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Ytamii Arval
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.01.08 20:17:00 - [751]
 

Originally by: Captain Bringdown
Are Vherokiors nerfed in this character creator? Confused

<-- Unable to get similar hair or clothings


If by 'nerfed' you mean we've been transformed from Vherokiors to Japanese emo teenagers in order to create characters asian WoW kiddies can more easily relate to, then yes.

Syyl'ara
Gallente
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.01.08 20:22:00 - [752]
 

Edited by: Syyl''ara on 08/01/2011 20:24:29
Build 219281 fixes the freeze at the portrait screen.

On the female model, I got the overall feel that the face molding points were just slightly harder to find. The body had more serious issues in this regard. The lower torso point only activated near the top of the region. The hips were almost impossible to find from certain angles (especially from the side). The upper legs/thighs I could not find at all, and the calves only activated when the cursor was on the feet. When attempting to get at the upper torso, hips, and thighs molds, the shoulders/arms highlight seemed to want to interfere a lot.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.01.08 22:54:00 - [753]
 

Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 08/01/2011 23:16:24
CCP, this build has still not made all clothing options available for all races.

I hate to nag but you need to fix this - can we please get confirmation that CCP knows about this problem?

Also, the "long" hairstyle for males isn't available anymore.

Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
Posted - 2011.01.08 23:49:00 - [754]
 

Apart from there being a number of missing styles in just about everything, hair, eyebrows, makeup, whatever, that make most attempts of recreating our old selves next to impossible, I really dislike the whole end result in relation to creation process. There you are adjusting all sort of minor details that actually seem to matter - and then given some 128x128 or whatever thumbnail that always looks bad no matter what.

Not to mention that the photo-realism makes for truly boring characters, the old cartoonish style gave the races and sub races certain charm and uniqueness, now it's just like watching random normal people's photographs, just reduced in size so you can't really make up anything nor recognize anyone.

I hope the version currently available is far from final because in all honesty this is pretty depressing. I grew attached to my characters over the years. Sad

Eamiela
Caldari
Terry-Thomas's School for Scoundrels
Posted - 2011.01.09 00:25:00 - [755]
 

Edited by: Eamiela on 09/01/2011 00:36:19
// UI feedback 8/12/10 – Build 219281 //

Just tested Amarr and Gallente charecter creation under todays build:

- Character creation working fine – able to create new characters from scratch, both male and female avatars and all bloodlines available.

- Previous invisible UI tools such as zoom in/out and skin tone fixed.

- New clothing section available – ‘top outer’ (total options: top outer, outer, top, bottom and feet).

Did not experience any major bugs – no missing/invisible icons etc. Some clothing icons do not display and said item, instead display 'X' in icon window (e.g. see 3rd link below), also others do not match said item e.g. different colour boots in icon and on character.

Choose Race Screen

Choose Bloodline and Gender

Amarr Male Character Customization Screen

Amarr Male + Hood Portrait

Amarr Male + Metal Headpiece Portrait


All in all, major bugs seem to be fixed :) Now we need more variety in clothing and some extra items e.g Gallente helmets, tattoos, facemasks etc etc etc.
EDIT: also, as mentioned before - Proper long hair for Intaki Males is missing


Syyl'ara
Gallente
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:28:00 - [756]
 

Edited by: Syyl''ara on 09/01/2011 01:29:16
My earlier comments about having difficulty with the morph points did not repeat itself upon doing an Achura female (the one having trouble was an Intaki female). This may have been an issue with alt-tabbing out, did not occur to me until finished, I'll have to wait for the biomass countdown to try and pin down where the problem is or if it is unique to I/f.

Q Aa
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:29:00 - [757]
 

I tried to recreate my character today and this is the result:

Old: Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


new: Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

I didn't notice any bugs so far but i'm missing my "gas mask", my necklace and minmatar need more clothing. The current jackets and vests look to much alike and when choosing shoes and trousers I wasn't thinking hmm i need to find the nicest looking ones but rather: ooh **** theese are so ugly hmm wich are the less ugly ones? and i had to pick them....
otherwise good work, please don't release this thing without it beeing proper i'd still like you to postpone it and implant more hairstyles, height option, and much much more clothing.

