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CCP Atlas

Posted - 2010.12.27 22:26:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Alice Celadon
Comments like this make me think you don't really play EVE, or at the very least have never attempted to fit a 10/10 tanking ship or pimp solo ship. Currently, if I want to find a good deal on a deadspace EM hardener, I have to type the following into the contract search window:

Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Core X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpus A-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus A-Type Armor EM Hardener
Core A-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpus B-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus B-Type Armor EM Hardener
Core B-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpus C-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor EM Hardener
Core C-Type Armor EM Hardener

Just search for "-Type Armor EM Hardener" and you will be fine.


Yes, if I was going to fit a 10/10 tanking ship or pimp solo ship that's what I would put into the new contract search...

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.12.27 22:39:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 27/12/2010 22:40:14
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
That said, one minor complaint. Why do charges in guns need to be unloaded at all? To cargo is vastly better than to hangar(though I have to ask about the interaction with cargo size limits - does it overfill the cargo or overflow it?), but I don't see why it needs to happen at all.


If the cargo becomes overloaded with the addition of the charges then you cannot create the contract.

The reason for the 'remove charges' restriction in contracts is of a technical nature since these types of loaded charges are not proper inventory items due to an optimization they cannot be properly included in the contract without first removing them.


</3

Can there be some sort of workaround for this? Perhaps a "This will make the cargo too full, would you like to unload to hangar instead?" box? Because there will be some situations where the new system will actually be more annoying than the old. Alternately, just check whether the cargo's over-full before the charges are pulled out and not after - it'll just force the buyer to reload the guns or ditch some cargo before they can undock, which is acceptable IMO.

Originally by: Alice Celadon
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: Gil Danastre
I don't know if the system would support it, but would it be possible to be able to filter contracts based on their meta level tier? Like say i'm looking for some faction armor hardeners. I choose an option to only show "faction" items, or to exclude anything below faction. One option would limit it to show faction items only, the other would show faction, deadspace, and officer items, but not t1/t2/storyline.

It seems pretty specific but if there is enough support for it, we might be able to add this sort of search criteria.


Comments like this make me think you don't really play EVE, or at the very least have never attempted to fit a 10/10 tanking ship or pimp solo ship. Currently, if I want to find a good deal on a deadspace EM hardener, I have to type the following into the contract search window:

Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Core X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpus A-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus A-Type Armor EM Hardener
Core A-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpus B-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus B-Type Armor EM Hardener
Core B-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpus C-Type Armor EM Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor EM Hardener
Core C-Type Armor EM Hardener


No, you have to type "Type Armor EM" into the search window. Doesn't work now, but will after the changes. You missed the line in the dev blog where you can search for everything matching the string at once.

That said, I'd totally be down for a Meta Level >= and a Meta Level <= entry box, just so that I can search faction, deadspace, and officer all at once.

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2010.12.27 22:40:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Doctor Mabuse
But can we accept our own courier contracts yet?

Or do I still have to contract all my ships to an alt to be able to take them anywhere in my freighter?

Using contracts for this is more complicated than we need for that specific functionality - ideally we should be able to right click on assembled ships and 'Wrap For Shipping' to get an instant wrapped version.

Or simply allow assembled ships to fit in cargo....

Deadly Hobbitses
Caldari
Furry Footed Felons
Posted - 2010.12.27 22:50:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
ideally we should be able to right click on assembled ships and 'Wrap For Shipping' to get an instant wrapped version.

Or simply allow assembled ships to fit in cargo....


Ideally, ORE would give us a better alternative in the form of a transport vessel of capital proportions that shares the ability to enter highsec with jump freighters. It would also give CCP a reason to revisit carriers as the majority of them are glorified transports(or ravens) as it is, albeit gimped in the amount of ships they can haul around. Plz gief 5Mm3 SMA space ORE supertransport! Hopefully with enough tank to make suiciding it ill-advised. YARRRR!!


Mad propellorz on putting nice changes in subsequent patches tho.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2010.12.27 22:52:00 - [65]
 

Fantastic changes, really looking forward to them, will make getting stuff much easier! :D


also, when is LP store getting updated? it sadly needs it far, far more than contracts.... you try and cash in millions of LP's this way: scroll to item -> click -> store refreshes itself (slow) -> repeat WAY WAY to many times... and no search...
And i don't even run many missions...Laughing



Very Happy


Athena Silk
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.12.27 23:38:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Doctor Mabuse
Originally by: Mashie Saldana

Just search for "-Type Armor EM Hardener" and you will be fine.

