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Wiki Leaks
Posted - 2010.12.16 13:51:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
As to the contact folders:
I'll say it again: Something incredibly useful had to be removed from the game so a lot of useless stuff could be added.

We had to hack and slash. Such is life. You lose some, you lose more.
I guess that should tell me to go and get this fixed. But I'm CCP, we don't do that. Laughing

Steijn
Minmatar
Quay Industries
Posted - 2010.12.16 13:52:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
Edited by: CCP Prism X on 16/12/2010 13:47:18
Originally by: Steijn
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Those that had not earned anything have their free respec. You can chose to use it whenever you want but when you gain a new one through waiting it's not going to increment that numbers. You cannot hoard free respecs by design.


I disagree with this point, in my case you havent given me anything FREE, all you have done is move my remap date by around 20 days or so.


Yes, I understand your point and can appreciate that you want a free respec.
I'm not telling you the design is flawless, but the implementation is by design.

You respecced later than someone else, you do not get a respecc but he might.
You subscribed before someone else, you got the Echelon, he might not.
Not perfect, perhaps not just and I'll leave that up for philosophical debate but certainly gave everyone the possibility of respeccing now.


I think the biggest fault that you have with regards to this is once again, lack of confirmation/communication initially from CCP. Anyone in the same position as myself with only days/weeks to the expected remap, could have used that free remap yesterday and still expected to gain the expected 1. They are then stuck with the attributes they remapped to for a year.

I agree that implementing it to be fair isnt easy, but you could have explained it in far better detail before anyone had the chance to screw it up.

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2010.12.16 13:53:00 - [153]
 

Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 16/12/2010 13:53:49
ups

Staggerr
Broski North
Posted - 2010.12.16 13:54:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Steijn
I agree that implementing it to be fair isnt easy


Add one remap. Don't touch the timer if one is running.

How is that 'not easy'. Everybody would had been rewarded equally, but I'll assume Eve is coded so that they can't simply add a remap without disturbing the timer.

Hagbard23Celine
Liga Freier Terraner
Ev0ke
Posted - 2010.12.16 13:57:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Staggerr
Originally by: Steijn
I agree that implementing it to be fair isnt easy


Add one remap. Don't touch the timer if one is running.

How is that 'not easy'. Everybody would had been rewarded equally, but I'll assume Eve is coded so that they can't simply add a remap without disturbing the timer.


I fully agree with this, this would be the way how to give a "free" remap!

Wiki Leaks
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:02:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Hagbard23Celine
Originally by: Staggerr
Originally by: Steijn
I agree that implementing it to be fair isnt easy


Add one remap. Don't touch the timer if one is running.

How is that 'not easy'. Everybody would had been rewarded equally, but I'll assume Eve is coded so that they can't simply add a remap without disturbing the timer.


I fully agree with this, this would be the way how to give a "free" remap!


And that's why you will never work for CCP.

Imagine how the console kiddies are gonna feel with Dust514, and they try to reload their guns....
Anybody reloading with 1 or more bullets left are gonna feel robbed when they get nothing but cannot reload again for a year, while all their buddies who ran their clips dry get a fresh magazine to empty skywards...

Commander Phoenix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:03:00 - [157]
 

Edited by: Commander Phoenix on 16/12/2010 14:06:40

Just wondering with what has been said. How this is possible?

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

to point out. This character has done remaps in the past but still has 3 remaps available?

RAW23
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:03:00 - [158]
 

Edited by: RAW23 on 16/12/2010 14:03:57
Originally by: Hagbard23Celine
*****


Nice name!

Fnord.

Shpenat
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:06:00 - [159]
 

I would like to thank CCP Spitfire and CCP Prism X for mechanics clarification.

I will try to rewrite it here with little explanation why did it happen this way (as i understand it from their posts). The mechanics works this way:
1) each time you use a remap the 1 year counter is started/reseted.
2) when the counter reach zero time it checks the amount of your remaps available
3) if the remaining amount reads 0 it adds +1. if it reads anything else, it does nothing.

This way you can start with any number of remaps, but will never get more than 1 after a year of waiting.

Now the idea was to give each character a possibility to remap after the learning skills were removed. But the programmers were given only very short time to implement it.

the easiest way to do it is to add +1 to the current remap counter. This way no remap mechanics will be broken and the intensive testing of the change will not be needed.

As the result the people who remapped shortly before the change was applied get a new remap, however people who had just few hours left get nothing (few hours bonus). Is it fair? Well .... not really. But it is much better than accidentally breaking something and then have to hunt the bug for several days and deal with more whinig about it.

Keira Matrix
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:07:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
Not perfect, perhaps not just and I'll leave that up for philosophical debate but certainly gave everyone the possibility of respeccing now.


Very true, and more than what a lot of us was expecting. I for one saw no reason in the first place to hand out a remap. So it was a bonus, maybe not an equal bonus but a bonus anyway.

Commander Phoenix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:08:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Keira Matrix
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Not perfect, perhaps not just and I'll leave that up for philosophical debate but certainly gave everyone the possibility of respeccing now.


