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Callic Veratar
Posted - 2011.01.06 18:55:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: PC l0adletter
Information on how to use the in-game portrait capture that you discuss would have been, yknow, useful.

I'm glad you guys think you're "making history" by having a 3-D avatar creator. Whatever they sprinkle in your coffee must be really amazing stuff. Or, dare I say, "AWESOME" stuff!

Personally, I would be much more interested to see you make a quality game by implementing balance tweaks in a timely manner (AFs, black ops, EAFs, field commands... all neglected for years), making PVE content actually challenging and interesting (aside from wormholes), delivering on that industry expansion... ever, shutting down bots with prejudice, devoting more resources to the fight against lag -- seriously looking into multi-threading on the server side, updating or (even better) APIing the UI so it isn't so god awful.

You know what would be really awesome? Being able to engage in a 2000-person fight that was responsive and lag-free. Having more than a handful of ships to pick from that would not be laughed off the field ("hey guys, I brought my eos!"). Not having to click 100 times to batch up 10 identical invention jobs. Having mining be something lucrative and dangerous and requiring of some player skill.

Lastly, how many more dev blogs are we going to have to read about this character creator? We get it. It looks neat, and I'll probably spend a half an hour playing with it. And then what? What, exactly, are we going to be able to do with our new avatars? Where is the gameplay? I mean, I'm as thrilled to support synergies with WoD as the next eve player, but I don't think you guys have really thought this through.


So... what you want is Incursion, Incarna, and the subsequent 3 expansions right now, and believe that CCP is capable of such a thing? I wish I lived in your world.

Balance Tweaks: Faction Ships, Rockets, T2 Ammo, and Doomsdays
PVE: Live Events and Incursions
Industry: PI last release with improvements incoming
Bots and Lag: Do you not read the devblogs? This is nearly constant work.
Multithreading: I'm not sure what you think this will fix. It's a neat idea in theory, but would likely require them to rewrite everything on the servers to prevent races and desynchronization. Especially with the heavy reliance on databases, this would be a nightmare to do.
UI: Again, read the devblogs, there are updates coming.

Fleet Fights: 2000 person fleet fight that's responsive and lag-free? Most things in real life that involve 2000 people aren't responsive and lag-free, let alone one where we're spread all over the planet.
Ships: Find better/unique fits. This is balancing again, though. It's slow, but coming.
Batch Operations: See UI improvements, they're coming (probably).
Mining: Seriously? (Maybe Comet mining will fulfil this desire, but yea right...)

DevBlogs: They could stop writing DevBlogs. But then you'd complain about not enough DevBlogs.
Avatars: Really? "What are we going to be able to do?" Incarna/Ambulation/Walking-In-Stations was announced in 2006. THAT IS THE GOAL.

Elsa Nietzsche
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:07:00 - [32]
 

So now that our portraits will be hosted from a web server, does that mean if the web server goes down, my character will be that awesome white box with a red X?

I wonder what my intel channel will be like when all of local is red Xs.

Daelorn
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:07:00 - [33]
 

You guys better at least add some badass Amarian headgear by the time Incarna hits. That and lots more clothes, hairstyles, tattoos, and accessories that we can purchase.

Also I have to agree that the old Amarrian pic looks better. I don't think it has to do with the levels of realism between the two. One thing I'll miss from the old system is the distinction between the races and bloodlines, they were over the top but right now they feel almost completely gone.

I really think that things like Amarian head pieces/hoods, tattoos for Minmatar, and buddlewrap clothing for Gallente will help bring some of it bad to each race.

TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:13:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: TeaDaze

Also this applies - Uncanny Valley

Nice link, thankfully it's not required to understand a subject in order to link a wiki page, else you'd be rather embarrassed now...

I'd be embarrassed if I was attacking somebody for providing a link relevant to the subject when it was supporting my next statements Razz

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
The characters generated do not fall inside the valley, they are realistic enough in the places that count. E.g. the single most important part of the face is the eyes, which are very realistic both in appearance and movement.

Which explains why some of the bloodlines won't look the same way anymore, their existing proportions didn't look right when rendered with photo-realistic textures.

However it cuts both ways if their full body animations later on don't match the quality of the eye movements etc.

Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:20:00 - [35]
 

Everyone please read: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1435003

The server is rendering portraits in a way far different than the character creator does. This means what you think your character will look like may be far off.

Please CCP, let the client supply the server with our portrait(Upload) at time of character creation. This will ensure our characters look how we want them to.

trjcquee
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:21:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
My new Avatar


That is all.

Well, there's no accounting for taste. Do you seriously want your character to look like that?

Nevertheless.....

Will players be required to re-do their characters before the hi-res stuff is turned on? I'll wait, thank you. In fact, how long is the grace period to not bother with this?

It's starting to smell like the fail is strong with the new character creator and how its use is really, really limited. Now it's also a resource hog, apparently.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:28:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: TeaDaze
It seems to me there is no technical reason for requiring everyone to recreate their avatars as the content delivery network could easily hold the existing static images (as generated for eve gate) alongside the new static images (as generated by the render farm).

