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Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Posted - 2011.01.01 12:59:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Hawk TT on 01/01/2011 13:31:25
WARNING: Nerd talk ahead

PhysX / APEX Hair & Cloth Simulation in EVE

CCP uses NVidia PhysX for natural hair & cloth simulations in the New Character Creator. The same technology will be used in Incarna (a.k.a. Walking in stations). Hair & Cloth simulations require pretty intense calculations in real-time and depending on the level of detail could affect the frame-rates considerably.

Recent SiSi builds contain NVidia PhysX 2.8.4, which performs the calulcations either on the CPU or on NVidia GPUs (8xxx, 9xxx, 2xx, 4xx, 5xx series) if such GPU is present in the PC.

If you have NVidia GPU(s) installed in your PC, the PhysX core utilizes them very efficiently and automatically transfers the load from the CPU to the GPU. PhysX also manages the threading on the GPU atomatically. Unfortunately, if you don't have NVidia PhysX-compatible GPU, the PhysX processing is done purely on the CPU, which is much slower than any modern GPU for such parallel computations. The CPU is loaded with PhysX processing + all the other stuff, so you have two disadvantages:
a) Slower PhysX processing
b) Less CPU cycles for performing other tasks

The CPU Physx is multi-threaded, so the more CPU cores you have, the better, but CPU thread management IS NOT AUTOMATIC - IT'S UP TO THE DEVELOPERS TO MAKE IT EFFICIENT. This means that the developers have to take care for optimizing the CPU thread allocation and performance, at least until PhysX 3.0 SDK is released (already dealyed more than 1 year).

PhysX CPU Performance

I've made some interesting observations while playing with the New Character Creator with ALL GRAPHICS MAXED OUT + Super Sample AA 4x Enabled:
1) The FPS varies between 10 FPS and 19 FPS on my high-end machine (ATI Video Card, no NVidia PhysX compatible card)
2) Only 4 out of 8 logical CPU cores are utilized to some 30-40%. So, Hyper-Threading is not really supported
3) In contrast, the PhysX Benchmark FluidMark 1.3.2 manages to utilize all 8 cores @ 100% if you set it up for Stress Test (this is just an example for CPU thread-management, because in real-world if you give 100% of the CPU time to PhysX, EVE would not be playable)

Info about my PC
i7 Core 920 @ 3.6GHz OC (8 logical cores)
12 GB DDR3 RAM
Sapphire Radeon 5870 Toxic 2GB GDDR5
Catalyst 10.12 drivers
Resolution (only for the test): 1920x1200

NVidia GPU owners - Feedback is needed...

I am very keen to collect some feedback from other playes, who have high-end NVidia GPUs or even dedicated PhysX GPUs in their systems - what is your FPS in the New Character Creator and what is your CPU utilization?

Ctrl+Shift+Alt+M opens the advanced monitor (Ctrl+F does not work) and you could click on Performance Tab to gather CPU / FPS statistics.

Results from PC's with i7 Core 920+ / at least 4GB RAM / NVidia GTX 460 / 470 / 480 / 5xx & Latest Drivers would be very interesting. Also configurations with dedicated PhysX GPU - at least Nvidia GTX 285 and up.

Please, post results in the following format:
a) CPU make / model
b) RAM size / type
c) GPU make / model / video RAM size & type
d) PhysX on CPU / GPU (if you know it and if you have NVidia)
e) FPS in New Character Creator @ MAX GRAPHICS SETTINGS AND AA Enabled (Ctrl+Shift+Alt+M -> Performance)

Goremageddon Box
Posted - 2011.01.01 13:06:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Hawk TT
WARNING: Nerd talk ahead

PhysX / APEX Hair & Cloth Simulation in EVE

CCP uses NVidia PhysX for natural hair & cloth simulations in the New Character Creator. The same technology will be used in Incarna (a.k.a. Walking in stations). Hair & Cloth simulations require pretty intense calculations in real-time and depending on the level of detail could affect the frame-rates considerably.

