open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [Proposal] Supercarrier Nerf
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 : last (13)

Author Topic

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.16 09:18:00 - [241]
 

Some ideas I have seen that I think would be good without over nerfing the supper carriers is:

- Remove the remote armor/shield/energy bonuses
- Have the drone bay only allow fighters and fighter bombers
- Change the +3 to drone amount to +1
- Have a +200% bonus to drone control units (so its bonus is +3 to drones deployed

That way they are far less effective to sub-capitals and if they want to use neuts, smart bombs, cloaks and ecm burst, they sacrifice damage.

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.16 09:33:00 - [242]
 

Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 16/01/2011 09:35:19
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Some ideas I have seen that I think would be good without over nerfing the supper carriers is:

- Remove the remote armor/shield/energy bonuses
- Have the drone bay only allow fighters and fighter bombers
- Change the +3 to drone amount to +1
- Have a +200% bonus to drone control units (so its bonus is +3 to drones deployed

That way they are far less effective to sub-capitals and if they want to use neuts, smart bombs, cloaks and ecm burst, they sacrifice damage.


This actually isn't a bad plan. They would still retain their role completely while their utility would be stripped. But their DPS would eclipse a titan. That's the only small flaw I see. How would we make titans semi relevant without making them overpowered?

This would allow a Revenant(Sansha Mothership) for example to do over 20 thousand DPS alone. Might need to tone FB damage down a bit if you did this to stop MS from becoming the only thing required in a cap fight.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.16 09:58:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 16/01/2011 09:35:19
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Some ideas I have seen that I think would be good without over nerfing the supper carriers is:

- Remove the remote armor/shield/energy bonuses
- Have the drone bay only allow fighters and fighter bombers
- Change the +3 to drone amount to +1
- Have a +200% bonus to drone control units (so its bonus is +3 to drones deployed

That way they are far less effective to sub-capitals and if they want to use neuts, smart bombs, cloaks and ecm burst, they sacrifice damage.


This actually isn't a bad plan. They would still retain their role completely while their utility would be stripped. But their DPS would eclipse a titan. That's the only small flaw I see. How would we make titans semi relevant without making them overpowered?

This would allow a Revenant(Sansha Mothership) for example to do over 20 thousand DPS alone. Might need to tone FB damage down a bit if you did this to stop MS from becoming the only thing required in a cap fight.


They would also need to cut Dreadnought siege cycle time in half to make them an option again.

As far as titans go, I don't like how they can one shot anything with their DD every five minutes when it is non-capital. I will go on a limb and say double or even triple the damage of their DD and double the cycle time of it. Yes this cuts down on the amount of capitals it can lay waste to by half, but that also includes sub-capitals. This would give dread and carriers more of a chance to last longer but will still be one shouted by a titan. This change also would make titans kill other super capitals faster, that is if it is triple the damage.

It's a tough question but thought I would kick that idea out there. What do you think?

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.16 10:06:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Marlona Sky on 16/01/2011 10:13:47
Also another nerf to super caps is to change their base capacitor recharge time to zero. Or something that forces them to have someone pump cap to them to get it full. No more 30+ super carriers lolhotdropping someone and then warping of to cloak up till they have cap to jump out.

Or better yet, when a non-covert ops cloaking device is fitted or turned on, you can not recharge your capacitor. vOv

Or am I going off the deep end now?

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.16 10:53:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources

We know a supercarrier nerf is incoming. That's been confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt. We just don't know what it contains yet.

The question is do you want it to be something like this or ham fisted like a 50% EHP reduction?
Could you cite this nerf confirmation? A link perhaps?

“Ham fisted”. I love that.



Consider this information cited. You're welcome back to thread anytime you're ready to move past the :tinfoil: nonsense.

I'm Down
Posted - 2011.01.16 20:55:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky

As far as titans go, I don't like how they can one shot anything with their DD every five minutes when it is non-capital. I will go on a limb and say double or even triple the damage of their DD and double the cycle time of it. Yes this cuts down on the amount of capitals it can lay waste to by half, but that also includes sub-capitals. This would give dread and carriers more of a chance to last longer but will still be one shouted by a titan. This change also would make titans kill other super capitals faster, that is if it is triple the damage.

