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Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.12.13 21:31:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Max Kolonko
BTW: Mynxee or any other of the fine folks at the CSM group - when exactly is the summit held (someone mentioned this week, but more precisely?), and when do You expect first information on how it went to be published? (meeting minutes or full report)



I think some are already on route, and some departing to Reykjavik tomorrow. So should start the day after that?
Could be wrong though. Am blond.

Curious about the minutes and reports as well. I hope the holidays don't get in the way.



Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.12.13 21:37:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Mynxee on 13/12/2010 21:37:53
Originally by: Max Kolonko
BTW: Mynxee or any other of the fine folks at the CSM group - when exactly is the summit held (someone mentioned this week, but more precisely?), and when do You expect first information on how it went to be published? (meeting minutes or full report)



The Summit meetings are scheduled on Weds, Thurs, Fri. Trebor posted the planned session topics here. The economy / RMT discussion was scheduled for Thursday but things can shift at the last minute. Dierdra Vaal is chairing this Summit in my absence, and has told me he will try to post daily updates to give an overview of each day. However, that can be easier said than done when in the thick of the work/social stuff plus sometimes not being sure what is NDA and what isn't until CCP validates, so cut him some slack if he doesn't rise to the particular challenge of posting dailies. Wink

Manfred Sideous
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.12.13 21:41:00 - [93]
 

#1 Wormholes I think have served as a good beta for removing local in other areas of Eve. I think the time has come to remove local from 0.0 and Low Sec. No data should be transmitted to the client when others enter a solar system. Perhaps a small rebuff to the scanner is in order adding more functionality to it. The trade off would be that constellation chat would function as local chat does now.

#2 All moon minerals should be moved to planetary interaction. This takes the isk out of the hands of large corporations and alliances and places it in the hands of the player. Social paradigms in Eve will adjust to this change trust me. This will also strengthen the bond between Eve players and Dust players. Something I think that CCP would be interested in.

#3 All production should be moved to player operated stations ( POS). Well they need some reason to exist now due to point 2. Having outpost in 0.0 increases the production efficiency of a POS. In empire or lowsec having standings to the owner of any production station increases the efficiency in which you produce from a POS in empire/low sec systems.

#4 Lvl 4 and 5 Missions should be moved to lowsec. The reason being is once you kill the bots there will be hordes of mission bots created. With the nerf of local chat in lowsec bots simply wont be able to function.

( A side note once you remove local us PVP'rs will feast on anyone that tries to use a bot as they will be such easy prey. Jump into local warp cloaked once your target is scanned down. Approach to smart bomb range decloak and smartbomb before the bot can log causing aggression.)

#5 CCP Chribba - Change the Eula make it illegal to trade sell supercaps without using CCPchribba. Hire a small staff with GM powers to hop to any system at any time. A fee is paid of 300 million isk or 14.99 and CCPchribba handles the transfer. Im aware all items have a unique ID and so do players. When a supercap is entered by a pod it is recorded. Should another pod try to enter a supercapital without CCPchribba facilitating the transfer it throws a flag to GM's . Punishment is then leavied for violation the EULA/TOS. Whola no more supercaps for cash. 300 million isk is the fee Chribba currently charges for transfers. I would think that you would need 3 full time employees and 2 part time employees to handle this operation. Each trade no matter how it is paid puts money in CCP's pocket. The only person adversely effected is Chribba.

* Addendum - Players can have other characters that they themselves control added to the allowed list of character ID's able to inhabit a Supercapital they own. ( this is a pre-work around to the cries that will come from people who use holding characters for when there super isn't in use)


This would be how I would curbstomp RMT and botting. I think these changes would seriously limit both operations and add more diversity to Eve.

♥ Manny

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2010.12.13 21:54:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Datcorinna Erunde
Step Five
Ban the crap out of them bot acounts and repeat from Step One.


No, no, NO!

That's wrong.

The correct step 5 is follow the freakin' ISK, then once the money trail has been mapped out, get out the biggest banhammer you have.

Banning single accounts won't accomplish anything at all. CCP has to follow the money trail and find the guilty players, rather than merely banning the guilty characters.

