lag, as well as the time it takes you to get up to speed against a ship that is already faster than you, and it's damn near impossible to get web/scram on a nanoed target. And that's assuming that you literally land on top of him. And if anyone comes in here with that BS about "Matar have to be the fastest cause that's the way it is" should just not bother posting. It's the height of stupidity to keep an entire race of combat ships gimped because of some stupid fluff or grandfathered reasoning.

4) Add more PG to the ships or lower hybrid fitting requirements. It is almost impossible to fit a decent tank on a Gallente ship, even with Ions, which means they have yet another disadvantage added to the extensive list of existing ones. And why are 200mm rails so much more PG heavy than dual 150mms? It's so far and away from the jump between electrons and ions that it doesn't make a lick of sense.

5) Lastly, change the rep bonus or alter armor reps somehow. Boosting the rep bonus would make too many OP wtfpwn boats, but trying to fit a dual repper setup with anything besides the very lowest class of guns is impossible without totally gimping yourself. Perhaps lowering the PG requirement for armor reppers and reducing their cap usage would help improve the setups.

These changes are needed as well as hybrid fixes, but both need fixing (tracking esp).

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2011.01.08 08:41:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Rip Minner on 08/01/2011 08:42:11
Supported but we need to come up with fixs for Caldire Gun ships too. There even slower then Gallent and not a one of them get a tracking bounse.ugh

Elana Dyson
Posted - 2011.01.08 09:05:00 - [3]
 

Boost Gallente!

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2011.01.08 10:55:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Joss56 on 19/01/2011 18:00:14
Supported.

Wallente ships need fix

Hybrids need to be fix

DarkAegix
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.08 12:46:00 - [5]
 

All Gallente needs fixing, as will as the majority (or all?) of Caldari hybrid boats.

Grut
The Protei

Posted - 2011.01.08 12:48:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Grut on 08/01/2011 12:49:17
Originally by: Julius Foederatus


1) Increase the Dampener bonus on Celestis hulls (T1 plus the recon ships) from 5% per level to 10% per level.




Damps used to be uber... now their overnerfed ... a boost to the hull bonus would be good, exact numbers would have to be done through play testing.

Originally by: Julius Foederatus


2) Change the penalties on Armor rigs.



I agree speed wrecks the setups not to sure what would be better, as you posted agility would be worth a go

Originally by: Julius Foederatus


3) Boost the base speed on Gallente ships.


Dosen't have to be faster then mim just ... faster, the deimos for example is slower then the zealot wtf

Originally by: Julius Foederatus

4) Add more PG to the ships



Yeap, this would fix alot of the issues with the hulls
Originally by: Julius Foederatus

5) Lastly, change the rep bonus or alter armor reps somehow.


armour rep bonus applies to recieved RR aswell = fixed. If you leave it as local only its aways going to be useless in either a buffer fit or asoon as theirs more then 2 guys shooting at you

InColdBlood
Posted - 2011.01.08 13:21:00 - [7]
 

any change is welcome and much needed!

Crazy KSK
Posted - 2011.01.08 14:49:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Crazy KSK on 08/01/2011 14:54:32
you sir hit the nail on the head!

1) imho it should be even 15% on the razu and the lach tho damps should not be able to damp lower then 10km but one damp should be able to make one ships have said 10km lock range

2)better idea make the rigging skill reduce 20% per level making the skill more useful and when skilled to 5 removing the penalty altogether(that goes for all rigging skills and rigs)

3) gallente ships should be the the fastest race's ships in game they should not be able to be kited by their minmatar counterpart except by specialized ships (vaga, huggin, rapier etc)

4)both needs to be done lower blaster and rail PG and increase the base PG/CPU on the ships a brutix needs to be able to fit a rack of ions a med cap booster a mwd and dual rep ffs same goes for the Hyperion

5) change it to a 5% resist bonus and you got a deal that would make those ships so much more useful and keep em able to use dual or even triple MAR setups (triple hype only)

and despite all that blasters and rails still need a buff in damage and tacking (25% in both i say! yes it would op them in close range fight but seriously! every weapon should stand out in its niche! also for med blasters with have a optimal of about 5km it is not too much asked to have them omgwtfspwn in that area )

Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
POD-SQUAD
Posted - 2011.01.08 20:37:00 - [9]
 

AT first i was going to say that you should post in one of those topics taht already exist.. WE do indeed need to consolidate, i don't care who'se post it is.
2,3,4 i simply could not agree more. Armor rigs and speed. PLEase. Guns need fixing as well, for crist sake.

