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Veliria
Posted - 2010.12.27 10:57:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Veliria on 08/01/2011 21:11:19

The Runabout



Mining is generally boring as heck, in groups the social bit can make it a little more interesting and wormholes can up the tension a wee bit, but on a whole Mining kills braincells quicker than dumping one's head in battery acid.
Some pilots love that and they can continue to mine as they do all day, but for some of us all that SP put into Mining could be put to a better use than to just stare at Veldspar all day, in particular those who live in high-sec or low-sec.

Mining the really good stuff usually means going into 0.0 and joining an alliance or going into a WH and pray there isn't a POS/bad guy in the system. Usually any kind of potential aggression means no mining as Hulks and such don't have any sort of GTFO capability.
There's the Skiff, but with such a tiny cargohold and only a bonus to mining Mercoxit, it doesn't really fit the ninja role.
The Barges also get a little tedious, I myself kinda miss the hectics of managing my mining Rokh going at it with 8 MDCMs with a tiny cargohold.

Ofcourse being able to sneak in and out of 0.0 with 1k m3 of Arkonor is crap for the risk you may end up taking so if you're gonna go you need a big cargohold.

And as such, I present the ORE Mining Ship: Runabout.

Description
Originally designed as a deep space prospecting ship, the Runabout was mothballed after advances in Covert Ops frigates where made.
After the discovery of T3 ships and wormholes however, ORE redesigned the ship for a new role in the mining business, that of mining in hostile territory.
Fitted with the advanced computers needed to allow the use of a covert ops cloak, the Runabout can sneak its way into many hostile areas with some level of impunity.
Once there, specialized ORE computers can aid in locating Gravimetric sites and scanning asteriod belt compositions.
Using cargo technology borrowed from the Rorqual, the Runabout can carry large amounts of raw ore in a specialized cargohold.
This allows the Runeabout to make the most out of its unauthorized stay before sneaking back to friendly space.

Ship Bonuses
5% reduction to signature radius per level.
3% reduction to mining cycle time per level.

Role Bonuses
95-100% reduction to Covert Ops cloak CPU requirements.

Specialty
75% bonus to probe Gravimetric sensor strength.

Fitting
High: 8
Mid: 6
Low: 3

Turret slots: 7
Missile slots: 1

Dronebay: 75m3
Drone bandwidth: 50mbit

CPU: 950tf
PG: 420mw
Calibration: 400
Rig slots: 3

Shield: 2700 (0%, 20%, 40%, 50%)
Recharge: 1000 seconds
Armor: 1900 (50%, 35%, 35%, 10%)
Structure: 2100

Capacitor: 2500
Recharge: 600 seconds

Sig radius: 150m
Sensor strength: 32
Scan resolution: 180mm

Cargohold: 1200m3
Ore Cargohold: 70000m3

Mass: 11000000kg
Interia: 0.55
Speed: 210m/s

The main role of the Runabout is to be able to slip into Wormholes or 0.0 space and then head back with enough ore to make it worth the trouble. It's between a Cruiser and Battlecruiser in size and agility, although its sig radius gets reduced per level to make the ship harder to pin down via probes. The ore bay only allows raw ores to be put in, so no cloaky hauling other than that.

It does not use Strip Miners but regular Miner IIs or Modulated Deep Core Miner IIs.
Not as effective as a Hulk, but it is roughly equal to a Covetor when it comes to mining quantity.
You can mine in a belt with it, but it shines the most in grav sites where you can be hard to scan down yourself without an easy warp in for any potential hostiles.

Veliria
Posted - 2010.12.27 10:57:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Veliria on 28/12/2010 21:10:39

Notion #1
This is essentialy a cloaky bubble proof cargo ship.

Fix
Make cargo only able to carry ore, compressed ore, crystals and probes.
Or include a separate cargohold for ore and use a small regular cargohold for crystals and probes.

The bubble immunity has been removed.

Notion #2
Putting ore compression on a small hull would have to have some pretty serious drawbacks to not obsolete the rorq.