Recent SiSi builds contain NVidia PhysX 2.8.4, which performs the calulcations either on the CPU or on NVidia GPUs (8xxx, 9xxx, 2xx, 4xx, 5xx series) if such GPU is present in the PC.

If you have NVidia GPU(s) installed in your PC, the PhysX core utilizes them very efficiently and automatically transfers the load from the CPU to the GPU. PhysX also manages the threading on the GPU atomatically. Unfortunately, if you don't have NVidia PhysX-compatible GPU, the PhysX processing is done purely on the CPU, which is much slower than any modern GPU for such parallel computations. The CPU is loaded with PhysX processing + all the other stuff, so you have two disadvantages:
a) Slower PhysX processing
b) Less CPU cycles for performing other tasks

The CPU Physx is multi-threaded, so the more CPU cores you have, the better, but CPU thread management IS NOT AUTOMATIC - IT'S UP TO THE DEVELOPERS TO MAKE IT EFFICIENT. This means that the developers have to take care for optimizing the CPU thread allocation and performance, at least until PhysX 3.0 SDK is released (already dealyed more than 1 year).

PhysX CPU Performance

I've made some interesting observations while playing with the New Character Creator with ALL GRAPHICS MAXED OUT + Super Sample AA 4x Enabled:
1) The FPS varies between 10 FPS and 19 FPS on my high-end machine (ATI Video Card, no NVidia PhysX compatible card)
2) Only 4 out of 8 logical CPU cores are utilized to some 30-40%. So, Hyper-Threading is not really supported
3) In contrast, the PhysX Benchmark FluidMark 1.3.2 manages to utilize all 8 cores @ 100% if you set it up for Stress Test (this is just an example for CPU thread-management, because in real-world if you give 100% of the CPU time to PhysX, EVE would not be playable)

Info about my PC
i7 Core 920 @ 3.6GHz OC (8 logical cores)
12 GB DDR3 RAM
Sapphire Radeon 5870 Toxic 2GB GDDR5
Catalyst 10.12 drivers

NVidia GPU owners - Feedback is needed...

I am very keen to collect some feedback from other playes, who have high-end NVidia GPUs or even dedicated PhysX GPUs in their systems - what is your FPS in the New Character Creator and what is your CPU utilization?

Ctrl+Shift+Alt+M opens the advanced monitor (Ctrl+F does not work) and you could click on Performance Tab to gather CPU / FPS statistics.

Results from PC's with i7 Core 920+ / at least 4GB RAM / NVidia GTX 460 / 470 / 480 / 5xx & Latest Drivers would be very interesting. Also configurations with dedicated PhysX GPU - at least Nvidia GTX 285 and up.


my gts 450 runs it on the settings you stated, maxed, at a higher resolution, with better frame rate.


haha.

be jelly.

Ko0koo
Posted - 2011.01.01 13:12:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Ko0koo on 01/01/2011 13:11:46
All I know is that its essentially unusable on my laptop as it is now on sisi. I have 4gb and a dual core processor. So it's the video card yeah.. I'm not getting a new computer for it. I really don't even know how I can justify giving them any more money in the first place. It's just rewarding profound stupidity again and again ....,, urgh.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.01.01 13:14:00 - [4]
 

so CCP said "**** you" to every ATI user?

nice griefingCool

Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.01.01 13:21:00 - [5]
 

I am pretty sure I was running it maxed out on my ati and I did not have any problems. And I only have an i5

Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Posted - 2011.01.01 13:25:00 - [6]
 

It's not about jealousy, nor it is about Nvidia vs. AMD/ATI faboyz Razz

I could get a GTX 480 for a dedicated PhysX card or I could switch to NVidia, but that's in the future.

For the time being I am perfectly happy with HD5870 Toxic and my Eyefinity setup (3rd Dell U2410 on the way). Twisted Evil

Unless Nvidia comes up with a technology matching Eyefinity, I don't see a point to switch - pew pew @ 5760x1200 resolution is more important than walking in stations, at least for me...