Jaina Sunspot
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2011.01.08 21:57:00 - [10]
 

+1

Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
Posted - 2011.01.08 22:26:00 - [11]
 

Gallente ships aren't underpowered. They're just not the top PvP race. That being said, there's plenty good Gallente PvP ships such as the incursus, myrmidon, megathron, and nyx to name a few.

The reason everyone flies drakes is because drakes are overpowered. I fly a drake and have to agree, drakes are overpowered. My combat-oriented skills are so puny that I have difficulty soloing level 3 missions no matter what I fly in, unless it's a drake. I can solo some level 4 missions in a drake. Drake is the only ship I have a chance of defeating another player's ship in. I haven't yet, but I've come close.

Other battlecruisers aren't underpowered at all, in fact they're great all-around ships that don't do any one thing too well. Drakes, on the other hand, can tank better than most battleships while maintaining the mobility and signature radius of a battlecruiser. If you ask me, it should only have this potential if its damage were rather pitiful. MY damage in a drake is pitiful, but I've seen plenty of drakes that can really put out some dps. Drakes should have shield recharge time nerfed.

Topherak
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:31:00 - [12]
 

Agreed, I love the idea behind the ships. close quick and whammy. however, that is not what we get out of our blaster boats. Supported.

fukier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:59:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: fukier on 09/01/2011 02:00:09
YES I DO AGREE THAT GALLENTE SHIPS NEED A BOOST AND A HYBRID FIX BUT I DONT AGREE WITH ALL YOUR IDEAS...

1. YES THIS IS AWESOME IDEA...

2. NO!THIS WOULD AFFECT ALL SHIPS THAT ARMOR TANK... AMMAR DONT NEED A BOOST... PERSONALLY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE ARMOR TANKING BONUS CHANGED TO AN ARMOR AMOUNT PER LEVEL... THIS WOULD AFFECT THE BRUTIX, MYRM, HYPERION, ASTARTE...

3. IMO GALLENTE DONT NEED A BASE SPEED BOOST THEY NEED A MASS REDUCTION... THAT WAY WHEN YOU USE A MWD WITH ARMOR PLATES YOU WILL STILL BEABLE TO GO FAST... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Micro_warp_drive
SINCE GALLENTE SHIPS HAVE TO FIT PLATES AND A MWD PLUS ARMOR RIGS... YOUR SHIPS BECOMES REALLY SLOW... BUT IF GALLENTE SHIPS HAD A LOWER MASS THEY WOULD BEABLE TO FIT THE PLATES AND MWD WITHOUT TOMUCH OF A NEGATIVE AFFECT ON A. MAX SPEED BOOST B. ALIGN TIME...

Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:31:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim
Gallente ships aren't underpowered.


wrong.

Quote:
They're just not the top PvP race.


Correct, because they're way underpowered.

Quote:
That being said, there's plenty good Gallente PvP ships such as the incursus, myrmidon, megathron, and nyx to name a few.

Wrong. When was the last time you saw a fleet Megathron? People are discouraged training for the Nyx in favor of the Aeon due to its lack of EHP. The Myrmidon is rarely used outside of PVE, and the Incursus is outclassed so heavily by a Rifter it's not even funny.

Quote:

The reason everyone flies drakes is because drakes are overpowered. I fly a drake and have to agree, drakes are overpowered. My combat-oriented skills are so puny that I have difficulty soloing level 3 missions no matter what I fly in, unless it's a drake. I can solo some level 4 missions in a drake. Drake is the only ship I have a chance of defeating another player's ship in. I haven't yet, but I've come close.


So.. come back in two years after you have more experience flying various ships and claim Gallente aren't underpowered then. You're somewhat right about Drakes, but that's because a Drake is a dumb mouthbreathing brick with insane tanking ability.. but it suffers heavily in other roles.

