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cosmiclown
Posted - 2011.01.15 02:07:00 - [301]
 

Great flame CCP Laughing

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.01.16 16:14:00 - [302]
 

Let's try this one more time to see if it will stick:

When PvE (ie: making ISK) is challenging, unpredictable and needs some actual intelligence, then we'll see a big falloff in botting.

Eg: Rats that have faintly realistic fits and behave with a modicum of intelligence (sleeper AI is a big step forward here), including trying to escape when they're threatened.

Eg: Rats that do not behave in very slow, completely predictable ways, and sometimes appear in unexpectedly large numbers, and pull stunts like try and decoy the ratter to one side of a site, so that hauler spawns or faction spawns can try and escape from another part.

Eg: Belt and Anomaly spawns that routinely escalate, where one has to solve a puzzle to work out where the escalation site is. The escalation sites have the real value.

Eg: Asteroid belts where the miner has to use some skill and intelligence to find the ore-bearing rocks

Eg: Asteroids with unevenly distributed veins and concentrations of ore, so the miner has to skillfully aim his mining beams through a 3-dimensional volume to get the optimum efficiency out of them.


Changes like the above would make EVE's PvE much more engaging and fun, whilst making life very difficult indeed for the bots. Double-win.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.01.16 20:23:00 - [303]
 

Originally by: Malcanis


Eg: Asteroid belts where the miner has to use some skill and intelligence to find the ore-bearing rocks




I like the idea of hiding a capcha on the asteroids themselves, so instead of picking your asteroids on the overview you have to look at the asteroid and it's skin tells you if it's real or a decoy.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.01.16 21:35:00 - [304]
 

Originally by: mkmin
Originally by: Malcanis


Eg: Asteroid belts where the miner has to use some skill and intelligence to find the ore-bearing rocks




I like the idea of hiding a capcha on the asteroids themselves, so instead of picking your asteroids on the overview you have to look at the asteroid and it's skin tells you if it's real or a decoy.


How good are macros at pattern recognition?

John Fistcram
Posted - 2011.01.17 03:28:00 - [305]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: mkmin
Originally by: Malcanis


Eg: Asteroid belts where the miner has to use some skill and intelligence to find the ore-bearing rocks




I like the idea of hiding a capcha on the asteroids themselves, so instead of picking your asteroids on the overview you have to look at the asteroid and it's skin tells you if it's real or a decoy.




How good are macros at pattern recognition?


Short answer: As good as the programmer creating macro.

Long answer: Macros are good at patterns but not in the form of optical recognition this is possible but is more complex due to shading pixelation, lag, overlay and other interferances it also depends on what script code is avaliable, probably can be done with time but again its pattern would become obvious to CCP eventually.

Transfer point
Posted - 2011.01.17 03:31:00 - [306]
 

You warp to a belt:

1/ none of the asteroids are named,
2/ you have to scan the asteroid to find out it's content (some roids are just husks),
3/ once the asteroid has been mined out a shell is left, once again, no name

~DT has the asteroids reformed, but not all of them
~Local NPC pirates also mine a bit, and they have security with them with frigs scram/webbing and cruisers present in any system below .8

Should mess the bots up enough as well as cutting their tank down.

Bhattran
Posted - 2011.01.17 14:10:00 - [307]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Let's try this one more time to see if it will stick:

When PvE (ie: making ISK) is challenging, unpredictable and needs some actual intelligence, then we'll see a big falloff in botting.

Eg: Rats that have faintly realistic fits and behave with a modicum of intelligence (sleeper AI is a big step forward here), including trying to escape when they're threatened.

Eg: Rats that do not behave in very slow, completely predictable ways, and sometimes appear in unexpectedly large numbers, and pull stunts like try and decoy the ratter to one side of a site, so that hauler spawns or faction spawns can try and escape from another part.

Eg: Belt and Anomaly spawns that routinely escalate, where one has to solve a puzzle to work out where the escalation site is. The escalation sites have the real value.

Eg: Asteroid belts where the miner has to use some skill and intelligence to find the ore-bearing rocks

Eg: Asteroids with unevenly distributed veins and concentrations of ore, so the miner has to skillfully aim his mining beams through a 3-dimensional volume to get the optimum efficiency out of them.


Changes like the above would make EVE's PvE much more engaging and fun, whilst making life very difficult indeed for the bots. Double-win.


I'd gladly pay $1 every two days for PVE like that a month in advance.

Zen Q
Posted - 2011.01.30 23:08:00 - [308]
 

Anything CCP?


