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Pricer Chekar
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:40:00 - [1]
 

I live in 0.0, for 2 reasons.

1- High sec is fairly boring and lacks freedom.
2- Low sec is completely broken.

You have groups of people in BS and Tech III's perma camping gates in stations, able to permanently tank the guns. On top of that, the 0.1 systems are usually safer than the 0.4.

You have 0.0 fleets who fly through 0.4 on their daily roams, not hindered at all by the "low security"

Aren't low security systems supposed to have security? Of course not concord, but maybe guns that prevent permanent camping by 2 people? or gates that don't allow criminals (Global Timer) to jump?

This is just an observation from a null sec pilot.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:43:00 - [2]
 

lowsec is broken for lots of reasons. You listed none of them.

Bloody Puppy
Minmatar
bulloxer
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:53:00 - [3]
 

cool story bro

now muzzle me

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:54:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Selinate on 15/12/2010 20:54:46
I don't think anyone should be able to tank the guns in 0.4 (except maybe capital ships and the likes), but that's just me, and me and CCP tend to differ on opinions sometimes.

Pricer Chekar
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:56:00 - [5]
 

Your opinions are your opinions. But can we keep the leet speak and random comments to a minimum?

Dhaul
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:57:00 - [6]
 

The real problem is that sentry guns cannot be speed/sig tanked.

Pricer Chekar
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:00:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Dhaul
The real problem is that sentry guns cannot be speed/sig tanked.


I agree that a stabber / vagabond or interceptor should be able to survive the guns for a time.

I just feel that no one should be able to permanently tank them.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:02:00 - [8]
 

Low sec is like a way station, careberas come out and get killed, wormhole peeps resupply and get killed. 00 peeps fly through and get killed

The rats are rubbish most systems are empty save for a scout of some nearby pirates who sit there 23/7 looking for targets and well thats about it

Grav sites are fat but remained unmined save for foolhardy ratters and priate alts farming em for bs spawns which have been nuked as well recently

Enord Loej
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:05:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Enord Loej on 15/12/2010 21:05:48
Low sec is pretty much pointless for most of EVE. If you want high rewards and low risk, go to null sec. If you want low rewards and low risk go to high sec. If you want high risk and low rewards, go to low sec.

Pricer Chekar
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:09:00 - [10]
 

I think most problems with low sec could be solved by preventing perma-tanking of sentry guns.

(Example - Guns could do more damage with each shot? or drain cap with each shot?)

and preventing criminals with cool downs from jumping to any system but 0.0.

Sisko Loponen
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:17:00 - [11]
 

Lo-sec systems are going through normal natural cycle. The amount of "hunters" (pirates) was increased too high over the years and they "ate"(scared) all the "prey"(whoever was in lo-sec not looking to kill other players).

In nature this happens all the time, you get lot of mouse, in result to that the amount of their predators like owls etc raise as there is more food avaible in following seasons which in turn results the amount of mouse to go down. Then the food supply of owls goes down and they die off, which allows mouse to multiply etc etc etc.

Empire is like zoo where there is no real "natural" growth factor. 0.0 is more along same hunters fighting over resources. How this can be fixed? It cannot. If you increase rewards in lo-sec it only results more "preys" to travel there which results in more "predators". Which in turn scare away the prey as no matter how good the rewards are, they wont motivate if you get podded as soon as you undock. If you increase/decrease security you turn it to empire/zero-sec.

I do agree lo-sec might use small increase in it's rewards, but perhaps more correct aproach would be to turn lo-sec missions, even lvl 4's to ones that you dont need battleship to complete, instead moving towards pvp ship fit speed missions? Rewards would go down as you wouldnt receive rat bounties but on the other hand you're less likely to be catched, probed or just caught when travelling system gates in bs.

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:32:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Deen Wispa on 15/12/2010 21:34:08
Originally by: Pricer Chekar
I think most problems with low sec could be solved by preventing perma-tanking of sentry guns.

(Example - Guns could do more damage with each shot? or drain cap with each shot?)

and preventing criminals with cool downs from jumping to any system but 0.0.


i agree. there's too much fighting at the gates and this has resulted in the BC class fleets which can tank the sentry guns. this leads to gatecamping and nobody fighting at the asteroid belts. the few who are at the belts are either bait or some complete noob ratting.

given that most noobs start out in frigs or cruisers, it's tough for them to find a good fight because everyone is at the gates. there's no way in hell they can tank the sentry guns so this means they cant learn to pvp properly.

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:36:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Dhaul
The real problem is that sentry guns cannot be speed/sig tanked.


That would be nice because then the skilled frigs/cruiser pilots could agress the BCs who are gatecamping. But the downside is that this just leads to more gatecamping :(

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:52:00 - [14]
 

Low-sec should be made what it was intended to be, an area where risk was higher than high-sec, but lower than 0.0, and reward fell between the two too.

There's a very easy way of achieving that too. It's very simple!

Make TRAVEL in low-sec protected, i.e. CONCORD is active at gates and at stations, but ACTIVITY not protected.