Julius Foederatus
Posted - 2011.01.09 04:01:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: fukier
Edited by: fukier on 09/01/2011 02:00:09
YES I DO AGREE THAT GALLENTE SHIPS NEED A BOOST AND A HYBRID FIX BUT I DONT AGREE WITH ALL YOUR IDEAS...

1. YES THIS IS AWESOME IDEA...

2. NO!THIS WOULD AFFECT ALL SHIPS THAT ARMOR TANK... AMMAR DONT NEED A BOOST... PERSONALLY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE ARMOR TANKING BONUS CHANGED TO AN ARMOR AMOUNT PER LEVEL... THIS WOULD AFFECT THE BRUTIX, MYRM, HYPERION, ASTARTE...

3. IMO GALLENTE DONT NEED A BASE SPEED BOOST THEY NEED A MASS REDUCTION... THAT WAY WHEN YOU USE A MWD WITH ARMOR PLATES YOU WILL STILL BEABLE TO GO FAST... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Micro_warp_drive
SINCE GALLENTE SHIPS HAVE TO FIT PLATES AND A MWD PLUS ARMOR RIGS... YOUR SHIPS BECOMES REALLY SLOW... BUT IF GALLENTE SHIPS HAD A LOWER MASS THEY WOULD BEABLE TO FIT THE PLATES AND MWD WITHOUT TOMUCH OF A NEGATIVE AFFECT ON A. MAX SPEED BOOST B. ALIGN TIME...


As far as #2 goes, Amarr would still be some of the slowest ships, so removing the armor rig penalty really wouldn't change all that much since relatively they'd still be behind the other races (except maybe Caldari). An armor tanked harbinger is still not going to catch up to an armor tanked Hurricane if this change went through (at least I'd hope not). And as far as reducing mass, I'm fine with whatever puts the blaster boats over the top as far as speed goes, but if we keep the armor rig penalty as is, they'll always be inferior because the penalty will hurt even more the faster the ships go.

fukier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2011.01.09 06:54:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Julius Foederatus
Originally by: fukier
Edited by: fukier on 09/01/2011 02:00:09
YES I DO AGREE THAT GALLENTE SHIPS NEED A BOOST AND A HYBRID FIX BUT I DONT AGREE WITH ALL YOUR IDEAS...

1. YES THIS IS AWESOME IDEA...

2. NO!THIS WOULD AFFECT ALL SHIPS THAT ARMOR TANK... AMMAR DONT NEED A BOOST... PERSONALLY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE ARMOR TANKING BONUS CHANGED TO AN ARMOR AMOUNT PER LEVEL... THIS WOULD AFFECT THE BRUTIX, MYRM, HYPERION, ASTARTE...

3. IMO GALLENTE DONT NEED A BASE SPEED BOOST THEY NEED A MASS REDUCTION... THAT WAY WHEN YOU USE A MWD WITH ARMOR PLATES YOU WILL STILL BEABLE TO GO FAST... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Micro_warp_drive
SINCE GALLENTE SHIPS HAVE TO FIT PLATES AND A MWD PLUS ARMOR RIGS... YOUR SHIPS BECOMES REALLY SLOW... BUT IF GALLENTE SHIPS HAD A LOWER MASS THEY WOULD BEABLE TO FIT THE PLATES AND MWD WITHOUT TOMUCH OF A NEGATIVE AFFECT ON A. MAX SPEED BOOST B. ALIGN TIME...


As far as #2 goes, Amarr would still be some of the slowest ships, so removing the armor rig penalty really wouldn't change all that much since relatively they'd still be behind the other races (except maybe Caldari). An armor tanked harbinger is still not going to catch up to an armor tanked Hurricane if this change went through (at least I'd hope not). And as far as reducing mass, I'm fine with whatever puts the blaster boats over the top as far as speed goes, but if we keep the armor rig penalty as is, they'll always be inferior because the penalty will hurt even more the faster the ships go.


hmm... in that case i could see the penilty being split between agility and speed... so base for rigs would be 5% to agility and 5% to speed... that way with skills at V you get a 2.5% reduction in speed/agility per rig... so now 2 rigs = 1 old rig in max speed reduction

