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blankseplocked Why does a Malkuth Standard Missile Launcher cost so much more...?
 
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michaelws
Posted - 2010.12.29 06:49:00 - [1]
 

More than the Standard Missile Launcher? I see so little difference in the attributes of each. But maybe those minute differences are greater than I imagine...being so new to the game.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2010.12.29 06:57:00 - [2]
 

Small changes tend to add up really fast. 1% here, 1% there...

Also, T1 items are being produced by players (and dropped by NPCs), while named T1 (like malkuth) are only being dropped by NPCs which makes them more rare.

Basic economy. Something is stronger and more rare = price goes up.
Now, compare the price of the rarest, meta4 launcher (Arbalest).

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2010.12.29 08:00:00 - [3]
 

yup, anything that isnt T1 or T2 is loot only (meta 1-4, not higher then 5)

Mal Lokrano
Gallente
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2010.12.29 10:41:00 - [4]
 

The Malkuth does have the advantage of having the best fitting requirements of most of the missile launchers, making them handy to fit on tight fitting ships.

tartan pixie
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.29 11:45:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: michaelws
More than the Standard Missile Launcher? I see so little difference in the attributes of each. But maybe those minute differences are greater than I imagine...being so new to the game.



It isn't that the difference in attributes is greater than you imagine, it's that the difference in price is less than you imagine. To an older player who's used to fitting T2 on their ships malkuth launchers are cheap and T1 is near worthless.

The supply and demand for malkuth launchers is actually a good introduction to eve economics, the price can fluctuate quite heavily so if you want to make a quick buck consider putting up a buy order or two. Both station trading in a market hub and buying from mission hubs will generate isk with very little time or SP investment, typical markup should be 100% to 200%. That is probably the best use for malkuth launchers Wink

(Note, setting up a buy order is different from just buying something from the market, you have to use the 'place buy order' button at the bottom of the market window.)

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2010.12.29 17:46:00 - [6]
 

When you right click on an object and so a Show Info on it - there is tab called Variations. If you click on that - it will show you a list of all the items that are similar to that item. Then - down at the bottom - there is a Compare button.

If you click on the Compare button it will open up a Compare Window.

Down the left had side are check boxes for the things you want to compare. Check as many as 10.

Then what you can do is sort the items by these columns. Meta Level is an easy indicator. If something has a higher Meta Level - it is usually better - but not always.

Here - what you need to keep in mind - is what are the requirements for YOUR ship.

You will often notice that Meta 4 items, while not as good in some respects as Tech 2 items (Meta 5) cost more.

The reason for that - is that because the T2 items, while being better - have higher CPU/Powergrid requirements. Thus, many of the named brand items are almost as powerful as the T2 items - but are also easier to fit.

You also see this within some of the lower level items. Two things, say miners, may produce a similar amount of ore - but one of them requires less CPU.


Now - the other thing you can do with that compare tool - is add other things to it that didn't appear in the first list. Thus if you click on another item that wasn't included in the variations for the first item and do a Compare on that - it will ADD that items variations to the list and you can compare them.


There are a lot of things in EVE where you have to deal with your situation at the moment and judge things according to how they effect that situation as well as which things are beyond reach. Different items have different characteristics - some of which don't seem to be all that much but which can add up in the end. What you have to do - is sort things out depending on what you are doing at the moment. Later on - things may have changed - and you may want to do something else.

The price of some items is generally governed by their popularity and rarity. If something isn't popular ... even if it's rare ... the price may be low or the item unavailable.


Lastly ... when you get up to some of the really expensive items - there is a steep curve in EVE about a lot of things. Like Level V on a skill. You aren't going to get any more for getting Level V for that skill than you got for training Level I. It's the same incremental value. If training Level I got you a 5% increase in something - training Level V - is going to get you the same 5% increase. The question is ... how badly do you want that 5% increase? Mostly ... it not badly enough to train the damn thing to Level V for a 5% increase. But sometimes ... every tiny little bit you can improve something is really important ... and it is worth it. Experience and understanding what your priorities are - help in making decisions like that, just as they help you decide if that really expensive module is worth paying all that extra money for.


