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Rinkari
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:26:00 - [1]
 

tl;dr version: risk for going into 0.0 space is nearly 100% loss of ship which forces you to take cheapy ship, rewards are lame in comparison because cheapy ships can't fight or mine effectively in 0.0, this encourages solo players to stay in carebearland and makes the game boring for anyone who doesn't want to get obligated to a corp, read some similar threads, they were all older, is my perception correct or am I missing something?

Full version:
I played Eve years ago and quit after a certain incident, but decided recently to come back. I've always enjoyed the IDEA of MMOs and general and Eve's openness in particular, but I hate having to play games together with other people. The problem I always have with MMOs is that when I join a guild/corp/whatever, I either wind up getting tied up helping noobs and lazy players in the corp all the time or getting stuck doing things the group wants to do instead of what I want to do and I'm too old and too married to get obligated to anything for longer than maybe an hour.

So, anyway, I've tried playing Eve solo for awhile and it's pretty easy and brainless if you stay in carebear central, but that also makes it horribly boring. So I decided I'd rig up a cheap ship and try sneaking into 0.0 wormhole space to try and sneak some rare ores. Made sure my I caught a 9k Navitas on the market and slapped some cheap equipment on it, found a WH, snuck in, scanned down a belt, got about 200 m3 of Hemorphite (because the Arknonor is just too damn massive to be worth mining) on two trips.

So, feeling ****y, I bought a 250k Iteron, slapped some cheap equipment on it and went back.

Lost the Iteron right after it came out of warp at the belt. Somebody had scanned down my ship and was camping the belt for me.

I didn't think it was that big of a deal because, honestly, I thought I'd lose the Navitas before I got any ore at all, so I just went back to my Navitas and logged off for awhile. However, when I came back later in the day and decided to go back in with the Navitas, the same guy was still camping the belt hours later.

And that's where I find Eve fails. I got to thinking about it and yea, you CAN sneak into 0.0 space and you CAN sneak out a few ore here and there, but if you take a cheap ship in you can't sneak much of anything. Which is fine, but if you take a big ship in - whether you're talking battleship or barge - you're putting tens of millions of ISK on the line and virtually guaranteeing you'll lose it just to get a few hundred thousand ISK more than you could in carebear space strip mining or running .5+ missions.

Obviously it's no secret that CCP forces players in this game toward corps (which pretty much negates the only thing Eve has going for it: openness to make your own way how you want), but I want to play solo AROUND other people, not constantly WITH them. Why is that so much to ask from an MMO? I get that it's "massively multiplayer", but why do I have to always be buddy-buddy with all those other players, why not only play around them in the world they help shape?

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it: Eve forces too many people to stay in carebearland by virtually guaranteeing failure for even attempting to leave it, and that means there's no motivation to ever leave it without joining a corp which either keep large numbers of people in high sec or just leads them to quit without ever trying 0.0. Loners should be able to sneak into 0.0, risk being destroyed, but, when they succeed, get away with some decent loot. As it is now, though, loners can sneak into 0.0, but they either bring a big enough rig to do something fun and profitable and have a 99.999999% chance of being ganked by a corp or they can sneak in with a lesser ship, get away with less loot than if they just stayed in carebear world and have a lower risk of getting ganked. Why not even tthat out some?

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:27:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Lady Spank on 02/01/2011 23:31:56
You are wrong.


EDIT: after reading further than the tl;dr your post shows you are just utterly clueless.

Post with your main or STFU.

Rinkari
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:31:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
You are wrong.


No, I'm not

Acrior
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:32:00 - [4]
 

ok to prove a point I just bought a firetail, fit with t2/meta 4 stuff and went to ardar
got to top belt, had a nice fight with a wolf, went onwards to kourm but had to dock because my pet bird flew on my head

so yeah i had fun
you?

protip: 0.0 isn't the only source of fun and faction frigs are cheap and effective
just buy plex if you don't wanna farm, sheez

Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:32:00 - [5]
 

At school they may teach you that space is mostly empty but EVE proves the contrary.

