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blankseplocked Market - 0.1% minimum price adjustment
 
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Larla Rosethorn
Minmatar
Renegade Pleasure Androids
Posted - 2010.12.22 22:57:00 - [1]
 

Currently the way market works is people enter orders and modify them every 5 minutes progressively by 0.01isk from the nearest bid. This creates a situation where people can't really trade because it's super tedious and markets are not efficient because the bid/ask spread doesn't close quick enough.

I'm proposing to change the bid/ask system to only allow bid/ask modifications of at least 0.1% price increment/decrement. This way the bid/ask spread will narrow quicker and everyone will benefit. Traders will not have to play the lame tedious game of adjusting the price by 0.01 isk every 5 minutes and buyers and sellers will get better deals.

A similar system is in effect on New York stock exchange where there is a minimum allowed price adjustment in place on order modifications and new orders.

Fulbert
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.23 00:16:00 - [2]
 

So 0.01isk wars would be replaced by [0,1% x sell order value] wars. This doesn't change anything. People will always lowcuts your order, people will always edit their orders every 5 minutes.

Thyme Wasted
Posted - 2010.12.23 01:28:00 - [3]
 

Actually, it probably would make a pretty big difference, as people would approach the other side of the bid/ask price faster. Margins would shrink much quicker, it would become a more important decision as to when you change price.

eleven fiftynine
Corporation 5244108
Posted - 2010.12.23 07:17:00 - [4]
 

make it a 24 hour change timer, and remove the order getting automatically reset to full time every time you only change the price. That is commitment.


Zero Uptick
Posted - 2010.12.23 09:31:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Larla Rosethorn
...This creates a situation where people can't really trade...


Stopped reading here. I think most of us are trading just fine.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.12.23 10:14:00 - [6]
 

No

Jekyl Eraser
Posted - 2010.12.23 10:40:00 - [7]
 

Maybe there could be a system that if you wanna place the lowest order you must undercut old oldest on the station by 1% or more(lower than lowest sell order or higher than highest buy order). Otherwise there would be no restrictions.

0.01 isk war works because trade tax is so low. If it was 10% like what corp taxes, bounty&mission reward taxes are there wasn't so much if atall buysell bore trading.

Kara Sharalien
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2010.12.23 12:31:00 - [8]
 

The current system is stupid. It doesn't only affect traders either. Its very hard for manufacturers to make money, because once you make a decent run of something you have to baby-sit your orders to stop silly undercuts.

I don't really care how it is solved, but .01isk undercutting is silly.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.23 12:41:00 - [9]
 

Personally I would recommend to drastically raise the fee on changing buy or sell orders. Any change of an already submitted order requiring between 1-3% of the orders total.

Another option could be to raise the cost slightly with each change to buy and sell orders a character makes on a day. The cost could be reset after 24H to a basic level, but a lot of modifying buy and sell orders one a single day would drastically increase the cost. This would also help to discourage some market bots.

SargeantNekkid DDS
Posted - 2010.12.23 13:45:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Larla Rosethorn

A similar system is in effect on New York stock exchange where there is a minimum allowed price adjustment in place on order modifications and new orders.


EVE has a minimum allowed price adjustment. The minimum amount of ISK you can change the price by is 0.01 isk, as opposed to 0.001 isk or even lower than that. I mean think about it, this is virtual currency - the game isn't minting coins, where currencies are limited to 1/100th of a unit simply because the cost of minting a penny is greater than the value of a penny. EVE doesn't have these kind of considerations - everything is virtual - so in theory, people should be able to trade on hundredths or thousands or even billionths of an isk.

Furthermore, if you actually did any trading, you'd know that when modifying orders traders will often modify by well more than 0.01 isk on their own to move things along.

What you're attempting to describe will lower profits for traders by artificially increasing variance in order modification. Meaning, EVE will be forcing people to sell for less money and buy for more money than they could get for the items in question. This will cause a decrease in trading volumes, ridding the market of needed liquidity.

If you don't like it (i.e. the manufacturing char above me), don't place sell orders. Just fulfill buy orders and boom, instant isk. If you don't like that you're not getting as much money as a sell order, then wait to sell, and if everyone else waits to sell the traders will just keep on increasing their buy orders bit by bit and you will earn more money.

