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Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Posted - 2011.01.07 17:01:00 - [91]
 

Good clarification, despite the fact this was obvious from the SiSi builds... Cool

What will be the "grace period" for not-renewing your character portrait? I guess CCP has some deadline in mind, so after the deadline it would be mandatory to recreate the portrait, right?

Originally by: CCP Bella Bee
Originally by: mvrck22
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Cergorach
Let me guess, you'll have to redo the portrait before you can actually log in with a character. That is going to be a pain for folks doing PI/research/production. (I probably will have to do 10 portraits)

Is there some import option (import old portrait settings to use new system)?

That would be an incorrect guess. You are asked if you want to open the character creator, select no and you go straight into the game.

Also if you have 10+ alts, you can just start the character creator, hit randomize a few times (top left hand side), hit save and be done with it.


Hehe. That is on sisi for testing yes. Want to bet that when it gets deployed they make it mandatory so that in a meeting they can show how many people made awesome new portraits as evidence of awesomeness?

They keep avoiding the question, I hope CSM asked it for the recent meeting, because it makes a hell of a difference whether you can bypass it to do it later, or whether you get forced to deal with it and if something is not as you wanted (because you had a fleet op or something else to attend, or fun to be had) you'll end up having to shell out a plex or two in an upcoming microtransactions iteration several expansions later.



Mashie Saldana is correct, you don't have to enter the character creator on first login. People may want to log in quickly to update their skill queue or their PI programs or whatever, and they should be able to take the time to properly play with the character creator when they have the time.

Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
Posted - 2011.01.07 17:15:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: CCP Bella Bee
Originally by: mvrck22
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Cergorach
Let me guess, you'll have to redo the portrait before you can actually log in with a character. That is going to be a pain for folks doing PI/research/production. (I probably will have to do 10 portraits)

Is there some import option (import old portrait settings to use new system)?

That would be an incorrect guess. You are asked if you want to open the character creator, select no and you go straight into the game.

Also if you have 10+ alts, you can just start the character creator, hit randomize a few times (top left hand side), hit save and be done with it.


Hehe. That is on sisi for testing yes. Want to bet that when it gets deployed they make it mandatory so that in a meeting they can show how many people made awesome new portraits as evidence of awesomeness?

They keep avoiding the question, I hope CSM asked it for the recent meeting, because it makes a hell of a difference whether you can bypass it to do it later, or whether you get forced to deal with it and if something is not as you wanted (because you had a fleet op or something else to attend, or fun to be had) you'll end up having to shell out a plex or two in an upcoming microtransactions iteration several expansions later.



Mashie Saldana is correct, you don't have to enter the character creator on first login. People may want to log in quickly to update their skill queue or their PI programs or whatever, and they should be able to take the time to properly play with the character creator when they have the time.


How about second login?

Also, please address the issue of server renders veing far different than client renders even at highest settings.(Lighting and hair color, including facial hair).

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.01.07 17:53:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 07/01/2011 17:53:55
The issue of loosing all your work by "played with the char creator up until this point, but have to do XY in RL now" isn't solved, or?

That was ONE OF THE MOST POINTED OUT WISHES in all threads regarding the char creator on usability.. to be able to save your work for later to come back to it.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.01.07 18:38:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer

The issue of loosing all your work by "played with the char creator up until this point, but have to do XY in RL now" isn't solved, or?

That was ONE OF THE MOST POINTED OUT WISHES in all threads regarding the char creator on usability.. to be able to save your work for later to come back to it.


That would be a nice feature to have.

Dogo Duma
Posted - 2011.01.07 18:47:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Iamien
Originally by: CCP Bella Bee

How about second login?




Uh, ever heard of disconnects, ctd's, node deaths, login queues, etc? =P

Second login, or any number of logins is really not a good idea. A reasonable timeframe of say 9 months to make a new human being is much more common sense.