It's a tough question but thought I would kick that idea out there. What do you think?


I'm kinda shocked you don't see the obvious flaw with this plan. It just means titans replace SC as the I win in every situation instead of just certain situation atm.

Titan DD atm is ridiculously overpowered. Irregardless of ROF, there is no balance to a 1 shot kill weapon. When you start making the 1 shot kill weapon literally volley through anything just to fix one other OP ship, then it's even worse.

Basically your plan means that 20 titans can insta volley 3 SC rather than 1 instantly in a fight. It also means that titan proliferation will just explode. So instead of alliances fielding 60 MS, what do you do when an alliance fields 60 titans? It's already coming to that point. It's already looking ugly. ROF is not going to help that especially with a massive dmg boost.

I've always said titan DD should be a 2ndary effect that does massive effects to things like capacitor, heat, and ewar with very minimal area dmg. To date, this idea still holds up so well compared to anything else I've ever seen in terms of balance. there's literally no way to mass spam and abuse it while it still is a natural counter to MS. Titans should not be 1 shot DD killers of any sort.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.17 00:39:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources

We know a supercarrier nerf is incoming. That's been confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt. We just don't know what it contains yet.

The question is do you want it to be something like this or ham fisted like a 50% EHP reduction?
Could you cite this nerf confirmation? A link perhaps?

“Ham fisted”. I love that.



Consider this information cited. You're welcome back to thread anytime you're ready to move past the :tinfoil: nonsense.
I don’t require your invitation or welcome to post in a thread. I haven’t been posting here because it isn’t necessary to post against something that seems to be DOA as is. So, much as I’d like to continue to poke holes in your statements, I’ve resisted as an exercise in avoiding wasting time. Besides, it’s way too easy and I find things that are too easy to be boring.

Moreover, you failed to cite your confirmation of a “beyond a shadow of a doubt” upcoming nerf. What it amuses you to call “tinfoil nonsense” was designed to show just how overblown your claims can be and it achieved that goal. You had and have no conclusive information. There was no confirmation of your assertion before and even now none exists. Super Carrier nerfs remain a question. In all probability the best you might have had was mention from a member of the CSM regarding what they intended to ask CCP about.

Scat’s link didn’t work, at least for me (linking a PDF may be a problem), though his quote from the minutes was accurate. Selective, but accurate. In the same spirit I offer the following quote taken from the section of the minutes titled Post Dominion 0.0 in which discussion of the Super Carriers was carried out in more detail than Scat’s quote.

Quote:
“However, at the same time, simply nerfing supercarriers will not solve the problem. Supercapitals present a unique problem – once a pod-pilot is installed in one, because the ship cannot be docked in a station, it is difficult to change ships. Thus a supercapital pilot is much more committed to his or her role than the pilot of other ships, and nerfing the ships so that they do not have significant utility imposes a great cost on those pilots.

Furthermore, simply nerfing them may just result in supercapital blobs growing even larger in compensation, and in their deployment only in situations where the risk of loss is very low. A consequence of this is that the victims of supercapital attacks will feel very put-upon.”



Both the quotes from Scat and myself come from the recently released minutes of the December CCP/CSM summit. Specifically the last third of the three parts those minutes have been released in. I invite readers to read the quotes in their full context to reach their own conclusions. Far better than relying upon out of context quotes which only appear to support the highly inaccurate and strongly biased opinions of the OP and his minion(s).

-Windjammer

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.17 01:52:00 - [248]
 

I am sorry that the dev's stating it's a something of great concern to them doesnt translate into the same thing it does for people who have followed the CSm and dev conversations for half a decade. As for needing permission, it sure looks like you did :)

Nice wall of text to shout down a straw man though.

Sviatoslav KillJoy
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.01.17 06:34:00 - [249]
 

Not supporting this.

Leave the supercarriers and titans as they are at the moment or take the supercarriers out of the game completely and change titan DD back to AOF weapon.

Mrs Winter
Posted - 2011.01.17 07:49:00 - [250]
 

As a super cap pilot, I have read this thread and come to the conclusion that...

Slots should stay the same
EHP should stay the same (self-destruct is the real problem IMO)
EWAR immunity should remain.