Anyway, could you please post your resolution and FPS? It is for the sake of getting real feedback Embarassed

Originally by: Goremageddon Box
Originally by: Hawk TT
...
...
...


my gts 450 runs it on the settings you stated, maxed, at a higher resolution, with better frame rate.


haha.

be jelly.

Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Posted - 2011.01.01 13:28:00 - [7]
 

I don't have problems either, but 18 FPS max with one character on screen, while I am having 100-150 FPS in space with all settings MAXED OUT and hundreds of ships around just worries me.

Could you share info about your HW / SW setup, resolution and FPS?

Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
I am pretty sure I was running it maxed out on my ati and I did not have any problems. And I only have an i5

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.01.01 13:30:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Hawk TT
Anyway, could you please post your resolution and FPS? It is for the sake of getting real feedback Embarassed

Hawk, you're now old enough to not believe in Santa any more and you ask that kind of question in GD?
Laughing

Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Posted - 2011.01.01 13:32:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Hawk TT on 01/01/2011 13:32:47
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Hawk TT
Anyway, could you please post your resolution and FPS? It is for the sake of getting real feedback Embarassed

Hawk, you're now old enough to not believe in Santa any more and you ask that kind of question in GD?
Laughing


Tres, I'm just keep trying, keep trying...You never know... Laughing

Amberlamps
Posted - 2011.01.01 13:41:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Hawk TT
I don't have problems either, but 18 FPS max with one character on screen, while I am having 100-150 FPS in space with all settings MAXED OUT and hundreds of ships around just worries me.

Could you share info about your HW / SW setup, resolution and FPS?

Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
I am pretty sure I was running it maxed out on my ati and I did not have any problems. And I only have an i5



Remember this is only you making a character, Imagine what it's like Jita 4-4 when there are hundreds of people walking around many without clothes. Perhaps mass griefing for those not undocking by encouraging a lot of people to run up an down steps to increase load on peoples PCs?

A whole new way of playing Eve.

Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.01.01 13:51:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Hawk TT
I don't have problems either, but 18 FPS max with one character on screen, while I am having 100-150 FPS in space with all settings MAXED OUT and hundreds of ships around just worries me.

Could you share info about your HW / SW setup, resolution and FPS?

Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
I am pretty sure I was running it maxed out on my ati and I did not have any problems. And I only have an i5



just formated my PC have a ****-load of crap to install, probably get around to it tonight.

but I see your point, that was only one character
anyhow I have a radeon 4870, i5 and 4 gigs of ram.

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2011.01.01 14:05:00 - [12]
 

I've been looking for a reason to dump my AMD card (only a 5850) for another nvidia card.

roll on affordable 5xx series

Joshua Deakin
Posted - 2011.01.01 14:10:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Joshua Deakin on 01/01/2011 14:11:20
a) i7-965 EE 3.2GHz no OC
b) 3x2GB DDDR3
c) HD5850 1GB
d) no discrete PhysX cards

e) 1920x1200, 16x aniso, HQ mip, Cat.AI ADV, 4x AMSAA (box setting) application controlled, Eve running "fixed window" mode.
HIGH settings on all, physically simulated cloth and hair, texture quality extreme. Catalyst 10.12.

60FPS when first entering creator (all figures by FRAPS)
60FPS when spinning the character zoomed max out in sculpting phase
40-50FPS with clothed character with hair, zoomed out, change hair zoom in and zoom out, FPS back to 60FPS (though this depends what hair type is selected).
25-30FPS when zoomed real close to face
35-40ish FPS when in "pose" phase

But when the character is fully clothed and the history bar is full FPS are around 20-25 when zoomed into face portion and during dragging/morphing/sculpting the face FSP drops down to 10-15...

So in short the creator starts being fluid and responsive and quickly degenerates to a slow scrawl.

