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Argus Kell
Lost Enterprises...
Posted - 2010.12.23 16:58:00 - [271]

I donít really mind the current UI to be honest. This new one looks nice and useful but a blatant copy of the Windows Task Bar is hardly the kind of innovation Iíve come to expect of CCP. I found it hard to take a dev blog that basically describes the functionality of the task bar as though its this new fangled thing hard to take seriously. I also agree that a vertical option is a MUST. I play on my laptop and have a lot more space horizontally speaking than vertically. I donít want this at the bottom wasting valuable space.

At the end of the day it doesnít look like itíll hurt anything and hopefully will be a foundation for more improvements in the future. Iím personally more interested in Incarna and Incarna-related expansion elements or a UI that makes drone control, orbiting enemies etc, simpler than select target, go across screen, right-click, carefully select correct option.

Iíd also have appreciated if the dev blog had explained why they decided that ripping off Windows 7 was better than any other ideas they had come up with.

tartan pixie
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.23 17:43:00 - [272]

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: tartan pixie

The infinity button is ungroup all weapons. No I don't know why either.

I believe that is supposed to represent a link instead of an infinity symbol.

Is it really that hard to operate the quote function?

Posted - 2010.12.23 21:00:00 - [273]

Originally by: CCP Optimal
"Should this iteration of the new feature not meet your expectations, you can simply turn it off for the time being and tell us why you did so on the forums"
Thank you. Turned off, soley because it can't be made vertical.

While you're at it, can you please also add a button in General Settings to turn off the ring menu? The one we already suffer with, pretty please?

As abhorrent as this forced-horizontal neocom 'improvement' appears to be, reading recently that even more ring menus are being developed is beyond all reason.

The ring menu is evil incarnate & should be fired into the Sun.

Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2010.12.24 00:04:00 - [274]

CCP, might I recommend you keep count of how many people turn it on then off again, as an indication of how well it is being received? I know it's easy to ignore feedback in a thread like this as the whinging of the vocal minority, but hard stats on how many people like it enough to use it should be more concrete, if not necessarily more palatable to the staff who worked on it.

Mareth Hades
Posted - 2010.12.24 13:09:00 - [275]

something that I noticed these days is that the button to undock in the new neocom is covered by window of station information in screen resolutions of 1024 x 768 (yeah, i got an old monitor)but at highers resolutions is not a problem (with my other computer), this requires minimizing the window to get out of the station, maybe i`m not the only one with a small monitor. I think this is the only functionality note so far.
perhaps it you place the NeoCon above all windows the problem is solved.
The rest is a big improvement to UI thx guys, good work.

Smoke Adian
League of Gentlemen
Posted - 2010.12.24 16:22:00 - [276]

Edited by: Smoke Adian on 24/12/2010 16:21:56
I wanted to throw my laptop thru a window until I figured out how to disable the nested taskbar system in Windows 7. Please don't copy this system. Remember kids, 1 click is always better than 2.

Posted - 2010.12.24 20:23:00 - [277]

Ok I've been playing with it and I agree with everyone who says there needs to be and option to keep it on the side.

Grash Freedom
I Maza
Posted - 2010.12.25 01:50:00 - [278]

Edited by: Grash Freedom on 25/12/2010 01:59:47

Make a Vertical option please, it is nice, not needed but since you are doing it then do it right

Edit: already have windows installed having dual taskbars first will look bad second it is way too confusing,
Vertical option is a must, not just a must it is essential beyond explanation
also keep it vertical
did i mention that this needs to be vertical??

Angel O'Sphere
Posted - 2010.12.25 18:35:00 - [279]

In our days screens become wider and wider and in relation to the width the hight is shrinking.
I for certain want the NeoCon to stick on the left side of the screen and certainly not on the bottom of it. The configuration options might be nice, but please also leave an option to decide wether I want it at the side or on the bottom or on the top.
I don't know how it is in our day on windows, but having the game in windowed mode and moving the mouse to the bottom likely lets pop up the task bar ... at least that is what is happening on a Mac, very annoying if the program has "it own task bar".

