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blankseplocked Bond: 30 days. 2 Bil at 5%. Secured [Filled] (Completed and Paid Out)
 
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Kei Darker
Posted - 2010.12.21 06:10:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Kei Darker on 19/01/2011 14:39:37

Final update and Bond has been paid out!
Week Three Update!
Week Two Update!
Week One Update! Post 37.

Now Secured and Filled. Bond to start December 23rd, to be paid out at 5% to RAW23 on or before January 23rd.

Market Discussions;

I have been for a while considering my first bond. Now is as good a time as ever to try one.

Bond terms:

2,000,000,000 (2B) ISK with twenty 100,000,000 (100M) slots

-5% interest

-30 day Maturity, starting day bond is filled and finishing 30 days later.

-To be secured with 39,000 units of robotics.

-Weekly report to include interesting tidbits that won't hurt my success, such as least profitable item traded that week.

-You may reserve a spot on the boards here by posting, or in game by Evemail. You may send the isk to this character once the bond has filled, or before if you want to. If bond fails to fill for whatever reason before Christmas, I will attempt again for smaller amount.

Method:

Mostly station trading in non-volatile market items, possibly moving some product if opportunity arises.

Risks:

I could fail to update my market orders often enough or make a major misjudgment about the market. I could have a real life situation prevent me from playing eve.

As with all bonds, and market discussions history, the OP could run away with the money. Bond now to be secured, so OP and 3rd party would both need to run with the moneys.

Comments to MD:

I intend to be updating my market orders. I also do not intend to get in any accidents or be away from my computer or internet access. I also do not intend to run away with your money.

I look forward to my first bond. Who wants onboard?
-Kei

Investors:
Filled in it's entirety by RAW23

P.S.
Spreadsheets.
(If you can't take a joke and/or think spreadsheets are actually really important, probably avoid clicking that)

Xordel
Pilipino Corp
Posted - 2010.12.21 17:14:00 - [2]
 

You could have made this more convincing if your added a real spreadsheet.. Atleast with the skeleton in it. Not with a stupid guy with a spreadsheet shirt.

Serene Python
Posted - 2010.12.21 18:02:00 - [3]
 

Reasons I wouldn't even consider investing isk in you:
-This is your first post, ever, and you're asking for a 2 billion loan unsecured...
-You link something labeled as spreadsheets and it's not even a real spreadsheet

Come back when you can propose something seriously

Corcyrus Endymion
Caldari
Elder Tribes
Posted - 2010.12.21 19:40:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Serene Python
Reasons I wouldn't even consider investing isk in you:
-This is your first post, ever, and you're asking for a 2 billion loan unsecured...
-You link something labeled as spreadsheets and it's not even a real spreadsheet

Come back when you can propose something seriously



Even though I must admit that this is obviously a pretty low-brow scam, I must ask: Does adding spreadsheets to an offering make it any more or less valid?!

Kei Darker
Posted - 2010.12.22 01:18:00 - [5]
 

Note to self: no humor allowed in MD.
I had thought that a fun community might like that spreadsheet joke...

As for being my first post ever - incorrect.

As for being a low-brow scam, I must say I'm not surprised of being accused of such, since no one ever trusts anyone. Moderately disappointing. Unfortunately there aren't ways of proving otherwise without someone trusting me. More disappointing. However, I have no plans of running off with any investors money. I'd much rather just continue with more bonds to make money the good old fashion way; trading other peoples money and keeping most of the margins before paying them back.

I suppose I could make the bond with collateral, but then why wouldn't I just sell that collateral. I don't own anything that is hard to move on the market. I suppose I could ask for a smaller amount, but I'll give this one until Christmas to get even a tad bit of real interest first. If it completely fails by then, I'll try again with smaller bond.

If anyone would like to have some faith in me... hit me up.

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.12.22 01:43:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 22/12/2010 01:44:09
Originally by: Kei Darker
Note to self: no humor allowed in MD.
I had thought that a fun community might like that spreadsheet joke...

As for being my first post ever - incorrect.

As for being a low-brow scam, I must say I'm not surprised of being accused of such, since no one ever trusts anyone. Moderately disappointing. Unfortunately there aren't ways of proving otherwise without someone trusting me. More disappointing. However, I have no plans of running off with any investors money. I'd much rather just continue with more bonds to make money the good old fashion way; trading other peoples money and keeping most of the margins before paying them back.

I suppose I could make the bond with collateral, but then why wouldn't I just sell that collateral. I don't own anything that is hard to move on the market. I suppose I could ask for a smaller amount, but I'll give this one until Christmas to get even a tad bit of real interest first. If it completely fails by then, I'll try again with smaller bond.

