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masternerdguy
Gallente
Meerkat Maner
Posted - 2011.01.02 03:38:00 - [1]
 

CCP has demonstrated that long term players are low on their priority list. They keep making it easier for new guys to get into the game (plex for example) and make it harder for older players (2 minute self destruct, need to be 30 seconds).

But I DigressRolling Eyes
I think CCP should add static bonuses to players for every year they've been in the game. For every year you've played, you get an automatic bonus of 20% DPS and 20% HP on anything you fly. This rewards veterans and gives newer players something to aspire to that can't be bought with a plex.

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.01.02 03:42:00 - [2]
 

But then I'd be able to kill you?

captain foivos
Posted - 2011.01.02 03:47:00 - [3]
 

Ship toasting at its worst.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.01.02 03:47:00 - [4]
 

As always with your ideas: no they shouldn't.

Karn Velora
Posted - 2011.01.02 04:18:00 - [5]
 

I'm assuming this is a troll but, hey...: just about everything is done for the long term players.

Ships and equipment is added more or less on a regular basis that needs higher and higher skills, and are more and more powerful. T2, more t2, caps, some more t2, t3... and so on. Precious little of it benefits new players. None of this can be bought through a PLEX. Skills can't be purchased for money. Look at a T3 strategic cruiser: sure, maybe they can blow a ridiculous amount of money to buy PLEX so they can buy it but... then what? They still can't fly it. And to fly it well? Years of training.

The forums are flooded with suggestions to add T3 *everything*... cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships... T2 caps have been requested since the release of caps in the first place. Give it some time, and I'm sure CCP will cave and give in to all of it - and yes, again, it'll benefit only the old players.

But hey, let's ignore the "stuff" for a bit. Just look at the skills. Older you get, the higher you can train. Maybe that last 5% looks like **** to you, but to a younger player... it's everything. Even when they can use the gear you can, you are still that annoying sumbich who has 5% higher tracking, 5% longer optimal, 5% longer falloff, 5% more armor, 5% more shield, 5% more cap with 5% more recharge, 5% higher speed with another 5% when you activate the afterburner, and 5% less cap use from the afterburner, and 5%, and 5%, and 5%... All in all, being "old" adds up to 100% higher combat effectiveness.

Even the most super-focused nub, who trains only the critical skills to get into ONE ship, and fly that perfectly, is looking at months, years of training. Some day, he may actually get to fly it as well as you - but of course, being "old" you can fly *all* ships that well. Not a small advantage.

So... 20% huh? Well, my account is probably 5 years old about now. I get 100% damage bonus, and 100% health bonus. Great... I'll actually be able to destroy young players in battlecruisers - using a t1 covetor mining barge. Sweet! I can destroy T2 battleships with a single T1 frigate. Fun-fun!

You know why young players even bother with this game? It's the HOPE that some day MAYBE they will be able to compete. Let's take that away from them. Let's make sure that no one can every catch up, no matter what. Let's make sure that every new player that signs up, is forever a second rate player, condemned to being cannon fodder for us. That'll just make people swarm to the game, won't it? Talk about a death sentence for EVE.

Seriously, this was a troll, right?

digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2011.01.02 04:32:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: digitalwanderer on 02/01/2011 04:33:13
Originally by: Karn Velora
I'm assuming this is a troll but, hey...: just about everything is done for the long term players.

Ships and equipment is added more or less on a regular basis that needs higher and higher skills, and are more and more powerful. T2, more t2, caps, some more t2, t3... and so on. Precious little of it benefits new players. None of this can be bought through a PLEX. Skills can't be purchased for money. Look at a T3 strategic cruiser: sure, maybe they can blow a ridiculous amount of money to buy PLEX so they can buy it but... then what? They still can't fly it. And to fly it well? Years of training.

The forums are flooded with suggestions to add T3 *everything*... cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships... T2 caps have been requested since the release of caps in the first place. Give it some time, and I'm sure CCP will cave and give in to all of it - and yes, again, it'll benefit only the old players.

But hey, let's ignore the "stuff" for a bit. Just look at the skills. Older you get, the higher you can train. Maybe that last 5% looks like **** to you, but to a younger player... it's everything. Even when they can use the gear you can, you are still that annoying sumbich who has 5% higher tracking, 5% longer optimal, 5% longer falloff, 5% more armor, 5% more shield, 5% more cap with 5% more recharge, 5% higher speed with another 5% when you activate the afterburner, and 5% less cap use from the afterburner, and 5%, and 5%, and 5%... All in all, being "old" adds up to 100% higher combat effectiveness.