Now ... the most common reason for someone to fit a really expensive ship - is that they are a mission runner - and they want to get through that mission as fast as they can. Most missions can be completed by cheap ships with cheap modules - but - better stuff may easily let you complete them faster. The faster you complete a mission - the sooner you can run another one. When you look at the amount of money people can make off of Level IV missions ... being able to run five Level IV missions instead of four can bring in a good bit of extra ISK.

There are any number of other reasons for fitting expensive ships though.

Whatever the reason - a consideration should always be - how likely are you to lose that ship?

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

.

Funesta
Posted - 2010.12.29 18:50:00 - [7]
 

Let's simplify.

(1) They are a meta 4 weapon. This means they are used up in the invention process to make tier 2 (BPC) versions of the weapon.

(2) They are recommended to the masses by websites. Thus, people who can't think for themselves buy them.

(3) They are the easiest to fit and require little training to use relative to their power (compared to more powerful alternatives). Thus, many smart people also buy them.


The actual stats on them are mostly irrelevant in terms of pricing. This is easily demonstrated by looking at meta 1 to 3 items, compared to meta 4 items. Meta 3 items are nearly as good as meta 4 items. However, meta 3 items are often available near or under reprocessing prices. Sometimes, meta 3 items are actually cheaper than equivalent meta 0 items. So, the really smart, thrifty person sells their meta 4s and buys meta 3s, until they can use tier 2 items.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.12.30 04:22:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Funesta
So, the really smart, thrifty person sells their meta 4s and buys meta 3s, until they can use tier 2 items.


Except for the cases where the Tech 2 item is actually worse than the meta 3 or 4 equivalent. Check ECM for an example.

In weapons such as laser beams, you'll find the differences between meta levels amount to around 2-5% in individual stats such as damage multiplier, cap cost, CPU & range. Each of these small differences ends up making a large difference to the capability of the ship they are fitted to.

Marak Mocam
Posted - 2010.12.30 05:02:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Funesta
Let's simplify.

(1) They are a meta 4 weapon. This means they are used up in the invention process to make tier 2 (BPC) versions of the weapon.


Malkuth aren't meta 4 but the rest is pretty accurate.

SML - Meta 0
Malkuth - Meta 1
Limos - Meta 2
TE-2100 - Meta 3
Arbalest - Meta 4

Malkuth have the lowest fitting requirements of the missile systems. Arbalest are #2 to fit but they often/usually cost more than T2's and the benefits are far more obvious, even to a new player.

For the OP:
Fitting requirements are important in smaller ships. You don't have much room to play with so every point of grid/CPU counts and small is what every player starts with, so many new players find such things to be the best bang-for-the-buck they can get.

Pan Dora
Caldari
Organization for Nuclear Research
Posted - 2010.12.30 06:43:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Funesta
So, the really smart, thrifty person sells their meta 4s and buys meta 3s, until they can use tier 2 items.


Depends what we are talking about.

Full set of arbalest launchers for a Raven : 2m (around 3% Hull value)
Full set of arbalest launchers for a caracal: 70m (over 2000% Hull value)


Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.12.30 08:59:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 30/12/2010 09:01:36

For reference: Meta 4 that's better than T2 (Meta 5)


EDIT: the list has one error on it (can't edit an old post) F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines is actually worse (uses more energy) than Sensor Booster II.

Funesta
Posted - 2010.12.30 15:59:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Pan Dora
Originally by: Funesta
So, the really smart, thrifty person sells their meta 4s and buys meta 3s, until they can use tier 2 items.


Depends what we are talking about.

Full set of arbalest launchers for a Raven : 2m (around 3% Hull value)
Full set of arbalest launchers for a caracal: 70m (over 2000% Hull value)




Yes, I made some generalizations. There are notable exceptions to be aware of, and I'm glad some posters pointed out several examples. You should look up every specific item and its various meta incarnations individually.

However, it is often the case that meta 4s are highly overvalued compared to their relative power difference - which is why you should shop around a bit in the first place. Every time I see a meta 3 item that's cheaper than a meta 0 equivalent, because the meta 0 is on battleclinic but the meta 3 isn't, it makes me a sad panda.

Dani WH
Posted - 2010.12.30 21:27:00 - [13]
 

meta4 items are usually more interesting than T2 items, because:

- less skills required
- less CPU/Powergrid needed


pilots are willing to pay high amounts for these advantages. In addition, the supply is reduced because people usually manufacture T1 or T2, and/or its expensive and rare to do meta4 items.


 

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