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2010.12.13 22:16:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Cyaxares II on 13/12/2010 22:17:01
Originally by: Vincent Athena
good stuff

admit it... you are just waiting for some botter to offer you a consulting gig and that post was your advertisement Razz

Cato X
Posted - 2010.12.13 22:17:00 - [96]
 

Last month I took my Stealth Bomber out to dronelands and anchored a couple of containers with supplies. I lived out there for a few weeks. Within a couple of hours I identified dozens of macro botters and even caught a few ravens with bubbles as they mechanically warped back to the POS. I went back an hour later and podded them--they where still sitting where my bubble was. I petitioned a half a dozen accounts with proof like this and added them to my watch list. To this day these toons are still logged on 23 hours a day grinding away isk for their master. When they log off, they all log off at once, and log back on at once--even though they are spread across many systems.

CCP would have been better off not posting this blog, because it just confirms what we had feared and are now upset aboutout--that this is all BAU and nothing serious being done to address botting.

Your not going to change the fact that black markets will always exist everywhere, so change what you can control--the client and the server software to make it difficult to bot. It's work but its not all that hard:

1. Make slight changes to memory assignments or variables names once a month that break bot applications. This will force Bot programmers costs up and force them to reverse engineer the client once on a month. It will also break the bot enough to turn off bot users.
2. Create a tool that profiles botting behavior/ Look for time online, repetitive commands, high NPC kill systems with low population, ect...
3. Create a tool that takes the suspicious toons from #2 above, and dumps information from the client that reveals if the client has been modified by a bot program--there is your proof.
4. Create a "cosmic disturbance" around asteroid fields, anomolies, and grav sites where, upon landing, the ship is scrammed and webbed until a piece of information is entered that is graphically displayed.--easy meat for anyone looking for a kill.
5. Hold corporations and alliances accountable for their members botting with heavy ISK fines. Fine the Alliance and the Corp 5 times the estimated one month ISK proceeds from the bot.

There is no silver bullet, but by appearances the problem is being completely ignored. Do something--please.

Joshua Cy
Posted - 2010.12.13 22:21:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Manfred Sideous

---stuff---


#1. Removing local unbalances intel in favor of the invaders. EVE has enough bad balancing, we do not need more. In addition, it would make low sec even less desirable, and more of a wasteland.

#2. Big alliances are just as capable of doing PI as anyone else.

#3. So lets put production into the hands of big alliances? And leave the new player frozen out of production?

#4. Mission bots do L1 and L2 hauler missions on trial accounts. Moving the L4 missions will mainly hurt legitimate players. Most mission runners I know will not go into low sec for any reason. If local was removed, even more would stay out.

#5 Chribba is not CCP. And if bots mine all the minerals for the supercap, and the alliance owning the bots builds it, it never changes hands.

All these changes would be little more than a bump in the road to the bots, if that.


Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2010.12.13 22:27:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Joshua Cy
#5 Chribba is not CCP. And if bots mine all the minerals for the supercap, and the alliance owning the bots builds it, it never changes hands.


You completely misunderstood the #5 part of his post.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.13 22:31:00 - [99]
 

Okay, CCP, tip.

If a dev blog doesn't tell the players anything they don't already know, it's a crappy dev blog.

Here's what the players know:
  1. Eve currently has a macro problem. Not RMT, macro.

  2. Macroing problems have gotten worse lately

  3. The macroing is highly visible

  4. CCP aren't banning these highly visible macroers

If you, the dev, are reading this and thinking "Hey, that's not true" to any of these, then you've got a broken assumption on your hands and you need to fix that. Because right now, the blog does nothing more than say "Hey, Eve has RMT! Hey, we don't like RMT! Hey, here are some of the things in the past we've done to deal with RMT! Thanks for your support!"

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.12.13 23:09:00 - [100]
 

Eve doesn't need Sov to be fun, doesn't need Titans and SCs to be fun. We don't need officer mods that cost an arm and a leg to have fun.

Want to stop RMT and bots, then get rid of the need for RMT and bots. Keep expensive needs and things will remain as they are. There there will be another Rage wave and maybe a few changes to game play here or there, but in the end, the need for huge amounts of ISK will remain, and a year later, we'll be right back here again. So long as there is a motive for a crime, there will be someone driven to commit the crime.