Jahpahjay
Posted - 2011.01.09 12:20:00 - [17]
 

Good points, OP. I just hope these can be taken to heart and implemented in some fashion. Time will tell, I suppose, but it appears it'll be later rather than sooner.Confused

Doctor Aibolit
Posted - 2011.01.09 14:25:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Doctor Aibolit on 09/01/2011 14:25:23
another thousand posts about gallente/hybrid fix.
I support

Seamus Donohue
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.09 15:45:00 - [19]
 

Supported.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.01.09 17:00:00 - [20]
 

Some good ideas, some bad. Main issue with gallente is hybrids though.

Julius Foederatus
Posted - 2011.01.09 18:35:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: TimMc
Some good ideas, some bad. Main issue with gallente is hybrids though.


Yes and no. Hybrids are indeed a big issue, mainly the tracking at close ranges, which prevents the ships themselves from outperforming others even when they're right in the exact sweet spot of their optimal ranges (i.e. web/scram range). But even if we fixed those issues, the speed issue would remain. I fly Gallente ships exclusively, in gangs of all sizes, and I've gone through these problems first hand.

With perfect skills and no implants and nothing but a MWD fitted, the Gallente BC line (all the BC lines go the same speed with their MWDs on, regardless of tier) goes 1112m/s. This is without armor rigs or any kind of plates at all. The Caldari BC line goes 1038m/s. Sounds like a reasonable difference on it's face right? Lets add one armor rig to the Gallente BC. Instantly the Gallente BC goes down to 1057m/s. Anyone who's flown an armor tanked ship knows that you can't really tank it properly without 3 armor rigs, so lets add two more rigs. This brings the Gallente BC down to 982m/s. This is well below even the Caldari BC line, and right off the bat we know one thing: unless the Gallente BC lands right on top of the Caldari BC, it can never catch it.

For the sake of argument, lets go down this road farther. Lets say the armor rigs we put on are for active repping, but we need a fleet setup so we switch to trimarks to give our ship a usable buffer tank. Still the same stats that we had for the active repped bc, but now lets add a 1600mm plate. Instantly our speed goes down to 872m/s. Try catching a drake now. Even worse, try catching a Harbinger or a Prophecy which actually have better base speed than both Gallente and Caldari BCs (!). And just as an aside, with 3 EANMs and a 1600mm plate, going that speed, the myrm only gets 80k EHP with max skills. You can add another 1600mm plate to push it up over 100k ehp, but then you have no slots for mag stabs (or gyros however you fit your myrm), or tracking enhancers or anything like that, and no PG left over for medium guns after you fit the second 1600mm plate on. Sure you've got ewar slots in the mids but what does that matter when you can't even get close enough to another ship to apply your DPS. And this is for a Myrmidon, forget about getting decent EWAR on a Brutix.

All this would still be ok, if the weapon systems available could project damage and the ewar could help make the ship usable. But in the case of the Brutix, even Neutrons barely take you past scrambler range with antimatter ammo. So we have incredibly slow ships, designed to use the weapons with the worst range, trying to catch ships that have to make no compromises between tank, dps, and speed. Even if you fit autos on your myrm, why would you fly it when you can just fly a Hurricane which is faster and can get better dps without sacrificing tank.

Try fighting a drake with a myrm if you land 20km off. Firstly, you can't catch him because if you armor tanked your myrm like you should, you're at a disadvantage in speed. Secondly, your tank is worse than his if he fit properly (assuming buffer tanks). Thirdly, you're doing less DPS than he is if he's HAM fit, which if this is a solo fight I would hope he would be. If you swap out the myrm for a dual rep active tank, you're still slower than he is, though by a less margin than the plate, and you have a better tank, but guess what: your tank is only as good as long as you have navy 800 cap boosters. If you can't web and scram the drake, you can't apply full dps to him. Add to that more than half of your dps is drones, which are easy to kill especially with missiles. This is just a solo situation. Extrapolate this to fleet warfare and you can see why Gallente ships are left in the dust. The only way we could fix this problem without altering the speed of Gallente ships is to give blasters with null a longer range than lasers with scorch, which kills variety in the game.