If anyone would like to have some faith in me... hit me up.


What makes your bond different to all the other (99% failed) bonds that get posted here? Nothing. Nothing at all.

You need to make your bond more interesting to people. To be honest your argument about collateral is flawed - you say "why would I not just sell it?" Well if you really want to run this bond you might want to think of the collateral as an investment - you either get your bond filled with collateral, or you don't get your bond filled at all. That is the scenario you are more than likely going to face right now.

Re-starting small, when people now know the original amount you were aiming for, in my mind would just be a red flag, it screams of rep grind. This thread right here was your first impression and you only get one. Offer collateral or face the pot luck challenge of whether anyone will blindly risk isk with you or not.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.12.22 03:23:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kei Darker

As for being my first post ever - incorrect.



1 post in August and 24 more this month, with 2 of those in this thread, is no posting history.

http://eve-search.com/search/author/Kei%20Darker


Kei Darker
Posted - 2010.12.22 03:31:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Caldariftw123
Offer collateral or face the pot luck challenge of whether anyone will blindly risk isk with you or not.


Very well. I am looking to secure this bond with 39,000 units of robotics. Would that be satisfactory? That should more than cover the 2,200,000 ISK. Now seeking a reputable 3rd party to secure this bond. Suggestions?

Jay Wareth
Posted - 2010.12.22 03:45:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Kei Darker

(If you can't take a joke and/or think spreadsheets are actually really important...


Confused

You're going to station trade and what, Keep track of it all in you head? Good luck getting anyone to give you their money with that business plan. Rolling Eyes

Kei Darker
Posted - 2010.12.22 03:50:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jay Wareth
Originally by: Kei Darker

(If you can't take a joke and/or think spreadsheets are actually really important...


Confused

You're going to station trade and what, Keep track of it all in you head? Good luck getting anyone to give you their money with that business plan. Rolling Eyes


Hmmm, perhaps bad wording on my part. Of course spread sheets are important. I suppose what I meant is that having spreadsheets in the bond offering descriptions is not important. Why would I sample my sheets to all of you... Of course I actually do keep track with them though.

Jay Wareth
Posted - 2010.12.22 04:13:00 - [11]
 

Assuming you aren't just trolling I think you really need to go read at least a few dozen previous bond threads. Look at why the ones that got filled did, and why the ones that didn't get filled didn't. Then come back with a really business plan, an audit, and your collateral, and hope everyone in MD has forgotten about this thread.

Kei Darker
Posted - 2010.12.22 04:19:00 - [12]
 

I have been reading bond threads for quite some time. MD is set as one of my home pages, and has been for months. I watch, but hardly interact, mostly because MD doesn't go easy on anyone for anything, and more importantly, they don't forget anything.

So we'll get this figured out right here in this thread before anything else. I've come up with collateral, now just need someone reputable to secure it. I have sent a couple eve-mails to 3rd parties. To make things easier and once this has been sorted, I may make another thread at that time.

AtheistOfFail
AoF Lottery Services
Posted - 2010.12.22 04:26:00 - [13]
 

I like this guy. If i had the ISK, i would definitely invest as long as fully 110% collaterized.

Trist Ian
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.22 04:28:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Trist Ian on 22/12/2010 04:33:27
Once you find a 3rd party to secure ill be willing to fully invest.. But only willing to post up 1.75bil for your 39k robotics collateral.

Kei Darker
Posted - 2010.12.22 05:05:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Trist Ian
Edited by: Trist Ian on 22/12/2010 04:33:27
Once you find a 3rd party to secure ill be willing to fully invest.. But only willing to post up 1.75bil for your 39k robotics collateral.


Thanks for the support. I'm looking to give more than one person the opportunity to invest in me, and I would like to hit that 2 B mark for this bond. We'll see how things start looking once I have found a 3rd party.

Atheist - Thanks for the support as well. You're one to have fun I've noticed. A surprisingly rare quality in this game. I believe I still have one unit of prisoners from when you were paper clip trading in Jita. Cheers.

AtheistOfFail
AoF Lottery Services
Posted - 2010.12.22 05:06:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: AtheistOfFail on 22/12/2010 05:08:27
Yea, i'm often serious when needed but the other times i like to have a lot of fun.

PS: Every so often, i stay in Jita to buy some stuff to lotto off. It often spirals into a paper clip trade. It's easy to start off and most people will trade you to get rid of some junk they don't need anymore. At the end, i usually tell the people in jita to open trade for a free "whatever the last item was" and give it away to the first person.

