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Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.12.16 18:00:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
The Pink Bunny Test is the last, best hope for banning macros, here is how it works:

1) Allow GMs to turn off mining modules (and only mining modules)
2) Allow GMs to minimize all active windows.
3) Allow GMs to spawn a Pink Bunny over the module buttons.
4) Allow GMs to open a chat box irrespective of client restrictions directly above the modules
5) If the player reactivates their modules then bot, otherwise enjoy the funny conversation which will follow.


6. Bot program, seeing something on the screen it cannot handle, brings the offending screen to the front and sounds an alarm so the bot manager can deal with it.

This would stop simple "timed" macros, the more basic bots, and the bots run afk (but even those could just simulate a DC, leaving suspicion, but no proof). But the actively managed bot farms (30+ per person, person always there to handle issues) will keep right on grinding.

Now if we could have a webcam looking at the keyboard....


The difference here is that the Macro doesn't have to handle ANYTHING, but a player would react.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.12.16 18:03:00 - [242]
 

Originally by: Arithron
It was a pleasent change to see (for the first time- never read it confirmed by CCP before) that Market bots are acknowledged. These buggers are the ones that really hurt the game and stop any sort of 'open-sandbox free economy'. Some of the earlier bots were easy to spot )and indeed fool quickly into making their owners large losses. However, they have got better and now are harder to detect. However, they must be accessing live API (?) or something also, as they are actived across multiple commodities at any one time. Why have live API...delayed is surely safer and as usable...???



What market bots are you talking about? I personally play games by listing 2-3 orders of the same good, and penny everytime someone pennies me. Or do you mean something else?

AG

Arithron
Gallente
Gallente Trade Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.16 19:19:00 - [243]
 

These are the bots that buy a commodity and resell at 0.01 isk below top sell within 5 seconds of the sale and then match other players (or bots!) till product sells...across multiple products, so watching for 12 hrs straight and dropping 0.01 isk to match competitors vwery difficult (I have teamed up to find and watch such activity on some known bot characters). Behaviour is getting better at mimicing human players...so they obviously feel detectable...

Also, drop the skill that allows one to post a large buy order (margin trading) without the isk to back it up is used often by bots...(but a few canny marketeers use it also!). Personally, I can't see the point of it tbh.

Arithron

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.12.16 19:58:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Bhattran on 16/12/2010 20:02:18
Originally by: Arithron
These are the bots that buy a commodity and resell at 0.01 isk below top sell within 5 seconds of the sale and then match other players (or bots!) till product sells...across multiple products, so watching for 12 hrs straight and dropping 0.01 isk to match competitors vwery difficult (I have teamed up to find and watch such activity on some known bot characters). Behaviour is getting better at mimicing human players...so they obviously feel detectable...

Also, drop the skill that allows one to post a large buy order (margin trading) without the isk to back it up is used often by bots...(but a few canny marketeers use it also!). Personally, I can't see the point of it tbh.

Arithron



It's a trap to see how greedy and superior some people think they are to others. If you think the sell order for x at blank above their 'real' value when those are the only significant quantities available anywhere isn't a trap for the buy order with a minimum of Y units of X or somewhere very near the number of X units for sale at the outrageous price.

The real reason is you can try to buy more than you can 'afford' at the moment as you can't/don't realistically get your orders filled unless you overpay which you wouldn't do on a buy order 99% of the time. As part of that you could have things up for sale so while your order is being filled your cash replenishes or you make more isk other ways, contracts, missions etc, the buy orders you can't afford allow you to utilize isk in more lucrative ways than being denied your isk without getting the item.

TLDR: I've never been a victim of this scam and I've never done it to anyone but I like that it exists.

EDITED to add:

This blog stinks and the numerous ideas/suggestions put forward by members show that CCP hasn't spent much if any time fighting botting but rather 'react' to RMT bot accounts. Instead of trying to make the botters jobs harder by changing how the client works/accepts data etc they simply ban accounts if they manage to figure out they are a bot, at least according to them, but probably they only do that if RMT can be traced back to the account.

gfldex
Posted - 2010.12.17 00:39:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
What market bots are you talking about?


Those maybe?

gfldex
Posted - 2010.12.17 00:42:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Arithron
contacting him covertly via MSN posing as a customer, enact a transaction and await the character trading within game. Once this info is known, other accounts etc linked can be banned.