I wouldn't want to imply that there are ulterior motives to this enforcement but Rolling Eyes


Ulterior motives? You can't mean *cough* microtransactions! *hack* can you!
Shocked

C.


CCP Bella Bee

Posted - 2011.01.06 19:36:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Aquana Abyss
Will all agents get new portraits too?

Yes

Goodwin
Caldari
Forsaken Empyreal
The Ancients.
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:38:00 - [39]
 

This is actually an interesting concept and to case and point I actually hit this theoretical pit when creating a character for Mass Effect 2. In that game it was really creepy and awkward (started over); but in EVE I was actually attempting to do it for my character in 2003. So, it will be cool to see if I can actually get past the uncanny valley or fall into it again.

Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Mirabi Tiane
You really have no idea how much better the 2001 Amarr woman looks compared to the 2011 one?

Also this applies - Uncanny Valley

Marchocias
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:39:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: trjcquee
Originally by: Batolemaeus
My new Avatar


That is all.


Well, there's no accounting for taste. Do you seriously want your character to look like that?


LMAO - thats a serious 80's hair-metal look he's got going on!

Swidgen
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:40:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Mirabi Tiane
You really have no idea how much better the 2001 Amarr woman looks compared to the 2011 one?

Also this applies - Uncanny Valley

If I'm reading that right, this Uncanny Valley is someone's hypothesis only. No studies or research have been done to determine whether the hypothesized effect actually exists.

Marchocias
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:43:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Swidgen
Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Mirabi Tiane
You really have no idea how much better the 2001 Amarr woman looks compared to the 2011 one?

Also this applies - Uncanny Valley

If I'm reading that right, this Uncanny Valley is someone's hypothesis only. No studies or research have been done to determine whether the hypothesized effect actually exists.


It certainly exists in my mind. Madame Tussauds freaks me out.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:47:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: trjcquee
Originally by: Batolemaeus
My new Avatar


That is all.

Well, there's no accounting for taste. Do you seriously want your character to look like that?




Is this better?
Cool


Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:48:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Iamien on 06/01/2011 19:48:07
Originally by: Swidgen
Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Mirabi Tiane
You really have no idea how much better the 2001 Amarr woman looks compared to the 2011 one?

Also this applies - Uncanny Valley

If I'm reading that right, this Uncanny Valley is someone's hypothesis only. No studies or research have been done to determine whether the hypothesized effect actually exists.


Gravity started as someone's hypothesis.

Petrus Blackshell
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.01.06 20:00:00 - [45]
 

To all who are complaining about the Amarr lady looking drab and like a coke addict, that is really a result of that portrait only, not the female Amarr look in general. Compare this old portrait with this new one. It might be just an alt of mine, but still. Not a coke addict.

trjcquee
Posted - 2011.01.06 20:04:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Iamien
Gravity started as someone's hypothesis.

It sure did. We'll just have to wait for more research.

Quote:
A number of criticisms have been raised concerning whether the uncanny valley exists as a unified phenomenon amenable to scientific scrutiny.

My initial reaction was skepticism. Until such a phenomenon is scientifically proven to exist, I will remain skeptical that this is anything more than marketing fluff.

Notorious Fuzz
Posted - 2011.01.06 20:05:00 - [47]
 

Because the Amarr whined and got their hoods, can I whine on behalf of the Intaki and get our toga's back? I mean, seriously, no toga parties ever? Not having a toga makes Intaki a sad people.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.06 20:36:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus

Is this better?
Cool


Julian Assange?

Viqer Fell
Minmatar
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.01.06 20:48:00 - [49]
 

How long can we avoid updating our portraits using the new charactor creator?

Until you produce a tool even vaguely capable of creating tattoos and suitable clothing and hair options to produce an acceptable approximation of the portrait I have used for the last 8 years I would prefer to simply appear without a portrait at all.

I am guessing we won't get to change our appearance for free when you finish the character creator tool (Soon™ i.e. maybe 2011) and that changing hair cuts or tattoos will tie into the introduction of micro-transactions in eve when walking in stations is released?

Invictra Atreides
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.06 20:52:00 - [50]
 

The characters will look as good as you can make them. Some can do it better and some can't.

Character creation tips/portraits from Hesperius: Link

Viqer Fell
Minmatar
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.01.06 20:58:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Petrus Blackshell
To all who are complaining about the Amarr lady looking drab and like a coke addict, that is really a result of that portrait only, not the female Amarr look in general. Compare this old portrait with this new one. It might be just an alt of mine, but still. Not a coke addict.


To be honest the new portrait looks appalling compared to the old one.

The old portraits had variety and a sense of difference amongst the various distinct races. The new ones just make everyone look the same (within reason) and ultimately remove all the racial distinctions and interesting clothing, hairstyles and adornments, makeup patterns and tattoos.