Select the base hair texture and you can spin the face in close zoom at 60FPS, as soon as you try to sculpt a part of the face FPS drop down to 15ish. I'm fairly certain this is tied to the history functionality.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.01.01 14:12:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Shintai on 01/01/2011 14:13:33
Originally by: Hawk TT

Only 4 out of 8 logical CPU cores are utilized to some 30-40%. So, Hyper-Threading is not really supported



I think you should mention it only supports 4 threads. It has absolutely nothing to do with hyperthreading. It will only use 4 cores on a Phenom X6, a i7 980X etc.

Originally by: Grimpak
so CCP said "**** you" to every ATI user?

nice griefingCool


ATI users could just buy something with more features. HD6xxx is a hotfix for HD5xxx poor tesselation performance, or should we say DX11. Plus ATI cards already have problems in EvE dustclouds etc.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.01.01 14:32:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 01/01/2011 14:33:06
Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Grimpak
so CCP said "**** you" to every ATI user?

nice griefingCool


ATI users could just buy something with more features. HD6xxx is a hotfix for HD5xxx poor tesselation performance, or should we say DX11. Plus ATI cards already have problems in EvE dustclouds etc.


yeah, so let's buy a card that we don't want to buy to make out the most of the game.



...CCP better start using the NV logo every time you startup the client then.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.01.01 14:38:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Edited by: Grimpak on 01/01/2011 14:33:06
Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Grimpak
so CCP said "**** you" to every ATI user?

nice griefingCool


ATI users could just buy something with more features. HD6xxx is a hotfix for HD5xxx poor tesselation performance, or should we say DX11. Plus ATI cards already have problems in EvE dustclouds etc.


yeah, so let's buy a card that we don't want to buy to make out the most of the game.



...CCP better start using the NV logo every time you startup the client then.


Blaming CCP for your bad purchase is silly.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.01.01 14:46:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 01/01/2011 14:46:31
Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Grimpak
Edited by: Grimpak on 01/01/2011 14:33:06
Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Grimpak
so CCP said "**** you" to every ATI user?

nice griefingCool


ATI users could just buy something with more features. HD6xxx is a hotfix for HD5xxx poor tesselation performance, or should we say DX11. Plus ATI cards already have problems in EvE dustclouds etc.


yeah, so let's buy a card that we don't want to buy to make out the most of the game.



...CCP better start using the NV logo every time you startup the client then.


Blaming CCP for your bad purchase is silly.



oh yeah?


FYI I have an NV 8800 GT.


the issue I have here is not because it's a bad purchase or whatever.
the issue here is there are many people that prefer ATI to NV and making EVE using a proprietary physics engine that is only availabe to one brand of GPU's isn't really that great.

CCP could at the very least have an option to turn physx off ingame.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.01.01 14:51:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
the issue I have here is not because it's a bad purchase or whatever.
the issue here is there are many people that prefer ATI to NV and making EVE using a proprietary physics engine that is only availabe to one brand of GPU's isn't really that great.

CCP could at the very least have an option to turn physx off ingame.


PhysX also runs on the CPU. So no problems there.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.01.01 14:55:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 01/01/2011 14:55:53
Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Grimpak
the issue I have here is not because it's a bad purchase or whatever.
the issue here is there are many people that prefer ATI to NV and making EVE using a proprietary physics engine that is only availabe to one brand of GPU's isn't really that great.

CCP could at the very least have an option to turn physx off ingame.


PhysX also runs on the CPU. So no problems there.
it's still an issue of making people buy a specific brand of GPU to enjoy the game to it's full.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.01.01 14:57:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Shintai on 01/01/2011 14:58:06
Originally by: Grimpak
Edited by: Grimpak on 01/01/2011 14:55:53
Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Grimpak
the issue I have here is not because it's a bad purchase or whatever.
the issue here is there are many people that prefer ATI to NV and making EVE using a proprietary physics engine that is only availabe to one brand of GPU's isn't really that great.

CCP could at the very least have an option to turn physx off ingame.


PhysX also runs on the CPU. So no problems there.
it's still an issue of making people buy a specific brand of GPU to enjoy the game to it's full.