Fix
One option is to remove the compression ability and just have a huge cargobay for the ore.
It would have to pretty massive though as you don't want to be running the gauntlet constantly just to be able to mine for 15 minutes before your cargohold is full again.
Another option is to limit the quantity/speed of the compression, enough for what you can mine but nothing beyond that.

The ore compression ability has been replaced with a special cargohold for raw ore.

1600 RT
Posted - 2010.12.27 11:15:00 - [3]
 

with 7 turrets and those stats it would be more used for pvp than mining Laughing
i like it

Karn Velora
Posted - 2010.12.27 11:49:00 - [4]
 

I'm not sure this is exactly what we need, but I certainly understand what you are aiming for... And we really do need something like it.

In the old days, there was still some merit in tanking up a battleship for low sec mining. I remember my mining Apocs and Armageddons. Lower yield than a barge, but with a ****load more security and defensive capabilities. With T2 gear and such, any such idea comes up short now - which is a crying shame. It's simply not profitable enough in terms of raw yield. To add insult to injury, battleship mining implies jet can mining, due to crap cargo spaces. Jet canning means laggy objects in space, more vulnerability to ganks and theft, and the need to haul it in an indy, which means more than double travel times and bla bla... it's annoying!

There's desperate need for some kind of ninja miner, a solo miner, a wormhole miner. It would be highly treasured for those of us who like to mine alone and hang around in low sec as well. I think maybe to stop it from becomeing a pvp boat, it could be slightly short on cpu/grid, and have a role bonus: reduction to cpu/grid for mining lasers. Presto: 8 miners, yes. 8 autocannons, no.

I'm not so sure the cloaking is a necessity or even a good idea, but the combination of tank, cargo capacity and offense is very attractive. I really don't see a problem with something like this. It's not powerful enough to cause a problem in pvp.

CCP always claim jet can mining was unintentional - but without it, mining would be a pain in the arse. Mining with the cargo hold CCP gave you wasn't ever viable until you could shove tripple rigs into a covetor - and then the result was completely untanked. CCP clearly intended low sec mining to be done in ships with less than 3000 m3 cargo space, and without jet cans and rigs, which is ridiculous. As the new mining ships reveal though, they are trying to move away from can-mining. Good. Let's keep on that path.

Bigger and bigger barges have also made any non-stripping ship increasingly useless and unviable - and it's high time the old turrets had a buff and a ship worth fitting them to.

In the end I think the ninja miner should end up around here:

  • Enough cargo space to make it viable to jump 2 systems out, mine, and jump back home - without ending up completely untanked.

  • Enough defensive capabilities to temporarily tank low sec and wormhole belt rats, with the lasers shut down.

  • Enough missiles/drone bandwidth to actually fight the belt rats off.

  • Mining yield should be around that of a 2-turret T2 barge. It's a solo boat, and it can't be best at everything! Defenses and solo capability should come at a cost. Barges should remain the primary choice for an organised industrial operation!



The bastard child of a battlecruiser, a mining barge, and an industrial hauler. Yes please.

Karn Velora
Posted - 2010.12.27 11:54:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Karn Velora on 27/12/2010 11:58:37
You know... the Noctis has a sister... some kind of useless PI colony ship. May as well scrap it. Recycle that mistake into an 8-turret ninja mining monstrosity instead.

Edit: Hrm. I miss the old 8-turret mining monstrosities... I haven't looked at this for such a long time. I wonder what I could do with a battlecruiser or a cheap battleship. Seeing as how I'm currently doing low sec and w-space mining... I need something with more oomph than a t1 barge - and something far CHEAPER than a t2 barge. Doubt it'll be viable, but who knows? Worth a look.

Fulbert
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.27 12:00:00 - [6]
 

What you are describing is basically a bubble-proof cloaky cargo ship. A way to import crapload of stuff from 0.0 to empire with no risk. People will never accept something like that.

Karn Velora
Posted - 2010.12.27 12:04:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Karn Velora on 27/12/2010 12:10:05
Originally by: Fulbert
What you are describing is basically a bubble-proof cloaky cargo ship. A way to import crapload of stuff from 0.0 to empire with no risk. People will never accept something like that.