Ytamii Arval
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.01.09 07:17:00 - [758]
 

Edited by: Ytamii Arval on 09/01/2011 07:27:00
Bugs noticed in latest build (downloaded about 6 hours ago), run with all graphics options maxed, on an ATI card--

Portrait Screen:

Lighting 'color selections' still produce no color differences, just changes in position of the light source.

Through combinations of moving the camera plus random posing, it's possible to move the character out of the snapshot.

The lighting in the snapshots is way darker than what's on the screen.

Backgrounds are out of focus, even those that obviously should be sharp. I assume this is a problem with the AA.


Customization Screen, Vherokior female:

Randomized hair is always blonde, but all colors can be applied from the palatte.

Eyeshadow doesn't show up, nor does eyeliner.

Eyelashes randomly go vertical.

Long hairstyles are badly clipped by anything they touch; and sometimes takes on unselected colors.

All hairstyles except cropped show a great deal of pixalation and don't appear to be anti-aliased.

Still missing all racial clothing choices.


Customization, Khanid Male:

The neck and upper torso don't age with the face; face can't look younger than 60, neck can't look older than 20.

The facial complexion is not carried through into the neck (or the body for that matter).

Scuplting paramaters make it impossible to create a smile.

Aside from facial hair and complexion, the face has almost no possible variation.

Was only able to get dark hair colors.

I am still missing the Amarr hood/cloak shown above in Eamiela's post (which should be available since my Khanid alt does have a hood).

Joshua Deakin
Posted - 2011.01.09 08:33:00 - [759]
 

Originally by: Ytamii Arval

Portrait Screen:
Lighting 'color selections' still produce no color differences, just changes in position of the light source.

They change for me. You choose the lighting type from the big icons and then use the small "7/7" sub-option to change lights/color.

Quote:
Backgrounds are out of focus, even those that obviously should be sharp. I assume this is a problem with the AA.

Working fine here. Actually it would be better that the backgrounds would not be as sharp as some of them are. Depth of view should be there too, it isolates the subject better. The focus should be the character, not the background. (using 4x AA myself, ATI HD5850)

Quote:
Eyeshadow doesn't show up, nor does eyeliner.

They do for me.

Quote:
Eyelashes randomly go vertical.

Haven't seen this myself. Although the eyelashes are not always (i.e. most of the time) connected to the upper eyelid. Once you lower the eyelid and make the character look to the side and looking from a down at the character you can see that the eyelash is clearly off the eyelid.

Quote:
Sculpting parameters make it impossible to create a smile.

You can make a smile, at least with the females. You just need to wait for the right moment to take the snapshot.
Although this may not be true for all parties involved. The posing phase leaves too many mouth/lip/jaw related aspects half way. For most smiles you should be able to widen the smile more. Draw the corners of the mouth further to the side. It's also tied to the sculpting phase. You don't have enough control on the lower jaw area. I.e the lower lip moves and the tip of the jaw moves back and forth, but not the in between part which means you can't effectively change the length of the lower jaw. Also it seems that the mouth is almost a straight horizontal line which doesn't curve enough to the side. This of course varies between humans too, but in EVE it seems to be super simplified.

Quote:
Aside from facial hair and complexion, the face has almost no possible variation.

This is a problem, the lines are always in the same position. There's no variation in the small details. And small details makes us different.
With the latest male patch it seems that the crooked nose to the right (from the viewers perspective) is not as slanted as before, but it's still slanted to the same side with ALL Intaki male characters. The eyelids and especially the lower eyelid is the same for all inside a bloodline. I wish we'll have more options the change the size and orientation in release, but I'm not getting my hopes up. This applies to the eyebrow too, you should be able to "slant" it better.

It's sort of 60% there, 80% should be achieved. 100% will not be achieved but maybe tattoos and many other accessories will alleviate the sameness you get within the bloodline.

You know when you look at a caricature and even when the proportions are way out of whack you still recognize the celebrity in question. It's the small details that we can't control that make the characters unique.