Very true, and more than what a lot of us was expecting. I for one saw no reason in the first place to hand out a remap. So it was a bonus, maybe not an equal bonus but a bonus anyway.


I agree :)

Claire Voyant
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:16:00 - [162]
 

Quoting myself from a thread in the Skill Discussion forum:

So in summary:
1) Never remapped -> 3 available
2) Remapped more than a year ago ->2 available
3) Remapped within a year before 15 Dec 2010 -> 1 available
4) Remapped between 15 and 16 Dec 2010 DTs ->2 available


Captain Mastiff
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:16:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 14:19:00
This is rather unfair.

For both my accounts I had remaps coming up in the next one - two months. Long awaited remaps, however due to this silly little "free gift" which on balance is not balanced at all.

For anyone who had their remap timer complete before the 15th and didn't spend it now has 2 remaps, for anyone who waited 11 months and was on the final stretch of their remap phase now only has one remap and can only use that once and has to wait an entire year for another. A very poorly implemented system and very annoying that CCP didn't think about this.

How hard can it be to just give everyone who was due a remap in a month or two month another remap then? Rather than allowing people to stack up 2/3 remaps.

Why has CCP even given a free remap out? Yet alone made it unfair on half* population of Eve.


* Figure pulled out of my ass

Commander Phoenix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:28:00 - [164]
 

Edited by: Commander Phoenix on 16/12/2010 14:29:29
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Quoting myself from a thread in the Skill Discussion forum:

So in summary:
1) Never remapped -> 3 available
2) Remapped more than a year ago ->2 available
3) Remapped within a year before 15 Dec 2010 -> 1 available
4) Remapped between 15 and 16 Dec 2010 DTs ->2 available




incorrect. see my second but last post up a few posts with the image.

Linda Flamewalker
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:31:00 - [165]
 

*sighs*

so if this had been released 2 months later i could do what i first planned when i saw the respec. do a quick respec to charisma and max out my PI skills and then go back to my normal training (since i am getting my respec in early february and would then have 2) as it is now.. i get a stick in the eye basically.. Thanks ccp. i can respec earlier.. oh wait.. that is pointless for me since i wasnt planning on changing my respec for quite some time.. Gotcha.... dont call it free when it is anything but.. and no i dont care how the game handles it, i care about how we as humans see the word "free" and you should have realised people would get.. rightly so.. upset.i know HTFU and all those cool slogans that make really bad marketing in the end for anything but the hardcore crowd that wouldnt leave for anything anyway.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:34:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Captain Mastiff
This is rather unfair. *snip*

It is, now dust yourself off and keep on doing whatever you where doing.

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:34:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Shpenat


But the programmers were given only very short time to implement it.




But wasn't that the purpose of the delayed release? To ensure that a quality product was released?

KB

Claire Voyant
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:37:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Commander Phoenix
incorrect. see my second but last post up a few posts with the image.

I see it now. Do you have any more information you can supply?
When was the last remap?
What did it look like before Dec 15 DT?
What did it look like after Dec 15 DT?
When was that screenshot taken?
How old is the character?
Are you sure that that character has remapped in the past? (given that it is remapped for drones, I'm thinking you would remember that decision, but I'll ask anyway.)

Captain Mastiff
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:37:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
*sighs*



I agree, if I had remapped 13 months ago I wouldn't be in this problem and in fact I would be able to remap to max out Charisma skills to then remap back to my next year plan. However since I was a month off a remap timer completing on one of my accounts I am now just left with 1 remap that once used takes another year to do.

It really isn't balanced and has given a large portion of Eve the benefit of remapping for a month for a few large skills and then back to whatever else they want.

So poorly done, hopefully CCP will find the need to address this sooner rather than later. Not only have they removed one of the only "diverse" things about skill training to differentiate you from the person who didn't train his learning skills they've gone and given a bunch of people the opportunity to max the crap out of a skill set in a month and change to another remap.

I would like to see a fix to make this fairer on the rest of Eve who did have a remap timer completing whether it be 11 months and 29 days away or not it would only be fair to allow them to have a 2nd remap point on the anniversary date.

Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:37:00 - [170]
 

Thanks for the explanation CCP.

I am one of those that had a remap coming up soonish, but I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. So thanks for the patch and the explanation wrt to remap.

To the rest of you, HTFU.

Mia Restolo
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:42:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Commander Phoenix
Edited by: Commander Phoenix on 16/12/2010 14:06:40

Just wondering with what has been said. How this is possible?

*Removed image, see up a few posts*

to point out. This character has done remaps in the past but still has 3 remaps available?


Originally by: Claire Voyant
Quoting myself from a thread in the Skill Discussion forum:

So in summary:
1) Never remapped -> 3 available
2) Remapped more than a year ago ->2 available
3) Remapped within a year before 15 Dec 2010 -> 1 available
4) Remapped between 15 and 16 Dec 2010 DTs ->2 available




2A) Remapped more than a year ago but still had one left over from character created after remaps introduced -> 3 available

I have one alt with min/maxed stats and 3 remaps.