The bubble proofing and the cloak is over the top, I'll agree. Even blockade runners ain't bubble-proof. Other than that though, the general idea of an actual solo mining ship, designed for hostile environments, is sorely needed.

CCP's view has always been that industrial ships should have no offensive or defensive capabilities at all, more or less. I never understood the crazy argument for this. I see why they are too weak to stand up to pirates and warships in general, duh, but WHY can't they fight of belt rats on their own? It forces people to cooperate, when in fact they might not want to. If you can pvp alone, run missions alone... why is it so bad to mine alone?

Veliria
Posted - 2010.12.27 12:05:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Veliria on 27/12/2010 12:17:37
Edited by: Veliria on 27/12/2010 12:07:21
Originally by: Fulbert
What you are describing is basically a bubble-proof cloaky cargo ship. A way to import crapload of stuff from 0.0 to empire with no risk. People will never accept something like that.


T3s and Jump Freighters can generally do this already.
One fix is that the cargo can only hold ore, compressed ore, mining crystals and probes.
Or a separate cargohold for ore and a small cargohold for crystals and probes.
That way no regular cargo can be used.

I suppose the bubble proof could go, maybe replace it with a cargohold bonus.
Cov Ops cloak is kinda mandatory though or you're not running through anything.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2010.12.27 15:20:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Veliria

Notion #1
This is essentialy a cloaky bubble proof cargo ship.

Fix
Make cargo only able to carry ore, compressed ore, crystals and probes.
Or include a separate cargohold for ore and use a small regular cargohold for crystals and probes.


/This

I would also love to see a ship like this to ninja mine in Wormholes. ORE really need to put their efforts into building something like this!

shady trader
Posted - 2010.12.27 19:03:00 - [10]
 

unless this is a capital ship I can see a lot of this ships never leaving empire. Throw up a pos in an uninhabited system have a Orca in the POS boosting and use this for hauling/ compressing the ore ready for transport at the end of the day.

Would work wonders for alliance alt corps to gather trit for shipping to 0.0 for supercap building.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2010.12.27 21:23:00 - [11]
 


for compression on the rorqual, you need to fit an industrial core, which then immobilizes your ship and uses fuel.

And that's on a ship pretty much designed for the purpose that's too big for gates. Putting ore compression on a small hull would have to have some pretty serious drawbacks to not obsolete the rorq.

mchief117
Posted - 2010.12.28 04:15:00 - [12]
 

my only quam with this is th ore compression.

maybe make it have say a 45K ore only hold that can specialy store the ore , allowing it to hold that much on that size of a ship.

CynoHo 4life
Posted - 2010.12.28 04:37:00 - [13]
 

I think the OP should take the tools given by CCP and find a better way to mine. making a new ship that is immune to bubbles makes eve as a whole worse. The coolest thing about eve is making partnerships and alliances. Teaming up with a group of PvPers would benefit your mining exploits more than freely jumping through nulsec, mining and cloaking up the second anything enters local. Your not adding risk to it, you would have more risk mining in highsec. Suicide runs still happen.

Karn Velora
Posted - 2010.12.28 05:17:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Karn Velora on 28/12/2010 05:27:30

Have to admit though, the old days of battleship mining were pretty darn cool. You had defenses, you had offense, you could even run with a stab installed to the pirates' frustration... T2 barges largely killed off the viability of using anything but strip miners and barges. Personally, I want this back. Sacrificing some yield for having this extra layer of oomph was a god-send in lowsec. Today though, you sacrifice a heck of a lot more. It's probably more profitable to mine Veldspar in 1.0 with a Hulk than it would be to use a battleship to ninja-mine Arkonor in a wormhole with a jet can. It's a cryin' shame.

I'm all for team efforts. Orcas, Rorqs and barges are all fun and that, but not everyone should always be "forced" to work in a group. No other profession requires teamwork to that extent - and let's be honest... there's a lot of loners in the mining community, who WANT to do it alone.