Sorry to say that, but instead of making freaky experiments with us, why not hiring a users interface expert?

Best Regards,


Melrose Armstrong
Old Timers Guild Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.25 21:41:00 - [280]

I am also concerned that the BLog gave no indication that the Neo-Neocom could be displayed vertically. I have enough trouble getting all the stuff displayed on the overview and my chat window stack without loosing lines to a new bar, not to mention that bizarre logo in the lower right that seems to steal another inch.

Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
Posted - 2010.12.25 22:29:00 - [281]

Love it, just PLEASE PLEASE Dont restrict it to bottom alignment only. Thanks!!

Paramount Commerce
Posted - 2010.12.26 01:57:00 - [282]

The undock button needs to be moved off the NeoCom.

Tomo Meiji
Posted - 2010.12.26 10:13:00 - [283]

UI changes! (cautiously optimistic)

[1] I strongly agree that a vertical neocom must remain an option.

[2] IdeaWhat about 3rd party skinning? CCP gets to outsource UI development (free labour from you and me, get to headhunt the more successful skins), and players get awesome customizability (Hello Kitty skin, anyone?). I call that a Win-Win scenario!

[3] I also very strongly support the posts about the UI steps required for: overheating, changing orbit distance and drone management. It seems to me that these changes would offer a much greater "usability ROI" with regards to Dev Time than refactoring the neocom.

I'm glad to see the dev team looking at the UI, looking forward to starting a post with "UI improvements!Very Happy" instead of "UI changes".

Keep heart, devs!

Quartermaster Owen
Posted - 2010.12.26 18:13:00 - [284]

I hope this gonna be the Optimal so user can choose how they want to set the UI with Classic UI and New NeoCom. I would like to have more UI customization and how I wanted it to be setup on my screen since I'm using 4:3 monitor..

CCP keep up the good work! o7

Barrier Reef
Posted - 2010.12.26 19:04:00 - [285]

Good to see UI getting attention. It appears on the taskbar screenshots that while the icons scale the fonts don't! What happens is that there is no comfortable distance to view all UI elements on a high res screen.

Scale the fonts please. Lets us chose the font size.

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2010.12.27 06:02:00 - [286]

IMO If this is the best CCP can come up with for a replacement Neo-com, it is high-time that CCP restructured their organisation to be able to leverage the creative minds and eject the hangers-on.

Is this really work that;
- you are proud of?
- you think was worth mentioning in a blog?
- you feel is in step with the ground-breaking quality of Eve-online?
- you actually applied any significant effort to?

If the answer to any of the above questions is "Yes", then implement my first suggestion for the sake of 350,000 souls.

Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.12.27 15:45:00 - [287]

I wouldn't mind a 'Favourite Place' button that you can assign say 10 bookmarks to so you've got a quick reference for Jita, Amarr or where ever.

Liga der hessischen Gentlemen
Posted - 2010.12.27 20:04:00 - [288]

I'd love to get widgets on those: like displaying your current wallet-status right in the toolbar!

Sed Man
Havoc Violence and Chaos
Posted - 2010.12.28 03:25:00 - [289]

page 10, hope CCP gets to read this.

Please take into account future 3D enhancments (support for nvidia 3d vision + others)
Please take the time to ensure that the new neocom is set at the appropriate (tested) depth so that its one part out of the way.

Once the brackets are updated in another iteration the 3D vision mite be complete.

I'm not suggesting any focus on 3Difying eve, just that if a hard set variable can be set in the first instance that makes the neocom look good in 3D, it would be a good idea to do it today, while someone is working on it, rather than have someone look at it down the track. I'm sure it would only be a small change if anything.

The depth setting has no effect on non 3d system users, but when you do get the 3D, you'll appreciate it if its actually setup right.

Q Aa
Posted - 2010.12.28 11:09:00 - [290]

Edited by: Q Aa on 28/12/2010 11:11:46
I've been playing around with it for an hour or so now.