Melcairwen Taldir
Gallente
Aliastra

Posted - 2011.01.09 20:27:00 - [22]
 


X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.01.10 16:35:00 - [23]
 

Buffing hull tanking could possibly mitigate the speed and web problem. Two ways: 1) add hull buffer rigs (armor and shield tankers have them, why not hull tankers?), 2) remove penalty to reinforced bulkheads, and buff their percentage increase a little bit (and then provide some sort of stacking penalty to keep them from being OP).

Agree with the overall argument. Supported.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.10 20:31:00 - [24]
 

Some good ideas. Be nice to have them boosted back a bit after they've been hammered to death by the nerf bats.

-Windjammer

Julius Foederatus
Posted - 2011.01.11 07:32:00 - [25]
 

bump

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.01.11 11:46:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Wacktopia on 11/01/2011 11:46:10
Originally by: Julius Foederatus
1) Increase the Dampener bonus on Celestis hulls


I think I would actually cry with joy if CCP did something like this. Damps are just a huge waste of mids in all but a few, very specific situations. 5% bonus per level is pitiful, equivalent to just one extra damp if you have a rack of four. OH WOW.

Changing the bonus to 10% per level would mean a ship with 2 damps would effectively have 3 - sound's reasonable? When CCP nerfed damps they neglected to buff the Gallente recon ships. (sound familiar).

Originally by: Julius Foederatus
2) Change the penalties on Armor rigs. Gallente ships are already slow, but to force them to further gimp themselves by fitting trimarks if they want any sort of usable tank is just completely unfair and bad design. Maybe an additional agility penalty on the armor rigs across the board would be acceptable, but honestly, forcing armor ships designed to fight at close range to kill their max speed (and even agility) even further is just cruel.


This would be great but, like you say, there probably needs to be some kind of drawback. Part of the problem with armor buffers is that you need 3xTrimark and often some slaves to achieve a similar EHP to that of a shield buffer equivalent without nerfing your dps. However, this makes your ship brick-like.

Perhaps just an agility nerf rather than top speed - allowing the boat to charge in and tackle but not be used like a nano-shield boat?

Originally by: Julius Foederatus
3) Boost the base speed on Gallente ships.


Whilst it sounds like a great idea, the balance must always be Fast=>Low HP and Slow=>High HP.

How about... Allowing some Gallente ships to run their MWD for longer (ala Thorax), allowing them to potentially catch kiters. Alternatively, reducing heat damage from MWD o/l would have a similar effect. Base speed could be mainly unchanged.

Originally by: Julius Foederatus
4) Add more PG to the ships or lower hybrid fitting requirements


This is a problem, especially with the active-tanked ships: Myrm, Brutix, Hype. When I cross-trained to Minmattar I couldn't believe it when I fitted out a Hurricane... I was throwing on 1600+800 RT plates, mid-class guns, 2 neuts, mwd and the whole lot fitted with an extra mid to throw sebo/web/etc on. Then I compare this to poking around with similar Gallente fits, convincing myself that putting a Reactor Control II (20% PG) in the lows was perhaps intended.

Originally by: Julius Foederatus
5) Lastly, change the rep bonus or alter armor reps somehow. Boosting the rep bonus would make too many OP wtfpwn boats, but trying to fit a dual repper setup with anything besides the very lowest class of guns is impossible without totally gimping yourself. Perhaps lowering the PG requirement for armor reppers and reducing their cap usage would help improve the setups.


The Hype is not the end of the world (because the Mega and Domi are respectable) but the Brutix and Myrm both having a repper bonus is dreadful. One of the most common PvP classes and there is one one choice of tank, which happens to be terrible unless you lol-fit 3 reppers on the Myrm and use it solo. Anyone flying a Brutix will fit a shield tank in their right mind as the potential active tank is pointless and armor buffer makes a small increase over the shield with a massive speed penalty.

All I can think is that CCP are holding out to improve Gallente in a clever way instead of slapping on half-baked ideas.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.01.11 15:12:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: X Gallentius on 11/01/2011 15:22:39
Whilst it sounds like a great idea, the balance must always be Fast=>Low HP and Slow=>High HP.