Heck, just add a %5 yield / level to the Rokh and the Apocalypse, and I'll be good... Would be much better with a ship actually desiged for the job though. A ship with a cargo space, so you don't need to bother with jet can mining and still have a decent layer of defense. A ship designed to use mining lasers, not strippers.

ORE probably wouldn't be the ones to field such a ship though. I'm thinking a matari brainchild of Thukker Mix or something along those lines. Maybe I'll post up something along those lines...

Veliria
Posted - 2010.12.28 08:14:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Glyken Touchon
Putting ore compression on a small hull would have to have some pretty serious drawbacks to not obsolete the rorq.


Originally by: mchief117
my only quam with this is th ore compression.

maybe make it have say a 45K ore only hold that can specialy store the ore, allowing it to hold that much on that size of a ship.


One option is indeed to remove the compression ability and just have a huge cargobay for ore.
It would have to pretty massive though as you don't want to be running the gauntlet only to be able to mine for 15 mins before your cargohold is full.

Originally by: CynoHo 4life
I think the OP should take the tools given by CCP and find a better way to mine. making a new ship that is immune to bubbles makes eve as a whole worse. The coolest thing about eve is making partnerships and alliances. Teaming up with a group of PvPers would benefit your mining exploits more than freely jumping through nulsec, mining and cloaking up the second anything enters local. Your not adding risk to it, you would have more risk mining in highsec. Suicide runs still happen.


As mentioned bubble immunity could go, replaceable with some other bonus.
Teaming up in 0.0 means joining an alliance and living under their rules, their decs and generally staying in 0.0 as well, which is quite a commitment, especially for casual players.
It's hardly risk free as you can get jumped/probed (especially by another cloaky ship) at any time.

AtheistOfFail
AoF Lottery Services
Posted - 2010.12.28 09:32:00 - [16]
 

Actually, the ore compression can be fixed by dropping the ship's cap to instant 0 while compressing. It will not use fuel and it can't move for *20* minutes. This makes it completely different to the Rorqual and it stops it from mining while compressing.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.28 10:22:00 - [17]
 

u know a 100% cap reduction while compressing could be a way to keep the balance

Karn Velora
Posted - 2010.12.28 12:32:00 - [18]
 

Maybe it's just me but... a ship that ends up a sitting duck in space for 20 minutes doesn't much sound like a ninja miner. Sounds more like a huge freaking bullseye that pirates can use for targeting practice. Sounds like a way better idea to dump the compression part completely, and just shove a decent cargo hold in there.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.28 12:44:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Karn Velora
Maybe it's just me but... a ship that ends up a sitting duck in space for 20 minutes doesn't much sound like a ninja miner. Sounds more like a huge freaking bullseye that pirates can use for targeting practice. Sounds like a way better idea to dump the compression part completely, and just shove a decent cargo hold in there.


perhaps its sig radius could be reduced by 95% making it very hard to scan out as an offset

Karn Velora
Posted - 2010.12.28 13:43:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Karn Velora on 28/12/2010 13:52:16


It all sounds far too complicated to me. :)

I'd prefer a miner that's perhaps a bit less ninja, and a bit more samurai. Less blockade runner transport inspiration, and more deep space transport inspiration. Brute force ninja mining. Something along these lines, and don't quote me, cause I'm more or less pulling numbers out of my <beep>. :)


---


Thukker Mix 'Elephant' Industrial Cruiser

Approximate size: Large battlecruiser, small battleship. Agility, weight, speed, sig radius all follow suit.
Actual size classification: Cruiser - think battlecruisers, barges and industrials for rigs and equipment.
Cargo: around 5000 - fully rigged and low-slotted for cargo, that ends at 18,000.
Cpu / Grid: LOW grid, to prevent it becoming a heavily armed transport. High cpu, to accomodate mining lasers, possible mining upgrades and shield.
Armor / Shield: T1 resists, battlecruiser-ish health
Capacitor: Great size and recharge, as it's not intended to have much cap mods/rigs on the ship.
Drones: 150 m3 bay, 50 m3 bandwidth
Sensors: 30 km target range, crap resolution, terrible lock times, max targets 4.