1. We should be able to put icons anywhere on the screen (would look amazing when auto-hiding the neocome just to have the ones you think are most important always viable)

2. Vertical option please.

3. I read the devblog and it says when you click the browser you should be able to get a list of bookmarks (looking like the chat icon when you press it) but it doesn't work. That would be great!

4. we should be able to have more stuff as icons on the neocom for example "Contacts" would be great so that u wont have to click many times to see them.

5. We should be able to have bookmarks on the neocom separate aswell as chat windows, notes, playlists for the jukebox, corporation tabs, Planets with the view in planet mode option all theese for easy access, you get the point the more options the better!

6. the names of stuff should pop up over the neocom when holding your mouse on them

So far i Love the new neocom i'll start using it at once when it comes to Tranquility keep up the good work CCP and thanx! ♥♥♥

Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.29 01:40:00 - [291]

Oh hell Yeah!!! Just getting it under, relieves the pain. Eyes not hurts! No!

It is a great move, NECOM is excellent!

Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.12.29 13:04:00 - [292]

I'm not sure if it's been said yet (I didn't feel like reading 10 pages of replies), but the undock button is now under the station menu. Please either put it on the left, or somewhere that we can access it.

In fact, now that we have the new neocom, you might have to redesign the whole station window, as the 'real estate' will collide. Just something to think about.

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2010.12.30 07:47:00 - [293]

Engine trails -YES PLEASE! Exclamation

Spork Witch
The Program
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2010.12.30 16:54:00 - [294]

When you enable it on Sisi, this is the only link it gives, so I'll post it here.

So far so good, the aesthetic is nice, and it's easy to clean up the clutter. However, in very short order, I did notice a couple things that are either absolutely critical, or would just make it more useful.

As is already stated in the blog, the sooner you allow aligning it to whichever screen edge you want, the better. At 16:9 on a 23" display at 1920x1080, the default size is a little tall, but you can adjust that, so not a big deal. It is nice having it on the left, though, it's what we're used to. This is an "it would be nice" item.

Absolutely critical is the following: the new neocom must be set to "always on top." especially if you set it to auto-hide. This is probably the most wonderful thing I see about the new menu, and that's freeing up additional screen real-estate, the problem is that it doesn't do a bloody bit of good if I have to have all my windows in the middle of my screen anyway because, no matter what, all windows are on top of the new neocom (whether they're pinned or not, whether the neocom is on auto-hide or not).

Another "it would be nice" is simply to cause all windows to have a taskbar icon, with appropriate auto-grouping (auto-grouping appears to already be there, at least on chat windows). Most of your quick-access type stuff is already right there (char sheet, skill queue, undock, ships, and items), I don't need much else on the bar, but what would be nice is to use the bar to quickly raise focus or minimize any active window (at this time, some, such as "station info" are not shown on the neocom taskbar.)

Expanding on that last, I've got my ships and items windows docked into my station info window, I don't need the icons on the neocom, how about allowing their removal, like most of the rest of the buttons?

Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2010.12.30 20:00:00 - [295]

Ugh, I despise auto-grouping. I can understand that any feature has its opponents as well as its proponents so please, for the love of every usability study everywhere ever, just MAKE STUFF USER-CONFIGURABLE! ugh

Spork Witch
The Program
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2010.12.31 07:35:00 - [296]

Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
Ugh, I despise auto-grouping. I can understand that any feature has its opponents as well as its proponents so please, for the love of every usability study everywhere ever, just MAKE STUFF USER-CONFIGURABLE! ugh

I definitely agree, user choice is always the best option. That being said, if it's an "either / or," most people find grouping quite convenient and helpful. One thing is certain, unless you're a noob in an NPC corp, having the chat window NOT grouped on the taskbar would be unusable (if you click it you'll see that EACH TAB has an item in the group; this is how it should be, and is the logical way to program it, as each is a separate window, you can just dock them into a combined window in the UI, as most people do). If they weren't grouped, most people wouldn't have any space left on the task bar, even at ridiculously high horizontal resolutions.

