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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.04 13:51:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 12/06/2011 19:25:31

My PI Production Cost Projection (Forge Prices) spreadsheet has been updated to use Eve-Central for current price information.

The first sheet is the most important and labelled PI.

P0, P1, P2, P3, P4
Shorthand for each tier of planetary resources.

Raw materials (P0) should not be purchased and therefore should never be exported from a planet. They should always be processed into Processed Materials (P1) for export. Rows 19-33, Columns M & N shows that P0 goods + taxes have a higher cost than the market value of their products. Buying P0, processing into P1 always results in a loss because of import & export duty.

Columns G, H, I, J represent the production cost when manufacturing (from P1) (Processed Materials).

Columns K, L, M, N
Cost of production when manufacturing from the previous tier.

Unit Cost
Cost of the input materials + import duty + export duty for 1 unit of the finished product.

Cycle Cost
Cost of 1 production cycle or batch.

Cycle Profit Projection
Projection of Profit or Loss from producing 1 cycle/batch. A green background indicates profit can be made from producing that item. Red background indicated the item currently sells for less production cost.

Sell Price at Cost Plus (Percentage Above)
When a item currently sells for less than it's production cost, this column indicated a proper sell price, based on the production cost, including import/export duties and a gross margin of 15%.

Column Group (Q, R, S, T, U, V). - First input component.
Column Group (Y, Z, AA, AB, AC, AD). - Second input component.
Columns Group (AG, AH, AI, AJ, AK, AL). - Third input component
Column AO - Export duty of finished goods.

Input Type - Name of the input material.
Input Qty - Quantity need for 1 cycle.
P1 Material Cost - Cost of 1 unit this input type when produced from P1 bought from the market, the opportunity cost (value) of the input material. If the material is on the market for less than this value then it should be bought not produced.
Component Unit Cost - Cost of 1 unit of this type when bought as an intermediate from the market.
Cycle Cost - Cost to purchase a full batch of this input material.
Component Import Tax - Import duty paid to deposit that component onto the production planet.

The Planets tab lists the P0 resources found on each planet type and provides a very crude index of their relative value.

The other sheets are mostly used to help the calculations and download the prices and can be ignored.


Arcii
Amarr
Secret Squirrel Readiness Group
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2011.01.04 15:49:00 - [2]
 

Thanks a lot! :)

Rohnda
Posted - 2011.01.04 16:38:00 - [3]
 

! so awsome

LordRechin
Posted - 2011.01.05 08:29:00 - [4]
 

I a little confused my friend, even thou i have used this spread sheet i only use from it min/max price, but this spread sheet can be used for much more, can you tell me how you are using it in steps, lets say for a wide comodity like Mecanical parts, and Consumer Electronic, and Robotics. What do you look at first ?
Hope this is not a bad question...Shocked

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.05 14:19:00 - [5]
 

The first post has been updated to include some explanation of the operation of the spreadsheet.

Originally by: LordRechin
I a little confused my friend, even thou i have used this spread sheet i only use from it min/max price, but this spread sheet can be used for much more, can you tell me how you are using it in steps, lets say for a wide comodity like Mecanical parts, and Consumer Electronic, and Robotics. What do you look at first ?
Hope this is not a bad question...Shocked


Mechanical Parts
These current cost 9,796.96 per unit to manufacture from P1.
They current sell at 10,475.00 per unit.
A manufacturing profit per batch cycle of 2,165.35.

Consumer Electronic
These current cost 7,768.00 per unit to manufacture from P1.
They current sell at 5,999.00 per unit.
A manufacturing loss per batch cycle of -9,565.40.
The price at cost plus profit should be around 8,933.20.

Robotics
These current cost 58,549.87 per unit to manufacture from P1.
They current sell at 56,700.03 per unit.
A manufacturing profit per batch cycle of 632.17.

If you look at Column I, anybody can see that most P1 goods are selling for less than the value of their component parts.

Herakales
Posted - 2011.01.05 14:40:00 - [6]
 

does this sheet auto correct pricing from Eve Central. And thanks btw

Berikath
Posted - 2011.01.05 15:29:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari
The first post has been updated to include some explanation of the operation of the spreadsheet.

Originally by: LordRechin
I a little confused my friend, even thou i have used this spread sheet i only use from it min/max price, but this spread sheet can be used for much more, can you tell me how you are using it in steps, lets say for a wide comodity like Mecanical parts, and Consumer Electronic, and Robotics. What do you look at first ?
Hope this is not a bad question...Shocked


Mechanical Parts
These current cost 9,796.96 per unit to manufacture from P1.
They current sell at 10,475.00 per unit.
A manufacturing profit per batch cycle of 2,165.35.

Consumer Electronic
These current cost 7,768.00 per unit to manufacture from P1.
They current sell at 5,999.00 per unit.
A manufacturing loss per batch cycle of -9,565.40.
The price at cost plus profit should be around 8,933.20.
Erm- it's a loss of 9565.40 or a profit of -9565.40; a loss of -9565.40 is actually a profit ;). Picky, I know, but meh.