Bonuses:
- Thukker Industrial Bonus: +10% mining yield per level
- Thukker Industrial Bonus: +5% drone hp, damage and mining yield per level
- Role Bonus: +1 warp strength (This is the only thing that makes it deviate from the norm of a T1 ship. Heck, we can skip it and add an extra lowslot instead...)

Slot Distribution:
- 8 high: 6x turret, 2x launcher
- 6 mid? Just enough to active-tank belt-rats, with lasers off.
- 3 low

What you end up with is a bastardised cross between an industrial, a barge and a battlecruiser. Slotted for cargo, it will not reach the yield of a covetor, but surpass a Rokh. Slotted for mining laser upgrades, it's useless for ninja work due to cargo limitations - and still can't compete with proper barges. Low cargo makes it unable to compete with industrials. With T1 shielding and armor, no cloak, limited cargo, and only +1 innate warp strength - it can't compete with transport ships either.

What you do get is a powerful solo miner, designed for the job - unlike a Rokh or an Apoc. The cargo space lets it grab a good 4-5 million isk worth of Arkonor before heading back to base. It'll be the only ship designed for standard mining lasers, that has enough cargo that jet canning isn't necessary. Double missile slots and plenty of drones, combined with a decent shield tank, will let it take care of rats down to null sec and w-space - but it's no match for a player pirate. The defense against player pirates comes from being clever, careful and having the innate +1 warp strength, which is pretty modest. All battleship miners had one stab at least anyway so I don't see a problem with it. :) This is just a battleship miner on crack, designed specifically for the job - with some added gate-busting defenses. I can't see that it would do a better job than any other ship at what they were designed to do, so balance isn't much of an issue. It doesn't obsolete any ships. To further guard against real pirates, one could always sacrifice cargo for extra warp stabs, but the ship would really start sucking ass.

The one thing that concerns me is that you can make it an 18,000 cargo indy - with 8 anti-frigate weapons mounted. However, with a lock time on a frigate of probably around a minute or two, it's less of a concern. Sure, you could add craploads of sensor boosters - but then you are untanked. Anyway, this will be an issue for ANY miner designed to use mining lasers, as opposed to strippers. ( The closest to this that can be done today, is to use a cargo-Hurricane, which ends up at only around 3500 cargo, but with far more firepower - and the ability to actually lock frigates before it dies. )

And yeah, shield tanking is a must. Imagine what people would do with it if it had low slots coming out it's butt... *shivers*

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2010.12.28 15:16:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Karn Velora
Thukker Mix 'Elephant' Industrial Cruiser



This would be a terribad 0.0 nin - eh - samurai miner.

Why? Bubbles.

I'd add an invulnerability to bubbles, making it almost ungrabbable. Unless you have a focussed (*HiC*)

That combined with a relatively low align speed would make for some fun bubblebursting moments... Will your Warp Drive catch on, or will they grab you eventually with enough points?

blah

Veliria
Posted - 2010.12.28 15:45:00 - [22]
 

Quote:
Thukker Mix 'Elephant' Industrial Cruiser


This thing would replace the Hulk in all aspects including yield.
The last thing we need is a ship with more yield than a Hulk driving the prices down even further.
I do like mining laser boats more than strips, but not in this fashion.

You can't really brute force your way into 0.0 or a WH with this.
Tanking or warp strength is pointless beyond belt rats as there will always be enough ships around to kill you.
Something almost as big as BS is too easy to probe down and lock.
18k m3 is far too small, you'd spent half your time running the gauntlet in a ship that has little chance of surviving instead of mining something good.
This thing isn't all that different from a Hulk other than that it doesn't use Strip Miners.

Raw mining potential is the Hulk, there is no need for a Hulk duplicatie using regular mining lasers.
The Rokh is the closest thing to a 'Hulk using regular mining lasers'. (it can match a Covetor in yield with 4x MLU)

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2010.12.28 15:49:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Veliria
Quote:
Thukker Mix 'Elephant' Industrial Cruiser


This thing would replace the Hulk in all aspects including yield.
The last thing we need is a ship with more yield than a Hulk driving the prices down even further.
I do like mining laser boats more than strips, but not in this fashion.