That wouldn't work in germany. In fact, call the police or leave them alone.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2010.12.17 00:54:00 - [247]
 

You can got to google video search and look for "eve ratting bot" to see those in action too.

lateralvelocity
Posted - 2010.12.17 03:30:00 - [248]
 

I am glad to see a response. I have personally reported and seen macroers banned. And I believe it is best to be very sure it is a macro before you drop the ban hammer, that isn't easy, in some cases.

The key is getting them reported even if they happen to be in your own alliance or an allies.

I expect some attention in the Insmother, scalding pass etherium reach area may be fruitfullLaughing. Its an uphill battle but every banned account helps.

Manfred Sideous
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.12.17 06:18:00 - [249]
 

Let me play this all out for you.

1) I drop my hiroshima on kugu

2) I sit back and flex

3) Events unfold like this devblog.

4) The inevitable happens next.

5) CCP is forced into dealing with it.


Now for the peak behind the scenes. Does anyone recall what got the AOE DD removed from the game? There was a single event that was tipping point in CCP's mind. That event was the mass DDing in 49-U. Where PL/Goon/NC displayed how overpowered the mechanic was and to what lengths they were willing to go to prove it.


Well I have seeded such an event as well. There are literally untold amounts of players now acquiring macros and bots. It has been illustrated to them how easy it is and CCP lack of commitment to stop it thus far empowers the player to go forth.


As a capitalistic business CCP is only concerned with a quality product in so much as what maximizes profitability. So therefore there expenditures on quality and control will always stay within the bounds of forecasted effort for profits. In order to reach the result in which I feel most desire we must push things to a tipping point. At which point there hand is forced.


Dear CCP Im controlling your game and Ive just set the stage for 5 moves ahead.


PS checkmate


♥ Manny

Sister Hypatia
Posted - 2010.12.17 07:37:00 - [250]
 

It's a shame what bot topics die without creating a threadnought. No one really cares? If so, the CCP can still do nothing and you Manny fail.


Also - there is no bot in this system - just hunting without a pause

Zomg Panties
Posted - 2010.12.17 08:53:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: Othran
Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 08:54:42
Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Datcorinna Erunde
For your convenience the great Wollari even colored the shown systems accordingly to the amount of the occured kills. He colored it from white (like "almost nothing") via green, yellow, orange up to a fine, perfect visible shiny red (like "unusually high occurance of NPC kills in this very system OMG OMG!!!!!!11111" or, more fitting "look here CCP, here are the bots!").


Third party tools to the rescue...again.




Indeed. Heres what 15 minutes effort shows.....

Time to name and shame - these are the 15 most blatant botting systems in the game and if CCP can't deal with it then its time to pack up and find another game :

8OYE-Z : Cache (SOLAR WING)
Y-OMTZ : Delve (IT Alliance)
G2-INZ : Esoteria (Stainless)
HHQ-M1 : Esoteria (Stainless)
ROJ-B0 : Insmother (RED Citizens)
VBPT-T : Insmother (RED Citizens)
Y-770C : Oasa (Legion of xXDEATHXx)
RO-AIQ : Oasa (Shadow of xXDEATHXx)
G-B3PR : Omist (White Angels)
UC-8XF : Outer Passage (Shadow of xXDEATHXx)
F-HQWV : Perrigen Falls (SOLAR FLEET)
W-IIYI : Querious (IT Alliance)
WIW-X8 : The Spire (SOLAR FLEET)
HM-UVD : Stain (AAA/AAA Citizens)
4F89-U : Wicked Creek (The Jagged Alliance)

Oh and as an observation - looks like some alliances got told to stop botting for a while about 24 hours ago. Its very very clear when you look at the dotlan maps - pretty much all ratting activity ceased in certain eastern regions at exactly the same time.


I laugh at how NC calls out there enemies because they failed to take southern territories.

based on your lack of blatant proof/evidence and you're ignorance is unbelievable....
Like do you even have any viable proof to pull thesesystems out of your mouth, or did you pull it out of your ass because you feel you have to compensate for something? who the hell knows

what a complete joke lol

Abinadi9
NerdHerd
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.12.17 09:07:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: Othran
Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 08:54:42
Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Datcorinna Erunde
For your convenience the great Wollari even colored the shown systems accordingly to the amount of the occured kills. He colored it from white (like "almost nothing") via green, yellow, orange up to a fine, perfect visible shiny red (like "unusually high occurance of NPC kills in this very system OMG OMG!!!!!!11111" or, more fitting "look here CCP, here are the bots!").


Third party tools to the rescue...again.




Indeed. Heres what 15 minutes effort shows.....