Here's an interesting website where you can combine totally different faces and create an "average" face that is quite pleasing to me.
Faceresearch.org

And here's a quick collage I made, the leftmost portrait is the combined result of the five girls.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-4/993391/Untitled-1.jpgPlease visit your user settings to enable images.

Joshua Deakin
Posted - 2011.01.09 09:53:00 - [760]
 

On a totally another note, could we please have the Intaki male look a bit further than 10 centimeters? He's very cross-eyed. And the nose, I guess this is the single most determining Intaki feature, but c'mon that nose is Huge. And please do something about the eyelids too, I have to hide him in the shadows otherwise. He's my main and I can only get a so so likability.

Hiram Alexander
Caldari
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.01.09 10:41:00 - [761]
 

Edited by: Hiram Alexander on 09/01/2011 10:41:40

Originally by: Joshua Deakin

This is a problem, the lines are always in the same position. There's no variation in the small details. And small details makes us different.
With the latest male patch it seems that the crooked nose to the right (from the viewers perspective) is not as slanted as before, but it's still slanted to the same side with ALL Intaki male characters. The eyelids and especially the lower eyelid is the same for all inside a bloodline. I wish we'll have more options the change the size and orientation in release, but I'm not getting my hopes up. This applies to the eyebrow too, you should be able to "slant" it better.

It's sort of 60% there, 80% should be achieved. 100% will not be achieved but maybe tattoos and many other accessories will alleviate the sameness you get within the bloodline.

You know when you look at a caricature and even when the proportions are way out of whack you still recognize the celebrity in question. It's the small details that we can't control that make the characters unique.

Here's an interesting website where you can combine totally different faces and create an "average" face that is quite pleasing to me.
Faceresearch.org

And here's a quick collage I made, the leftmost portrait is the combined result of the five girls.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-4/993391/Untitled-1.jpgPlease visit your user settings to enable images.



That is indeed, a very interesting site. Thank you.

Personally, I think it's too late in the day; development-wise, to expect functionality like Eye-size & Rotation to make it into the mix. Which is a real shame - because, as you note - these are vital 'guides' for distinguishing between faces, and bringing a 'true' realism to the creator.

A variation in Rotation/Size, either (plus or minus) 3 to 4 percent would make a massive difference in the 'realism'-stakes; without opening the doors to bizzaro-world.. And if it gets skipped now, I'd be very surprised to see it make it in later, the Dev's will no doubt be dragged-off onto something else.

Adding it would be a joy, though.

Of course, the mouth is also vital - and if enough work was put in now (at the start), so that it was possible to pout/sneer etc. then that functionality and control would carry over later to help with lip-synching for truly-amazing 'machinima'. Again though, if it doesn't get added at the start, I'd be amazed to see it arrive later...


--HA

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2011.01.09 10:56:00 - [762]
 

More customization is needed, I am agreeing with JD and HA here.

Turay
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.09 11:03:00 - [763]
 

Build 6.40.219281

Today I tried to create a Halle Berry avatar.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

I am not happy at all. The eyes are looking to much asian like than african like. The cheekbones' position is to high, Halle's are little bit more to the mouth. The char creator let us move them only horizontal not vertical. I would like to see more effect of secondary hair color, like in the Halle picture. Sometimes the color selection menu is fading in way to slow.

Hiram Alexander
Caldari
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.01.09 11:12:00 - [764]
 

Originally by: Turay
Build 6.40.219281

Today I tried to create a Halle Berry avatar.

<snip> Image </snip>

I am not happy at all. The eyes are looking to much asian like than african like. The cheekbones' position is to high, Halle's are little bit more to the mouth. The char creator let us move them only horizontal not vertical. I would like to see more effect of secondary hair color, like in the Halle picture. Sometimes the color selection menu is fading in way to slow.


I'd have used a 'bushier' eybrow for Halle, than you did. Also, if you don't like the eyes, you could try creating her using a different race, and trying your luck with skin tones.

The cheek-bones can be moved. Just drag them up/down with your mouse, instead of left/right - turning the head 45 degrees or so first, will help you to see the effect more easily.


--HA

Turay
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.09 11:20:00 - [765]
 

However, the Brutors are designed as african style humans and the asian style eyes do not fit this design.