So if Incarna supported Intels new AVX instructions. It would also "force" people to buy Intel CPUs instead of AMD CPUs? It runs on GPU or CPU so everyone can use it. You keep running in circles.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.01.01 15:02:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Shintai
Edited by: Shintai on 01/01/2011 14:58:06
Originally by: Grimpak
Edited by: Grimpak on 01/01/2011 14:55:53
Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Grimpak
the issue I have here is not because it's a bad purchase or whatever.
the issue here is there are many people that prefer ATI to NV and making EVE using a proprietary physics engine that is only availabe to one brand of GPU's isn't really that great.

CCP could at the very least have an option to turn physx off ingame.


PhysX also runs on the CPU. So no problems there.
it's still an issue of making people buy a specific brand of GPU to enjoy the game to it's full.


So if Incarna supported Intels new AVX instructions. It would also "force" people to buy Intel CPUs instead of AMD CPUs? It runs on GPU or CPU so everyone can use it. You keep running in circles.
bleh...

you know what, I might be overreacting. It feels like you will only be able to enjoy the game by using a proprietary tech that many people can't be arsed (or simply can't afford) to adapt their game machine for.
If this is how Incarna will be and CCP doesn't have an option to simply turn physx off, it'll turn a good deal of people off because they wont stand the massive fps drop it comes with it.

then again, I'm just speculating and this might just be me overreacting as I said.

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.01.01 15:08:00 - [22]
 

ITT: Much trolling.

I'd regard it as a pretty serious issue, considering nVidia's insistence on hobbling CPU execution with ancient x87 instructions. I am a bit surprised CCP didn't go with a more open solution like Havok, although I hear that APEX is an easy to use development solution. Doing anything to segregate expected performance is never a good idea.

Fulkurth
Posted - 2011.01.01 15:13:00 - [23]
 

I don't wanna sound like an ass.. (ok maybe I don't mind it)..


But hasn't Incarna been like a whole Nvidia thing for AGES now.. and it's only recently people seem to be up in arms about it?

Maybe all those nerf drake peeps have ATI and have thus abandoned the Drake cause for WIS to cuddle each other and rock each other to sleep over the big bad people in Eve.

Get over it already.

Lork Niffle
Gallente
External Hard Drive
Posted - 2011.01.01 15:18:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Lork Niffle on 01/01/2011 15:23:13
Edited by: Lork Niffle on 01/01/2011 15:19:04
I think something is wrong with your high end system Hawk TT.

My laptop gets a minimum of 20fps with PhysX enabled.

Specs:

Intel i5-540M
Radeon 5650M v10.10
4GB DDR3 1066MHz
Win7 Professional x64
15.3" 1920x1080

Your method for determining performance hits is also wrong. If you want to see CPU hits you have to reduce GPU demand to minimal. So running with all settings at lowest and checking the difference between PhysX in the character creator enabled or disabled and seeing the performance difference.

Then checking the performance hit with a system with a PhysX capable GPU to see the performance difference between performing it on the CPU or GPU.

Your low FPS may be a result (and probably is) of high graphical demand rather than PhysX demand

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.01.01 15:25:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Fulkurth
I don't wanna sound like an ass.. (ok maybe I don't mind it)..


But hasn't Incarna been like a whole Nvidia thing for AGES now.. and it's only recently people seem to be up in arms about it?

Maybe all those nerf drake peeps have ATI and have thus abandoned the Drake cause for WIS to cuddle each other and rock each other to sleep over the big bad people in Eve.

Get over it already.
I did called about that same issues a few months back when they said it, but noone listened back then.

Agent 42
Gallente
RADIO RAMPAGE
Posted - 2011.01.01 18:40:00 - [26]
 

Win 7 64bit
E8500 @ 4.2Ghz
4GB ram
GTX580 core/SP @800/1600 vram @ 2100Mhz

I get about 60fps in the creator it dips when something is loading.