Xordel
Pilipino Corp
Posted - 2010.12.22 08:10:00 - [17]
 

Well first of all i dont think you should be joking around since your asking for 2b worth of investments with no securities. I would also be willing to invest up to 1b as long as you have a 3rd party to secure you. A trustworthy 3rd party at it not sum mumbo jumbo that you can make in a day. I have seen that happen.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.12.22 11:35:00 - [18]
 

If you're still looking for a 3rd party, I'll offer to hold the collateral for no fee. Provided it is located in highsec in case of default.


Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.12.22 11:55:00 - [19]
 

Robotics as collateral is not a good choice.

30 days (plus some to place gather money etc) will put you beyond the next PI patch which brings in risks of price tanking due to the expected improvement in automating extraction.

In that scenario, with those pieces you are going to easily fall below 100% collateralization.

You need either to

- provide liquid and price stable collateral (IE BPOs)

- to provide self-hedging collateral

- to purchase an insurance or a futures contract

- to over-collateralize more than what you proposed up to now.


If you want I can both hold collateral (Eve-search for past larger deals history), can sell collateral insurance, futures or insure you against collateral value loss to below current value.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2010.12.22 12:30:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Kei Darker
I am looking to secure this bond with 39,000 units of robotics. Would that be satisfactory?


You paying interest whilst keeping Robotics as collateral kinda means you're expecting an increase of Robotics value of let's say 8% within the next 30 days?

There's a chance of Robotics dropping in value, so to ask with your words: Why wouldn't you just sell that collateral?

RAW23
Posted - 2010.12.22 13:34:00 - [21]
 

Withdrawing my mailed offer but I'll take the whole thing at 5% if you purchase the collateral insurance from VV (very interested to see how this will work!).

Kei Darker
Posted - 2010.12.22 15:25:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Lederstrumpf
Originally by: Kei Darker
I am looking to secure this bond with 39,000 units of robotics. Would that be satisfactory?


You paying interest whilst keeping Robotics as collateral kinda means you're expecting an increase of Robotics value of let's say 8% within the next 30 days?

There's a chance of Robotics dropping in value, so to ask with your words: Why wouldn't you just sell that collateral?



Aha, so you've noticed it too! In my situation where all of my assets are moveable, the most profitable thing to do in this situation would be to play eve solo style in the market. However, I would much rather interact with others and such, so I thought I'd start a bond. To be honest, I considered securing the bond with liquid ISK.

Moving on past the silly way this system works and back to the good stuff... I have hit up VV with an eve-mail so hopefully soon I will have this all down with Raw 23 as the sole investor at 5% for 2B. More news soon when I have an update on the securing.

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2010.12.22 16:57:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Kei Darker
To be honest, I considered securing the bond with liquid ISK.


Quoted the most important part.

This is only suggested (in my experience) by people who are planning on scamming (not necessarily on the bond they offer to collateralize with isk).

Corcyrus Endymion
Caldari
Elder Tribes
Posted - 2010.12.22 17:23:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 22/12/2010 17:24:46
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane
Originally by: Kei Darker
To be honest, I considered securing the bond with liquid ISK.


Quoted the most important part.

This is only suggested (in my experience) by people who are planning on scamming (not necessarily on the bond they offer to collateralize with isk).


Even hinting to use isk as collateral, does your cause more harm than good. There is no valid and non-scamming reason to do so.

Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2010.12.22 17:35:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Kei Darker
Aha, so you've noticed it too! In my situation where all of my assets are moveable, the most profitable thing to do in this situation would be to play eve solo style in the market.


Yes, it would. If you use robotics as a collateral, and the price tanks in the patch, you will lose a fortune?

Originally by: Kei Darker
However, I would much rather interact with others and such, so I thought I'd start a bond. To be honest, I considered securing the bond with liquid ISK.


You don't need to borrow money to interact with people, there are other ways.

No audit offered. And you're selling on the "please trust me" pitch. MO of a scammer. Rolling Eyes

Kei Darker
Posted - 2010.12.22 18:15:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Kei Darker on 22/12/2010 18:16:39
Christ, MD is so full of haters. Why make offering a bond so unappealing??

There will be no audit. There will be full collateral. I'm working with Vaerah and RAW to determine appropriate means of securing. It doesn't make a difference to me what the form of collateral is, whether it's actual ISK (which will never change in ISK value), robotics (which could swing either high or low, but I don't think will swing low), or something else like 30 Ravens or a bunch of Hulks that probably aren't moving much in price.