Joshua Deakin
Posted - 2011.01.09 12:47:00 - [766]
 

Originally by: Turay
However, the Brutors are designed as african style humans and the asian style eyes do not fit this design.


Well Halle Berry is not a pure african either Wink

Wikipedia:
!African American father and a Caucasian mother of English heritage"

Ricc Deckard
Trux Germani
Ev0ke
Posted - 2011.01.09 13:39:00 - [767]
 

Edited by: Ricc Deckard on 09/01/2011 13:39:15
I can only create new chars through the char creator. If I select i.e. my main and accept the deceision box to redo this char it results in blackscreen.

Orithien Veladorn
ICE is Coming to EVE
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.09 14:40:00 - [768]
 

Edited by: Orithien Veladorn on 09/01/2011 18:13:17
Edited by: Orithien Veladorn on 09/01/2011 14:52:48
Edited by: Orithien Veladorn on 09/01/2011 14:42:02
The character creator is now much much more responsive, and shaping a new face is a real pleasure.

The overall number of options seem to allow for at least as much diversity than the current creator. Clothing options remain rather limited though: shirts and tanktops would be nice, for example. Overall, there seems to be only 3 or 4 clothing options (apart from the different colors): formal shirt, formal vest, t-shirt, and standard vest.

A few issues are remaining:
- The resulting portrait doesn't always really reflect the feeling i have when i'm adjusting the character pose and lights. It often seems darker and less expressive. I think it has to do with the fact that the resulting portrait is a lot smaller than the "working" portrait.
- Light colors don't seem to be working yet.
- I can't actually save the new portrait for my char. I did it just before for my other char and it worked just fine, but when i relaunched the client sometime later, i ended up with the old portrait again. I suppose it has something to do with the portrait server being busy as many people are revamping their chars at the moment, but right now, i'm actually stuck at the save step and can't exit creation to enter the game. I'm going to try again later, hopefully less people will be redoing chars and the portrait server will have updated with the new picture by then.
- As others said, lights only affect the character, and not the background at all.

Joshua Deakin
Posted - 2011.01.09 15:02:00 - [769]
 

I have a plead for the CCP art department. On 13th on November the Intaki male had "soulful" eye pouches while the current one lacks almost any significant changes when aging is added. The old one had some nice charismatic effects while the current one adds some very strong lines. Also the outside corner of the eye is not very fluid. Also the upper lip is made slightly smaller.

Compare before and after, the first one is from November, the second and third from the left are from today, only one aging step is added.

Which one do you prefer? I obviously like the first one the most.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-4/993391/Intaki_Male_new_Josh_collage.jpgPlease visit your user settings to enable images.

Bring back the more charismatic Intaki male, otherwise let me change bloodlines to the Gallente male Wink

Joshua Deakin
Posted - 2011.01.09 15:10:00 - [770]
 

Originally by: Orithien Veladorn

- The resulting portrait doesn't always really reflect the feeling i have when i'm adjusting the character pose and lights. It often seems darker and less expressive. I think it has to do with the fact that the resulting portrait is a lot smaller than the "working" portrait.



I'm hoping that the snapshot picture is just a placeholder to remind you of a pose you made. The actual server rendered picture will be much more like the original.

I do agree that the difference between what you see in the snapshot and what you see in the "big screen" is not boosting the confidence of whether the picture was "portrait" was successful or not. The snapshot is so degraded and a bit of an "fisheye" that the proportions are changed noticeably. They look much worse almost always compared to the live model. Hopefully it gets resolved before release.

Elistar XI
Posted - 2011.01.09 16:07:00 - [771]
 

Expectations are rather high considering that we're about a week from the release of Incursion, so players expect character creator to be almost ready.

In short: it's very nice, a high degree of realism, but the vast majority is old fashion stuff, nothing futuristic and interesting, the old character customizer had much cooler options.

I'll discuss things in the order that I customize the characters.

1- Hair:
-90% of the haircuts look plain stupid, on both male and female of all races. I always end up choosing between 2 or 3 haircuts that are decently acceptable, not a single one is really awesome or great.
The old hair styles were so much better, especially on gallente females.
Facial hair on males is also widely boring and old fashion.

