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blankseplocked To talk to a griefer or not to talk to a griefer?
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Posted - 2010.12.26 08:37:00 - [1]

I was wondering.. Is it necessarily a good idea to talk to a wardeccer than to ignore it? Even if you believe they'll just forget about a threat, is it worth talking and negotiating with them? Even though their policies are coocoo for coco puffs...

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.12.26 09:40:00 - [2]

Edited by: Akita T on 26/12/2010 09:41:28

This is such a case-by-case question that there is no good single answer.

Depends on the reason why they declared war on you in the first place (boredom, being paid by others, perceived slight, etc), their chatter-related desires (they want to hear complaining, they want to hear curses, they want to hear begging) and their patience.
For some, talking at all is a bad idea, for others, talking can save you almost all the trouble, but usually, it doesn't make much of a difference.

So, basically, do whatever you feel like.
PROBABLY a polite/neutral request for information will give you a slightly better idea what you're dealing with.
They might as well not want to talk to you at all.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.12.26 09:42:00 - [3]

It never hurts to try. Impress upon the attacker that you have intention of humouring him, and that your strategy will involve boring him to death by not giving him any targets.

General Advice
Mentors Administration
Posted - 2010.12.26 10:17:00 - [4]

By all means talk to a 'griefer', but if you do then go into it with the intent to discover information rather than negotiate out of it. Don't even bother with that; even showing a a desire to end hostilities will likely prolong them. Make it clear it either makes no difference to you or you actually enjoy the opportunity, and that the conversation is simply curiosity why they think you are worth bothering with spending isk on.

If they are an actual griefer the worst thing you can give them is boredom. If they have a legitimate reason to dec and are trying to get you to do something (disband, move, etc) then they will likely tell you, and it might be simpler to just do it (unless they're asking for money).

Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.12.26 11:26:00 - [5]

Just remember that the "griefer" is an actual person. He/she just has different goals/aims from yours. Talk to them and just see what they want.
Worst case scenario, they smacktalk you and the conversion goes nowhere (try your best not to smack back... unless of course it's in jest. Remember, humor can be very powerful).
Best case scenario, you give them something they want/desire at little material cost to you and it all goes away (see if they would be willing to have a "showdown" between your corp against theirs... win or lose you'll earn their respect (hell, they might even help you prepare by giving you proper PvP fits)).

Posted - 2010.12.26 15:32:00 - [6]

Edited by: gfldex on 26/12/2010 15:32:40
If the person you difame (no evidence presented so far) is indeed a griefer and therefore is very interrested in your (not so positive) emotions, you should for sure not talk to them. If the opposing party is any good they have a spy char in your corp. Using corp chat, private chat or corp and private evemail can not be recommanded too. Any form of voice communication would be even better to learn your and your corp's feelings. Avoid those too.

Given that you start a conflict in a _game_ with blunt insults all the given advice is moot to start with, ofc.

Hakkar'al Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.26 17:46:00 - [7]

Edited by: Hakkar''al Gallente on 26/12/2010 17:49:42
Never, ever negotiate with griefers to make them stop what they are doing.
What's to stop them from farming you of isk?
I've seen alliances go down because of griefer negotiations...

On the other hand, as people has pointed out - you can always talk to them to try to find out what makes them tick. Most gang keep it up for a week, not more - especially if you bore them to tears by avoiding all contact with them.

EDIT: clarification

Posted - 2010.12.26 20:23:00 - [8]

not to talk to a griefer

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2010.12.27 15:38:00 - [9]

If you do choose to talk to them, then you may find out that the wardec was started due to some action that you did. If this is the case then you may be able to resolve it.

Now i dont have too much experience with this, but I would advise the following....

1. DO NOT pay any ISK to them. (you will be decked angain for more)
2. DO NOT cry, whine, say you will quit, rage, say your friend in some-alliance will come and greaf them! (tears fuel these people)

If the dec continues

3. Be calm and don't give them targets.
4. DO NOT mine, mission, haul, fly solo during the dec.
5. Or simply buy some frigs, gang up, and go have fun trying to fight them. (You never know, you may enjoy yourselves)

Dian'h Might
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
Posted - 2010.12.27 22:02:00 - [10]

Firstly, just because they wardecced you doesn't make them griefers, there are plenty of "legitimate" reasons for someone to dec you. You should definitely convo them and find out their reasons.

Pretty much what everyone else said for the convo. Dont' smacktalk, don't get mad, be polite, and don't expect them to just drop the dec and sing kumbaya as a result of the convo.

As someone who has done a lot of highsec wardecs in the past, I can tell you that I was always impressed with targets who had a sense of humor, targets that didn't get ****ed, and had I ever come across it (I never did) targets that would band together and attempt to fight back as a semi-coherent unit.

Posted - 2010.12.28 18:45:00 - [11]

"Hey, why the wardec?"
"WE WANT ISKIES OR U DIEZ!!!" (srs, typical reply)
"Oh, that's nice. Good luck with that." *drops player corp(I run my own)
Then drop cans and rename them insulting names.