Particul
Posted - 2011.01.07 20:05:00 - [96]
 

I play Eve to play at Internet Spaceships. I have no interest in playing Character Creator Online (I could go play STO if I wanted that). Hopefully we can just log in, hit randomize, accept whatever comes up and never have to bother with it again.

PC l0adletter
Posted - 2011.01.07 21:52:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Berikath
Originally by: PC l0adletter

Taking six months to fix a broken UI that should never have been released is unimpressive. I give them no points.


The UI isn't broken. Unintuitive? Annoying? More time-consuming than it needs to be? Yes. But everything works, it doesn't blow up randomly... it is not broken.

There will always be things in-game which may seem to be more urgent than things like new character portraits. Always. Meaning, once the current batch get fixed there will be a new batch which crop up. If CCP ONLY spent time trying to put out those fires, the game would never grow and become deeper.



It's terrible. Just because it successfully compiles, doesn't bluescreen or delete boot.ini does not mean that it's not broken.

For example, ask CCP how many people still use PI? Of those, how many are not bots? According to recent CSM reports, CCP is so embarrassed by how low this number is that they told it to the CSM under NDA and refused to release it.

I agree there needs to be a balance between new content and improving old content. However, you should realize that PI was the 'new content' of the last expansion. They're releasing content that is "unintuitive, annoying, and needlessly timeconsuming" in the eyes of its defenders and then leaving it in that state for 6-8 months. Best of all, the excuse for not fixing it is that there's new content that needs to be released! And when that new content is similarly broken, when will it be fixed? Because there's yet more new content coming, to stack on top of everything else...

Also, I agree that portraits>rockets. However, rocket utility/effort to fix rockets >>>> portrait utility/effort to create portrait generator. There's no reason why balance changes need to be so hard or time consuming. UPDATE weapontable SET explosion_velocity = ###. This takes 2 yrs?

Originally by: Berikath

IMHO, make new portraits "unconfirmed" until rendered on server side; first login after portrait is rendered it pops up full-screen with a "DO YOU WANT TO KEEP THIS PORTRAIT?" dialog, if yes it's permanent if no you keep using the OLD portrait and have to redo it.



Solid idea -- particularly because the "snap portrait" button is producing results that don't look at all like what you see in front of you on your screen.

Originally by: Debir Achen

(1) Quick portrait system. Your first choice is to pick a stock character from about 3-5 options per race. {Option: existing characters can use their existing portrait, at least until it needs to be more than a portrait / Incarna / When the King Returns}

(2) At any later stage, you can play with the portrait generator. You can do this as often as you like, whenever you like, and save as many "complete" or incomplete copies to your local HD.

(3) After creating a portrait, you can apply it to an existing character, at which point it is uploaded to the server and becomes your "official" portrait. You can do this twice for free per character; thereafter it costs (like remaps, except they don't regenerate and you can buy more).



Even better idea here (emphasis supplied). I would retract 80% of my portrait-related rage were this implemented. Let me keep my portraits unless I think the new system is so cool that I want to update them. And, if 85% of players don't want to, how much revenue could CCP expect to generate from forcing players to use it and then having them have to pay to redo it a month or three later?

The remaining 20% of rage would be because, as everyone else points out:
No tatoos, no gas masks, no visors, no crazy hair colors for gallente, no jewelry...
Clothing is, in the words of another poster, either leather fetish or pyjamas
Skin tones and features all look pretty much the same
No save progress, no reset facial features to default in portrait mode (if you mess up the smile or brow raise or w/e it's impossible to revert

Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Posted - 2011.01.07 22:42:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: WisdomPanda
Can we get less:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

And more:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

kthx


I concur, +100000000000 times

Berikath
Posted - 2011.01.08 00:10:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: PC l0adletter
It's terrible. Just because it successfully compiles, doesn't bluescreen or delete boot.ini does not mean that it's not broken.


Maybe we're working under different definitions of broken. The one I use is [url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/broken]"not functioning properly; out of working order."[/url] The current PI UI does function properly, it is simply poorly designed. Bad != broken.

