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blankseplocked A real community request to get a fully supported Eve linux client.
 
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Ria Antoniou
Posted - 2011.02.14 12:58:00 - [31]
 

Get a windows box for $300? Or dual boot? Whats the big deal?

Originally by: AureuSZ
Edited by: AureuSZ on 01/01/2011 21:05:40
Hi everyone,

CCP tried, with a good effort, to maintain cross platform compatibilty, paying back in the process a little to the open source community (even if not exclusive to linux, open source devs often have roots with the linux world).

Their reason for dropping compatibility support with the linux client is understandable. And I'd like to say I see nothing wrong with their actions from a marketing and technical standpoint, and I understand that the use of open source technologies (stackless python for example) is not a reason to have to "pay back" with a linux client... anyway :

As a linux player, I dropped my subscription two times already when client updates broke wine compatibility.
I went out of 0.0 twice as well considering every big fights occuring crashed my client.
Linux is getting more and more users on the desktop, noticeably more than mac os users considering some sources.

My request to CCP, is to help the linux community more and support an official way to play the game on our platform. I pettitioned already about it but I would like the community to get involved with this.

It might not be a full blown linux client, but at least a knowledge base support and patches support, so they dont break compatitility with the linux client.

Some of the members of the creative community CCP likes to praise in recent blogs are making their best to maintain coss platform compatibility for their eve related tools. Ports are made to linux for some popular tools, as well as some exciting projects arount the android OS. (Aura)

Mac OS client might not have too much technical differences with a linux client. We can all use X11 right ?

On a commercial standpoint, there is a big buzz recently surrounding success stories of linux game sales. CCP might get an even bigger support from the community, and surrounding effects, as well as an inclusion for example, within the ubuntu software center if they decided to give it a fully supported client.

I'm asking here to you guys, what we can do to be heard, and if you know if some actions of this type has been already tried and what has been the ccp answer to those issues so far. Sorry if my english is not perfect ! I'm doing my best to be understood :)

Best regards and have a very good linux gaming year !

Ria Antoniou
Posted - 2011.02.14 13:06:00 - [32]
 

Also if CCP is smart it should be developing EVE for Android tablets... Linux is a marginal group with a total of maybe 20mil users in the world. Android is going to surpass 500m by the end of 2011. Tablets with HDMI output is the next PC. Who needs a PC when you can have a tablet with bluetooth keyboard in 1080p? It will replace your console, your dvd player, your sound system, your phone and your laptop. Intel is going to be out of the game by 2018, the future of this world is ARM/Tegra/TSMC/Android tandem.

Originally by: AureuSZ
Edited by: AureuSZ on 01/01/2011 21:05:40
Hi everyone,

CCP tried, with a good effort, to maintain cross platform compatibilty, paying back in the process a little to the open source community (even if not exclusive to linux, open source devs often have roots with the linux world).

Their reason for dropping compatibility support with the linux client is understandable. And I'd like to say I see nothing wrong with their actions from a marketing and technical standpoint, and I understand that the use of open source technologies (stackless python for example) is not a reason to have to "pay back" with a linux client... anyway :

As a linux player, I dropped my subscription two times already when client updates broke wine compatibility.
I went out of 0.0 twice as well considering every big fights occuring crashed my client.
Linux is getting more and more users on the desktop, noticeably more than mac os users considering some sources.

My request to CCP, is to help the linux community more and support an official way to play the game on our platform. I pettitioned already about it but I would like the community to get involved with this.

It might not be a full blown linux client, but at least a knowledge base support and patches support, so they dont break compatitility with the linux client.

Some of the members of the creative community CCP likes to praise in recent blogs are making their best to maintain coss platform compatibility for their eve related tools. Ports are made to linux for some popular tools, as well as some exciting projects arount the android OS. (Aura)

Mac OS client might not have too much technical differences with a linux client. We can all use X11 right ?

On a commercial standpoint, there is a big buzz recently surrounding success stories of linux game sales. CCP might get an even bigger support from the community, and surrounding effects, as well as an inclusion for example, within the ubuntu software center if they decided to give it a fully supported client.

I'm asking here to you guys, what we can do to be heard, and if you know if some actions of this type has been already tried and what has been the ccp answer to those issues so far. Sorry if my english is not perfect ! I'm doing my best to be understood :)

Best regards and have a very good linux gaming year !

Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2011.02.16 00:45:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Ria Antoniou
Get a windows box for $300? Or dual boot? Whats the big deal?


Yeah, ofc, and while we are making some sacrifices why not also install wow instead of eve? Whats the big deal?