Zyphur
Posted - 2011.01.01 19:01:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Zyphur on 01/01/2011 19:29:13
Hawk TT
You've started this thread too early, cause GPU acceleration is not working currently - I can see no performance difference between CPU/GPU PhysX enabled, and my dedicated GTS 450 is showing no GPU load.

Also, it seems that simulation itself is not tweaked properly yet - hair can drop my fps from 70 to 30 (on C2Q 9400), while actual dynamic clothing (amarrian male outer #10, for example), obviously having much more cloth vertices, is running at 65-70 fps (alsmost no performance decrease).

Kyoko Sakoda
Quote:
I'd regard it as a pretty serious issue, considering nVidia's insistence on hobbling CPU execution with ancient x87 instructions.

Actually, PhysX SDK 2.8.4 (the one Incursion is using) is compiled with SSE2

Grimpak
Quote:
CCP doesn't have an option to simply turn physx off

You can simply uncheck "Physically simulated cloth and hair" option

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.01.01 19:54:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Zyphur
Grimpak
Quote:
CCP doesn't have an option to simply turn physx off

You can simply uncheck "Physically simulated cloth and hair" option


\o/

my point is moot and so you people can pass my postings as inane ramblings of someone who lacks sleep

mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2011.01.01 20:09:00 - [29]
 

In my experience, PhysX is extremely inefficient. Of course, Nvidia is fine with this, because it causes people to upgrade their rigs, usually with Nvidia hardware. In Mafia 2 for example, the full Physx with APEX enabled effects took more effort to render than the entire rest of the game! That game also showed the same irregularities in regards to CPU utilization. I was running with 2 of my 4 cores fully loaded, and my 5850 at 40% use during heavy rendering (at 20fps).

CCP needs to put the time in to make Physx run efficiently if they're going to integrate it into the game (at least make sure it can scale up as CPU cores are added). In Mafia 2 it probably was more of a problem than a feature, 1/2 of the posts in the technical forum were about Physx performance.

Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.01.01 21:03:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
you know what, I might be overreacting. It feels like you will only be able to enjoy the game by using a proprietary tech that many people can't be arsed (or simply can't afford) to adapt their game machine for.
If this is how Incarna will be and CCP doesn't have an option to simply turn physx off, it'll turn a good deal of people off because they wont stand the massive fps drop it comes with it.

then again, I'm just speculating and this might just be me overreacting as I said.


Yes, you're overreacting.

You can't take a PS3 game and throw it in your Xbox 360 and expect it to work. If you want to have full usage of NVIDIA's proprietary software advancements, then you'll simply have to get an Nvidia card. If you want some windows games to run on your Crapbook Pro, then you'll just have buckle down and emulate Windows. If you want to use ATI's Eyefinity, then you'll just have to go buy an ATI card. If you want to watch BluRay movies, then you have to buy a bluray player. If you want to watch 3D movies on your TV, then you have to buy a GD compatible GD TV...ffs. EVERYTHING in technology is a trade off... you can't have a one and a zero at the same time.

When it comes to technology, choices have severe consequences! Research before you buy and take that fanboi mentality and throw it out the window. Being a fanboi for something will really shoot anyone in the foot if they don't have the flexibility to switch to what works rather than what sticker they want on the outside of your case.

@OP: No, you cannot just throw an NVIDIA card into your ATI box and try to dump the PhysX processing onto it. If an NVIDIA card sees an ATI card plugged into one of the PCIE slots, then it will disable physX entirely... you won't even be able to push it to your CPU. They do this on purpose to make you buy their hardware.

My advice? If the game you want to play is designed around a specific brand of video card, then you have three choices. Stop playing, play without the benefit of full graphics options, or buy the card that the game is optimized for.

Personally, I'm happy to see CCP picking a brand and optimizing for that brand specifically. Whenever a developer tries to make their game run on every box out there, it ends up running ****ty on every box. Unless of course the game looks like crap to begin with like WoW.. with its polygons so big I can COUNT them on the characters. :)


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