Time to name and shame - these are the 15 most blatant botting systems in the game and if CCP can't deal with it then its time to pack up and find another game :

8OYE-Z : Cache (SOLAR WING)
Y-OMTZ : Delve (IT Alliance)
G2-INZ : Esoteria (Stainless)
HHQ-M1 : Esoteria (Stainless)
ROJ-B0 : Insmother (RED Citizens)
VBPT-T : Insmother (RED Citizens)
Y-770C : Oasa (Legion of xXDEATHXx)
RO-AIQ : Oasa (Shadow of xXDEATHXx)
G-B3PR : Omist (White Angels)
UC-8XF : Outer Passage (Shadow of xXDEATHXx)
F-HQWV : Perrigen Falls (SOLAR FLEET)
W-IIYI : Querious (IT Alliance)
WIW-X8 : The Spire (SOLAR FLEET)
HM-UVD : Stain (AAA/AAA Citizens)
4F89-U : Wicked Creek (The Jagged Alliance)

Oh and as an observation - looks like some alliances got told to stop botting for a while about 24 hours ago. Its very very clear when you look at the dotlan maps - pretty much all ratting activity ceased in certain eastern regions at exactly the same time.


Othran,

Why don't you actually post from a main and not hide behind your alt. Looks like you don't want to list any systems from NC...

K-6SNI Morsus
W-UQA5 Morsus
XF-PWO Rage
IR-DYY Rage
RVCZ-C Rage
05R-7A Majesta
S6QX-N OWN
3-QYVE Razor
SV-K8J Razor
8MG-J6 Brick Squad

So while these are 10 systems in the NC, when you have a bunch of people running the anomalies, it's not that hard to have it show up on a map in relatively unused and undeveloped space. This is by far, NOT PROOF, that anyone from NC/IT/AAA/WN/RA/SW/XIX or at the very least TJA is cheating. Anyone from CCP can contact The Jagged Alliance and look at if we're macro ratting, we invite it. So keyboard general, next time - man up - and post on your main.

Abinadi9
The Jagged Alliance Diplomat

ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.12.17 10:14:00 - [253]
 

From Dev Blog
Quote:
PLEX is available on our website in handy packages of various sizes and once redeemed it can be traded for ISK on a fluid player driven in-game market.


"You can have any amount of plex you want, as long as its in multiple of 2" is what should have been saidWink

GTCS, -60 day ones, can bought in any number you want. But plex however can only be acquired via a 60 day gtc. Which converts into 2 plex.

If CCP wants to compete with the RMTers they need to give a cheaper option. RMT isk is available at a lower price, and while CCP cant control the in game market (and therefore the $ to isk ratio) they can control the minimum amout of $$ a person needs to spend to get isk (plex being the middleman).

CCP why dont you either A:) have an option to buy 1 plex at a time, or B) resume selling 30d gtcs?

Stratego
Ad Infernum
Posted - 2010.12.17 13:31:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: Abinadi9
Originally by: Othran
Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 08:54:42
Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Datcorinna Erunde
For your convenience the great Wollari even colored the shown systems accordingly to the amount of the occured kills. He colored it from white (like "almost nothing") via green, yellow, orange up to a fine, perfect visible shiny red (like "unusually high occurance of NPC kills in this very system OMG OMG!!!!!!11111" or, more fitting "look here CCP, here are the bots!").


Third party tools to the rescue...again.




Indeed. Heres what 15 minutes effort shows.....

Time to name and shame - these are the 15 most blatant botting systems in the game and if CCP can't deal with it then its time to pack up and find another game :

STUFF

Oh and as an observation - looks like some alliances got told to stop botting for a while about 24 hours ago. Its very very clear when you look at the dotlan maps - pretty much all ratting activity ceased in certain eastern regions at exactly the same time.


Othran,

Why don't you actually post from a main and not hide behind your alt. Looks like you don't want to list any systems from NC...

STUFF

So while these are 10 systems in the NC, when you have a bunch of people running the anomalies, it's not that hard to have it show up on a map in relatively unused and undeveloped space. This is by far, NOT PROOF, that anyone from NC/IT/AAA/WN/RA/SW/XIX or at the very least TJA is cheating. Anyone from CCP can contact The Jagged Alliance and look at if we're macro ratting, we invite it. So keyboard general, next time - man up - and post on your main.

Abinadi9
The Jagged Alliance Diplomat


I find it interesting that almost noone seems to be capable of reading...