Sure it will sound radical to some, but here's an idea. Limit an alliance to 10 systems max, get rid of Titans and MamaShips, get rid of officer drops or make them much more common so as to drive down prices (In all honesty, why aren't player made things (T2/T3/Tn) the peak of performance?). Move moon goo to the player level (PI like as someone suggested).

Does having all this extra stuff make Eve more fun, or just more need to grind?

The battle should not be against bots and RMT, but a battle against the need for grind.

Bic Pentameter
Posted - 2010.12.13 23:16:00 - [101]
 

someone reading this that has been thinking "well maybe, perhaps, could be, i might try a bot".

now they know that they are likely to get away with it.
and even if they DO get caught nothing much will happen.

people who are trying to be honest miners can easily come to the conclusion that they are fools for trying to be honest when there are so many people that take pleasure in their misery.

if they are killed often by greifers, the game is ruined for them.
if they are killed for being a bot they might actually make allot of money before they get killed.

that along with this big advertisement blog might be too tempting for the weak willed.
not only that they can sell isk to the isk spammers for real world cash.
although i must say i see fewer isk spammers than in the past.
so something that was done has helped with that problem, thank you CCP.

i say recruit the greifers into this equation and give them what they want.
a chance to ruin someones day.

i say have a 72hour flag put on someone that is reported as a bot.
for 72 hours of online activity their account activity is logged in minute detail.
how many microseconds did it take to make a certain motion, and so forth.

at the end of this log period, it should take more than 72 hours real time to collect this 72 hours of online data, it will be posted to some trusted persons email account to be looked over.
if it is decided that they are a bot, than all people that reported the bot will get evemail telling them that there is now a bot bounty on that character.
and 24 hours after that notification goes to the bot reporters, it goes on the billboards.

anyone killing the bot in high sec or low sec or 0.0 space is not attacked by concord, and gains good reputation points with all major factions.

this idea may have no chance of ever being implemented, but maybe it will be a seed for an idea that might lead to some workable solution.

Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2010.12.14 00:12:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
- make PLAYING EVE require brain or a supercomputer or two to macro Twisted Evil
- make all means of making isk/getting epic items require brain, lots of planning, and causes centers of focus to form. With this as a strategy players and bots must gravitate to such sites in order to make their EVE living.
- make it so that the more a system is emptied of npcs/roids the less it produces/they are worth
- make npcs movable in that they try to put their resources away from player focus to avoid being farmed, why would an npc sit there and let you shoot them if they know they will lose... not an effective strategy Laughing
- make overall bounty creation equal to or less than isk creation. Also, allow for more isk creation if overall trade increases (sales tax/broker fees, proportional of course) therefore allowing the trade to take place with sufficient isk. You wouldn't want to crash the economy now would you? LaughingCoolTwisted Evil
- make mining more interactive in that you can choose which mineral you specifically want to mine out of a roid (that is rotating) and make us move our lazors around the roid to do it effectively/efficiently. This makes mining more cpu cycle intensive for bots and opens up more means of detecting botters based on their mining habits (humans don't always have exacting efficiency).
- make more anti-blob mods like the "Remote ECM Burst I"... imagine if you could fit something like that on a falcon Twisted Evil. CCP, make tech 3 falcon that can fit things like this!YARRRR!!
- make epic items like the previously mentioned mod fittable to new tech 3 ships and make them available only from the previously mentioned moving center of focus sites or from a mechanic from those sites in combination with player activity... can anyone say Jamyl Sarum's ultimate chain lightning weapon!Twisted Evil Make counters to it of course... just make it require a brain to do so (incredibly cpu intensive for a bot to counter).



FIXED

menotosiraireatue Bob
Posted - 2010.12.14 01:17:00 - [103]
 

Please everyone stfu. if you quit yell and work together to pention then the world will be a better place. so if you want to "police" then get off your ass and police.

Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2010.12.14 02:26:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: menotosiraireatue Bob
Please everyone stfu. if you quit yell and work together to pention then the world will be a better place. so if you want to "police" then get off your ass and police.