I'd prefer something I think will go up in value while I don't have access to it, and I think robotics are a fine choice, but Hulks wouldn't be bad either probably. I'll get it all figured with Vaerah and RAW and then everyone else can continue their hatefest and it won't matter. I'm not going anywhere.

Expect to see a repeat hatefest in a little over a month when I offer the next bond. It will be for the same amount, different collateral.

Updates to come soon on status of securing.

Edit: Reduced textwall

Jay Wareth
Posted - 2010.12.22 18:25:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Kei Darker

Christ, MD is so full of haters. Why make offering a bond so unappealing??


Because you are asking us to give you our ISK, while doing everything you can to imply you will never give it back.

Kei Darker
Posted - 2010.12.22 19:25:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Jay Wareth
Originally by: Kei Darker

Christ, MD is so full of haters. Why make offering a bond so unappealing??


Because you are asking us to give you our ISK, while doing everything you can to imply you will never give it back.


Isn't is kind of silly that MDs expectations for investments are like this: "You give someone else something worth $110 dollars and I will give you $100. A month from now I'll let you give me back $110 and that other person can give you your $110 item back..." What a brilliant business model that has been established as the norm. I'm willing to play these games with you MD. However, I have not once implied that I would not give the ISK back to any investor/s, but it remains everyone's assumption because others have implied it.

There's no way to campaign against the hate. So bring it on. I'll play your games, provide the collateral, etc.

Hoping to have more details on the collateral insurance offered by Vaerah soon.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.12.22 19:37:00 - [29]
 

I am going to reply directly here since I prefer transparency wherever I can.
I will use simple terms, most of them (ie catastrophic loss, loss ratio etc.) are matched with RL equivalents and may be looked up.


Collateral Reclamation Terms

In case the Investee will disappear, default, forfeit, scam or any other event leading to an investment catastrophic loss, the collateral will be liquidated and in any case the Investor(s) will be refunded his starting capital of 2 (two) Billions ISK.
The Investee will have the stated 30 (thirty) days to run the investment plus 1 (one) grace day to fully reimburse the Investor(s) principal and pay full interests.
In case this won't happen, the investment will be declared unsolvant but recoverable, with a collateral adsorbed penalty of 1% (one percent) of the principal per day of late payment of the full due. In the specific case, 20M of collateral will be liquidated per day and reimbursed to the Investor(s).
The unsolvant but recoverable status will last for 7 (seven) days.
After 7 days the penalty system will be undone, the investment will be declared in default and collateral liquidated and given to the Investor(s) within 2 (two) days.
The Third Party Collateral Holder will keep the difference between the default day's collateral value minus the Investor(s) principal minus the adsorbed penalties.


Collateral Assets evaluation

Since

- collateral consists of highly volatile and speculative items and

- the Investee chose not to hedge

- the Investee chose not to purchase a derivative asset

- the Investor will accept no loss on the principal

- Collateral items value is being marked to market at 2010-12-22 18:24:00 for a fair value of 58803 per unit.

- Collateral items price range in the last month has been from Nov 27 @ 46444.44 to Dec 18 @ 65999.96 = 19555.52 (33.26% of fair value)

- investment maturity date is past the next game patch, featuring more P.I. automation and therefore a foreseeable drop in collateral fair value to pre-last month's accumulation value

- the Collateral Holder will commit liquidating collateral in the shortest possible amount of time, thus suffering a sales tax of 1%


The best post-speculation "bubble burst" collateral devaluation scenario puts items at a value of about 42k with a gross loss of 655,317,000 ISK.


Insurance for this investment

Considering the factors above and considering this is a first launch, Vahrokh Financial Technologies [VAHFT] will insure the Investor to be refunded 2B for a non refundable fee of 72M, to be paid upfront by the Investee.


Collateral holding fee

Vahrokh Financial Technologies [VAHFT] will waive any collateral holding fee for this investment.


Alternate collateral

In case the Investee had chosen using a liquid collateral with no risk of depreciation the grand total fees would have amounted to 28M.

Jay Wareth
Posted - 2010.12.22 19:50:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Kei Darker
However, I have not once implied that I would not give the ISK back to any investor/s...

ex·plic·it
1. fully revealed or expressed without vagueness, implication, or ambiguity : leaving no question as to meaning or intent <explicit instructions>
im·plic·it
1. capable of being understood from something else though unexpressed : implied <an implicit assumption>

You have never explicitly said you won't give back the ISK. Every single post in this thread implies that you won't.

Not everyone puts up 110% collateral for every bond. Many people successfully sell uncollateralized bonds here, but I would be shocked if you are ever among them.


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