Originally by: Ria Antoniou

Also if CCP is smart it should be developing EVE for Android tablets... Linux is a marginal group with a total of maybe 20mil users in the world. Android is going to surpass 500m by the end of 2011. Tablets with HDMI output is the next PC. Who needs a PC when you can have a tablet with bluetooth keyboard in 1080p? It will replace your console, your dvd player, your sound system, your phone and your laptop. Intel is going to be out of the game by 2018, the future of this world is ARM/Tegra/TSMC/Android tandem



Of course, a smartphone OS with no real userland that is designed as a lightweight OS for low power touch devices will replace a high end gaming pc that usually uses half a kW with games that have no touch interface... It is somewhat hard to see your point. Also Android runs perfectly well on the x86 platform, there is really no purpose why tablets should be limited to ARM and friends.

Xianthar
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.02.16 06:00:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Ria Antoniou
Also if CCP is smart it should be developing EVE for Android tablets... Linux is a marginal group with a total of maybe 20mil users in the world. Android is going to surpass 500m by the end of 2011. Tablets with HDMI output is the next PC. Who needs a PC when you can have a tablet with bluetooth keyboard in 1080p? It will replace your console, your dvd player, your sound system, your phone and your laptop. Intel is going to be out of the game by 2018, the future of this world is ARM/Tegra/TSMC/Android tandem.


Android is linux, its just a custom java interpreter and user land libraries that sit on top of a basically stock linux kernel.

Katrina Bekers
Gallente
Fighters Squadron
Posted - 2011.02.16 15:09:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Katrina Bekers
Q:
Originally by: Whitehound
Sorry, but you are only getting your hopes up that Linux will suddenly dominate a market through sheer excellence.

A:
Android.

Do you want a native EVE client for your mobile phones? Or are you just saying that there are markets where Microsoft has no interest in?

I'm saying that Linux is dominating a market that Microsoft repeatedly shown interest on, with very bad results so far (can't say if the recent deal with Nokia can revert the trend for the marginalized Windows Mobile).

That market is the smartphone OS market, once dominated by Symbian, growing from huge to immense daily (+88.6% Q4/09>Q4/10, 101M shipments in Q4/10). Source

Android is Linux. Source

Septimus Jr
Posted - 2011.02.28 22:56:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: betterdent
If they put eve on linux,

I wouldn't use windows anymore.


Damn, same here!

mrkaczor
Minmatar
Grey Toxic Sword
Inver Brass
Posted - 2011.03.01 14:25:00 - [37]
 

Look at that, we can change sth. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1473944

Morpheus Mishima
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:13:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Karak Terrel
Edited by: Karak Terrel on 05/01/2011 18:44:17
I think you overestimate the amount of people that use Linux on desktops. It is a very very tiny fraction . I don't think that supporting a native Linux Client would be wise. The only way that makes sense in my opinion is to support wine as an official platform. This way there is only one client that supports Win Xp/Vista/7 and wine this could also replace the Mac client. I have no idea why CCP outsources the Mac client to Transgaming, maybe they don't have the know how to support wine.

Another thing is how you install this stuff on Linux. There are some things that work very different compared with other software on a Linux system:

- The EVE client updates itself
If you do this over apt-get or whatever you always lag behind the official releases

- You probably can't just redistribute the Client
Proprietary software usually has some strict policies and you can't repack that thing into a .deb or whatever yourself

- Per user installation
Don't know if thats actually true for Windows, but usually there is a huge mess cause Windows progs try to write some stuff into C:\ bla whatever and there is no difference in "the user" that uses a software and "root" that actually installs stuff. I mean there is somehow multiuser in a broken way in windows, but anyone really knows a windows user that installed EVE as admin and plays as a user?!? Anyway, it is just f**** up and someone should someday shoot the guy that is responsible for how Windows user have to install programs.

In my opinion there is something like PlayOnLinux needed that integrates into the normal package manager frontends (over PackageKit or whatever) so the user can easy install the EVE client with one click. But license stuff may still be an issue and if there is no change in the industry i don't see it happen.

So what CCP should do is: support wine (stable releases?) as an official Platform and allow the redistribution of the client. (Thats actually the easy part)

What the community has to do is to integrate those Windows program installers into the package manager frontends and integrate software like the EVE client into a software catalog for easy installation.

I don't see this happen... There are to few Linux players and there are even fewer of them want to f*** around with Windows software. Cause it is a mess! Did i mention that someone should shoot the guy that is responsible for that Windows program installation mess? That guy is probably also responsible for cancer and stuff.


- The EVE client updates itself.
Why would CCP's own file repository be lagging behind when they are the only ones putting out new patches and maintaining it?

- Your argument is false.

- You probably can't just redistribute the Client.
The client is free to download for anyone. It is proprietary software so it can't be changed. But it's freely distributable for anyone who wishes to do so (AFAIK).
The reason: you pay to play, not to download the client.

- Your argument is false.

- Per user installation.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean here? Have you ever tried to install anything on a Linux system? You have MORE control over who can run what etc. than on Windows.