Unfortunately you still have to select each individual type from the 'select item type' window. Rather than being able to search for 'all EM Armor Hardeners, Meta 12 and above'

With the new contract system, you'll have the option to search for any item matching a string, so if you enter "type Armor EM Hardener", you will get results for any X-, A-, B- and C-Type EM Hardener.

It would be nice if there was an option to limit the meta level (or limit to Meta0-5, storyline only, faction only, deadspace only, officer only), so that if you're searching for say a cheap faction explosive hardener, you'll be able to see all the faction hardeners of that type, without having the search cluttered up with deadspace, T1, named, etc modules.

But all in all, some excellent changes. Being able to copy-paste contracts is awesome, Right Click > Find in Contracts is a god send, and the new search changes should be great.

Noun Verber
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.28 00:15:00 - [67]
 

Do you have an expected (non binding) time for it to enter its full version, or will the few patches end up like eve gate and still be in beta 1 year later?

Nova Lux
Gallente
TalCorp Enterprises
TalCorp United Federation
Posted - 2010.12.28 00:50:00 - [68]
 

Just wanted to pop in and say:
Tried it, loved it, looking forward to it.








Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.12.28 00:55:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 28/12/2010 00:55:07
Who are you and what did you do to CCP? This stuff is weirding me out.


Is this an effort to fix and improve old and half-functioning system as a response to 18 months? If yes, I'd like to inform you that it's working. Smile

+3 Batos. Now keep it up, you got work to do on a lot of areas that are impairing the fun I could have in Eve. *cough*scaps*cough*dominion*cough*

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2010.12.28 03:01:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Morolen1
now if only we could contract(or eve trade) kill rights :D


This. Make kill rights something you can redeem as an item in hangar and then contractable.

Otherwise, awesome blog, especially this:

Quote:
Damaged Items

Damaged items can now be put into all contracts. If an item is damaged it is displayed in the Contract Details window. This applies to all items and all contract types. No more hassle with contracting ships containing T2 crystals!

Misha Moon
Frog Morton Industries
Anuran Origin
Posted - 2010.12.28 03:09:00 - [71]
 

Is it much or little hassle to make range include "Current Constellation"? - I have missed this option often. If it's already in there then pardon me, I have not looked very closely yet, but really would like this option as system - region is a big leap in my book sometimes, depending on what I am looking for.

-Misha

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.12.28 03:23:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 28/12/2010 03:29:06
Two very simple adjustments, that could bring existing search to the usable state and reduce contract scam:
1. Put an extra field in serach options - "Offer/Demand", that would tremendously help in filtering idiots off the picture.
2. In contract view, group offers and demands together each. I.e.

-------------------------
...contract details...
-------------------------
Offered items/money
-------------------------
Demanded items/money.
-------------------------

Instead of current mess.

SirHarryPierce
Posted - 2010.12.28 04:37:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: SirHarryPierce on 28/12/2010 04:41:45
Edited by: SirHarryPierce on 28/12/2010 04:37:05
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: Jacktasci
The improvement I would like to see comes in the form of Notifications.

Currently whenever a contract is made available to the entire corp the icon on the side does not light up for every member in the corp. Also all corp members do not see that there are contracts assigned to the corporation on the contract "Start" screen. Currently only CEOs and Directors get these 2 feature it seems.

Can you add a feature that notifies everyone in the corp when there is a contract assigned to the corporation (or alliance) and allow said contracts to appears on the contract "Start" screen much like it does for the corp CEO and Directors?


We don't particularly care for features that push updates to potentially thousands of clients at once. I'm afraid that for now at least people will need to look this up themselves instead of getting it pushed to them.

Showing contracts assigned to your corp or alliance on the contracts start page for every corp member might be feasible though. Let me ask around.


Can you not just make a menu where a director can make a push list manually, where the director can add and delete members involved in the corporation / alliance contracts handling? That way the load should be handled easily, not?

Trimutius III
Avalon Guards
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2010.12.28 05:09:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Trimutius III on 28/12/2010 05:17:33
Edited by: Trimutius III on 28/12/2010 05:16:19

I say that if u are talking about "filtering scammers" Then it should be possible to filter out Want To Buy contracts that are several times cheaper then most expensive Want to buy contract. And Selling contracts that are several time more expensive then the cheapest Selling contract. Of course it is only possible for 1 item contracts, but this feature would be pretty useful if u need to filter out all that useless junk... (Though this feature probably will be useless for blueprint copies)

And also it would be nice to be able to search for only Blueprint copies or only Blueprint originals. (and totally perfect if it was possible to search for a specific numbers of runs or ME or PE (like More or equal to X, or Less or equal to X)
Actually when I need to buy something for my corporation through contracts it is usually blueprints, so some feature connected to them would be pretty handy...