Even the most super-focused nub, who trains only the critical skills to get into ONE ship, and fly that perfectly, is looking at months, years of training. Some day, he may actually get to fly it as well as you - but of course, being "old" you can fly *all* ships that well. Not a small advantage.

So... 20% huh? Well, my account is probably 5 years old about now. I get 100% damage bonus, and 100% health bonus. Great... I'll actually be able to destroy young players in battlecruisers - using a t1 covetor mining barge. Sweet! I can destroy T2 battleships with a single T1 frigate. Fun-fun!

You know why young players even bother with this game? It's the HOPE that some day MAYBE they will be able to compete. Let's take that away from them. Let's make sure that no one can every catch up, no matter what. Let's make sure that every new player that signs up, is forever a second rate player, condemned to being cannon fodder for us. That'll just make people swarm to the game, won't it? Talk about a death sentence for EVE.

Seriously, this was a troll, right?


Just for ****s and giggles....What if said veteran is nearly 8 years old,has practically all the skills in the game,+5 implants + good hardwirings,billions in the bank,and has flown pretty much all the ships in the game,and is even ready for skills,ships and equipement that CCP has no ETA for at all(assuing they ever release it)...What will keep that player,even if he/she is a minority,remotely interested when there hasn't been further game content for such veterans,when even titans themselves are already 5 years old?


Simply training more skills to level 5 on stuff one hardly uses in game at all is hardly what i'd call productive or even remotely interesting,but some are at this stage,so what will some do,simply quit the game because there's no challenge left or out of boredom?...Have they served their purpose?

jade ranger
Posted - 2011.01.02 04:51:00 - [7]
 

The balance of new players can kill old aka the level playing field, I'm pretty such is EXACTLY what keeps older players here.

That and getting new players. The one universe and the never ending stream of a growing playerbase is WHAT KEEPS ME for 5+years now.

If I was invincible I wouldn't play any more, easy as that. I'd go play wow instead were war is about numbers and levels instead of skill and tactics.

-mothermoon

p.s.(thanks for the ban master nerd guy >.<)


Karn Velora
Posted - 2011.01.02 04:51:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: digitalwanderer
Just for ****s and giggles....What if said veteran is nearly 8 years old,has practically all the skills in the game,+5 implants + good hardwirings,billions in the bank,and has flown pretty much all the ships in the game,and is even ready for skills,ships and equipement that CCP has no ETA for at all(assuing they ever release it)...What will keep that player,even if he/she is a minority,remotely interested when there hasn't been further game content for such veterans,when even titans themselves are already 5 years old?

Simply training more skills to level 5 on stuff one hardly uses in game at all is hardly what i'd call productive or even remotely interesting,but some are at this stage,so what will some do,simply quit the game because there's no challenge left or out of boredom?...Have they served their purpose?



Good question.

Games are more fun if you can "get to the next level" so to speak, but unlike WoW where the 40s fight the 40s, and the 80s fight the 80s... Well, we only have the one battleground here, and we simply can't keep raising the level cap forever and expect the game to attract new players. Most people around here seem to hate Wow - and nothing makes WoW more like WoW than an ever-increasing level cap, and more and more extreme equipment. In the end, we all know that there's only one thing that really changes: it becomes easier and easier to kill a nub.

In truth... for an old player it can truly "suck ass". Still, it's better that it sucks ass for a select few, than for just about everyone else. (The needs of the many... a Spock moment!)

Old players need to get their kicks from something other than a new shiny ship. Politics. Monopoly. War. Power. Or just living 100% self sufficient in a C5 wormhole for the hell of it. All those things CCP claim that EVE is all about. Wink

digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2011.01.02 05:09:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Karn Velora

Good question.

Games are more fun if you can "get to the next level" so to speak, but unlike WoW where the 40s fight the 40s, and the 80s fight the 80s... Well, we only have the one battleground here, and we simply can't keep raising the level cap forever and expect the game to attract new players. Most people around here seem to hate Wow - and nothing makes WoW more like WoW than an ever-increasing level cap, and more and more extreme equipment. In the end, we all know that there's only one thing that really changes: it becomes easier and easier to kill a nub.

In truth... for an old player it can truly "suck ass". Still, it's better that it sucks ass for a select few, than for just about everyone else. (The needs of the many... a Spock moment!)

Old players need to get their kicks from something other than a new shiny ship. Politics. Monopoly. War. Power. Or just living 100% self sufficient in a C5 wormhole for the hell of it. All those things CCP claim that EVE is all about. Wink


Many of these players have been in multiple aliances already,gone thru the political turmoil/back room deals/wars too and like i said earlier,also have way more than enough isk too(dozens and even hundreds of billions),so i get the impression that CCP is delaying the introduction of ships and modules for these very old players as much as they can,basically avoiding the sea of complaints on these very forums from younger players because the gap between them and veterans grows even larger still in practical terms,as old players can afford the skills and get started on the logistics right away...