- Your argument is hopeless. ;)

Do you have any real experience using Linux other than "trying it out"?

Tsero Mohawk
Posted - 2011.03.12 13:18:00 - [39]
 

I would love to see eve online on linux again then I would with a 100% chance use linux more because i don't need to switch.

15% should be enough for making eve client for linux.

I hope more linux users speaks up so we maybe can get it. :D

Ravow
Minmatar
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2011.03.12 15:35:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Ravow on 12/03/2011 16:34:44
Edited by: Ravow on 12/03/2011 15:59:18
According to a petition answer I have from a GM, we have the right to make a EVE package with wine and scripts and put it in our distribution respiratory to distribute it. We have also the right to make live blu-ray with EVE on it and the emergence of working OSS video drivers will make them legal to distribute without drivers blob.

So the community can support EVE themselves. CCP need to just watch wine compatibility with there latest patch but this will not be a problem because they have to do that for the Cider Mac client too, who use a ****load of code from Wine.

I have a script who auto-install EVE dependencies and download and run EVE but it need improvement and
* An update info update so if something break we can say it's broke when someone launch it
* A glxinfo wrapper need to be made so it can tell you to use working video drivers
* It need to be in distribution repistory so can have working wine and + as dependency.

If the script is well made and CCP do is job on Wine compatibility, people will just have to apt-get install eve or emerge -va eve and... type "eve" in a user terminal. Maybe a gtk launcher can be made instead, more candy and can have an icon.

I am creating a bugzilla for it.

Raptor 2101
Posted - 2011.03.12 17:58:00 - [41]
 

I'am decide to start playing Eve cause there was lot of very good responses to wine an Eve. Currently i using my old XP dualboot-installation, cause of some problems with Wine/EVE (dual-monitor-support, AA, CTDs, Freezes...)

A native (or better integrated to wine) EveClient would be great (and the would free me 500GB Diskspace...)

Ignatius Glick
Posted - 2011.04.02 17:27:00 - [42]
 

/signed. linux user.. Ubuntu 10.04 LTS.

Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2011.04.02 22:30:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Morpheus Mishima

- The EVE client updates itself.
Why would CCP's own file repository be lagging behind when they are the only ones putting out new patches and maintaining it?

- Your argument is false.



And for how many of the hundreds of distributions should they make this repository? And they have to be up2date all the time for all this distributions cause you can't play if you don't have the newest version! How realistic is that? There is a reason why the software maintainers don't pack software, the amount of work is just too much.

- Your argument is not even worth to be called an argument

Originally by: Morpheus Mishima

- You probably can't just redistribute the Client.
The client is free to download for anyone. It is proprietary software so it can't be changed. But it's freely distributable for anyone who wishes to do so (AFAIK).
The reason: you pay to play, not to download the client.

- Your argument is false.



So you don't really know but write anyway and maybe in your dreams my argument is wrong? You have no idea about the license policies right? The fact that you can download it doesn't give you automatically the right to modify it (make a deb/rpm whatever) and give it to someone else which is what is required if you want to redistribute it!

Originally by: Morpheus Mishima

- Per user installation.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean here? Have you ever tried to install anything on a Linux system? You have MORE control over who can run what etc. than on Windows.

- Your argument is hopeless. ;)



If you don't understand what i mean why not read it again? I talked about windows applications that are not multiuser aware which is a problem if you try to find a way to install it on a system like linux where ALL the applications are multiuser installations and everything has it's place. confused much?

Originally by: Morpheus Mishima

Do you have any real experience using Linux other than "trying it out"?



You are just a frakking troll aren't you? Maybe you can install and run linux which is not really an achievement this days (ur mom can do that) but you clearly don't understand how distributions work and how incompatible this methods are to commercial software. Not even commercial enterprise software that runs native on linux and supports only a few enterprise distributions deliver as RPM or DEB in a repository! If everything is open source with one of the standard licenses (like GPL/BSD/MIT) you can do whats technically possible and what makes sense. For commercial software the picture is much much more complicated and you can't just do what you want. Come back when you understand this and stop writing about stuff you clearly don't understand!

Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2011.04.02 22:47:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Ravow

I have a script who auto-install EVE dependencies and download and run EVE but it need improvement and
* An update info update so if something break we can say it's broke when someone launch it
* A glxinfo wrapper need to be made so it can tell you to use working video drivers
* It need to be in distribution repistory so can have working wine and + as dependency.



Just a thought, but the eve repair tool uses zsync which is similar to rsync. Maybe it is possible to write a script that uses that source to install/update the client. This way the installation could be done with the native zsync tool, no ugly wrapper script around the installer needed.

depending on how well that works the package could then only contain the installer script and simply "sync" the client on the first launch. That would open the door to distro integration cause the package then contains no "license problematic" stuff at all.


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