I suppose you could make a pretty decent argument that goods with another use (T2 production/POS fuel) would need to have a reasonable margin, but goods that are just intermediaries to higher level goods (i.e., components for eventual P4 production) are nowhere near as sure to require a margin. There are people who already have their production lines streamlined to completely bypass importing or exporting P3s and many P2s, so the market on those items is going to be fairly dead compared to the actual amount used; any sizable production won't be able to supply themselves at the prices you figure, so it's a moot point either way.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.06 13:51:00 - [8]
 


The prices from Eve Central do not require any 'correction'.

The impact of import/export duty is negligible compared to the overall discrepancy.

Durnin Stormbrow
Posted - 2011.01.06 15:54:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 06/01/2011 16:09:39
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
If you look at Column I, anybody can see that most P0 goods are priced higher than the market value of their products.


Fixed for you.

0.0 & WH planets yield much more P0 than hi-sec (much much more), but it needs to be moved to market. Shipping product has a cost. P1s have a higher isk/m3, so their shipping cost is a lower portion of their delivered value.

Snarly Pete
Posted - 2011.01.07 07:18:00 - [10]
 

You are a directors wet dream, go put that **** to use at an actual job, companies love ppl that can make excel say things.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.07 11:46:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 10/01/2011 00:19:50
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
If you look at Column I, anybody can see that most P0 goods are priced higher than the market value of their products.


Fixed for you.

0.0 & WH planets yield much more P0 than hi-sec (much much more), but it needs to be moved to market. Shipping product has a cost. P1s have a higher isk/m3, so their shipping cost is a lower portion of their delivered value.



Yes, that's much better wording and I've shamelessly pinched it for the first post. Cool Thanks.

Originally by: Snarly Pete
You are a directors wet dream, go put that **** to use at an actual job, companies love ppl that can make excel say things.


It's always good to have efforts recognised. Thank you.


Ralyndris
Posted - 2011.01.13 05:04:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Ralyndris on 13/01/2011 05:04:32
Edited by: Ralyndris on 13/01/2011 05:03:55
Hi,
Would it be possible to to activate the Make a copy option. I've used the earlier eve-metrics version and I really liked it. I did modify the sheet to show me Domain prices since that is where I go for my Buy/Sell orders


Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.13 13:50:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Ralyndris

Hi,
Would it be possible to to activate the Make a copy option. I've used the earlier eve-metrics version and I really liked it. I did modify the sheet to show me Domain prices since that is where I go for my Buy/Sell orders



If you have a google account and are logged into you should be able to make a copy, if you can't I don't know why.


Droxlyn
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.13 14:35:00 - [14]
 

To find the Best profit, you need to be willing to use from multiple previous tiers at the same time. If you lose money making P3s in the process of making p4s from p2s, then just buy the p3s and idle the p3 processors for that batch.

I've made P1 to P4 planets, but they are a tight fit with Advanced CCs and only run the P4 factory 50% of the time (at least for the hardest P4, WWMF and the other hard one.) This planet had a burn time of 36 hours producing 18 P4s. (2 ports, 18 p2 factories, 3 p3 factories, 1 p4 factory)

P2 to P4 planets generally can support 2 to 4 P4 factories depending on the inputs. These planets run for about 30 hours at full tilt. 2 ports, 16 p3 factories, 4 p4 factories. (easy p4), the medium/hards take 2, 18, 2.

On the other extreme of endurance, A P3 to P4 planet can burn for up to 100 hours before exhausting a spaceport's capacity. But almost a full week can be achieved for a P2 to P3 facility.

Anyway, that's my insanity for the day. Don't limit yourself to buying all the same level inputs if more can be made by buying at multiple levels.

Drox

Bernice 9000
Posted - 2011.01.14 03:35:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Bernice 9000 on 14/01/2011 03:39:19
thank you, it is a very good spreadsheet.

One suggestion though(which I've done on a copy I took) is on the Sale+profit % estimate column, remove the IF logic which states that if an item is already profitable do not show the % increase estimate. For instance, I know Robotics might be profitable, however I want to know how 15% profit looks like(doing this shows that while some things like Robotics is profitable... it is a meager profit.)

With regard to manufacturing considerations... all of these commodities are underpriced, imo..

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.01.14 12:21:00 - [16]
 

Looks sexy !

Might want to add this to Evelopedia Planetary interaction Tools

Nicky's Tomb
Posted - 2011.01.14 16:48:00 - [17]
 

Big thanks for the spreadsheet mate. Good to know it's no longer using Eve Metrics.

Anyone know where "Planetary Vehicles" go to? I mean is there a demand for them? Worth investing in them since they are selling for something like 1/8th production value?

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.01.15 13:19:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Nicky's Tomb
Big thanks for the spreadsheet mate. Good to know it's no longer using Eve Metrics.