The "add remap" code obviously worked as intended when remaps were introduced and no one had any, resulting in a +1. Using the same code again to give a "bonus" remap didn't quite work the same, especially with timers running.

Captain Mastiff
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:43:00 - [172]
 

Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 14:50:12
Originally by: Riedle
Thanks for the explanation CCP.

I am one of those that had a remap coming up soonish, but I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. So thanks for the patch and the explanation wrt to remap.

To the rest of you, HTFU.


Ah well, I am one of those who are concerned why I receive a pair of socks for Christmas as a "gift" where as a large portion of Eve received a pair of socks and boxer shorts.

Can't deal with people complaining, HTFU

I would of quite liked training for Leadership based skills using the free remap but finding out my anniversary date is now wiped renders that all completely ****ing useless now. So once again thanks CCP for giving a gift which unbalances it for a bunch of people.

Scramilton
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:51:00 - [173]
 


Can't deal with people complaining, HTFU


It's called criticism of a broken system. We care about the game and want to make it better.

heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:51:00 - [174]
 

Seems alot of people are having problems understanding the explanaiton.

Staggerr
Broski North
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:52:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: heheheh
Seems alot of people are having problems understanding the explanaiton.


Yeah nobody explained how some people got 2 free remaps yet (lot of people with the timer running out soon, did).

Choujinburi
Gallente
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:55:00 - [176]
 

Haha wow, this is brilliant.

"WAHHH YOU DIDNT GIVE ME ANYTHING FREE YOU ONLY MOVED MY REMAP DATE"

Get over yourself, EVE isn't fair, shut up and be grateful for what you got you little turds.

Captain Mastiff
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:58:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 15:00:58
Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 14:59:59
Originally by: Choujinburi
Haha wow, this is brilliant.

"WAHHH YOU DIDNT GIVE ME ANYTHING FREE YOU ONLY MOVED MY REMAP DATE"

Get over yourself, EVE isn't fair, shut up and be grateful for what you got you little turds.


Lol...

Wait you didn't really give me anything free but you gave a lot of other people the ability to stack remaps again. Now they optimise for a short time and revert back to what they want.

I think it's something reasonable to WAHHHHH about.

Originally by: Staggerr
Originally by: heheheh
Seems alot of people are having problems understanding the explanaiton.


Yeah nobody explained how some people got 2 free remaps yet (lot of people with the timer running out soon, did).


Not sure if its a troll or not but...

Remap anniversary before 15th of december in which you didn't spend that 1 remap point - You now have 2 remaps available.

Remap anniversary after 15th of december - You now have 1 remap and no remap anniversary until you use that remap.

Never used a remap - 3 remaps available (2 on a brand new account)

So those who had remaps afterwards are significantly shafted as everyone else has received a massive bonus of being able to remap twice or more. You (I) can only remap once and have to wait the year cycle as our remap anniversaries mean nothing until we have 0 remaps available.

For the case where some people claim to have got more remaps than they should have, could be a number of things... i.e they had one already, had an anniversary expiring just before. Or they really did get more remaps and CCP screwed up once again.

Karia Sur
Posted - 2010.12.16 15:06:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Choujinburi
Haha wow, this is brilliant.

"WAHHH YOU DIDNT GIVE ME ANYTHING FREE YOU ONLY MOVED MY REMAP DATE"

Get over yourself, EVE isn't fair, shut up and be grateful for what you got you little turds.


id rather be a little one than like yourself.

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.12.16 15:07:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Captain Mastiff
Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 14:50:12
Originally by: Riedle
Thanks for the explanation CCP.

I am one of those that had a remap coming up soonish, but I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. So thanks for the patch and the explanation wrt to remap.

To the rest of you, HTFU.


Ah well, I am one of those who are concerned why I receive a pair of socks for Christmas as a "gift" where as a large portion of Eve received a pair of socks and boxer shorts.

Can't deal with people complaining, HTFU

I would of quite liked training for Leadership based skills using the free remap but finding out my anniversary date is now wiped renders that all completely ****ing useless now. So once again thanks CCP for giving a gift which unbalances it for a bunch of people.


So if they gave NO gift, you'd have been happier? Is it a case of "If I can't have it then noone should" bawbaw etc. lots of things in EVE have been and continue to be unfair, it's the way of EVE. How **** would this game suddenly be if CCP said "Right, we're fed up of moaning everytime we try do something for people, so from now on we wont give anything away, no ships no maps no nothing ever again because if it's not 100% fair to 100% of the people there's always someone complaining, it's much safer to just never do anything good."

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2010.12.16 15:10:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Captain Mastiff
Ah well, I am one of those who are concerned why I receive a pair of socks for Christmas as a "gift" where as a large portion of Eve received a pair of socks and boxer shorts.


You know, considering that in this metaphorical Christmas 'socks' means 'between 0 and 5.4 million skillpoints, a free ship as well as potentially some attribute points', i think you're coming across as a bit needy

also, assuming you had a metaphorical mother in this metaphorical christmas, she'd be non-metaphorically telling you to be happy with the gifts you got rather than angry about the ones you didn't. Then everyone would drink hot cocoa and understand the true meaning of Christmas.


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