William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:39:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Rinkari
Originally by: Lady Spank
You are wrong.


No, I'm not


A masterful rebuttal, sir Rinkari. I eagerly await your next proclamation of wisdom.

Acrior
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:40:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Rinkari
Originally by: Lady Spank
You are wrong.


No, I'm not

witty retort

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:42:00 - [8]
 

Dunno tbh, last few weeks i have been running solo across wh space, 0.0 and lo sec and it has been the most fun i have had for years. If you are prepared to lose ships and have some good banter it can be great. I found basing from a wh with a lo sec static and dropping into a different part of lo sec every day a lot of fun. People who equate making isk with having fun are missing the point tbh. Ninja mining in wormholes with a navitas sounds as much fun as mining can possibly be to me. If there is no danger whats the point ffs.

Rinkari
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:46:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Rinkari on 02/01/2011 23:46:51
Since it's apparently only going to be fanboys replying to this I'll just say my final peace and let you enjoy your echo chamber:

So many people never leave the NPC corps or highsec because Eve is a game for people who want to spend a lot of time doing Group PvP and nothing else. It's not an open-ended game, it doesn't encourage players to be innovative, and it ultimately locks itself into the same old failed grind-and-time tropes of every other MMO out there.

And that's why so few people play it and why it will always be relegated to a minority status in the MMO world: it offers nothing new in MMOs and the only thing it claims to be good at - freedom - CCP actively neuters.

Oh - and I shouldn't have said "fun". It's not that it wasn't briefly entertaining, the point was that it's unsustainable and will eventually lead to bankruptcy, making it a losing proposition.

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:50:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Rinkari
I hate having to play games together with other people


Why the **** are you playing an MMO then? Plenty of single player games out there.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.01.02 23:54:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Rinkari

And that's why so few people play it and why it will always be relegated to a minority status in the MMO world: it offers nothing new in MMOs and the only thing it claims to be good at - freedom - CCP actively neuters.


Indeed because there are literally hundereds of mmos bigger than eveLaughing

If you fly through any part of non hi sec space the majority of people are running solo. All ratters are running solo, most plexers, most missioners etc. The only parts of the game which are not done solo or in very small groups are sov warfare, gatecamps and hi end plexes (inc wormhole space). Players in npc corps are a tiny portion of the server population so i don't really know where you are going there.

Sverige Pahis
Caldari
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.03 00:09:00 - [12]
 

Blah blah eve's dying blah blah mining in navitas is good blah blah forced to join a corp blah blah forced to play with other humans in an MMO blah blah raging aspie doesn't want ot integrate blah blah make eve open to the mainstream WoW-mongs blah blah

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.01.03 00:35:00 - [13]
 

Quote:
Why the **** are you playing an MMO then? Plenty of single player games out there.


Yeah this.

MMOs involve other people. It's not just "your" game. The word isn't "forced" it's encouraged...you are encouraged to join corps. There's nothing wrong with that either it's a game design...meaning yes that's how they want it. this notion of single playerness in MMOs is getting ridiculous. Why do people believe in such entitlement in an MMO?

Accept that MMO's placate to group dynamics!!!

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2011.01.03 00:43:00 - [14]
 

go play homeworld

nothing at all should exist in an M M O for solo warriors


BellaDonna Nyghtshade
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.01.03 00:45:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Spurty
go play homeworld

nothing at all should exist in an M M O for solo warriors




Assinine statement, equally as bad and faulty as the OP's lame assed arguments.

There is ALWAYS room for rogues in an MMO. They tend to keep things fresh.



Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.01.03 00:45:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Spurty
go play homeworld

nothing at all should exist in an M M O for solo warriors




And yet there IS opportunity for soloing, it's just not for babbies.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.03 00:46:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Spurty
go play homeworld

nothing at all should exist in an M M O for solo warriors


it is possible for a game to have well functioning solo and group elements. Indeed that was the case 2 years ago in EVE.