Agreed, the samurai ship would need to have less yield then a hulk, possibly 'and then some'
Quote:

You can't really brute force your way into 0.0 or a WH with this.
Tanking or warp strength is pointless beyond belt rats as there will always be enough ships around to kill you.
Something almost as big as BS is too easy to probe down and lock.
18k m3 is far too small, you'd spent half your time running the gauntlet in a ship that has little chance of surviving instead of mining something good.
This thing isn't all that different from a Hulk other than that it doesn't use Strip Miners.


I'd say add them both (with tuning adjustments obviously) Some people would prefer the smaller but more agile ninja, while others would prefer the bruteforce samurai. Considering there is the same difference between the 2 T2 hauler types, I wouldn't see why not.

Veliria
Posted - 2010.12.28 18:09:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Veliria on 28/12/2010 18:09:35
Originally by: Gemberslaafje
Originally by: Veliria
Quote:
Thukker Mix 'Elephant' Industrial Cruiser


This thing would replace the Hulk in all aspects including yield.
The last thing we need is a ship with more yield than a Hulk driving the prices down even further.
I do like mining laser boats more than strips, but not in this fashion.


Agreed, the samurai ship would need to have less yield then a hulk, possibly 'and then some'
Quote:

You can't really brute force your way into 0.0 or a WH with this.
Tanking or warp strength is pointless beyond belt rats as there will always be enough ships around to kill you.
Something almost as big as BS is too easy to probe down and lock.
18k m3 is far too small, you'd spent half your time running the gauntlet in a ship that has little chance of surviving instead of mining something good.
This thing isn't all that different from a Hulk other than that it doesn't use Strip Miners.


I'd say add them both (with tuning adjustments obviously) Some people would prefer the smaller but more agile ninja, while others would prefer the bruteforce samurai. Considering there is the same difference between the 2 T2 hauler types, I wouldn't see why not.


My main concern with this 'samurai' ship is survivability.
You don't 'gatebust' or 'tank' anything remotely PvP oriented in a beefy mining ship.
It's still 1vMany and you'll essentially be a solo BS which cant gatebust any day of the week.
Getting through a gatecamp either requires avoiding it, bringing a fleet or sneaking past it.
No amount of solo firepower can force you through a decently sized gatecamp.
+1 Warp strength is rather pointless since a single frig with a scram can hold you long enough for his buddies to arrive.

Hence why the Runabout is focused on avoiding combat and keeping a low profile.
Half of the Runabout is built around being very hard to catch and as such it should be good at it.
Staying and fighting (as the 'samurari' ship is indicating) doesn't work in this scenario.
Even if you stay alive against one or two ships, then what? You won't have anything to kill them, they can just wait for their buddies.
It's essentially a solo BS with mining lasers instead of guns, and solo BSes aren't doing so good and that is with guns fitted.

Karn Velora
Posted - 2010.12.28 19:31:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Karn Velora on 28/12/2010 20:17:57

Well, yeah, it's not intended to bypass warp bubbles and render them useless. Kind of feels like it's way too advanced electronics for a mining barge. Is there any ship at ALL that can bypass warp bubbles? It's intended to slip past solo pirates, very few pack +2 scramble strength or more due to the low range. It's NOT intended to stand and fight! And yeah, it'll be relatively quick to scan down. Mining vessels are big noisy affairs, and I kind of expect them to be relatively easy to find if you apply yourself. It's intended to mine in abandoned systems - not in plain sight of pirates. ;) It's supposed to add more security and utility than a barge or a battleship - not to be an untouchable blockade runner that doesn't register on scans. How do you think the alliances will react if CCP adds a ship into the game that renders their bubbles useless? What will the pirates say about "uncatchable miners"? ;)

Also, the +1 stab ability is there for a good reason: most people would have fitted a stab on the ship, like they would have on a battleship miner. However, if I added another low slot instead of the +1 stab... the cargo space starts growing again, hitting almost 23,000 m3 with the 4th expander. Bad idea.