First- "Troll detected" ugh
Second- "Nuclear missile launch detected" Twisted Evil
Third- Won't work, game mechanics make it difficult to detect botters. CCP's statement of 100's of botters banned every week has little effect on botters in general ugh You can petition, but it has little effect overall Confused
Fourth- In order to slow down botting you must change game mechanics so that grinding is a more intuition or "cerebral" based activity. This basically means that in order to bot now it will require much more effort from a botter computer's capabilities. The harder a computer must work in order to bot the less profit their is. Less profit means less isk creation or less isk supply. And while isk supply will drop, the demand for isk will not. This makes isk worth more and therefore will lower the price for PLEX due to a greater supply of it. Overall, by changing game mechanics to be more human brain based CCP will get more of the isk demand through PLEX's, which means more money for them YARRRR!! We will have to wait until after WIS though ugh

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2010.12.14 02:26:00 - [105]
 

Your blog is fluff without any concrete statistics.

Why not list how many get banned each day?
Why not name and shame those characters caught in the act of RMT that get banned?

Hard numbers and transparency is what I (and probably a lot of others) want here CCP, not vaporous statements like "hundreds per day". Post logs of bans. Thanks.

Zyno 04
Posted - 2010.12.14 02:40:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Zyno 04 on 14/12/2010 04:42:28
I'm sorry but this borders on the surreal.

The game client has been hacked. Apparently there are commercial bots that no longer need to run the eve client to operate. As exposed in the eve news article, this sort of botting isn't only widespread, it goes unchecked and pumps trillions in the economy.

Entire 0.0 power blocs are demonstrated, through dotlan anecdotal evidence and other reports, as being strictly supported by RMT and botting.

Trit and Ice are at an all time low. It's the players themselves doing the investigation and exposing to the rest of you the full the extend of botting in the current EVE universe.

And you give us what? Plenitudes, and a "heck of a job brownie" pat on the back for petitioning? Is this supposed to be a joke? Don't you realize that botting is the biggest threat to EVE as a game? As players come to the conclusion that they are competing in a rigged environment, that spending those 4 or 5 hours ratting or mining for a couple of extra million actually makes you look like a fool when the guy next door just runs his bot and is never short on isk?

Who wants to play in this sandbox? Why would any sane person ever rat or mine for isk when the payoff competes with 23/7 bots?

I really don't thing CCP even realizes the impact bots are having on their game.
  • Renting 0.0 space now surpasses the 10 billion mark simply because bots set the new standard, shutting real players out.

  • Nobody actively mines. Prices are so low that you need a bot to actually pay off the effort.

  • Missions rewards (implants) have recently returned back to the pre unholy rage price range, negating its effects completely.


I know a good portion of the EVE player base couldn't care less about botting. The PVP crowd just needs cheap ships and a steady income to replace them so they aren't going to make a lot of noise about this. Same for CCP. I'm sure Hilmar nearly collapsed when he realized that unholy rage would mean 15k less paying subs. Bots buy plexes and plexes pay salaries.

But my biggest gripe is with the CSM. Everyone threw a hissy fit due to neural remaps for plex, when those would still be available free to the player (once per year) and could be purchased through in game isk. But botting, which completely distorts and cripples this game, and is something that CCP has been ambiguous about (due to their own $ interest) doesn't top the discussions every single meeting?

We are nearing a threshold here folks. When real players, specially new players, cannot compete in the sandbox unless they bot, whats to become of EVE then?


Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2010.12.14 02:50:00 - [107]
 

CCP seems to continue to conflate 'macro-user/botter' with 'RMT'. Of course there's overlap, but what I see a lot of us players griping about is the botters specifically (I'm just going to lump in macros and bots from here on out, as both are against the EULA and do more or less the same thing, as I understand it).

The blog does mention that they understand that botting is not always RMT and vice versa, but the rest of the blog hammers on the RMT side without mentioning botters much again, except in context of RMT.

I've never used a bot to play a game for me, and I think a lot of the upset is that there are so many who ARE botting, that it almost becomes pointless (or, even, IS pointless) to manually do these tasks - and yet from the outside we don't get to see much in the way of results - the same suspected characters keep doing what they do.