It wouldn't matter if said ships made training for a titan easy by comparison,or if they were 10X more expensive than titans and a lot harder to built too...People would still complain,but "artificially" punishing old players by not having content aimed for them is far from fair too,and they were there from the very start of the game in 2003(and even in the beta in some cases),actively played that game since then,and helped get it to the point is is today...

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.01.02 05:27:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: masternerdguy
CCP has demonstrated that long term players are low on their priority list. They keep making it easier for new guys to get into the game (plex for example) and make it harder for older players (2 minute self destruct, need to be 30 seconds).

But I DigressRolling Eyes
I think CCP should add static bonuses to players for every year they've been in the game. For every year you've played, you get an automatic bonus of 20% DPS and 20% HP on anything you fly. This rewards veterans and gives newer players something to aspire to that can't be bought with a plex.


Horrible idea, unless you want to be instapopped by Marauder fleets.....

EVEs reward is not linear with age, with age you gain a broader skill base allowing you to do more than one thing. You can fill any role in time, if your willing to train the right skills. You can't do that with the same character in other games.


Karn Velora
Posted - 2011.01.02 05:37:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: digitalwanderer

Many of these players have been in multiple aliances already,gone thru the political turmoil/back room deals/wars too and like i said earlier,also have way more than enough isk too(dozens and even hundreds of billions),so i get the impression that CCP is delaying the introduction of ships and modules for these very old players as much as they can,basically avoiding the sea of complaints on these very forums from younger players because the gap between them and veterans grows even larger still in practical terms,as old players can afford the skills and get started on the logistics right away...


It wouldn't matter if said ships made training for a titan easy by comparison,or if they were 10X more expensive than titans and a lot harder to built too...People would still complain,but "artificially" punishing old players by not having content aimed for them is far from fair too,and they were there from the very start of the game in 2003(and even in the beta in some cases),actively played that game since then,and helped get it to the point is is today...


Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Yeah, that's true - especially when you are building an game where you go though a 1-hour tutorial and then -Hey! Welcome to the endgame!

...even more so when you largely build the game to be "longer" rather than "wider". The way it works here is that if you ever get a T2 battleship, you by definition already have just about everything you need for the T2 frigates, destroyers, cruisers and battlecruisers. If you train a T2 weapon for the battleship, you by definition also have access to t2 cruiser and frigate size weapons of the same type. Let'snot mention all the common skills in gunnery, electronics, engineering... If it takes you 1 year to learn how to fly one ship well - it takes you only 1 month to learn how to fly another just as well; they have so much in common. Maybe it had made more sense to make the ships and their supporting skills separate paths, rather than building on each other so much.

I brought the subject up years ago actually, around the introduction of T2. I wanted them to make careers more separate from each other, with less common skills between different ship classes. General idea would be that it would take a year to fully master one class, and a year for the next class, and a year for the next class - and this way you could go on for a very long time indeed, and keep getting new rewards. Of course, the game was already designed in a different way, and largely continues to expand in the same way. Not much to do about it now I reckon: it is the way it is.

CCP are trying though, to "widen" the game as well, adding new content that doesn't appear at the very end of a character's life. Planetary interaction for one. How about exploration, along with gas mining, archeology and hacking. Faction Warfare. Wormholes. Invention. Several ship classes have been added in the "middle" of the range - destroyers, battlecruisers, and later the T2 version of the same. None of these things made the game "longer", or made the older players more
powerful. But... they still gave us something new to do, and something new to experience. I think this is how CCP needs to expand EVE in the future as well. Shiny new stuff, is shiny new stuff - even if it's not exclusively aimed only at the oldest players.

I dunno. Difficult stuff.

Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.02 09:01:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 02/01/2011 09:02:04
Originally by: El'Niaga
EVEs reward is not linear with age, with age you gain a broader skill base allowing you to do more than one thing. You can fill any role in time, if your willing to train the right skills. You can't do that with the same character in other games.

Exactly. There's no game that rewards its players for paying subscription like EVE does. In most games new players can catch up with older ones and train multiple characters to max level withing a few years max. In EVE, older players will have more significant skills to V and will always be more versatile. You're already being rewarded more than anywhere else. Masternerdguy should stop whining.

