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blankseplocked Eve's server's secure? No
 
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Matthias Howe
Posted - 2010.12.26 05:06:00 - [1]
 

I believe that my son's account was hacked. He had only played on a trial account and he let the account run it's course and did not renew. I sent him 2 billion isk to set him up, but he never used it and I never bothered to follow up on it. He never spoke to anyone in-game, never posted on the forums. He logged in after 2 months and started playing again and there were two new players on his account, each 1 year, 1 month old, his pilot was gone and so was the money. Each of the new mystery players on his account had 50k sp or so. It is also worthy to note that my son has not used any of the gawker sites, etc., and only started an eve account 2 months ago so please don't give me this crap that he must have given his info away - he's not that dumb. Where the hell did these two new characters come from that are over a year old each? How did they transfer characters to his account?


Zangorus
Posted - 2010.12.26 05:13:00 - [2]
 

I think you should petition instead since i dont think any forum admins can get into details on this.

notafourmalt
Posted - 2010.12.26 05:22:00 - [3]
 

Hope gets sorted and dude why 2bill....let him find his own way and guide him otherwise hes gona end up flying around lowsec in his golum and get his faifit destoryed....yes it happens many times a week YARRRR!!

Matthias Howe
Posted - 2010.12.26 05:27:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Zangorus
I think you should petition instead since i dont think any forum admins can get into details on this.


I think that people should know that their info isn't safe. I'm not a troll - I'm just honked off. I'm not even waiting for my son's petition to be replied to. Both our accounts are canceled because I honestly think someone is asleep at the wheel at CCP. Also, CCP has repeatedly stated they are not responsible for hacked accounts. That's horse manure. Something is very wrong here. Why move two characters over a year old into the account and delete his? Or move his to another account? This is some kind of operation. I'm out of the game for good. No, you can't have my stuff. I don't even want to be associated with these kind of people. I certainly don't want my son involved in this kind of junk, either. I personally think the trial account server isn't secure. I'll wager that these guys are going into the trial account database SOMEHOW and using discontinued players to hack accounts. I think where ever the inactive trial accounts are stored at CCP isn't secure. Something is wrong here. Very, very wrong.

KurnKuku
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.26 05:29:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: KurnKuku on 26/12/2010 05:38:45

Alternative explanations:

(Long shot) Your son has an account from a long time ago that he reactivated instead of the one from 2 months ago. I bet it has happened before.

(Very likely) Your son's computer is infected with malware. Don't assume that because your antivirus does not find anything that your computer is clean. I would be extremely concerned about what else has been keylogged on this computer.

(Also Possible) Your son has signed up to an eveonline fake fan site with the same username and password as his eve account. Or he has been phished.

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.12.26 05:32:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Chesty McJubblies on 26/12/2010 05:33:34
10/10

Edit, the 1 was a typo

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.12.26 05:33:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 26/12/2010 05:40:58

Originally by: Matthias Howe
It is also worthy to note that my son has not used any of the gawker sites, etc., and only started an eve account 2 months ago so please don't give me this crap that he must have given his info away - he's not that dumb.

There's a difference between "dumb" and "careless", or better said "not totally paranoid like some of us".
Also, the gawker site was merely one example of a recently compromised site.

Just how certain are you that your son has ONLY used this particular username//password combo for EVE and nothing else ?
If you're sure he hasn't, just how weak is his password to standard dictionary attacks or other not-quite-brute-force approaches ?
If you think he might have used similar username/pass combos somewhere else too, how certain are you that he logged into ANY of those from "clean" computers without any form of keyloggers or similar software ? Are you sure the EMAIL account used for the registration of his trial account was not compromised in any way at any time ? Are you ABSOLUTELY sure he hasn't simply given out the username/pass to a less-than-trustworthy acquaintance ? As if he would tell you if he screwed up badly... he's a kid afterall and you're his parent, it's only natural he tries to cover up stuff he thinks you'll be angry about. Or maybe he transmitted the username/pass combo to a trusted friend over an unsecured connection that was being tapped OR the other party had an infested machine ? Or even maybe he let the username/pass combo accidentally somewhere to be picked up by somebody else ?
Plenty of possibilities why it could happen due to less than full paranoia mode self-security. It's not "dumb", but it's not "smart" either.

It's also worthy to note that there have been exactly ZERO people using unique usernames with strong, unique passwords which never use machines they don't have full control over that have complained so far about their account security being ever compromised.
See a pattern here ?

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2010.12.26 05:40:00 - [8]
 

there is no trial account server or anything separating the trial accounts from the other normal accounts on the database other then probably one single boolean value

what they did to the account is indeed bizarre but as you can see there aren't hundreds of threads all over these forums about this so it's not a server wide/ serious issue. I don't care how much faith you have in yourself and your son, someone stepped on a keylogger or something along the way.