What is it you don't like about taskbar grouping, if I may ask? It's been one of my favorite, and one of the most useful, features in various window managers for years, and is probably the biggest (UI-related) thing I liked that was added in Vista / Win7 (alongside being able to rearrange where buttons are on the taskbar). With very few exceptions, it's almost always more convenient and helpful having associated windows grouped on the taskbar, especially for users like me who tend to have a lot of stuff open at once (normally Mumble, Firefox, Thunderbird, Pidgin, Skype, X-Fire, at least two EVE clients, and a video player; unless I'm PvPing, in which case I disable everything but the combat pilots and Mumble).

If like windows weren't grouped, I'd be looking at a minimum of two items for pidgin, and potentially a lot more for thunderbird and xfire. Especially in Windows, which doesn't support spanning the taskbar across multiple monitors (without non-free third party software that often doesn't do a very good job, ESPECIALLY if you prefer the auto-hide feature, which is unreliable at the best of times in some of them), I'd be running out of space on the taskbar within 5 minutes of sitting down at the computer.

EVE can easily get much worse, depending on what you're doing at the time. Grouping, at least the option, is definitely important.

Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2011.01.01 03:07:00 - [297]

I'm exactly the opposite. I close programs I'm not using, I cull tabs/windows regularly, and I don't want to click two or three times to raise a minimised item, since I invariably have taskbar space to host everything I run.

EG right now, I have Eve, EFT, Steam and Firefox open. My system tray has 6 icons in it. Another copy of Eve wouldn't cause me any grief at all, and I'd much rather have the "left" one be my main and the "right" one be my alt than have to click and click again to swap.

The Phayder Corporation
Posted - 2011.01.02 04:19:00 - [298]

I wanted to weigh in here on the new Neocom. I echo what I've read others here request (demand?) and that is give us a choice to snap the bar to top/bottom/or sides. I'm a 1920x1080 user and my vertical screen real estate is at a premium. Even with the auto hide enabled the HUD is pushed up further towards the center of the screen. This makes too much sense. Locking it to the bottom would be a real bad, "bone-headed" move.

While examining the new Neocom and how it works I came across another "it'd be more intuitive if ..." and that is when clicking on a button to open for example the market window (or whatever) clicking that same button a 2nd time will minimize that window, not close it. This behavior should be either configurable or 2nd click closes windows. It's easy enough to access, there is no reason to leave it open (minimized) imo.

Posted - 2011.01.02 06:31:00 - [299]

I turned it on. Hated it. 2 minutes later I turned it off. Please make it.....


The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.01.02 16:24:00 - [300]

Edited by: EvilSource on 02/01/2011 16:30:08

Drones menu, while your overhauling the UI, I have a small suggestion on the drones menu.

1. Have a "group drones tickbox" which only displays one of each drone type i.e "Hammerhead 2 (8)", in my vexor, domi, pilgrim and carrier its a nightmare, especially carrier having 400 unstacked drones. I know there is the group option but they disappear if you remove drones and re-add them, and it just doesn't work effectivly. This way if ppl like the old way, they can still use it, just untick the box

2. Right Click Menu
When you right click on a drone in the drone bay I suggest this menu
Launch > Launch Max
Launch 1
Launch 2
Launch 3
Launch 4
Launch 5
Each of these options will launch the number selected of that drone type with the most health in drone bay. i.e in drone bay you right click "Hammerhead 2 (8)" 3 of which are damaged, it will launch the good 5.

Launch Max option will launch maxiumum number of drones conrtollable or all of that type, whichever is greater. i.e in a carrier you "Launch Max" on "Hammerhead 2 (8)" it will launch them all and you'll still have room to launch 2 more.

I only go up to launch 5 because if your in a carrier its not so difficult to either launch max on fighters or launch groups of 5, going upto 25 for supercarriers would just end in a hugeeeeee right click menu

I think the display system for launched drones is fine as its nice to see the HP of each drone but I would suggest if you click on any drone in the bay you get the same menu as for launch but "Recover > " etc

Also the current groups system is a pain as it varies dependant upon the ship. I want a constant drone menu not one that changes every time I reship. If I put Hammerhead II's in a group named "Hammerhead II's" I want all hammerhead II's in a group named Hammerhead II's all of the time.


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