So then we get this blog which reads like a morale speech - 'Stay strong men! The enemy are many but we are resilient! Keep buying warbonds! Also if you talk to the badguys they might steal your house, and all the stuff you store inside!'

We hear your message, CCP, we've heard it before.

Oh, and lastly, you mention in your blog that many claim ignorance of the EULA and your stance on RMT and botting. "Ignorance is no excuse." (yes, I'm quoting a fictional totalitarian gestapo figure). This is not a court of law. It's your game, it's your (and our) passion. Burn these mother****ers.

everto congero
Posted - 2010.12.14 03:09:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Zyno 04
I'm sorry but this borders on the surreal.

The game client has been hacked. Apparently there are commercial bots that no longer need to run the eve client to operate. As exposed in the eve news article, this sort of botting isn't only widespread, it goes unchecked and pumps trillions in the economy.

Entire 0.0 power blocs are demonstrated, through dotlan anecdotal evidence and other reports, as being strictly supported by RMT and botting.

Trit and Ice are at an all time low. It's the players themselves doing the investigation and exposing to the rest of you the full the extend of botting in the current EVE universe.

And you give us what? Plenitudes, and a "heck of a job brownie" pat on the back for petitioning? Is this supposed to be a joke? Don't you realize that botting is the biggest threat to EVE as a game? As players come to the conclusion that they are competing in a rigged environment, that spending those 4 or 5 hours ratting or mining for a couple of extra million actually makes you look like a fool when the guy next door just runs his bot and is never short on isk?

Who wants to play in this sandbox? Why would any sane person ever rat or mine for isk when the payoff competes with 23/7 bots?

I really don't thing CCP even realizes the impact bots are having on their game.
  • Renting 0.0 space now surpasses the 10 billion mark simply because bots set the new standard, shutting real players out.

  • Nobody actively mines. Prices are so low that you need a bot to actually pay off the effort.

  • Missions rewards (implants) have recently returned back to the pre unholy rage price range, negating its effects completely.


I know a good portion of the EVE player base couldn't care less about botting. The PVP crowd just needs cheap ships and a steady income to replace them so they aren't going to make a lot of noise about this. Same for CCP. I'm sure Hilmar nearly collapsed when he realized that unholy rage would mean 15k less paying subs. Bots buy plexes and plexes pay salaries.

But my biggest gripe is with the CSM. Everyone threw a hissy fit due to neural remaps for plex, when those would still be available free to the player (once per year) and could be purchased through in game isk. But botting, which completely distorts and cripples this game, and is something that CCP has been ambiguous about (due to their own $ interest) doesn't top the discussions every single meeting?

We are nearing a threshold here folks. When real players, specially new players, cannot compete in the sandbox unless they bot, and whats going to become of EVE then?





I could not have put this better myself.


Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.12.14 04:33:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Mynxee on 14/12/2010 04:58:08
Originally by: Zyno 04
But my biggest gripe is with the CSM. Everyone threw a hissy fit due to neural remaps for plex, when those would still be available free to the player (once per year) and could be purchased through in game isk. But botting, which completely distorts and cripples this game, and is something that CCP has been ambiguous about (due to their own $ interest) doesn't top the discussions every single meeting?

We are nearing a threshold here folks. When real players, specially new players, cannot compete in the sandbox unless they bot, and whats going to become of EVE then?


Good post, but let me address your gripe with the CSM. We have been expressing our concerns internally to CCP since the recent community posts about RMT sprang up not just here on EVE O but elsewhere. There has been some CCP response but with the Summit so close at hand, I imagine the parties involved are waiting for face time with the CSM to address the matter. As for "top the discussions at every single meeting", if you're talking about sessions at this Summit, well...RMT...as bad as it is for the game...is not a topic appropriate to every session on the Summit agenda. However, I expect it will come up in several sessions where it is contextually appropriate--including the ones on the economy, null sec, and game design which together comprise a significant percentage of meeting time. I have asked a few CSM members take thorough notes to make sure they capture as much of the details of RMT discussions as possible. Those notes will be vital in ensuring that the subsequent minutes illustrate the nature of the conversations and provide a thorough accounting of what was discussed (except for stuff that is determined to be covered by the NDA--some of which the CSM may question if the determination seems to be bull****).