Ivanna Nuke
Gallente
Holders Of The Cowbell
Posted - 2011.01.02 09:16:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Ivanna Nuke on 02/01/2011 09:16:26
Your tears fuel my pos.Twisted EvilCoolLaughing

Hra Neuvosto
The 8th Order
Posted - 2011.01.02 09:21:00 - [14]
 


Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.01.02 09:29:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: masternerdguy
CCP has demonstrated that long term players are low on their priority list. They keep making it easier for new guys to get into the game (plex for example) and make it harder for older players (2 minute self destruct, need to be 30 seconds).

But I DigressRolling Eyes
I think CCP should add static bonuses to players for every year they've been in the game. For every year you've played, you get an automatic bonus of 20% DPS and 20% HP on anything you fly. This rewards veterans and gives newer players something to aspire to that can't be bought with a plex.


In that case I would like CCP to ban you. It would be a privilege of my old account.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.01.02 09:36:00 - [16]
 

being a long term player is its own reward

CCP Adida


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.02 15:22:00 - [17]
 

Moved from general discussion and deleted spam and troll posts

Scorpionidae
Posted - 2011.01.02 16:07:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Scorpionidae on 04/01/2011 12:46:02
So you want a cookie? I joined EVE because I heared there was no cookies.

Your fat already you don't need no more cookies!!!!

It will just make you fatter.

Scorpionidae Very Happy

digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2011.01.02 21:45:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
being a long term player is its own reward



Having knowledge and lots of experience sure,and passing that on to other players who are willing to listen(Razz),but in terms of personal character development,we're basically frozen with no path to persue at all,so have we accomplished something that many said can't be done?....Have we beaten the game?

Where are the T3 interceptors,T3 destroyers,T3 recons,T3 battle cruisers and T3 battleships,T2 carriers,T2 dreadnaughts,and why not,T2 titans,along with T2 capital guns and missile launchers....We've only had T3 cruisers so far and that goes back 18 months ago,so at this rate,i'll be dead and buried before all T3 ships are in the game,not to mention that CCP's initial plan called for ships up to tech 5 at some point.

Maybe it's their focus with dust 514/incarna that's slowing down the release schedule significantly with the above items?....Old players shouldn't be forgotten basically...

Lupus Pyro
Posted - 2011.01.02 21:51:00 - [20]
 

i always wondered why we dont get a christmas sp bonus.... nothing massive, but just a little thing, only requirement is the account has to have been active say for 2 months previous or for a portion fo the year, so u dont get ppl who abuse it.

Desya Dak'ann
Caldari
No Ducks Allowed
Posted - 2011.01.03 03:20:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Karn Velora
I'm assuming this is a troll but, hey...: just about everything is done for the long term players.

Ships and equipment is added more or less on a regular basis that needs higher and higher skills, and are more and more powerful. T2, more t2, caps, some more t2, t3... and so on. Precious little of it benefits new players. None of this can be bought through a PLEX. Skills can't be purchased for money. Look at a T3 strategic cruiser: sure, maybe they can blow a ridiculous amount of money to buy PLEX so they can buy it but... then what? They still can't fly it. And to fly it well? Years of training.

The forums are flooded with suggestions to add T3 *everything*... cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships... T2 caps have been requested since the release of caps in the first place. Give it some time, and I'm sure CCP will cave and give in to all of it - and yes, again, it'll benefit only the old players.

But hey, let's ignore the "stuff" for a bit. Just look at the skills. Older you get, the higher you can train. Maybe that last 5% looks like **** to you, but to a younger player... it's everything. Even when they can use the gear you can, you are still that annoying sumbich who has 5% higher tracking, 5% longer optimal, 5% longer falloff, 5% more armor, 5% more shield, 5% more cap with 5% more recharge, 5% higher speed with another 5% when you activate the afterburner, and 5% less cap use from the afterburner, and 5%, and 5%, and 5%... All in all, being "old" adds up to 100% higher combat effectiveness.

Even the most super-focused nub, who trains only the critical skills to get into ONE ship, and fly that perfectly, is looking at months, years of training. Some day, he may actually get to fly it as well as you - but of course, being "old" you can fly *all* ships that well. Not a small advantage.

So... 20% huh? Well, my account is probably 5 years old about now. I get 100% damage bonus, and 100% health bonus. Great... I'll actually be able to destroy young players in battlecruisers - using a t1 covetor mining barge. Sweet! I can destroy T2 battleships with a single T1 frigate. Fun-fun!

You know why young players even bother with this game? It's the HOPE that some day MAYBE they will be able to compete. Let's take that away from them. Let's make sure that no one can every catch up, no matter what. Let's make sure that every new player that signs up, is forever a second rate player, condemned to being cannon fodder for us. That'll just make people swarm to the game, won't it? Talk about a death sentence for EVE.

Seriously, this was a troll, right?