-hair color: all of them are plain brown/blond > black with a few reds and no other fashionable colors.
We're missing multi-layer hair, which already exists since decades so I am sure it's available in the future. (root color is only affecting facial and eye brow)
Can't we have hair styles with the gallente plastic attachments?

2- Body shape:
Muscularity and weight are nice. however all races and bloodlines have the same body structure.
They should have each their distinct body structure, which doesn't need to be as complex as faces. Asian blood lines have very different bodies than caldari and gallente ones.

3- Eyes:
It's nice that there are different contrasts and sizes, some of the colours are nice, but there is no proper green colour, the shades of green have yellow and red in them. we should have jade green and other nice shades of it, in addition to other futuristic colours like purple, pink (for the ladies) and others.

4- Clothes:
-I understand that there is still a lot of work to be done in assets, but then will we be able to redo our portraits (at least the clothes and backgrounds) later when they're more finished?

-Many of the clothes have different colors than in the portraits.

-The clothes are made to look like there is a lot of choice, when in fact there are maybe 3 models of each piece, just different colour or two colours.
I think it's better and more visible if we select the model and choose the color like we do with hair and others. many of them have 2 or 3 main colours, it would be really nice if we can customize those to our liking, then we'd have a much wider variety and customization without much difficulty for you.

5- Where are all the decorations and tattoos? they're extremely important and I wouldn't want to make a final portrait without them (if at all a final one)

6 The 4 photos we take at the end are small, we should be able to see the full login portrait size as well. also it would be nice if the settings of each is saved so that we click on one and it activates it (all settings, background, pose, lights...etc)
- no background lighting
- no big variety of backgrounds, just a big number. they're nice, but we need a variety of ideas of backgrounds.
most of them are a stone wall with something on it. would be nice to have environments as well, rooms, luxury places, spots on a spaceship or station...etc

a few other things:
- Amarr: their feemales all look like grandmas no matter how hard I try to make them young, they end up looking like an overage hooker.
- lipstick, only 9 colors, and a few models. we need a bigger variety of colors and to be able to we customize with 2 color?
- will we be able to change the portrait settings later?

Joshua Deakin
Posted - 2011.01.09 16:23:00 - [772]
 

Originally by: Elistar XI
- no background lighting


This is a big omission compared to the old creator. Now it's more like you have to choose the background to go with selected lighting and vice versa.
The old creator created this nice ambiance which is seriously lacking on the current one. As you select a background on the "prototype" creator many of the lighting options are not usable as the difference is too big between fore- and background. Either in intensity or in color.

PLEXIN CARGO
Posted - 2011.01.09 16:28:00 - [773]
 

Edited by: PLEXIN CARGO on 09/01/2011 16:31:10
I do hope you read this CCP and realize the players would like you to actually finish this amazing tool befor releasing it...
It has lots of potential.
Release it when it's finished and it will be an awsome tool that both new and old players will enjoy and remember.
Release it to soon, when it's not ready, and it will just be another creator fot the new players + the old players will be very unhappy because of the few choices we have in hair/clothing + the removal of tattoos and necklaces... Many people are simply unhappy about the new avatars they will get...
Please CCP make this craetor perfect before you release it.

Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Posted - 2011.01.09 19:07:00 - [774]
 

SUPPORTED!!!

EXCELLENCE SHOULD MEAN (AS A MINIMUM) FINISHED FUNCTIONALITY AND CONTENT


Originally by: PLEXIN CARGO
Edited by: PLEXIN CARGO on 09/01/2011 16:31:10
I do hope you read this CCP and realize the players would like you to actually finish this amazing tool befor releasing it...
It has lots of potential.
Release it when it's finished and it will be an awsome tool that both new and old players will enjoy and remember.
Release it to soon, when it's not ready, and it will just be another creator fot the new players + the old players will be very unhappy because of the few choices we have in hair/clothing + the removal of tattoos and necklaces... Many people are simply unhappy about the new avatars they will get...
Please CCP make this craetor perfect before you release it.

Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Posted - 2011.01.09 19:19:00 - [775]
 

Edited by: Hawk TT on 09/01/2011 19:19:47
SiSi Build #219281 2011-09-01

1) There are missing implants on the back of the naked Amarr male.
2) There are some rendering bugs related to PhysX Cloth Simulation, especially with Amarr Robes.

I guess these are known poblems to CCP, but because they are not affecting the portraits, they are not on top of the Back Log...Confused

Check the problematic areas within the red rectangles
1) Amarr Male - Missing Back Implants
2) Amarr Male - Cloth Clipping & Collision (Hand / Boots) Bug

I was wondering if the Amarrs have supperior capabilities and don't need all the spinal implants like the other races...LaughingRazz

PTang
Posted - 2011.01.09 19:37:00 - [776]
 

Edited by: PTang on 09/01/2011 19:37:16
Originally by: Joshua Deakin
Originally by: Elistar XI
- no background lighting


This is a big omission compared to the old creator. Now it's more like you have to choose the background to go with selected lighting and vice versa.
The old creator created this nice ambiance which is seriously lacking on the current one. As you select a background on the "prototype" creator many of the lighting options are not usable as the difference is too big between fore- and background. Either in intensity or in color.



oh yeah! I thought something looked wrong. The background doesn't get lit, CCP! shame on you for over looking that.

Hawk TT
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Posted - 2011.01.09 19:47:00 - [777]
 

SiSi Build #219281 2011-09-01

1) Amarr / Amarr Males have some dental pathology...is it a DNA related problem or what? Laughing
2) Teeth / Lip clipping is buggy

Check the following screenshots (quite funny characters):
1) Amarr Male - Teeth/Lip Clipping Bug
2) Amarr Male - Severe Teeth/Lip Clipping Bug ShockedLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

CCP, nerfing the allowed sculpting range is not a solution, the jaw/teeth should be moved along with the lip/chin morphing...Embarassed

Joshua Deakin
Posted - 2011.01.09 20:19:00 - [778]
 

Originally by: PTang
Originally by: Joshua Deakin
Originally by: Elistar XI
- no background lighting


This is a big omission compared to the old creator...


oh yeah! I thought something looked wrong. The background doesn't get lit, CCP! shame on you for over looking that.


Just tried the old TQ creator and things it does better than the current "alpha/beta/release candidate":
- better lighting i.e. with the lighting affecting the background creates more interesting character portraits
- the lighting is also better directed, i.e. for example the eyes are much easier to get a "shine on", with the beta, the eyes go dead when looking towards the light source
- with the lighting theme continued, while the added reflectivity may not as realistic for skin, the old TQ creator still manages to produce very distinct and interesting results.

- And lastly, while CCP may not even want to show all content at this testing phase, I'm seriously hoping they can find a solution how to project tattoos so that they look good on characters. The current collection leaves a lot to be desired.

Where the APB (all points bulletin cancelled MMO) shined was that of the way it allowed texture creation, placement and customization. If CCP plans to make it from scratch and not use middleware it's no wonder the development time might be a tad bit tight.

Menkaure
Amarr
LEM0N
Posted - 2011.01.09 23:56:00 - [779]
 

Edited by: Menkaure on 09/01/2011 23:57:06

Admittedly my first go with the char creator, spent a few hours playing with my chars all seem to be pretty impressive.... but I have one real issue. The Amarr/Amarr (my main character) bloodline.... there is simply no way to get anyone looking below the age of 40 - even with the age setting on complexion on nil. I mean I can live with the restrictively huge nose and the sunken eyes/mouth, but do Amarrians spawn from the womb at middle age?

Want to be at least a little younger. Crying or Very sad

And on that note... Amarr/Amarr hairstyles? Ok, fine. So we're old. Currently two options: Baldness, or looking like one of those creepy guys who're 50 and still dressing like 1950's greasers.





PLEXIN CARGO
Posted - 2011.01.10 00:45:00 - [780]
 

Edited by: PLEXIN CARGO on 10/01/2011 00:46:21
If you think incarna will look stupid with everyone beeing the same height and you want them to implant it in the character creator please support this thread: incarna height option!


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