And as to your final conclusion/question? I totally agree with you on that.

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.12.14 04:46:00 - [110]
 

dev blog with no graphs, boooooooo!

Datcorinna Erunde
Posted - 2010.12.14 05:27:00 - [111]
 

Quote:
...an hour later...they where still sitting where my bubble was... petitioned a half a dozen accounts with proof like this ... To this day these toons are still logged on 23 hours a day...


Quote:
...honest miners ... are fools ...


Quote:
Don't you realize that botting is the biggest threat to EVE as a game? ... spending those 4 or 5 hours ratting or mining ... makes you look like a fool when the guy next door just runs his bot ...


Until now CCP may think "ok, botting isn't nice, but each and every account from these bot users is nothing other than a paying account that generates income for the company, so let them do as long as no high sec casual is taking notice..."

Dear CCP, EVERY ONE took notice now!

Oh how you must hate this horus- like named guy now, he was cutting your income one way or the other. Either you go and ban those botters - you lose. Or the casual highsec dwellers leave by canceling them accounts - you lose too. Oh how you must hate this horus- like named guy now...

Now it's time to make a serious decision: Is the amount of not-closed bot accounts from now on still compensating you for the amount of angry account cancelers that you will encounter in the future? Well, you won't tell us, but nevertheless we will see. Just by reading you next devblogs on this matter, you know... these blogs with the word "rage" in the title.

Shepard Book
Posted - 2010.12.14 06:36:00 - [112]
 

I am pretty sure this blog is to let us know that you know that we know that you know there is a problem. Forums have been raging lately and I think you want to answer them in one swoop. Some people are gonna rage either way. Design flaw that can be fixed? I hope so. You will keep fighting? I am sure you will. I think everyone will agree it sounds way to easy to use bots. I hope you will start looking seriously at system design and come up with a new plan because waiting for someone to petition someone is not working.

One thing I do want to acknowledge is that Eve is not alone. ALL the companies out there in this industry have this problem.

The client and local seem to be big issues that are raised over and over by customers of Eve. I hope you come up with a plan to address both.

Thanks

Jaggins
Ixion Defence Systems
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.12.14 07:35:00 - [113]
 

A quick scan on Dotlan shows a few systems to start investigating:

1H5-3W
3H58-R
RQOO-U
5-VFC6
IUU3-L
C-NMG9
RIU-GC

I'm sure CCP can monitor a system without trace. I just spent 30 seconds on Dotlan and can easily see where the macro botters are at work. From roaming through Drone space, we would notice the bots warp to a safe POS and log as soon as we entered certain systems around R-6KYM.

The problem is interesting since players know where this is a major problem and anyone can filter Dotlan to show NPC kills in the last 24 hours to identify likely botting systems. The fact that these systems keep having huge numbers of NPC kills makes it seem like no one is interested in actually stopping the obvious problem. If CCP is actually watching these systems and verifying that they are not being botted, we would love to hear all about it in a Dev Blog. On a side note, rumor is some seriously sketchy stuff is going down in Assilot. Or so I've heard. I think it involves a kinky pink kitty bOOTY and a fleet of Thoraxi. You might not want to secretly spai on that station...

F'C
Posted - 2010.12.14 08:24:00 - [114]
 

How dare you call this a dev blog?!

Sister Hypatia
Posted - 2010.12.14 08:24:00 - [115]
 

I've reported several highsec mining bots (you know, 23/7 online ones). Still there and digging, so reporting bots is useless! I guess their logs show nothing. Devblog is useless and shows nothing too.

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2010.12.14 08:26:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: Cyaxares II on 14/12/2010 08:38:09

I have said it before but let me repeat it:

It is very possible that botting has become far too big to fail.

If I were Dr. EyjoG the only way I would agree to a serious removal of bots is if I would get a "place covert NPC order" button in my EVE client in return.