I very much like the idea of the bonus to drone controls (+ 3 drones instead of +1) and changing the super carrier skill to +1 drone per level instead of + 3.
Make peeps choose between DPS or survivability.
Choose to fill your highs with DCU's or choose protection, ie, ecm burst, neuts & smarties.



Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.17 09:12:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
I am sorry that the dev's stating it's a something of great concern to them doesnt translate into the same thing it does for people who have followed the CSm and dev conversations for half a decade. As for needing permission, it sure looks like you did :)

Nice wall of text to shout down a straw man though.
*sigh*You’re admitting to being a straw man now? Actually admitting it. So this whole thread was just a troll. Geez. I knew you were full of it, I just didn’t think you’d admit it. Still………pretty good troll. Well done.

Regards,
Windjammer

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.17 09:35:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
I am sorry that the dev's stating it's a something of great concern to them doesnt translate into the same thing it does for people who have followed the CSm and dev conversations for half a decade. As for needing permission, it sure looks like you did :)

Nice wall of text to shout down a straw man though.
*sigh*You’re admitting to being a straw man now? Actually admitting it. So this whole thread was just a troll. Geez. I knew you were full of it, I just didn’t think you’d admit it. Still………pretty good troll. Well done.

Regards,
Windjammer


Nope, just admitting that your entire posting history in this thread has been arguing a straw man. Not the content, not the suggestions involved, just one thing you twisted to mean what you wanted for 3 pages ^_^ But hey keep on. Loving the bumps.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.17 10:23:00 - [253]
 

And my idea that you can't recharge cap while your cloaked?

Also by doubling the cycle time of the DD means normal capitals and sub capitals will survive twice as long as they do now. The increased damage does not change if a sub-super capital will die faster, they already die from one hit. What it does mean is super caps will die faster. Less super caps is a win for everyone. But we are starting to get away from the topic of you thread.

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.17 11:59:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
And my idea that you can't recharge cap while your cloaked?

Also by doubling the cycle time of the DD means normal capitals and sub capitals will survive twice as long as they do now. The increased damage does not change if a sub-super capital will die faster, they already die from one hit. What it does mean is super caps will die faster. Less super caps is a win for everyone. But we are starting to get away from the topic of you thread.

I like the idea of proto and improved cloaks gaining a -100% cap regen bonus. Would go a long way to nerfing the behaviour you just stated and other unintended things like afk cloaking. Granted it would have a far lesser effect on subcapitals. It would be crippling to supercaps. A good thing imho.

As for the damage increase it would give entities with titans the abily to alpha a supercap with 7 or 8 titans. Numerous alliances can field 20-40 of them. This would end in people simply not flying supercarriers and instead flying only titans. Not because supercarriers are worthless but because it would be all about whoever could get the most DD's off as fast as possible and nearly nothing else.

Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2011.01.17 14:41:00 - [255]
 

Won`t that eventually happen anyway with current titans ED? Although SCs are easy to get in and are cheaper, ultimately best way to kill people is to alpha them and titans are ultimate alpha vehicles currently. So as numbers get big enough only titans work well and thus any alliance with sense will only use titans for 0.0 wars. They can kill everything instantly, including tackle if there are enough titans on grid.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:13:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Marlona Sky
And my idea that you can't recharge cap while your cloaked?

Also by doubling the cycle time of the DD means normal capitals and sub capitals will survive twice as long as they do now. The increased damage does not change if a sub-super capital will die faster, they already die from one hit. What it does mean is super caps will die faster. Less super caps is a win for everyone. But we are starting to get away from the topic of you thread.

I like the idea of proto and improved cloaks gaining a -100% cap regen bonus. Would go a long way to nerfing the behaviour you just stated and other unintended things like afk cloaking. Granted it would have a far lesser effect on subcapitals. It would be crippling to supercaps. A good thing imho.

As for the damage increase it would give entities with titans the abily to alpha a supercap with 7 or 8 titans. Numerous alliances can field 20-40 of them. This would end in people simply not flying supercarriers and instead flying only titans. Not because supercarriers are worthless but because it would be all about whoever could get the most DD's off as fast as possible and nearly nothing else.


I see your point. So if the cycle timer was doubled and the damage was doubled, would that be an improvement a bit?