If I wanted to look realistic and 100% I would just use a photo of myself. No matter how CCP dress this up the character creator is hugely limited and removes a large amount of variety and individulity from our avatars. Perhaps I'd be more forgiving of it's huge gaps if I had any interest in the idea of walking about in a station rather than blowing up ships in space but I don't.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.06 21:15:00 - [52]
 

We need to option to save our "work in progress".

Working one or two hours on a portrait, getting "almost there" and then having to decide if all should be scrapped or accept it even if unfinished because RL call and there is no option to save an incomplete portrait is really a bad choice.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.06 21:38:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: trjcquee
My initial reaction was skepticism. Until such a phenomenon is scientifically proven to exist, I will remain skeptical that this is anything more than marketing fluff.

You can never _PROVE_ something in science...

Still, the theory was made based on actual scientific tests measuring real people's reactions. The latest tests I've read about used doll and human faces as extremes, and morphed between them to get a pretty nice graph. The valley has been shown to exists in multiple independent tests, so it's more than just marketing fluff.

Crucifire
Securitas Protectorate
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.06 21:39:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Invictra Atreides
The characters will look as good as you can make them. Some can do it better and some can't.

Character creation tips/portraits from Hesperius: Link


This a thousand times over. Plus I wanted to quote that great link for posterity, anyone complaining about the new character creator should read that guide and then give the creator another approach.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.06 21:41:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: PC l0adletter
Personally, I would be much more interested to see you make a quality game by implementing balance tweaks in a timely manner (AFs, black ops, EAFs, field commands... all neglected for years), making PVE content actually challenging and interesting (aside from wormholes), delivering on that industry expansion... ever, shutting down bots with prejudice, devoting more resources to the fight against lag -- seriously looking into multi-threading on the server side, updating or (even better) APIing the UI so it isn't so god awful..


While I understand and appreciate where you're coming from, and agree with your concerns in large part, this thread isn't the place to vent. CCP Lopi and the other people working hard on the new character creator are not in a position to affect these things, and it's rude to rage in their thread for something they have no control over.

Side question for Lopi: I messed with the character creator last week (when SiSi was being nice to the Mac) but didn't get things the way I wanted. However, my new avatar got stored. Is there any way to tweak things so I can try creating it again? Also, some of the positioning controls (shifting the entire portrait) were not obvious -- are more cues planned for that stage?

The suggestion for saving a work-in-progress is a good one, if time permits.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.06 21:48:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: TeaDaze

Also this applies - Uncanny Valley

Nice link, thankfully it's not required to understand a subject in order to link a wiki page, else you'd be rather embarrassed now...

I'd be embarrassed if I was attacking somebody for providing a link relevant to the subject when it was supporting my next statements Razz

Sorry, but I can't see into the future so only arguments made at the time of posting apply when considering the interpretation of your statements.

Originally by: TeaDaze
Which explains why some of the bloodlines won't look the same way anymore, their existing proportions didn't look right when rendered with photo-realistic textures.

However it cuts both ways if their full body animations later on don't match the quality of the eye movements etc.

Studies have shown that as long as the eyes are 'real', you can have pretty damn weird bodies/faces while still staying outside of the valley. So no, they wouldn't have needed to homogenize the looks for the sake of the linked link.

Seems more like a shift towards more 'realistic' style in EVE.

Vak'ran
TUIG Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.06 22:10:00 - [57]
 

Interesting. Got a question. Will this new web server approach make it possible to have character pictures generated automatically in stead of having to 'click to generate picture'? Maybe with an upper cap on channel users to limit traffic on the server.

Ze'ev Sinraali
Ataraxia Pharmacies
Posted - 2011.01.06 22:42:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: CCP Bella Bee
Originally by: Aquana Abyss
Will all agents get new portraits too?

Yes


Just going to be hitting the randomize all button a few thousand times? :D

Also, I'd like to ask again as I have elsewhere that there be a function to let us turn off the automatic movement while creating a character. It's a severe resource strain for those of us with already-taxed GPUs.

Thanks, and keep up the hard work!

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.01.06 22:59:00 - [59]
 

I'd like to suggest "recreate character portrait" as an account service, for a PLEX if you have to. The current way of creating an alt and swapping the portraits is a) very unintuitive and complex, and b) requires a spare alt slot.

Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.01.06 23:18:00 - [60]
 

I'll just add my voice to those calling for more variety of hair styles, clothes, tattoos, facial ornaments, piercings, skin color, eye color, health of teeth (it would be awesome if we could have gaps, or a full-on golden grill - GET ON THIS NOW CCP!)

The very focus of the new character creator, as it stands, removes a lot of the feel and look of the old portraits. Hell, I can't even tell the females apart anymore - the amarr girls look like the gallente girls look like the caldari girls look like the minmatar girls (well, with a tan Laughing ).

Also, I too expect that I will mess with Incarna for about an hour, and then go back to flying spaceships.


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