There is nothing wrong on CCP side cause as far as I know when they see someone login from a new, IP address they just think that your at a friend's house playing EVE for all they know.

The way they log a lot of things, I'd would think they would pick up on anyone getting info from the server that they aren't supposed to have...

Conclusion: Someone ****ed up on your end, not on theirs

Gypsy Overlord
Amarr
Super French Mining Merchant Surrender Fleet
Posted - 2010.12.26 06:22:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Gypsy Overlord on 26/12/2010 09:14:17
Edited by: Gypsy Overlord on 26/12/2010 06:23:02
Originally by: Matthias Howe
I believe that my son's account was hacked. He had only played on a trial account and he let the account run it's course and did not renew. I sent him 2 billion isk to set him up, but he never used it and I never bothered to follow up on it. He never spoke to anyone in-game, never posted on the forums. He logged in after 2 months and started playing again and there were two new players on his account, each 1 year, 1 month old, his pilot was gone and so was the money. Each of the new mystery players on his account had 50k sp or so. It is also worthy to note that my son has not used any of the gawker sites, etc., and only started an eve account 2 months ago so please don't give me this crap that he must have given his info away - he's not that dumb. Where the hell did these two new characters come from that are over a year old each? How did they transfer characters to his account?




Let me get this strait. Your son got a trial account about 2.5-3 months ago and the account was active for 14-21 days. Recently the account was re-subed, however he has two one year old characters on the account.

The only conclusion I can draw is the wrong account was re-subed. Have you checked all your email accounts for welcome to eve messages to make sure it is the proper account?
I know I've lost track of the various trial accounts I've created over the years thinking ""I'm going to get myself a new alt." It simply does not make sense to spend 40 usd (or equivalent local currency) to place two one year old characters on an account and an additional 20 usd to move a "main" off.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2010.12.26 07:13:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Selinate on 26/12/2010 07:13:21
< been playing MMO's for 9 years now, and I can say that I've never once been hacked. Dumb luck? Probably not (just saying that there are alternative explanations):P

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.12.26 07:24:00 - [11]
 

I would have at least waited for some response from the petition process before coming to the forums and making some noise about this incident.

A simple starting point - should you wish to take some action of your own pending the petition response - would be to search the "Character Bazaar" for posts by or naming either of the two characters now on your son's account.

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2010.12.26 08:11:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 26/12/2010 08:12:55
Originally by: Matthias Howe
I believe that my son's account was hacked. He had only played on a trial account and he let the account run it's course and did not renew. I sent him 2 billion isk to set him up, but he never used it and I never bothered to follow up on it. He never spoke to anyone in-game, never posted on the forums. He logged in after 2 months and started playing again and there were two new players on his account, each 1 year, 1 month old, his pilot was gone and so was the money. Each of the new mystery players on his account had 50k sp or so. It is also worthy to note that my son has not used any of the gawker sites, etc., and only started an eve account 2 months ago so please don't give me this crap that he must have given his info away - he's not that dumb. Where the hell did these two new characters come from that are over a year old each? How did they transfer characters to his account?




Why not petition it and ask CCP about it? But if I where you, I would be a little more polite. And if I where to guess, the problem will most likely be on your side.


T'Laar Bok
Posted - 2010.12.26 08:27:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Matthias Howe
sent him 2 billion isk


WTF is he going to do with that? Buy a ship he can fly in 5 years time?

ifollowed through
Posted - 2010.12.26 08:48:00 - [14]
 

smells like troll to me

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.12.26 08:52:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Matthias Howe
I believe


We're not really interested in beliefs here, just facts. Quite frankly, as has been pointed out by others, Your proposed scenario is not the only, or even the most likely explanation of the facts presented. I'd wait for the petition if I were you, before you simultaneously make an ass of yourself and **** CCP off with accusations you can't support.

Gravemind GER
Caldari
Fnord Works
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.12.26 09:18:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Gravemind GER on 26/12/2010 09:19:03
Originally by: Matthias Howe
I believe that my son's account was hacked. He had only played on a trial account and he let the account run it's course and did not renew. I sent him 2 billion isk to set him up, but he never used it and I never bothered to follow up on it. He never spoke to anyone in-game, never posted on the forums. He logged in after 2 months and started playing again and there were two new players on his account, each 1 year, 1 month old, his pilot was gone and so was the money. Each of the new mystery players on his account had 50k sp or so. It is also worthy to note that my son has not used any of the gawker sites, etc., and only started an eve account 2 months ago so please don't give me this crap that he must have given his info away - he's not that dumb. Where the hell did these two new characters come from that are over a year old each? How did they transfer characters to his account?



-snip-


Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2010.12.26 09:18:00 - [17]
 

A nobody alt, failtroll 0/10.