Originally by: Juliette DuBois
Won`t that eventually happen anyway with current titans ED? Although SCs are easy to get in and are cheaper, ultimately best way to kill people is to alpha them and titans are ultimate alpha vehicles currently. So as numbers get big enough only titans work well and thus any alliance with sense will only use titans for 0.0 wars. They can kill everything instantly, including tackle if there are enough titans on grid.


In my opinion, titans should not even be able to lock sub-capitals at all. Support should take care of tacklers and key ships like logistics and command ships. Reading from battle reports it seems titans DD more sub caps than actual capitals.

Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:21:00 - [257]
 

Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 17/01/2011 16:24:59
Yes, DDs are used to kill logistics ships and carriers first to break fleets support. After that they shoot expensive stuff like T3 and tackle. There is no defense besides warping off and giving up the field to enemy.

I'm Down
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:26:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: Juliette DuBois
Yes, DDs are used to kill logistics ships and carriers first to break fleets support. After that they shoot expensive stuff like T3. There is no defense besides warping off and giving up the field to enemy.


There's no change in rof/damage the DD currently does that will fix it. Any time you have a 1 shot kill weapon in any game, it's broke. It's broke no matter how you try to affect it with RoF and counters b/c the simple answer will always be, just bring more.

The Titan DD is the only thing broke about titans atm. SC are broke for a variety of reasons.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:16:00 - [259]
 

Gah, maybe doomsdays need to be changed where when they shoot, all they do is burn out all the modules of the ship they shot. Very Happy

Yaay
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:23:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: Yaay on 17/01/2011 18:23:58
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Gah, maybe doomsdays need to be changed where when they shoot, all they do is burn out all the modules of the ship they shot. Very Happy


hi, you sound like another convert, welcome:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1052103

Check out the date on that post yo.

Quote:
Titans

My main dilemma here was in which direction titan class ships should go. Even with the initial nerfing of doomsday devices, they are still way too powerful, and with increasing numbers of titans around, they are seriously threatening to destroy the phenomena of fleet fights. Anyway as mentioned, I had 2 directions, nerfing Doomsday or removing it. When I say removing doomsday, it would kill the role of the titan as it is now (if we exclude jumpportaling) so they would need another role, and the only viable one would be to introduce them as capital killer ships as they already have bonuses on their weapons. When it comes to nerfing doomsdays I will be honest and say I didnt have any idea what to do beside decreasing the damage inflicted, until Yaay posted a great proposal, especially the aspect of Doomsdays doing heat damage to modules:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1014819

Originally by: Yaay the revameped DD idea:
Posted - 2009.03.05 22:00:0

ROF 20 min:

20% chance to cause 40 heat damage (lvl 5)
10k Maxed (lvl 5) racial damage
15,000 Energy Neutralized (lvl 5 skill)
Warp Stasis, 20 second delay to affected ships warp abilities (including titan)



I would keep the current ROF, and would decrease the amount of energy neutralized, but anyway the idea is excellent. Hats off. This would basically solve the problems with doomsdays atm. They can’t singlehandedly win a battle with proposed changes and even with multiple doomsdays fired a hostile fleet will be crippled, but alive and you WILL need your support fleet to finish it (or not) :D

2nd thing which is bothering me from day one is damn range of Jump Portal Generator. For the love of God increase it to 5000m at least.

Duncan Dixon
Posted - 2011.01.17 23:55:00 - [261]
 

Edited by: Duncan Dixon on 17/01/2011 23:55:37
Originally by: Marlona Sky
In my opinion, titans should not even be able to lock sub-capitals at all. Support should take care of tacklers and key ships like logistics and command ships. Reading from battle reports it seems titans DD more sub caps than actual capitals.


I just moved to 0.0, am nowhere close to flying a capital in any form, and have never been on the recieving end of a SC blob.

Having read a lot of interesting discussion in this and other threads, a lot of trolling as well, the more I think about it I think Marlona is along the right track, and that through some mechanic (which I don't propose to dictate to CCP) all super capitals should be rendered unable to effect sub-capitals in any form. Not with damage, EWAR, or logisitics. Sub-caps should be able to do their thing to super capitals all day long with 0 fear from the super capital itself. Super-capitals are now balanced solely around there effect on capitals, structures, and other super capitals. Support fleets would be mandatory, nothing changes to carrier and dread capabilities against sub-caps, and SC PvE would die. This would make people mad. I think it would also put the game in a state where cap balance could be achieved by CCP (eventually).