Quote:
I agree there needs to be a balance between new content and improving old content. However, you should realize that PI was the 'new content' of the last expansion. They're releasing content that is "unintuitive, annoying, and needlessly timeconsuming" in the eyes of its defenders and then leaving it in that state for 6-8 months. Best of all, the excuse for not fixing it is that there's new content that needs to be released! And when that new content is similarly broken, when will it be fixed? Because there's yet more new content coming, to stack on top of everything else...
That line of reasoning is predicated on the assumption that there must be a choice between EITHER adding new content OR making balance changes and improvements to previous content. That is quite obviously false; the coming patch includes new content (portraits), improvements to old content (new PI UI), and balance changes (rocket fix). There are multiple teams working on many different portions of the game; raging against team A for getting content finished because team B hasn't finished with the thing you want more already is not helpful, and makes you look like a troll and/or complete tool.

In fact, as I understand it the entire problem with PI cropped up BECAUSE there were multiple teams working on different parts of things. Each team worked really hard on each discrete part of PI (probably something like one team making the planets, another designing the production chain, another creating and materials-balancing all the different BPOs, etc). Once everybody finished they kinda took everything, threw it in a bowl, mixed it up real good, then gave it to a team and said "HERE! Now just polish it off by making a UI to pull it all together. We're going live in a week." The problem was a rushed final release... which ties in well with your next comment:

*continued*

Daan Sai
Polytrope
Posted - 2011.01.08 00:11:00 - [100]
 

Can we PLEASE PLEASE have the option to STOP the motion while sculpting. It is driving me mad!!

Berikath
Posted - 2011.01.08 00:13:00 - [101]
 

Quote:
Also, I agree that portraits>rockets. However, rocket utility/effort to fix rockets >>>> portrait utility/effort to create portrait generator. There's no reason why balance changes need to be so hard or time consuming. UPDATE weapontable SET explosion_velocity = ###. This takes 2 yrs?

Quick fixes are bad, mmkay? They are prone to having unintended side effects, which frequently create larger problems than the one they were intended to fix. The "right" way to do it is to:

1. Identify problem/imbalance. Usually done by the community as a whole.

2. Confirm problem/imbalance is real, and not just perceived. By nature the game has "flavor-of-the-month" ships/fits, usually because they are particularly effective at something. This creates a lot of "ZOMGZ, [current FOTM] is hugely OP! NERF NAO!" static. If it's not actually imbalanced, the masses will switch over to FOTM ship since it's the FOTM... then someone will come up with something particularly good at killing the FOTM, creating a lot of "ZOMGZ, [FOTM counter] is hugely OP! NERF NAO!" static.

That's perceived imbalance. There's lots of it. Easiest way to find real imbalance is to leave it alone for a while; if it works itself out, don't do anything. If it stays/gets worse for a while (several months), address it.

3. Figure out what exactly is wrong. Not always so easy as it sounds. "Rockets suck" isn't the answer here, the answer is "rockets do not do enough damage" or "rockets cannot hit small/fast targets well enough" or "rockets do not have enough range"... OR ANY COMBINATION OF THE POSSIBILITIES!

4. Find something reasonably close to the best way to fix problem. It must both fix the problem AND not interact with anything else in the game to create additional, possibly larger, problems. EVE is a very complex system with lots of things which stack together in ways even the people who created it don't expect. That's a LOT of things to look at for any solution, and there are likely multiple possibilities for solutions on the table. That's a whole lot to check.

5. Implement solution. Can be non-trivial in ways you might not expect because of how something is made; think of a ship in a bottle. Your solution? "Oh, that's easy, the ship just needs to be outside the bottle. Except we can't break the bottle... and we need to use the same pieces for the ship. Crap".

6. Repeat steps 1-5 for the 2,000 other things people ***** and moan about.


Could CCP do better? Certainly, there's always room for improvement. Should they work harder on it? Probably.

Is it as easy as you imply? DEFINITELY not.