The "small" cargo hold is a necessity, not a choice. It can't be bigger. If it's bigger - it becomes super-useful as a null-sec transport. There's no way in HELL a ship will be added into the game that has a cargo hold as big as a transport, slotted like a battlecruiser, and room for 8 weapons. In fact, getting even the 18,000 limit hold to win the approval of the community will be huge fight - and let's not even try to predict what CCP will think of it. There's a very good reason, I have opted for shield tanking here - it puts an absolute limit to the low slots and thus, the cargo size. The only option around this would be to fit that capital compression bay, and I'm not so sure CCP will go for it on a solo sub-cap mining vessel.

Also, unless I recently got dumber or more ignorant, there's no way in HELL it would outmine a Hulk. ;)

-Yield, assuming Mining 5, Astrogeology 5 and "Thukker Industrial" 5 - using MDCM IIs: 6 * 1.5 * 1.25 * 1.25 * (120+120)/3 m3/min = 1124 m3/min
-Compare with a t1 covetor, with Stripper IIs, Mining 5, Astrogeology 5 and Mining Barge 5: 3 * 1.15 * 1.25 * 1.25 * (360+360)/3 m3/min = 1294 m3/min
-A hulk's turret yield should after appling another 15% for the Exhumer bonus land on a raw yield of 1488 m3/min

Unless I forgot some old skill for standard mining turrets that doesn't apply to strippers... yeah. That should be about it, I think. 10% extra yield per level may look all big and flashy - but it's only a 6-turret boat. 6*1.5 lands you at 9. That's the equivalent of 1 more miner in turret yield compared to an 8-turret Rokh. Not very flashy, all things considered. Better, yes, but not Über. If you still think it's too much, okiday, drop it to 7,5% / level and the turret yield is down to 1031 with DCML IIs, less than 80% of what a plain old Covetor will do.

This, to me, still looks like a solid ship - a vast improvement over a battleship miner, that doesn't take over other ships' roles too badly.

The Runabout suggestion however is listed with 7000 cargo (making it the biggest of all non-caps in game, t1 and t2 alike) / a cap-only compression feature. It has a sig radius at full skill of 81 meters (smaller than a catalyst destroyer). It's got mounts and drone bandwidth matching an average battlecruiser, is immune to warp bubbles, and it has a covops cloak. Seriously, such a thing will never be added. It's not a realistic goal. This is beyond t1, and even beyond t2.

Veliria
Posted - 2010.12.28 21:07:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Veliria on 28/12/2010 21:20:12
Still two major problems with the Elephant, you only get max 4-5mil per trip assuming Arkonor, which is utter crap compared to the risk you'll be taking on top of any travel time and that is assuming you can haul it to a good station for refining.

Solo pirates in the sense it'll be 1v1 for the duration is going to be rare and with no cov ops cloak and a slow as heck align time, anything on the gate (and I mean anything) is going to end the whole operation right then and there.
Low-sec ores are not worth mining (thank Nocxium prices for that) so WH and 0.0 is all there is.
Purely for wormholes the Elephant has some merit (assuming it doesnt have a lot of mass or the WH will collapse too quickly) but for sneaking into 0.0 you atleast need a cloak or good align times.
Abandoned systems don't stay that way for long (galaxy map -> avg pilots in space) and you may spend quite some time finding one.

Bubble immunity is probably OP seeing all the responses so that can simply be removed but I honestly don't see how the Elephant is going to stay alive in 0.0, mine enough stuff to make it worth, make it back to dump the ore somewhere refinable and then repeat the whole issue again and have the capability to do this regularly.
Grav sites are another point as belts have warp ins. One pirate roaming the belts and you might have to wait at a safespot for an hour whereas a cloak or being able to find Grav sites provide alternatives.

Note: Updated the description, no bubble immunity/compression anymore and increased the base signature radius.


 

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