Maaxeru
Posted - 2011.01.18 03:09:00 - [262]
 

Titans now are useless unless you have 10+ of them with significant SC / Cap / Conventional support. Yes: I know they aren't supposed to be solo-ships, but unless you are a large power-block, the 50+ billion Isk is just a fancy jump-bridge. You don't currently dare bring just one to a fleet, regardless of support fleet size. And large supercap fleets battling it out seems to be a non-issue that only the largest of Alliances / Coalitions has to worry about. Smaller to more mid-sized Alliances will rarely use their ship currently.

Titans were meant to be feared shps. While they can one-shot anything sub supercapital every 10 minutes (and becoming pretty vulnerable during that time) . . . so what? I'm sure the DDd BS / HIC pilot is ****ed, but awww.

Titans now are instead frequent victims of supercarrier blobs. I don't mind if a Titan gets tackled by a sizable fleet and slowly dies. But the fact that a handful of SCs can relatively quickly kill a titan when a few titans cannot quickly kill a SC is a problem.

So . . . my proposal:

1 - Nerf SCs. They are way too powerful against all capital ships and pos structures (I joined a friend and the two of us completely incapped all mods on a properly fit DS in about 10 minutes and was never in any jeopardy). Cut their HP and the damage the FBs do. Yaay's idea about only 1x additional per level makes some sense. And EdFromHumanResources' ideas on other nerfs also makes sense.

Also, how about a SC skill? Titans require Capital Ships V, why not supercarriers?


2 - Return AOE damage, but in the form of a script. Make it a single-shot ship when you have that script in (but increase it to 5m damage so it finally does some meaningful damage to a SC - it will still instapop anything sub super-cap now anyway) and a AOE weapon when that script is in with 200-300k damage just like it used to have.

This revision will make it necessary to actually use strategy when attacking one rather then just blobbing it and hovering on some "post" button in yet another dead-titan CAOD thread. Like all other mods, you cannot change scrips until the module has cycled, so it does give the hostile fleet some idea of what to consider.

Titans are supposed to be feared. Not just juicy and hunted targets. Bring that fear back. They will still die when used improperly / in smaller fleets. But they will once again be what they were meant to be: The feared ship of Eve.

(and yes: I do fly a SC on one of my alts)

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.01.18 04:08:00 - [263]
 

Nerf doesn't even go far enough tbh.

Wouldn't mind seeing all scap stats reduced to a fraction; cost, dps, ehp.
De-Super them so to say until they fit into the previous capital lineup as specialised capitals.

Still, regardless of the specific direction proposed, there needs to be change.

Erienne
Posted - 2011.01.18 12:45:00 - [264]
 

1. Cynosaural field generators can only be fitted onto a cruiser classed ship with a tank like Heavy Interdictors. Voila. Now everyone will know what that ship is up to; follow you closely and gank you when in low sec. And no cloakies either as it interferes with Cyno generation capacity. Make it bloody hard to get a cyno ship into a systems enemy home. Add in a need for strontium clathrates for stability and a thirty second warm up period after cyno is lit. Impact will be felt on hot drops now won't it. Evil or Very Mad

2. Supercarrier becomes T2 Assault Carrier. Loses ALL high slots bar one which can fit remote ECM projector. Assault carriers are the vanguard of a force; you jump them in to break up a gate camp. Assault carriers field fighter bombers and fighters only. They have *****ing tanks and do great damage. They have a fuel bay and cargo bay and that is it. Bonuses are to racial damage and to tank. They are ECM proof still but can receive NO support from logistics or other capitals.