Yet Minmatar ships in general tank better than Gallente ships (Gallente have to use slots for fitting, Minmatar don't).

This is a problem, especially with the active-tanked ships: Myrm, Brutix, Hype. When I cross-trained to Minmattar I couldn't believe it when I fitted out a Hurricane... I was throwing on 1600+800 RT plates, mid-class guns, 2 neuts, mwd and the whole lot fitted with an extra mid to throw sebo/web/etc on. Then I compare this to poking around with similar Gallente fits, convincing myself that putting a Reactor Control II (20% PG) in the lows was perhaps intended.

This all has to do with the ridiculously easy fitting requirements for 425mm autocannons for ships with the second highest PG and CPU (Minmatar) and the ridiculously difficult fitting reqs of blasters for ships with the second worst PGU AND CPU (Gallente).

A good comparison is the repper Myrm. You can only fit heavy electron blasters (worst Gallente blasters), but you can slap on 425mm autocannons (best Minmatar autos). No cap issues, better engagement range, better everything.

Also, light electron blasters (worst) have same fitting requirements as largest small autocannons (best).

Julius Foederatus
Posted - 2011.01.11 18:51:00 - [28]
 

As far as armor rigs go, I think an agility penalty is the best of both worlds, since it doesn't completely encroach on the mobility of shield tankers, but it doesn't completely kill armor tanker's ability to catch shield ships.

With regards to the base speed, honestly it's the only solution. The thorax can already run it's MWD longer than most MWD fit ships because of the cap bonus it gets. It still doesn't let it catch a ruppy. And even if the thorax is faster on paper, unless it's a good 1-200m/s faster, by the time it catches the ruppy it'll be in deep structure and will just get popped anyway due to the ruppy's better tracking and better tank. The only other possible solution is to make the dps on blasters ridiculously high so that they could make up the damage difference in the small window of time they have the target webbed and scrammed, though if you can never catch your target you're already dead.

It's important to note that the armor rig changes and the base speed boost have to come hand in hand for them to work. If you take off the armor rig penalties, your ships are still the slowest in the game because a) you have to fit plates to have a hope of surviving anything, and b) their base speed is the 2nd slowest in the game, just barely in front of Caldari (who don't have any speed penalties and actually go faster than Gallente ships in practice). If you increase the base speed, but don't take the speed penalty off the rigs, the ships are still going much slower than their Minnie and maybe even Caldari counter parts, while still having the absolute worst ranged weapons system in game.

Kiting is supposed to be a very specialized thing. It is in other games, and what people here have forgotten I think, is that your tank while kiting is not supposed to be your health, it's the fact that the enemy can't hit you. Kiting means staying completely out of your opponent's range through speed and peppering him until he dies. You are not supposed to have ships with massive dps, massive tank, and massive speed because it completely unbalances the equation when it comes to fighting them. Even in the big 0.0 fleets, this game has become about who can be the biggest nano*** with logi support, and that's not how it should be. Kiting should be a solo thing or in very specialized small gangs but should have no application in bigger fights of 10 vs 10 or greater.

So I guess that my point is speed needs to be based on weapon range and not some arbitrary thing based on racial hulls or whether or not you're a shield tanker. If you want to kite, you should have to severely gimp your fit to get enough speed to stay out of the range of blaster ships (melee units if you will). The whole advantage of ranged weapons is that multiple people can put lots of dps on any target at once. To give them so much more speed than close range ships without forcing them to completely gimp their damage is, frankly, ridiculous and is the root of the death of blaster pvp.

Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.01.11 21:38:00 - [29]
 

If you can't pvp in gallente, you suck in my opinion.

what ship isn't op from them? ishtar, ishkur, daredevil, vexor...

maybe a few need a small buff and hybrids need a small buff (small hybrids are totally **** ownage though and buffing small hybrids people will be flying DDs and Ishkurs and ranises so much it will be rediculous)

medium hybrids though could use a little of a buff. large... I have no idea, never trained big guns and never will.

Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.01.11 23:42:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Dorian Tormak
If you can't pvp in gallente, you suck


Like your posting.


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