Someone shooting you at a station or gate? No problem. CONCORD blows them up!
Someone shooting you at a belt, exploration site or mission pocket? That's your problem. Handle them yourself!

Problem COMPLETELY solved! Low-sec would be at the right danger and reward level, and could perform it's intended function as a place to get ones combat feet wet with the right level of risk.

Cheap gate/station-gankers would be removed, and REAL pirates (the ones hunting down their target) would get more targets.

Now hear the cheap gate-gankers start their poo-poo'ing Cool

Beauregard Jackson
Minmatar
GRUMPS RESEARCH TEAM
Army of Dark Shadows
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:59:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Deen Wispa

given that most noobs start out in frigs or cruisers, it's tough for them to find a good fight because everyone is at the gates. there's no way in hell they can tank the sentry guns so this means they cant learn to pvp properly.


Gatecamping is not proper PVP.

rain9441
Big Head Want Dolly
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:02:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Enord Loej
Edited by: Enord Loej on 15/12/2010 21:05:48
Low sec is pretty much pointless for most of EVE. If you want high rewards and low risk, go to null sec. If you want low rewards and low risk go to high sec. If you want high risk and low rewards, go to low sec.


0.0 is more risky than low sec. Try doing anything in NPC 0.0 space without an alliance or intel channel. Now try doing something in enemy 0.0 space without an alliance or intel channel. Now try doing something like the above without a cov ops cloak, interdiction nullifier and probe immunity. Now try doing something like above in a mining barge or battlecruiser sized ship.

Don't forget to upgrade your clone after each attempt.

Now one can join an alliance or purchase blue status and sit in 0.0 all day. This is what macros do. The only threat is an AFK cloaker (lol). But for a solo player, it's just not possible. What you refer to as 0.0 is really just an area of 0.0 where a very quantity of players agree not to shoot eachother.

The truth is that low sec isn't low sec at all. It's basically NPC 0.0 space without bubbles. You also get a set amount of DPS in your favor if someone agresses you at a gate. It's quite a lackluster amount of DPS though. And quite honestly, if you aren't at a gate you aren't getting any of the gate gun benefits.

The only reason 0.0 is less risky to you is because you have hundreds if not thousands of locals who don't shoot you.

In order for low sec to work, it actually needs a low amount of security. The only security it has is the inability for bubbles to be placed. But for most of the encounters that would occur in low sec, using a mid slot for a scrambler does the job just fine. Bubble free zones just allow for the cloak/mwd trick to work.

CCP could have fixed low sec years ago, they haven't, so they never will.

Pou Tau
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:04:00 - [17]
 



Gatecamping is not proper PVP.


+ 10/10

Gate camping is not pvp, unless it is a warfare issue (ie 0.0 routes).
Go look at the kill board of most -10 people.
They are full of tech 1 cruisers, and destroyers in tech 1 mods ie people farming new players.
Since most vet players do not get caught in station camps, nor risk anything big without a scout, predominantly new players suffer.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:12:00 - [18]
 

Lo-sec is broken because there isn't enough buckets of isk lying around

Umega
Solis Mensa
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:23:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Doddy
Lo-sec is broken because there isn't enough buckets of isk lying around


Ahhh.. we'll see about that. It'll be interesting to see what happens when Nocxium starts to flirt with the 800 isk per unit range.

Problem isn't so much lowsec not having population, it's the opposite imo. It is flooded with legit pirates and wannabe PvPers grouping up to find easier prey. It is more organized, I think that's the key. Bottleneck systems and key spots of interest are swarmed.. so people aren't going to bother, I don't think the risk vs reward matters.

Without any changes, the only thing I can see increasing the wannabe-PvPers getting more easier targets and actual good pirates getting more ransom chances, which is generally what people ***** about wanting when anyone ever brings up lowsec.. is more highsec mining/indy corps making strategic efforts to get some lowsecs jaspet and such when Nocx tickles the ABC value thresh point.

Other than that.. its broken cause players made it that way. Intentional or not.. is what it is. Can't fix players.. only the rules they have to follow, and there lies the potential fix.

Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:36:00 - [20]
 

I love low sec.

I sit in my bhaalgorn/nightmare/mach or whatever (web bonus is the best) on a kick out station being remote seboed by 2 carrier alts. Instalock and pop everything pretty much. If people come I get the remote reps going. If dps is too much I dock the ship in carrier and warp the pod out while laughing in local. Couldn't be more fun and get the most tears I've ever seen!

Cartheron Crust
Matari Exodus
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:37:00 - [21]
 

Tier the gate defences to the sec status. Give them sleeper AI.

0.1 stay as is
0.2 +1 sentry
0.3 +1 sentry +1 web tower
0.4 +1 sentry +1 web tower +1 neut tower

Or something along those lines.

Sly Noble
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:45:00 - [22]
 

The main reason low sec sucks is that once you have a negative sec status YOU ARE STUCK IN LOW SEC.