Alt FTW
Posted - 2011.01.03 01:03:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Blacksquirrel
Quote:
Why the **** are you playing an MMO then? Plenty of single player games out there.


Yeah this.

MMOs involve other people. It's not just "your" game. The word isn't "forced" it's encouraged...you are encouraged to join corps. There's nothing wrong with that either it's a game design...meaning yes that's how they want it. this notion of single playerness in MMOs is getting ridiculous. Why do people believe in such entitlement in an MMO?

Accept that MMO's placate to group dynamics!!!


When oh when are people going to stop repeating this absurd argument? MMO means that you share a gaming universe with other real life players. It doesn't mean at all that that requires necessarily cooperation, especially not in a corp.

The fact that CCP hates solo players, and continously tries to force them into corps/alliances, doesn't mean that the premise/concept of EVE is not attractive to solo players.

I for one love competing/fighting/sharing the eve universe with other real player, rather than simply the AI. However, I do not care for socialising or making online friendships in corps. There is real life for those things.

To the OP: one (I, at least) can still have reasonable fun as a solo player, but it is nowhere near as good as it could be with a few small tweaks. Problem is, CCP has decided that solo players are the scum of the earth, and need to be eliminated at all cost. So don't expect things to get any better.

svetlana
Constellation Guard
Posted - 2011.01.03 01:08:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Rinkari
... found a WH, snuck in, scanned down a belt, got about 200 m3 of Hemorphite ... on two trips.
...

Loners should be able to sneak into 0.0, risk being destroyed, but, when they succeed, get away with some decent loot. ...


by your own description you were able to successfully acheive your goal 2/3 attempts, which doesn't sound too bad.

but isn't it contradictory to complain how repetively boring high sec is when by your own choice you wanted to go to the same belt over and over and over and were upset when suddenly you couldn't?

after being successful in one place wouldn't you want to try a different belt or WH to avoid getting discovered?

afaik everyone in eve is responsible for making their own fun, or misery. sounds like you had a bit excitement there more than anything, which is good!:)





Spyra Gryra
Cruoris Seraphim
Exalted.
Posted - 2011.01.03 01:10:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Spurty
go play homeworld

nothing at all should exist in an M M O for solo warriors




And yet there IS opportunity for soloing, it's just not for babbies.



Yeah!

You gotta be strong and tough and only the best is good enough.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.01.03 01:12:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Spyra Gryra
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Spurty
go play homeworld

nothing at all should exist in an M M O for solo warriors




And yet there IS opportunity for soloing, it's just not for babbies.



Yeah!

You gotta be strong and tough and only the best is good enough.

Tellenta
Gallente
versic LLC
Posted - 2011.01.03 01:15:00 - [22]
 

I tried for a 1 v 1 mackinaw fight today, instead of taking his ice back he relocated further down the ice field. This is further proof that you can not have fun solo in this game. This is rock solid evidence rebuttals are useless as your opinion does not match mine and therefore worthless.

I got 27 free ice thingies though and I didn't even have to mine it! awesome.

Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
Posted - 2011.01.03 01:36:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Rinkari
And that's why so few people play it and why it will always be relegated to a minority status in the MMO world
Haha.

EVE is the 2nd largest western MMO. Only thing bigger is WoW and those free-to-play asian titles that are the incarnation of grinding.

The fact that you can say that EVE doesn't reward innovate gameplay speaks more about what type of a gamer you are.

Take some advice, you will never enjoy an MMO if that is how you view EVE. What you need is a themepark MMO that will hold your hand and entertain you, but make it so transparent to you that even after months of playing you still think it's you who's in the drivers seat; such MMOs don't exist. EVE is the closest you will get.