TL:DR - QQ more. Can I haz your stuff before you go back to WoW?

Larla Rosethorn
Minmatar
Renegade Pleasure Androids
Posted - 2010.12.23 17:45:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Larla Rosethorn on 23/12/2010 17:54:30
Originally by: Zero Uptick
Originally by: Larla Rosethorn
...This creates a situation where people can't really trade...


Stopped reading here. I think most of us are trading just fine.


I can outbid any of your sell or buy orders on my 1 account by splitting my volume in 2 and adjusting the price on half-volume (or any fraction of volume) in any time interval. This means the 5 minute limitation doesn't work, and any other time limitation wouldn't work either. That combined with multiple traders means you are rarely ever be on top of any ask offer especially in a high volume situation. The minimum increment will alleviate the situation to the point where the spread will close fast to "efficient" bid/ask and you will be able to just sell or buy the stuff that you need instead of creating a sell order. For traders it will become more interesting because they'll have to do something else other than boring adjustment by 0.01isk of their 100 orders on a ridiculous 20% price spread.

Larla Rosethorn
Minmatar
Renegade Pleasure Androids
Posted - 2010.12.23 17:54:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Larla Rosethorn on 23/12/2010 18:07:49
Edited by: Larla Rosethorn on 23/12/2010 18:05:11
Edited by: Larla Rosethorn on 23/12/2010 18:02:56
Originally by: SargeantNekkid DDS
Originally by: Larla Rosethorn

A similar system is in effect on New York stock exchange where there is a minimum allowed price adjustment in place on order modifications and new orders.


EVE has a minimum allowed price adjustment. The minimum amount of ISK you can change the price by is 0.01 isk, as opposed to 0.001 isk or even lower than that. I mean think about it, this is virtual currency - the game isn't minting coins, where currencies are limited to 1/100th of a unit simply because the cost of minting a penny is greater than the value of a penny. EVE doesn't have these kind of considerations - everything is virtual - so in theory, people should be able to trade on hundredths or thousands or even billionths of an isk. You could also say that even with the existing system I could enter by bid or ask offer near the middle of the existing bid/ask spread to enter the market as an "efficient participant" however one important part of efficient markets is the price discovery process, meaning the market itself discovers the true price for the asset in question by closing the bid/ask gap to the point where supply and demand drive the price movement.

Furthermore, if you actually did any trading, you'd know that when modifying orders traders will often modify by well more than 0.01 isk on their own to move things along.

What you're attempting to describe will lower profits for traders by artificially increasing variance in order modification. Meaning, EVE will be forcing people to sell for less money and buy for more money than they could get for the items in question. This will cause a decrease in trading volumes, ridding the market of needed liquidity.

If you don't like it (i.e. the manufacturing char above me), don't place sell orders. Just fulfill buy orders and boom, instant isk. If you don't like that you're not getting as much money as a sell order, then wait to sell, and if everyone else waits to sell the traders will just keep on increasing their buy orders bit by bit and you will earn more money.

TL:DR - QQ more. Can I haz your stuff before you go back to WoW?



Actually this is not true. More people would be trading and create more liquidity because trading wouldn't be the stupefying adjustment of price by 0.01isk it is now. With bid/ask spreads thinner i could actually leave my order for a while on the market and it would eventually sell. Sure traders would make less money but there would be more liquidity because people would be able to just sell their stuff and more reasonable prices. Traders who make money on 0.01isk increments are not the ones we need to worry about hurting, they are the exploiters who hamper the game for others. Markets exist as a tool to make the economy more efficient, not as a profit tool for traders. Traders simply facilitate it and take a small cut. If they take a large cut their profits should be immediately and permanently eliminated via market efficiency.

Larla Rosethorn
Minmatar
Renegade Pleasure Androids
Posted - 2010.12.23 17:56:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
Personally I would recommend to drastically raise the fee on changing buy or sell orders. Any change of an already submitted order requiring between 1-3% of the orders total.

Another option could be to raise the cost slightly with each change to buy and sell orders a character makes on a day. The cost could be reset after 24H to a basic level, but a lot of modifying buy and sell orders one a single day would drastically increase the cost. This would also help to discourage some market bots.


The idea is in the right direction but this would slow down the market and create negative incentive on modifying orders and closing the bid/ask spread which is undesirable.


 

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