3. Dreadnaughts damage is buffed across the board so that dreads can **** a supercarrier IN SIEGE.

4. Restore Titan AOE Doomsday - Restrict range to 30km. Titan kills should be bloody hard to achieve but they die like flies.Embarassed

5. Stations become destructible. You don't defend them; they become smashed hulks. If a disused hulk; clones destroyed, ships destroyed, modules destroyed. Return Eve to that ugly dark world where defeat makes you cry. Two fights one to put into reinforced where all services are destroyed. Second one against station; fight or "boom". That is, force a major fight.Twisted Evil

6. Make mining worthwhile in null sec again with scannable awesome belts. Improve the quality of ice belts in null sec markedly. I can mnake moire doing level 4 missions in empire per hour than I can mining or ratting; why bother. Mining should be the number one isk generation method; then ratting; then plexing and then missioning.Shocked

7. Make missioning harder - its too easy to mission.Laughing

8. Change current tier 3 battleships to a new ship class - Pocket Battleship; Pure damage boats (Minnie - guns, Amarr - lasers, gall- hyrbrids and caldari - Missiles). Ship requires Capital Ship/ AWU 5 skills, Capital Armor Rep, only Battleship sized guns and NO jump capability (must use gates). Pocket battleships have awesome tank and great damage, remain vulnerable to ewar. These ships are a stepping stone between battleships themselves and jump capable capital ships.Very Happy

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.01.18 16:32:00 - [265]
 

This doesn't fix the fact that supercaps are more powerful in low sec than in 0.0 - primarily due to the lack of counters available in low sec.

-Liang

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.18 21:12:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Nope, just admitting that your entire posting history in this thread has been arguing a straw man. Not the content, not the suggestions involved, just one thing you twisted to mean what you wanted for 3 pages ^_^ But hey keep on. Loving the bumps.
-You raised a key premise supporting your particular nerf. Your premise was, “We know a supercarrier nerf is incoming. That's been confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt.”
- I suspected this assertion was a lie.
-I politely refrained from calling you a liar and asked you to substantiate.
-You failed to because there was nothing which would verify your assertion and you refused to admit it.
-I proved you a liar by drawing out a line of reasoning which indicated you were either lying or improbably privy to information you should not have been able to access.
-Recently released CSM/CCP summit notes proved you a liar.

No twisting involved there. And since most of your “arguments” and so called “content” rely upon trusting you to tell the truth, because you won’t link any verifications, your credibility is key to the majority of your argument. No straw man argument, no logical fallacy, just fact.

You’re welcome for the bump. Not that one of you wouldn’t bump it anyway and not that you seem to be getting much support. That jump from 39 to 40 thumbs up took Scat……….what? Four major bumps?Smile

-Windjammer


Miasmic Truth
Minmatar
In Pennae of Mors
Posted - 2011.01.18 21:58:00 - [267]
 

SUPER caps are super for a reason; the idea that a small gang should be able to nuet and drop a super cap to me is ridiculous. If you take a step back and look at the material cost vs. performance, it’s not really that great. Dropping it further only and reducing its ability to take on smaller targets defeats the concept to which this ship was born.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.18 22:25:00 - [268]
 

Edited by: Ephemeron on 18/01/2011 22:26:11
Originally by: Miasmic Truth
SUPER caps are super for a reason; the idea that a small gang should be able to nuet and drop a super cap to me is ridiculous. If you take a step back and look at the material cost vs. performance, it’s not really that great. Dropping it further only and reducing its ability to take on smaller targets defeats the concept to which this ship was born.
I think the idea is not for small gang to kill a supercap, but for supercap to be unable to neut and drop entire small gang.

Supercaps and small roaming gangs should simply not be able to do anything to each other.

Also, the concept on which the ship was built on was anti-cap. That role shouldn't be nerfed.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.01.18 22:52:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
This actually isn't a bad plan. They would still retain their role completely while their utility would be stripped. But their DPS would eclipse a titan. That's the only small flaw I see. How would we make titans semi relevant without making them overpowered?


Why would moving the +drone bonus from the hull to the modules boost SC DPS?

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.18 23:43:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
This actually isn't a bad plan. They would still retain their role completely while their utility would be stripped. But their DPS would eclipse a titan. That's the only small flaw I see. How would we make titans semi relevant without making them overpowered?


Why would moving the +drone bonus from the hull to the modules boost SC DPS?



I believe he is talking about the Sansha mothership, it can fit 6x drone control units. DD's fire every 5 minutes, so take a super carriers DPS and add that up over 5 minutes. I'm too lazy to do the math but correct me if I am miss informing here.


Pages: first : previous : ... 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 : last (13)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only