Even if you happened to find such an MMO amongst the wast ocean of niche MMOs out there, such games require effort. Something you are clearly not willing or able to put into an MMO. They require you to outdo your fellow players.

If you find that the gameplay you enjoy in EVE is not "sustainable", it's because you are not good enough at it, and other players are beating you. That's not to say you are bad, just that others are better; and that is why you see so many people staying in hi-sec. It's not because EVE doesn't reward innovative and out the box thinking, it's because it does and there's not much room at the top.


Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.03 01:48:00 - [24]
 

I rate this thread 0/10

And the OP gets AIDS/10 for the troll attempt.

Jaina Sunspot
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.03 01:55:00 - [25]
 

When I went on a I have to be solo spree I used an Arby for exploration in Low Sec and a second for PVP. It was a lot of fun and in a few months I will have a Pilgrim.

I will definitely go on another solo PVE/PVP spree. I can not wait.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.01.03 01:55:00 - [26]
 

2/10

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.01.03 01:59:00 - [27]
 

Not able to solo?

Lone wolfing in this game is like a trademark for me.

It can be done, and it is being done, every day, by casual players. I have explained how, as have others, numerous times.

One thing is admitted: CCP hates lone wolves. But a true player welcomes challenge. That's what the sub fee is for: playing a game. If they want to make the game harder, then bring it. The only way CCP is going to stop the lone wolf is to come up with some mechanic that has a ship self destruct on undock when not in fleet (yes some will cry this is what undocking in 0.0 is like - but that's only if you are dumb enough to dock in the first place).

Even then, they will still find a way around it.



As for "cheapy" ships - I use a T1 Cyclone for WH and 0.0 deep exploration and using real tactics kept it in one piece for almost 2 years. That ship has earned, at the present hull price I have seen at around 15M ISK each, paid for itself 40 times over plus the rigs and T2 modules (though there is much risk putting that much T2 in a T1 hull - beware). It can be done, and it can be done cheap.

This is one of the great things about this game. If you actually take time to think about things, plan ahead, and don't allow yourself to get so self important that possibilities to solve problems become narrowed, you will do better than many of the other players. It's for this feature alone that Eve does not suffer from the "he who has no life and plays 23 hours a day wins" that makes other MMOs, those grindfests that they are, totally pointless.


Drakarin
Gallente
Absentia Libertas Solus
Posted - 2011.01.03 03:05:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Blacksquirrel
Quote:
Why the **** are you playing an MMO then? Plenty of single player games out there.


Yeah this.

MMOs involve other people. It's not just "your" game. The word isn't "forced" it's encouraged...you are encouraged to join corps. There's nothing wrong with that either it's a game design...meaning yes that's how they want it. this notion of single playerness in MMOs is getting ridiculous. Why do people believe in such entitlement in an MMO?

Accept that MMO's placate to group dynamics!!!


To be involved in a living, breathing, dynamic universe filled with human beings is awesome. It beats a single player game anyday, as AI cannot come to terms with our unpredictable nature.

So, I love MMOs because of their depth, their scope, and their persistance and evolution. I do not play them just to group up with others. The notion that those who enjoy solo play should just go play a single player game is one of a very feable and short-sighted mind.

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.01.03 04:06:00 - [29]
 

Read the very last sentence of what I said... "MMOs placate to group dynamics." This isn't to say "go play a single player game" or people cannot solo....or should not solo. It means that the game is geared more towards group play.

It's just focused that way and yes it was intentional.

MiniMatari
Posted - 2011.01.03 04:22:00 - [30]
 

Qoute;
"I didn't think it was that big of a deal because, honestly, I thought I'd lose the Navitas before I got any ore at all, so I just went back to my Navitas and logged off for awhile. However, when I came back later in the day and decided to go back in with the Navitas, the same guy was still camping the belt hours later."

Heres a really novel idea......stop going back to the same belt! Theres lots of wormholes and 0.0 space is really really big, Be creative, have fun and don't fly what you can't afford to lose.


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