Originally by: Othran
Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 15:24:59
Originally by: Soma Khan
nc alt detected. indeed


Nice try but no. Last alliance I was in was BDEAL, didn't suit me, left 5 months ago. I don't do PVE at all, took me a while to realise that PVE was the entire point of sov 0.0 - and it is Wink

I can pick out systems up North that are just as suspicious - its just that these 15 are ones where there's little to no argument to be had about occupancy levels being the reason. That's the reason for these.

Oh and its worth noting that Dotlan goes back a LOT further than 48 hours......


So yeah, i looked at the same values, the easiest to spot system without a doubt, but if you guys want to NerdRage about this sure go on ahead. :) CAOD is this way btw...

gfldex
Posted - 2010.12.17 13:51:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Manfred Sideous
As a capitalistic business CCP is only concerned with a quality product in so much as what maximizes profitability. So therefore there expenditures on quality and control will always stay within the bounds of forecasted effort for profits.


I doubt that's the reason why they act as horrible as they tend to do. But it's for sure a nice excuse they can use to justify their actions. There are plenty of such excuses for their choosing. So I doubt it not for being a reason but for being a less strong excuse then the following:

"EVE is just not everybodies game."

"We are creating an online world, not a computer game." (Notice the nice contradiction that indicates cognitive dissonance.

"With a single sharded game you can't replicate WoWs success."

"There used to be only 5000 players on the server!" (Read: we started really really low and didn't improve much.)

"Our subscriber base is constantly growing!" (How many of them are bots and/or alts? How the _player_ base looks like (and feels) would be the proper question.)

Remember, cognitive dissonance is the most powerfull force on this planet. (Hi Obama! We are still waiting for that change!)

Lili Lu
Posted - 2010.12.17 23:00:00 - [256]
 

Edited by: Lili Lu on 17/12/2010 23:02:28
Originally by: gfldex
Remember, cognitive dissonance is the most powerfull force on this planet. (Hi Obama! We are still waiting for that change!)


First part of that statment fair enough hyperbole. Second part is your opinion on entirely urelated matter, and in no way an example of anything.

Find a politics thread on some other forum and jerk yourself silly on it. Smile

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2010.12.18 00:17:00 - [257]
 

I looked at a few of those high kill systems and I noticed that not only did they have alot of kills, they also had alot of jumps.

I also remember hearing that once a system is suitably upgraded, it has an unending supply of anomalies to run. Which means that system becomes magnet for ratters.

So just looking at the plots, I find several possibilities:

1 There are a pile of bots in there, killing and hauling loot.
2 The bots are killing, but players come in to do the hauling.
3 Players, knowing its a good system to rat in, fly there, run a few anomalies, then go home.
4 Some mixture of all of the above.

So just looking at Dotlan I cannot conclude its bots, there is another possibility. But CCP has more complete logs, they should have a much better idea.

Konoch
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.12.18 15:29:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: Abinadi9


Othran,

Why don't you actually post from a main and not hide behind your alt. Looks like you don't want to list any systems from NC...

K-6SNI Morsus
W-UQA5 Morsus
XF-PWO Rage
IR-DYY Rage
RVCZ-C Rage
05R-7A Majesta
S6QX-N OWN
3-QYVE Razor
SV-K8J Razor
8MG-J6 Brick Squad

So while these are 10 systems in the NC, when you have a bunch of people running the anomalies, it's not that hard to have it show up on a map in relatively unused and undeveloped space. This is by far, NOT PROOF, that anyone from NC/IT/AAA/WN/RA/SW/XIX or at the very least TJA is cheating. Anyone from CCP can contact The Jagged Alliance and look at if we're macro ratting, we invite it. So keyboard general, next time - man up - and post on your main.

Abinadi9
The Jagged Alliance Diplomat


I understand the tone of this post because i'm in one of those systems on a rather often basis for just that purpose. I can't say for the non RAGE systems however i am more than willing to provide proof of a Non-Bot presence in all three of the RAGE systems mentioned here should such proof be necessary. Actually the story behind one is a nice tale. If CCP wants to lurk and watch that's fine with us. We're just isking up for the next big thing.

gfldex
Posted - 2010.12.18 15:47:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Lili Lu

Find a politics thread on some other forum and jerk yourself silly on it. Smile


You mean psychology thread. Well, politics is framed by psychology more then any other profession ofc.

Meridian Siri
Posted - 2010.12.18 21:05:00 - [260]
 

Yup, pretty much a non-response from CCP. Let's face it, we can whine all we want about this issue, but unless the player base starts to vote with their feet, CCP will not act. With any luck CSM can beat some sense into them, but I am unclear on how much CCP pays attention to them (or the players for that matter).