Years of training, i've been playing eve 5 months I own and fly a Tengu, with complex shield boosters T2 missiles and 2500 volleys. Its not impossible for new players to get this stuff, its just more diffiicult

zus
Posted - 2011.01.03 03:22:00 - [22]
 

The deferens of an old character and one new is that the new character is specialized in a single faction and the old ones in multiple, that is one way that they gave as a benefit by using faction ships that requires two faction ship skills

In my opinion I think it would have been better if all the ships require having one of the Faction skills to 5 in order to use the ship

Desya Dak'ann
Caldari
No Ducks Allowed
Posted - 2011.01.03 03:23:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Lupus Pyro
i always wondered why we dont get a christmas sp bonus.... nothing massive, but just a little thing, only requirement is the account has to have been active say for 2 months previous or for a portion fo the year, so u dont get ppl who abuse it.


I agree, like last year when we got 100,000 SP with our Primae's

digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
Posted - 2011.01.03 04:28:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: zus
The deferens of an old character and one new is that the new character is specialized in a single faction and the old ones in multiple, that is one way that they gave as a benefit by using faction ships that requires two faction ship skills

In my opinion I think it would have been better if all the ships require having one of the Faction skills to 5 in order to use the ship




And when you have all the ship skills in the game trained to lvl 4 or lvl 5(All 60 skills),exceeding 50 million skill points in that category alone,and another 50 million between gunnery,missiles and drone skills,and another 50 million in assorted electronics,engineering,shield and armour tanking and navigation?

What's left when all races are trained up very nicely and there's 130 skills at lvl 5 already...I'm basically learning much faster than CCP are releasing new skills and forced to train stuff i'll never use anyhow...It's a pathetic situation to be in when CCP's focus has been mainly on new players,and making the experience easier for them to make the game more popular,wich i have no issue with since it allows the game to continue to thrive with more subscriptions,but don't think that there's still enough skills for those that have been with the game since the start,since there obviously is not,even if we're a very small minority overallWink

We're waiting on you CCPRazz

Ksaj D'bong
Posted - 2011.01.03 23:48:00 - [25]
 

why on earth would you make older players more powerful just becuase theyve been playing longer? this makes no sense, tbh the one thing i truly dislike about the game is the distance between new players and old players, if this was elite you wouldnt have skills, you would have your money and your brains
i hate the way 0.0 is organized, the major alliances are entrenched there wich gives no new player groups a chance, even if ccp made the moon minerals cycle and let you mine moons in w-space it would make the game more playable, even tactically speaking, if your moon suddenly ran out of tech you'd have to find a new one and the wars would be more constant and less static making a better game but skill rewards for older players? thats a terrible idea

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.04 00:00:00 - [26]
 

I guess all the improvements to bubble-land and the related toys plus the whole teams working on making the game able handle the geriatrics need of holding hands with thousands at a time has less value than .. oh wait, no major improvements have been made elsewhere in ages (lol-PI).

Now report yourself for making troll posts and have yourself banned please.

Sith LordX
Posted - 2011.01.04 00:39:00 - [27]
 

Long term play gives you access to more ships, more powerful skills, more isk. Its all about more choices. We get to be pretty powerful as solo players, depends also how much isk you make.

cyndrogen
Posted - 2011.01.04 00:53:00 - [28]
 

aww there there, don't you think that playing a game for over 5 years is reward enough?

Most games lose my interest in about 2 months, and I have played a lot of MMO's including star trek online which just didn't hold my interest at all.

So while I don't think your idea is terrible I do think it's asking a bit too much. At the very least a player that has been playing for a year should get a gift watch, or a free crate of quafe limited run items.

I think a trophy would be nice, or some sort of achievement award for each milestone,like your 1000 ship kill, or 5000 mission button, or a rainbow pin for 1 billion veldspar mined.

Loki Feiht
Posted - 2011.01.04 00:57:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: cyndrogen
aww there there, don't you think that playing a game for over 5 years is reward enough?

Most games lose my interest in about 2 months, and I have played a lot of MMO's including star trek online which just didn't hold my interest at all.

So while I don't think your idea is terrible I do think it's asking a bit too much. At the very least a player that has been playing for a year should get a gift watch, or a free crate of quafe limited run items.

I think a trophy would be nice, or some sort of achievement award for each milestone,like your 1000 ship kill, or 5000 mission button, or a rainbow pin for 1 billion veldspar mined.


now those sound like reasonable ideas to me

Judas II
Extreme-Violence
Scelus Sceleris.
Posted - 2011.01.04 11:02:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: masternerdguy
For every year you've played, you get an automatic bonus of 20% DPS and 20% HP on anything you fly.

Neutral


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