Assuming you don't want to spend the rest of your life in 0.0, the game punishes you for having pvp fun in empire.

Heres what needs to happen:

1) remove the faction police/concord (whatever) insta scram/shoot when -sec chars enter hi sec. This is wholly unnecessary. Its not like low sec pirates can pull off the same stuff in hi sec... you can't just randomly shoot people in hi sec anyway so I see no point to this severe limitation.

2) instead have all characters/carebears be able to shoot at and blow up any negative sec chars in hi sec without any concord interference.

This fixes two problems: 1) it allows -sec players to roam about hi sec and not make their lives suck as much 2) it grants the -sec pirates more pvp opportunities (which is what they want).

I see no problems with this.

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
The Black Armada
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:46:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Zendoren on 15/12/2010 22:50:30
Hay, I don't come to your home, complain that you are PVPing incorrectly and tell CCP to fix 0.0 do I?
No I don't, I take my surprise sex off bubbled gates like everyone else and quietly go about my business.

So, STFU GTFO and stay in 0.0

Come back when you've grown a set and know how low-sec works!

Love and Kisses,
Zen

@CCP: please fix low-sec!

Pou Tau
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:49:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
I love low sec.

I sit in my bhaalgorn/nightmare/mach or whatever (web bonus is the best) on a kick out station being remote seboed by 2 carrier alts. Instalock and pop everything pretty much. If people come I get the remote reps going. If dps is too much I dock the ship in carrier and warp the pod out while laughing in local. Couldn't be more fun and get the most tears I've ever seen!


If thats how you get kills, then gaaaa faaaa, no one thinks of you as a pvper, or a pirate.
Rather you are an annoyance, a pathetic leach whom does nothing more than stare at your kill board.
If you solely gain pleasure from others loses, you have a problem.

The purpose of pvp is for your gain, at another's loss.
If you gain nothing worthwhile, You are not doing it right.


psycho freak
Minmatar
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:50:00 - [25]
 

to op

did u lose a ship to those nasty ppl in lo-sec

go buck to null sec were u r safe with jump bridges and sh!t 0.0 is broken in alot ways

welcome to eve btw o7

p.s u mad bro ?

rain9441
Big Head Want Dolly
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:52:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Doddy
Lo-sec is broken because there isn't enough buckets of isk lying around


Or because there are too many buckets of isk lying around in high sec. L4 missions ftw.

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
The Black Armada
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:55:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Zendoren on 15/12/2010 22:55:29
Originally by: rain9441
Originally by: Doddy
Lo-sec is broken because there isn't enough buckets of isk lying around


Or because there are too many buckets of isk lying around in high sec. L4 missions ftw.


On top of that, too many buckets lying around 0.0 *cough* moons *cough*.

Low-sec is how eve should be. Fight to survive and sale the booty for isk!

Pricer Chekar
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:58:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: psycho freak
to op

did u lose a ship to those nasty ppl in lo-sec

go buck to null sec were u r safe with jump bridges and sh!t 0.0 is broken in alot ways

welcome to eve btw o7

p.s u mad bro ?


No bro, I dont fall for those pathetic tactics.
Its easy to avoid you by jumping systems, and running logistics.
The most I can say Ive lost to "your kind" is a scouting ibis.

I primarily see these camping tactics affecting new players, which is where my concern is directed.
If you drive away new players because the first pvp they see is some
furiously annoying guy
camping, it affects the entire game.

My advice to you, pvp something that is worth killing, other wise you are just a bottom feeder.

You mad because people dont count you as a real pvper?

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
The Black Armada
Posted - 2010.12.15 23:03:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Zendoren on 15/12/2010 23:04:02
Originally by: Pricer Chekar
Originally by: psycho freak
to op

did u lose a ship to those nasty ppl in lo-sec

go buck to null sec were u r safe with jump bridges and sh!t 0.0 is broken in alot ways

welcome to eve btw o7

p.s u mad bro ?


No bro, I dont fall for those pathetic tactics.
Its easy to avoid you by jumping systems, and running logistics.
The most I can say Ive lost to "your kind" is a scouting ibis.

I primarily see these camping tactics affecting new players, which is where my concern is directed.
If you drive away new players because the first pvp they see is some
furiously annoying guy
camping, it affects the entire game.

My advice to you, pvp something that is worth killing, other wise you are just a bottom feeder.

You mad because people dont count you as a real pvper?


I can't speak for everyone here but, the reason why I wanted to continue with eve in the first place is because I was so ****ed at the first guy who killed me in low-sec that I wanted to LVL up and kick his butt.

BTW I did, I have his corpse in my hanger still. YARRRR!!Twisted Evil

If the noobs have issues, they know what the forums are and im sure they have keyboards.... Things tend to work themselves out bro!


Bugone
Posted - 2010.12.15 23:10:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Pricer Chekar
Your opinions are your opinions. But can we keep the leet speak and random comments to a minimum?


Chekar, your opinions are your opinions. But can we keep the leet speak and random comments to a minimum?


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