On the bright side; even if a ton of players leave the game, total numbers on TQ should remain stable due to the amount of bots running ugh

Abinadi9
NerdHerd
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.12.18 22:07:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: Konoch
Originally by: Abinadi9


Othran,

Why don't you actually post from a main and not hide behind your alt. Looks like you don't want to list any systems from NC...

K-6SNI Morsus
W-UQA5 Morsus
XF-PWO Rage
IR-DYY Rage
RVCZ-C Rage
05R-7A Majesta
S6QX-N OWN
3-QYVE Razor
SV-K8J Razor
8MG-J6 Brick Squad

So while these are 10 systems in the NC, when you have a bunch of people running the anomalies, it's not that hard to have it show up on a map in relatively unused and undeveloped space. This is by far, NOT PROOF, that anyone from NC/IT/AAA/WN/RA/SW/XIX or at the very least TJA is cheating. Anyone from CCP can contact The Jagged Alliance and look at if we're macro ratting, we invite it. So keyboard general, next time - man up - and post on your main.

Abinadi9
The Jagged Alliance Diplomat


I understand the tone of this post because i'm in one of those systems on a rather often basis for just that purpose. I can't say for the non RAGE systems however i am more than willing to provide proof of a Non-Bot presence in all three of the RAGE systems mentioned here should such proof be necessary. Actually the story behind one is a nice tale. If CCP wants to lurk and watch that's fine with us. We're just isking up for the next big thing.


Konoch,

What I was trying to point out is that it's a blatant attempt by someone with an NC bias to point out "cheaters". I was just highlighting the fact that there are plenty of high volume NPC kills in systems around Eve Universe where people do not cheat.

Abinadi9

captain foivos
Posted - 2010.12.19 03:18:00 - [262]
 

"We're doing stuff. Against RMTing. RMTing is bad. Buy plex instead. Yay. We'll do stuff. We promise. Look at x number of accounts we banned last week."

What a load of cookamamy BS.

Brutus B
Posted - 2010.12.19 05:03:00 - [263]
 

CCP should consider Pew-Pewing the bots; let me preface that I'm not completely certain about the legality of this issue, or the programming feasibility of this since I'm niether a lawyer, or a programer.

My idea is simple: most programs have a user-agreement where the person using the program releases the developer from liability if harm befalls the hardware and software due to interference or other adverse reactions.

What the eve-client needs is its own bot-defence system that would treat bot-programs as viruses and or spyware, communicate that to the OS, and force those programs to shut down. This system would require somekind of script that would be able to ID said-bots, and you'd need to develop a libary of the biggest offenders, not user-by-user, ip-by-ip but program by program.

I don't think anyone develops programs to shutdown, disable, or delete other programs except Anti-virus companies, and Malicious Software coders.

But it seems like if a company wanted to remove a cheating system from a gaming service they could take very serious actions to make their software agressively incompatiable with such botting programs by implanting a "spyware" that looks for and eliminates offending processes in the same way that a online casino would have a right to defend its systems/services from cheaters.

If for some legal reason you can't eliminate bot-programs. There is a second solution when those programs are detected: KILL THE CLIENT!

To prevent bypassing this sub-system, CCP could intergrate it into the client/server relationship in such a way that the client self-destructs if the subsystem is removed/offlined/manipulated to such a degree that a server-check identifies the client as invalid. Such a check would force a disconnect from server, then all attempts to reconnect to server would be denied until the client was repaired.

I don't really see how it can be against the law for them to make the Client alergic to known bots in this way. The legal justification seems to be protection of CCP servers and IP since the cleint and server have a interwoven relationship that must be maintained for both to work properly, and since 3rd party malicious programs used for "botting" eve could appear to be interfering with licensed (intended) use by the subscriber.

One thing is pretty clear: if CCP is extrememly serious about putting a dent in RMT--they cannot ignore botting programs because RMT'ers are just as willing to sell these programs they use to farm isk, as they are isk they gain from hacking people's accounts. It doesn't take more than one google search to find these programs for sale.

I think the only real issue in doing this would be that it would make the client unstable in such a way that would make it vunerable to exploitation if corrupting the cleint was the intended goal, and not a side effect of using bots! So, this feature would deifnitely need a built-in quick repair that could be deployed as son as a machine was compliant, as well as easy-removal program that the user could initiate to bring the machine into compliance.