Nareg Maxence
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.26 09:30:00 - [18]
 

Error 40, sounds like to me..

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2010.12.26 09:43:00 - [19]
 

Did he have an account before this current one with two characters and 50K skillpoints and he just reactivated that one?


Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.12.26 09:47:00 - [20]
 

Out of the two options:

1) Major server problem
and
2) User error

2) is more likely, no matter how much you like to believe that that's not possible.

Chris Bailey
Posted - 2010.12.26 09:52:00 - [21]
 

Bad **** website?

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.26 09:58:00 - [22]
 

Just for a minute imagine the eve login database has a security flaw you can exploit. So this means you can login on every single account, ISDs, Devs, GMs, enemy alliance leaders/supercap pilots, RMT'ers, etc. And what do you do? You hack a trial account, serious?

Bling Bling
Posted - 2010.12.26 10:11:00 - [23]
 

It seems very improbable that someone would -- much less could -- hack a 2 month account and add 13 month old 50k SP characters to it. Look up the character you sent 2b to, and if it still exists, your son has the wrong account.

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2010.12.26 11:19:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Kalle Demos on 26/12/2010 11:19:13
2 years ago I gave my WOW account to my friend son too, every eight months after the account was magically hacked, eventually I barred my friend son from the account as blizzard were starting to **** me off after the third hack.

Turns out my friend son was really ******ed and clicked anything, didnt have any security (yes having Norton is the same as no security), yet insisted it was blizzards fault

Truth is it is very difficult to 'hack' an account directly, or rather it would require alot of effort, while a keylogger can do the job for you and get more info like my friends sons paypal info :facepalm:

Melkath Bandrom
Posted - 2010.12.26 12:49:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Melkath Bandrom on 26/12/2010 12:52:18
If his account was truly hacked, there would be no way for him to log in. One of the first things an account hacker will do is change the account email, then change the password.

If indeed he was able to log into the account and play the characters there, then he could change the email and the password, keep the characters as they exist or delete them. You have your original trial account activation email or information to prove to CCP that the account is originally yours so you should feel free to do with it as you wish.

As to the 2bill, your SOL on that one... unless you are trying to get 2b Isk out of CCP by false claims of account hacking??

I think there is a lot of information here that the OP didn't include or he is a troll (nothing personal)

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.12.26 13:00:00 - [26]
 

Fail troll is fail trolling.

Not even a good attempt really.

Xylengra
Posted - 2010.12.26 14:04:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Xylengra on 26/12/2010 14:05:36
I admit I didn't read all the posts in this thread, but, seriously, there are only so many variations on this recurring theme.

The question I did not see asked is what possible logic could be in place to hack an account and never change the password, which must be the case since the OP says his son logged back in and found the character changes.

No, some other explanation is the culprit here, one the OP is either not willing to face or one the OP is not willing to tell the whole truth about.

Sorry dude, it just hasn't happened the way you portray it here.

Also, if your accounts are canceled, then GTFO. Can't stand forum *****s that admit they don't play the game anymore. Do I go on your Hello Kitty game and **** and moan about things happening there? No, just No.

edit: As I post, I see at least one other is on to the aspect of not changing the password. GMTA

Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
Posted - 2010.12.26 15:03:00 - [28]
 

It would help if you posted the names of your son's characters as well as these new "homeless" ones. What happened to your son's character ingame?

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2010.12.26 15:35:00 - [29]
 

If someone can directly hack the EVE Online servers, why steal money from your son, when they can simply spawn ISK out of thin air, a 'la T20 style?

Also, it is very common for servers to be configured such that you CAN'T (reasonably) compromise someone else's account even if the hacker gains access to the database containing log in key/value pairs. This is because passwords are very rarely actually stored by the server - instead the server stores a hash, which the password is transformed into after going through a hash function. The end result is that even if the hacker finds this database, they will only find a list of hash values, which is useless to the hacker unless they can reverse engineer the hash function. This will be VERY difficult if they use a cryptographically secure hash function. EVEN THEN, the hash values might be "salted" which means that the hacker would ALSO have to find the salt values before he can attempt to reverse engineer the hash function.

It is MUCH more likely that one of two things happens:

1) Your son got hit by a keylogger written by some no-name hacker who will never find their way onto the virus scanning company's radar. This means that the ONLY thing that can "catch" these keyloggers are heuristic scanners, which are hardly accurate or reliable (though this technology IS improving)

2) Your son uses the same password/username combo on another website which got hacked. All of the security in the world won't protect you if you hand out your username/password to someone else who has no security.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.26 15:43:00 - [30]
 

Quote:
If his account was truly hacked, there would be no way for him to log in. One of the first things an account hacker will do is change the account email, then change the password.


/thread


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