Mioelnir
Minmatar
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2011.01.08 00:36:00 - [102]
 

So far every build I've tried had a concerning lack of Minmatar tattoos.

Which, while maybe good looking and all, makes all the characters created with it something else. But not Minmatar.

Uzii Jay
Posted - 2011.01.08 02:20:00 - [103]
 

And why do all the Amarrian males look 100 years older than all the other races and bloodlines, even when you set their age to youngest. I hope for the love of God we all get one free re-choosing of your sex, race and bloodline.

Ytamii Arval
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.01.08 03:20:00 - [104]
 

So, after four straight hours of playing with the Character Creator for this alt...here's what I ended up thinking: Does it make sense that Vherokior women living in the distant future would be copying the hair and makeup styles of 21st century Japanese emo girls?

Seriously. Does this make sense to anyone? Anyone at all? Even anyone who works for CCP? Show us the support for this in lore. Make a single logical argument in support of it. Anyone?

If not, why is it happening? Could it be greed-fed racial tokenism, aimed at the Asian market? They need to put it back on the drawing board, and release it maybe a year from now, as part of what it is--Incarna. Maybe a year will be long enough for common sense to prevail over greed.

Maybe.


Cresalle
Posted - 2011.01.08 04:45:00 - [105]
 

What part of "knock it off" do you not understand?

This is, at best, your fifth "dev blog" about the same feature, which is 2 months overdue and was not looking very promising (read: it was bad) when it was available on SiSi.

Quote:
We here at CCP believe that we are making history - a milestone in how character creation should look and feel in computer games with the capabilities to finely sculpt the appearance of your character with such incredible detail

Then you had better have logarithmically expanded the set of features, because the version we had access to before, even at its best moment was pretty 'blah' in terms of modern 3D character creators.

Quote:
we decided to render all character portraits server side and let the EVE client fetch the portraits from our web-based Image Server

You mean like it does now?

You know everyone is going to be ****ed about not being able to make anything resembling their existing portrait so you're pumping this new system like it's the answer to all of our problems as if we'll get excited about having a new 32x32 in-game icon in the chat window.

KNOCK IT OFF.

We all know it's coming and we all understand why. Stop posting so-called dev-blogs about the same bloody thing over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again in some ridiculous attempt to make us feel better about it.

If you had time to type that SAME BLOG all over again then you should have spent it working on the patch instead.

Good day.

Kira X
Minmatar
Pyramid Celestial
Knights of the Rising Phoenix
Posted - 2011.01.08 09:07:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Laendra
Originally by: WisdomPanda
Can we get less:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

And more:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

kthx


I concur, +100000000000 times


I also support this big time.

CCP's example is TERRIBLE, like some 80s emo band girl/guy, something awful like that. your example of the redhead was perfect of what they should be looking like. and with this 3d modeler they use its not like they arent capable of creating it.

+10000000000 times!

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2011.01.08 11:11:00 - [107]
 

Now go ahead and also put the custom alliance logos on the CDN/Image Server so you don't have to do a patch to include new logos.

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.01.08 12:37:00 - [108]
 

Soon this will have to be remade as well Laughing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKmyIwCJiR0

Chip Packer
Posted - 2011.01.08 16:33:00 - [109]
 

Well this character creator is a vast improvement. Creating the new character portrait is going to be a ton of fun. However, I assume that once it's done, it can't be redone. That would be a shame. It would be great to be able to edit your portrait from time to time as you wish, much as you can with your Xbox360 avatar.Very Happy Just another way to involve the player in the game.

Siramar Thi
Posted - 2011.01.08 19:03:00 - [110]
 

Sooo I'm right-clicking like mad on my current portrait in-game annnnd I'm not getting any sort of drop window, let alone seeing a portrait capture option... Help? Thanks.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.08 19:10:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Ytamii Arval
Seriously. Does this make sense to anyone? Anyone at all? Even anyone who works for CCP? Show us the support for this in lore. Make a single logical argument in support of it. Anyone?

EMO transcends both space and time.