Spiking mineral/LP prices and a general tendency towards deflation would be a hardly predictable mix.
Falling PLEX prices (measured in ISK) because of less demand by bots could make RMT worse and cost CCP RL money if the botters manage to keep their own prices more stable (maybe they have hidden stocks they can liquidate over time, maybe the can really hire chinese gold farmers to fill the void bots have left, maybe they buy a lot more from a select few customers that are unlikely to get hit in a general banning of bots [one comment on the forum that must not be named hinted at a very low number of trading bot operators providing a large share of RMT ISK], ...).

I also think we all tend to underestimate the pervasiveness of casual botting by miners. Just because you own a bot does not mean you have to run it 23/7 or use the ISK generated for RMT or to fund a large 0.0 alliance. I have met enough people in this game (corp mates, alliance mates, public chat channels) who have no qualms about automating their Mackinaw just to get enough ice for a POS tower or two. These are otherwise honest subscribers that CCP wouldn't really want to lose.

IMO economic turmoil could lead to much larger complaints than a few concerns about botting (a topic that gets some traction on the forums every few months and then gets forgotten again).

So the only way I would feel safe about large-scale bannings of bots would be if CCP has the option to play the market by selling minerals, setting up PLEX buy orders with freshly created fiat money, ... (via straw man characters of course) and decides to use this option to enforce soft boundaries on possible extreme market reactions.

not to mention that the 0.0 playing field would get even more uneven - if you nerf the ISK generation of alliances in general those that have an ISK advantage now (and manage to make this ISK appear legit before the eyes of GMs) will enjoy it for a very long time because everyone who is poor right now has no way to catch up (atm the poor can rent a constellation, bot the hell out of it and work their way up from there).

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.14 08:52:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 08:54:42
Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Datcorinna Erunde
For your convenience the great Wollari even colored the shown systems accordingly to the amount of the occured kills. He colored it from white (like "almost nothing") via green, yellow, orange up to a fine, perfect visible shiny red (like "unusually high occurance of NPC kills in this very system OMG OMG!!!!!!11111" or, more fitting "look here CCP, here are the bots!").


Third party tools to the rescue...again.




Indeed. Heres what 15 minutes effort shows.....

Time to name and shame - these are the 15 most blatant botting systems in the game and if CCP can't deal with it then its time to pack up and find another game :

8OYE-Z : Cache (SOLAR WING)
Y-OMTZ : Delve (IT Alliance)
G2-INZ : Esoteria (Stainless)
HHQ-M1 : Esoteria (Stainless)
ROJ-B0 : Insmother (RED Citizens)
VBPT-T : Insmother (RED Citizens)
Y-770C : Oasa (Legion of xXDEATHXx)
RO-AIQ : Oasa (Shadow of xXDEATHXx)
G-B3PR : Omist (White Angels)
UC-8XF : Outer Passage (Shadow of xXDEATHXx)
F-HQWV : Perrigen Falls (SOLAR FLEET)
W-IIYI : Querious (IT Alliance)
WIW-X8 : The Spire (SOLAR FLEET)
HM-UVD : Stain (AAA/AAA Citizens)
4F89-U : Wicked Creek (The Jagged Alliance)

Oh and as an observation - looks like some alliances got told to stop botting for a while about 24 hours ago. Its very very clear when you look at the dotlan maps - pretty much all ratting activity ceased in certain eastern regions at exactly the same time.

Serpents smile
Posted - 2010.12.14 08:55:00 - [118]
 

Surprised
Something is wrong with page 1 of this thread, cannot access it. 500 error personal is warned etc error message.

Cresalle
Posted - 2010.12.14 09:17:00 - [119]
 

This is not a dev blog. Nor are many of the entries you put under the heading of 'dev blog', such as that thinly veiled advertisement you published not too long ago.

Knock it the **** off.

Make a new blogging section for non-development stuff.

As for bots and RMT, now that you mention it I have seen a lot of bottish behavior in nul lately. I like what that one guy did with the bubble. I'll have to try that myself next time I suspsect bots.

woodywilson2
Posted - 2010.12.14 09:35:00 - [120]
 

The dev blog didn't really say anything new, and had the feel of playing to the peanut gallery.


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