Anyone know where "Planetary Vehicles" go to? I mean is there a demand for them? Worth investing in them since they are selling for something like 1/8th production value?


They're only use to make Integrity Response Drones (with Gel-Matrix Biopaste and Hazmat Detection Systems) which is used to make POS/Sov Structures.

You What
Smokers' Heaven
Posted - 2011.01.15 13:33:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Louis deGuerre
They're only use to make Integrity Response Drones (with Gel-Matrix Biopaste and Hazmat Detection Systems) which is used to make POS/Sov Structures.


And new CONCORD capital mods in the upcoming patch

Tapopo
Posted - 2011.01.15 13:48:00 - [20]
 

Very nice. I can quit using the one I made(that does not auto-update).
Many thanks. Very well laid out.

Mavnas
Posted - 2011.01.15 20:12:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Mavnas on 15/01/2011 20:16:27
I remember when I first started PI and I set up three planets producing stuff. Then a bit later I realized that with a handful of manufacturing thingies, I could bypass the whole extraction and make relatively massive profit exploiting the mismatch between P3 and P4 pricing.

Unfortunately, this required too much micromanagement, and it seemed more efficient to shoot stuff and salvage it for delicious, delicious armor plates.

edit: The other thing was that the profits couldn't be scaled up because of the tiny scale of some of the intermediate goods' markets. (This also used to be a big problem in Pirates of the Burning Sea, where theoretical opportunities didn't always payout due to the market being what it was.)

Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
Posted - 2011.01.16 16:05:00 - [22]
 

Will the (global prices) version be modified to use EVE-central too?

And I've modified my copies a bit. Can I make them usable again if I copy and paste the new price sheet into the old version?

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.16 17:07:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 16/01/2011 17:18:52
Originally by: Che Biko
Will the (global prices) version be modified to use EVE-central too?

And I've modified my copies a bit. Can I make them usable again if I copy and paste the new price sheet into the old version?


Sorry I won't be updating the global priced version, the way Eve Central handles global prices quite different from the way that Eve Metrics did and I don't have the time to make the necessary changes or the inclination to continue to support two versions.

You are free to copy it and make the necessary changes your self.

Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
Posted - 2011.01.18 04:22:00 - [24]
 

Ok, since this is new to me, I have some further questions.
Can you point me to some info about how "Eve central handles global prices"?
And could you estimate if it would it be easier to copy my global version (changes mostly to (the price used in) the profit/cost formulas) and modify the price sheet or to copy the new forge version and modify the formulas and price sheet?

And with the forge version, can I make my copy of the old forge version work again by copy/pasting the price sheet of the new version into it?

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.18 14:26:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Che Biko

Can you point me to some info about how "Eve central handles global prices"?



http://eve-central.com/home/develop.html

Originally by: Che Biko

And could you estimate if it would it be easier to copy my global version (changes mostly to (the price used in) the profit/cost formulas) and modify the price sheet or to copy the new forge version and modify the formulas and price sheet?



It would probably be easier for you to modify your own version, since you should only need to change the price sheet.

Originally by: Che Biko

And with the forge version, can I make my copy of the old forge version work again by copy/pasting the price sheet of the new version into it?


Unless you copied a very old version, that is what the new Forge version is, a copy of the old forge version with prices from Eve-Central.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.21 11:21:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 21/01/2011 11:36:53

Bumping thread because some still think they can make ISK buying and process P0 goods.

The first post has been updated with an analysis of the current Planetary Production situation.

Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
Posted - 2011.01.21 20:44:00 - [27]
 

I've successfully modified my own sheets, though it took longer than I thought because of my inexperience in using googledocs and me goofing up but...when I finished my forge sheet, it was a piece of cake to make the global version. All I had to do was remove the region part of the API URL.

So now I'm thinking it was not a code based thing why you stopped supporting the global version, as they are nearly identical. So what's wrong with the global prices Eve-Central provides?

Zircalla
Posted - 2011.01.21 21:33:00 - [28]
 

I have a sheet very similar spreadsheet that I used extensively in the earlier days of the original PI. It was developed with a wormhole operation in mind, though, so there is a slight cost adjustment added due to high volume (P1 materials, generally), but also a raw extraction rate factor figured in - if you did no P2 or above at all (only P1), then your total extraction would go up and even when the p2 was more 'profitable', your ability to produce equivalent units goes down (few extractors, more basic or adv. processors). The idea was to maximize the total actual profit, not just the profit on the unit regardless of units produced. I am not sure that this is figured in here, or is it? I did not dig all the way through it.

Lennvas
Posted - 2011.01.23 19:12:00 - [29]
 

That looks like a cool spreadsheet, althought I have some problems with it. There is CSV HTML Text openoffice excel pdf. As what sort of file should I save it, in such a way that the file is still able to download the corrent prices? And how do I make the file download these prices?

EvilCheez
That's Retarded
FIGHT CLUB INC
Posted - 2011.01.23 19:40:00 - [30]
 

logon to google docs and then click the link in this thread and choose copy from the file menu.


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