Ytamii Arval
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.01.08 19:46:00 - [112]
 

Quote:
We here at CCP believe that we are making history - a milestone in how character creation should look and feel in computer games with the capabilities to finely sculpt the appearance of your character with such incredible detail


Now, by 'finely' and 'incredible detail' you mean a grand total of two alternate positions, right? Features which can be sculpted generally have a 'normal' center position, and two extreme positions in opposite directions--AND NOTHING ELSE. If you try and get something inbetween, it just snaps to one or the other. I take it that in Icelandic, 'finely' and 'grossly' are synonyms.

If honesty counted, the blog would say: "We dispensed with sliders because they would have revealed how limited the Carbon engine's character creation is, and came up with 'sculpting' as a smoke and mirrors attempt to con our players into believing this is very flexible."

Bet you honestly thought nobody would notice. Laughing

Ytamii Arval
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.01.08 19:51:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Ytamii Arval
Seriously. Does this make sense to anyone? Anyone at all? Even anyone who works for CCP? Show us the support for this in lore. Make a single logical argument in support of it. Anyone?

EMO transcends both space and time.


Typo? I'm sure you meant, greed transcends both space and time.

Creepin
Posted - 2011.01.08 22:01:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Creepin on 08/01/2011 22:02:33
Damn it! I want to keep my own portrait that I like and that I had for several years, and I fail to see why all of EVE player audience should be forced to be guinea-pigs for some stupid Vampire: the Masquerade stuff!

Could I, for sanity sake, finally hear an answer please: why can't those of us, who are not going to use walk in stations (and therefore have NO REAL NEED in new portrait), keep their current portraits?

Dee Tearant
Posted - 2011.01.08 23:47:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Creepin
Could I, for sanity sake, finally hear an answer please: why can't those of us, who are not going to use walk in stations (and therefore have NO REAL NEED in new portrait), keep their current portraits?

Assume that you won't have a choice about walking in stations. Now it makes sense.

Symlin Raahn
Gallente
Killer Koalas
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2011.01.09 00:17:00 - [116]
 

Maybe things will change in the future, but I can tell you that I have been playing several years and in the same corp for a couple, and I couldn't tell you what ANY one of my corp mates' avatars look like.


Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:33:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Berikath
In fact, as I understand it the entire problem with PI cropped up BECAUSE there were multiple teams working on different parts of things. Each team worked really hard on each discrete part of PI (probably something like one team making the planets, another designing the production chain, another creating and materials-balancing all the different BPOs, etc). Once everybody finished they kinda took everything, threw it in a bowl, mixed it up real good, then gave it to a team and said "HERE! Now just polish it off by making a UI to pull it all together. We're going live in a week."


I don't know where you got this information, but it is not correct. The October Summit meetings mention what happened in the initial PI release:

"The PI team was newly formed when it was assigned the task of producing the headline feature for Tyrannis, and as a consequence of their inexperience as a team (as opposed to as individuals), they underestimated the difficulty of the task, and thus the feature ended up having only MUST user stories. In particular, emergent tasks -- unplanned, unforeseen tasks that only become apparent after development work is underway -- grew to dominate the workload for the team. The graph on page 51 of Alli's presentation shows this emergent work (in blue, including bugfixing) crowding out progress on planned tasks in each subsequent sprint. In the end, the team only managed to deliver 45% of what they had planned."

Salpun
Gallente
Paramount Commerce
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:46:00 - [118]
 

Did you see a list of features planned %completed at the summit? Will it be in the minutes?

vitaminK
Posted - 2011.01.09 04:20:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
My new Avatar


That is all.
I'll just leave this here as well.

Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
Posted - 2011.01.09 05:48:00 - [120]
 

Will you please give explicit instructions in how to save our currenct character portrait files (where are they saved?) and allow us to use the current ones until which time either third part or first party servers allow us to experiment for weeks and tweek what we hav saved incrementally.. then export it to eve?

Some characters will be easy but I had a really hard time getting this one anything close to acceptable.


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