Molic Blackbird
Gallente
Orion Faction Industries
Posted - 2010.12.28 05:38:00 - [75]
 

I would love to see this search added to our finished contracts. With completed contracts in the thousands and no contract API, finding specific contracts is a vary time consuming and tedious task.

Sed Man
Gallente
Havoc Violence and Chaos
Posted - 2010.12.28 06:35:00 - [76]
 

One feature I have been missing is 'show all active public contracts from'.
I can filter out all the contracts from X, but I cant work out how to show all contracts from X. It seems I can see all contracts completed by X but not active public contracts from X.

Or have I just not worked out how to do it?

freak fantom
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.12.28 06:43:00 - [77]
 

We need a new type of Contracts enabling to kill someone for some price! Twisted Evil

Titus Modius
Posted - 2010.12.28 07:17:00 - [78]
 

One nice feature of the old loan contracts was that if the corp loaned out a corp insured ship, it could be loaned to anyone in the alliance, and the loaning corp would still collect insurance. Any possibility of a replacement for this functionality in the new system?

Also is there any chance of adding some constraints on how contracts might be able to be accepted when creating the contracts? For instance, it would be nice to be able to post 10 battleship contracts for corp members, but only allow someone to claim N of them within a certain time period. The only current alternatives are to contract them to individuals, or accept that anyone in the corp with any access level or roles could claim them all.

How about being able to contract to a "mailing list" of people so that at least you could create a subset of "trusted" people who could claim the contract? That way you could make some available to pilots with frigate clearance, another group with cruiser clearance, etc

Mad Ilya
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.28 07:18:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Mad Ilya on 28/12/2010 07:19:37
Cool stuff, one more thing I'd like to see: (sry if i overlooked and missed this in the blog, morning and all..)

* Search filter/server side sort by item meta level

This would allow to find those nice faction/officer mods without going through all the T2/T1 stuff that match the other search criterias. Partial search helps with officer mods (search 'modified') but try finding faction Power Diagnostic Unit or Ballistic Control Unit..

Edit: ah well it was discussed few posts earlier Laughing

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2010.12.28 09:36:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: "CCP Atlas"
As you may also notice, the list contains information about the region name if the contract is outside your own region and also shows the security level of the systems in question.


So no more nul-sec undockable named-station courier scams?

No, I have never fallen for it. Just pointing it out.

Myyona
Minmatar
Ataraxia Pharmacies
Posted - 2010.12.28 10:29:00 - [81]
 

Ability to copy contracts?!?Shocked

Thank you, All Mighty.

CCP Atlas

Posted - 2010.12.28 11:07:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Titus Modius
One nice feature of the old loan contracts was that if the corp loaned out a corp insured ship, it could be loaned to anyone in the alliance, and the loaning corp would still collect insurance. Any possibility of a replacement for this functionality in the new system?

Corp-insured ships should now never have their insurance voided when they are contracted so you can use Item Exchange contracts for this.

CCP Atlas

Posted - 2010.12.28 11:09:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Molic Blackbird
I would love to see this search added to our finished contracts. With completed contracts in the thousands and no contract API, finding specific contracts is a vary time consuming and tedious task.

That is probably not going to happen within the client, at least in the foreseeable future but with the Contracts API that's on our roadmap it will make things much easier for the conglomerate contractors out there.

Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
Posted - 2010.12.28 11:16:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Che Biko on 28/12/2010 11:18:07
Edited by: Che Biko on 28/12/2010 11:16:30
Originally by: Che Biko
One thing I'd like to see though, is to be able to search for (courier) contracts that are along your autopilot route, so that when I go from A to E via B-C-D I'll get the contracts that need to go from A-E or B-D, etc, and not the ones from/to F-Z. But I'm guessing this is to much server load.

So, uhm, did I guess rightQuestion

And will we be able to select multiple regions/constellations/systems in a single search (for courier contracts)?

Robdon
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.12.28 11:29:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: Catari Taga
Good changes. Re private contracts: I don't see why you would want to keep 2 different interfaces around, that just makes no sense. Sounds like code could be optimized to point to the same backend and client code for both types of contracts instead of currently apparently using separate code bases.


That is a good observation, but when looking at the usage patterns we found that treating the two types of contract availabilities separate gives us a lot of benefit.

The public and private contracts are two very different beasts with different needs and optimization opportunities. For example, most public contract searches are made from a single place, Jita. In contracts, private contract searches are made throughout the cosmos. Public contract searches are most often made on a particular category, group or type, whereas private searches are almost exclusively done on 'show me all the contracts for me/corp/alliance' basis. From the metrics gathered from TQ it seems like the advanced search capabilities of the new search would hardly be used at all for private contracts.