But that's just me.

Devil tiger
Posted - 2010.12.29 11:51:00 - [12]

Usually its not worth it to negotiate with the ones that have decked you if you're just a bunch of miners/industrialists.

If you how ever have several decent & pvp-hungry pilots... Scan out their posses, members etc. and take the initiative.
Most "griefer corps" will drop their war soon after and move on to easier prey.

Ava Starfire
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2010.12.29 12:31:00 - [13]

Neat thread, actually.

I was in an empire-based PVE corp for a while when I was new to eve, and as a hisec, PVE corp we were on the receiving end of a couple of wardecs.

The first corp started out as "give us moneys!!" but quickly became friends, and we had further wars for fun with them, a learning experience for us, a good deal of fun for them.

The second corp was one of the 1337 hisec pvpers, complete with RR alts. We ruptureswarmed his vaga, killed him, and oddly, his desire to pursue the war rapidly vanished.

The third war we startedVery Happy

So yeah, it never hurts to try and talk to them. A lot of EVE players, even wardeccers, are really good people. The best advice? Undock and TRY to fight. At worst, they turn out to be jerks, in which case you use different methods. It is pretty likely, however, that it can be a lot of fun for all parties involved. T1 fit cruisers cost almost nothing after insurance, after all.

Reeno Coleman
Posted - 2010.12.29 15:13:00 - [14]

As soon as you show interest in ending the conflict, they know they hurt you and will try to make the most out of your misery.
You could send a formal notification, that their effort is futile and you will neither pay nor fly carelessly around while in war, then deny any further conversation attempts.

Alternatively, you can always pay someone to hunt them for a change. (:

Auxilia Enterprises
Posted - 2010.12.29 17:55:00 - [15]

Excellent thread. Lots of great advice in here, the most important imho is that the answer is situational in nature.

My standing rule is not to talk to any griefers/war deccers/killers. If a convo is initiated by them, I will consider it based on surrounding circumstances. Also, I will personally never pay a ransom/war dec fee, and I will never respond to smack, or perform any smack talk.

Bottom line, as already pointed out by others, it's likely best to move on and react in a manner that you think will cause them to find other fish in the pond. I would say no communication is usually most prudent, but occasionally it might be wise to start some convo. You'll have to take it on a case by case basis.

Good luck.

Dani WH
Posted - 2010.12.29 18:13:00 - [16]

just FYI, blocking someone can get him mad... in example:

- Griefer: Hello!! Im wardecing you, pay 200m isk and you are free
- Noob miner: [blocks griefer]
- Griefer: Hello? [message can't be sent. this user has blocked you]
- Griefer: WTF!!! Let's annoy him till he unsubscribes!!!!111one!!11 Twisted EvilMad

The right choice is to talk to him nicely. Don't be arrogant. Don't laugh. Don't cry. Don't ask why why why... Don't blame its unfair...

Just learn from them the game mechanics, accept/decline the ransom and PLAY Razz the grief won't last all your life and after a reasonable amount of time, you will remember this as one of the more exciting moments on your EVE-life

You won't remember every single, repetitive mission, or every time you get your Hulk to activate the yellow lasers... but the griefing, you will.

Dian'h Might
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
Posted - 2010.12.29 20:48:00 - [17]

Originally by: Bakkachan
Then drop cans and rename them insulting names.
Antagonizing them is the last thing you want to do. Whenever a corp we decced started acting in the way you describe, that was the signal for us to start metagaming. Not necessarily because we felt particularly insulted by a can with derogatory comments on it, but because doing things like that shows that the wardec has gotten under your skin.

Originally by: Reeno Coleman
You could send a formal notification, that their effort is futile and you will neither pay nor fly carelessly around while in war, then deny any further conversation attempts.
You could, however you and your members better be prepared to stick it out for a long time, especially if you've intentionally insulted or antagonized them.
I remember one dec that started out with a mail similar to that from the CEO. About a week in, I noticed a member who recently quit had lost a pod to his former CEO. I convoed him and learned that his former CEO had podded him for loosing a ship to us, and had then sent out a corp mail demanding that no one undock unless he was online under threat of him personally podding them. Not many undocked after that, so we just left the war running and did other stuff for about 6 weeks until the corp disintegrated. (we also decced the next 3 corps the ceo tried to start up after that).

Originally by: Reeno Coleman
Alternatively, you can always pay someone to hunt them for a change. (:
Speaking from personal experience again, this rarely works out well. In every single case where our targets hired mercs they ended up spending 2x what we asked for in ransom, and the mercs could do very little (if anything at all) to hinder our operation.

Originally by: Ava Starfire
The first corp started out as "give us moneys!!" but quickly became friends, and we had further wars for fun with them, a learning experience for us, a good deal of fun for them.
I can speak to things like this happening as well. Generally if a corp was polite and paid the ransom, we'd keep in contact for the next few months and do whatever we could to help them in the event someone else came along and decced them.


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