TLDR: CCP needs it's own "spybot search and destroy" componet. And they could call it something catchy like "EVE-BOT PEST CONTROL."


captain foivos
Posted - 2010.12.19 05:51:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: Brutus B
Make EVE have Warden.


Go. Back. To. WoW.


There are many solutions that are far, far better than putting that kind of crap on everyone's computer.

Shea Amara
Amarr
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2010.12.20 00:21:00 - [265]
 

I am against RMT and Boting. But I am not against Macro's. I know that kind of sound funny. But I'm here I play and I do use Macro's to play. I am just trying to save myself from my 3rd carpoltunnel surgery.ugh

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.20 13:59:00 - [266]
 

Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 20/12/2010 13:59:39
Originally by: captain foivos
Originally by: Brutus B
Make EVE have Warden.


Go. Back. To. WoW.


There are many solutions that are far, far better than putting that kind of crap on everyone's computer.


I am sick of the cheating and a tool like Warden would be a step forwardein stopping the cheating in this game

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2010.12.20 16:33:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: Brutus B

TLDR: CCP needs it's own "spybot search and destroy" componet. And they could call it something catchy like "EVE-BOT PEST CONTROL."




The problem is the search part. The botters can run an unmodified client in a sandbox, with the bot outside the sandbox where the client had absolutely no way to detect it, nor can the client tell its in a sandbox. Or the botters replace the client entirely with a bot, and program that bot to give whatever reports to the server that will keep the server happy.

Te absolute biggest issue for CCP is not what to do once a bot is found, but finding them and proving that it is indeed a bot.

d4shing
Posted - 2010.12.22 07:04:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena
Originally by: Brutus B

TLDR: CCP needs it's own "spybot search and destroy" componet. And they could call it something catchy like "EVE-BOT PEST CONTROL."




The problem is the search part. The botters can run an unmodified client in a sandbox, with the bot outside the sandbox where the client had absolutely no way to detect it, nor can the client tell its in a sandbox. Or the botters replace the client entirely with a bot, and program that bot to give whatever reports to the server that will keep the server happy.

Te absolute biggest issue for CCP is not what to do once a bot is found, but finding them and proving that it is indeed a bot.


No.

The absolute biggest issue is that so much of their game is so boring, repetitive, and undemanding of intellect that people pay to avoid it.

Secondarily, they make it technically relatively easy to bot.

Tertiarily, they make no effort to police any but the most egregious and stupid violators.

I refuse to believe that 5 guys with the ability to run queries, gather data, and change client code couldn't shut down a large majority of bots relatively quickly. CCP either doesn't care to commit the resources or has a bunch of idiots doing such a laughable job of it that for all intents and purposes it is not being done at all.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2010.12.23 21:33:00 - [269]
 

Some people think that making the game more complex will defeat the bots. But consider;

Bots can drive a rover on Mars, over complex, unknown terrain.
Bots made by Google can drive a car in traffic.
A bot is world chess champion.
Bots are used in EVE for PVP.

How complex would a game have to be for it to be un-bottable? Would it still be playable by a human? Would it still be fun to play? I doubt it.

Eve could be modified to hamper the simplest bots, those that just repeat a set of keystrokes to a timer. But that would just drive the bot users to the more complex bots, the ones that can be programmed, use artificial intelligence, and think for themselves. The ones currently ratting trillions of isk in 0.0.

No, CCP's biggest problem is how to find the bot user, not the bot. It would not matter how easy or hard the game is to bot, if every time a bot came on line, seconds later the bot user's account was banned.

StuRyan
Posted - 2010.12.24 09:57:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena
Some people think that making the game more complex will defeat the bots. But consider;

Bots can drive a rover on Mars, over complex, unknown terrain.
Bots made by Google can drive a car in traffic.
A bot is world chess champion.
Bots are used in EVE for PVP.

How complex would a game have to be for it to be un-bottable? Would it still be playable by a human? Would it still be fun to play? I doubt it.

Eve could be modified to hamper the simplest bots, those that just repeat a set of keystrokes to a timer. But that would just drive the bot users to the more complex bots, the ones that can be programmed, use artificial intelligence, and think for themselves. The ones currently ratting trillions of isk in 0.0.

No, CCP's biggest problem is how to find the bot user, not the bot. It would not matter how easy or hard the game is to bot, if every time a bot came on line, seconds later the bot user's account was banned.


I have bolded the one point i took from this conversation. Doesn't Dotlan show this information? Infact doesnt the ingame map sgo part way to show this information?


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