So these are very different usecases. I don't think people would appreciate having to search for private courier contracts and private item exchange/auction separately as an example, which is something that is a pretty big part of the public contracts search.

There are more private contracts than public ones, but within each search 'realm' (particular alliance, person, corp) there are only a handful of outstanding contracts at any one time. In almost all cases all your contracts will fit on a single 100 entry page. Just using the new search for public contracts allowed us to take some important short-cuts and use resource quotas we could not have otherwise.

We will probably give the old interface a little make-over when it's transitioned to a 'private contracts' tab. We'll bring over what we can from the public contracts search.

Maybe we're wrong and maybe the new search is very useful for private contracts. Let us know! :Smile


Hi,

All looks good, but I really think that there should only be 1 'type' of contract search.

It should be a standard interface for contracts, not 2 different types. Thats just bad UI design.

We have enough different types of UI design in Eve over all the areas and windows, please don't increase the count :(

Whatever 'optimisations' you need to do depending on the 'type' should be irrelevant to the user and done in the background.

Rob.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.12.28 12:15:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Illwill Bill
But... 18 months?!Shocked
Yes, we deeply apologise that we are unable to keep that "promise"... Wink

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.12.28 12:22:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Hawk TT
10x for the clarification! Very Happy

Just out of curiosity, do you use Windows HPC Server to manage (in this particular context) the roles of the physical hosts? There was some presentation / DevBlog regarding the potential benefits of M$ HPC Server in this respect...
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Hawk TT
Great Dev Blog and great features!

The Dev Blog shows what are the real benefits from the corification of the EVE server software back-end architecture. I guess the "New Contracts" and the "NEO NEOCOM" are the first "fruits" of the corification effort, visible in the EVE client.

Keep up the good work CCP Twisted Evil
Not the benefit of corification, but the benefit of refactoring (one of which recent efforts was corification). In this case there are two such refactoring efforts that come into play:

(A) When we overhauled the mail system we introduced a new concept of specialised nodes in the cluster (originally Mail Nodes) that with further fleet fight lag fixes resulted in the Character Nodes. The concept evolved and by now there are EVE Gate Backend Nodes, Planetary Interaction Manager Nodes, Alliance, Corporation and War Service Nodes, Voice Backend Nodes, Market Nodes, Character Nodes, Fleet Finder Nodes, in addition to the Location Nodes that host solar systems. And soon there will be Contract Nodes. The basic principle is that these are isolated services that don't depend on your location and that don't need to communicate with one another.

(B) Team Gridlock, which works on fleet fight optimisations, had a need to be able to turn new code on and off on a controlled manner on clients as a part of a staged rollout and as a safety measure to be able to turn off optimisations if fallout occurred. The new "Experimental Features" is using that same mechanism to introduce new features in the same manner.

No, we don't use the Windows HPC Server to manage the roles, we do that in our own cluster framework (ZCluster is the low-level framework and Mr. Cluster is the top-level management) on top of SQL Server and Windows Server Core.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.12.28 12:53:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: Zendoren
Originally by: Jason Edwards
bpc vs bpo differentiation?
This
I'm assuming you mean in the search results? That should already be on Sisi.
Differentiation between BPO and BPC in other locations, such as your hangar, is on our backlog for the next release. The deployment of the 64-bit Inventory allows us to work on this feature.

"The preceding statements are forward-looking and do not constitute a promise of a delivery of said feature at a certain date."

De'Vadder
Minmatar
Dissonance Corp
BLACK-MARK
Posted - 2010.12.28 12:57:00 - [89]
 

"Uh, oh. It's only for public contracts

The new contracts search does not search through private contracts, only the public ones.
The reason for this is that there aren't that many contracts assigned to each alliance, corporation or character so all the features of the new search aren't as important for these private contracts. Since the searchable contracts cache does cost quite a bit of server resources and the number of private contracts overall is pretty great we have opted for using the old contracts search for these types of contracts.
If you would like to extend the new contracts search to cover the private contracts as well please let us know since we haven't seen the reason to do so."

That will make Red Frog Freight sad little pandas, i believe.

CCP Atlas

Posted - 2010.12.28 13:15:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Che Biko
One thing I'd like to see though, is to be able to search for (courier) contracts that are along your autopilot route, so that when I go from A to E via B-C-D I'll get the contracts that need to go from A-E or B-D, etc, and not the ones from/to F-Z. But I'm guessing this is to much server load.
So, uhm, did I guess rightQuestion


Yes, I don't see this happening for the current iteration at least.
Originally by: Che Biko
And will we be able to select multiple regions/constellations/systems in a single search (for courier contracts)?

It's possible that this can be added at some point.


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