Crucis Cassiopeiae
Amarr
PORSCHE AG
Posted - 2011.01.31 07:02:00 - [309]
 

Originally by: Transfer point
You warp to a belt:

1/ none of the asteroids are named,
2/ you have to scan the asteroid to find out it's content (some roids are just husks),
3/ once the asteroid has been mined out a shell is left, once again, no name

~DT has the asteroids reformed, but not all of them
~Local NPC pirates also mine a bit, and they have security with them with frigs scram/webbing and cruisers present in any system below .8

Should mess the bots up enough as well as cutting their tank down.


+1




Originally by: Zen Q
Anything CCP?




signed

Mathazarn
Posted - 2011.02.01 10:17:00 - [310]
 

Edited by: Mathazarn on 01/02/2011 10:18:10
I mine because it's easy and somewhat theraputic after a long day at the office. I dont need some shmuck telling ccp that it needs to be as god awful involved a process as the new PI system. For the record, there is no 'Design' of complexity that can secure against botting other than software that watches for code injection. Making the game more complex will not stop botting as macro's can be created to do what you do but better. Adding layer of so called complexity is a waste of time and energy.

Mikel Laurentson
Posted - 2011.02.07 19:43:00 - [311]
 

Does Grimmi even read the forums? If so, why no replies?

I'm more than a little peeved that there's been absolutely no official response to the questions raised in this thread. Why have a comments thread if you've no intent to respond?

Severian Carnifex
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.14 22:34:00 - [312]
 

6 threads about Bots, Botting and Botters on the first page of EVE General Discussion forum and no single reply from DEVs...

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.16 21:53:00 - [313]
 

Oddly the 1st page of this thread is down, and I am not sure how to find the devblog, I wanted to compare it to the original unholy rage and see if there was any recycled text.

Anselm's MajorDomo
Posted - 2011.02.18 18:20:00 - [314]
 

Originally by: Transfer point
You warp to a belt:

1/ none of the asteroids are named,
2/ you have to scan the asteroid to find out it's content (some roids are just husks),
3/ once the asteroid has been mined out a shell is left, once again, no name

~DT has the asteroids reformed, but not all of them
~Local NPC pirates also mine a bit, and they have security with them with frigs scram/webbing and cruisers present in any system below .8

Should mess the bots up enough as well as cutting their tank down.


This.I think this has real possibility without too big of a change. It turns asteroid mining from a task like mowing (suck down every roid you see) to a task more like prospecting ("there's gold here somewhere....ahhh! That's one with juice in it!"). To make it even more interesting, a certain number of random asteroids have impure ore in them. A scan makes that show up with your survey scan results, so intelligent players can avoid it/not mine it. If the macrobot ignores the "impure ore" result, and tries to mine it, it clogs up the mining laser or mining drones, in a manner akin to overheating modules. The overheated modules stop working, and must be hauled into station and repaired for an ISK charge. This also provides another ISK sink in the game, but one that will affect 'bots worse than aware human beings.

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.02.18 19:56:00 - [315]
 

CCP does not want to hold the ugly baby.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.18 20:34:00 - [316]
 

did this blog vanish? Can someone link to it?

xaja
Posted - 2011.02.22 15:59:00 - [317]
 

Originally by: El Mauru
I imagine things like the incursions have got the potential to interrupt botting to a certain degree.
BTW. There was a very informative video interview conducted about RMT btw and it mentioned Eve-Online. I can't link it because links to RMT sites are mentioned, should be up on youtube though - it was conducted by shattered crystal with a known reseller of farmed/botted isk.

Most of the discussion was about WoW, but EVE got mentioned.

Bottomline was:

- EVE has a stable currency as opposed to WoW (only approx. 30% inflation as opposed to Wow, where value of currency fluctuates massively), potentially making it more attractive for farmers.

- Botted ISK makes a comparably low faction of "ISK INFLUX" for botters. Most comes from stolen accounts.

- Hackers aquire account details by hacking fan-sites/forums (i.e.: use different passwords for EVE and forums).

- 80% of all RMT is still Wow, EVE is an absolute niche-market.




Given Blizzard's success with IP based account locking, a lot of new gold farmers may have been driven into EVE, causing that much more of a distortion, cause EVE is a much smaller game...



Originally by: El Mauru

- Macro botting on a larger scale (i.e. for isk-resellers) is only marginally worth it in Eve because they have to undercut PLEX-prices, deal with the fact that CCP actually penalizes players (as opposed to other MMORPGs) if caught and the fact that bots still loose ships to stuff + the required logistics train, driving prices up.


The convenience and safety for RMT'ers of using Plex for transactions both ways, might easily make up for lower margins based on "having to compete" with CCP.




Originally by: El Mauru


- Banning the actual botters deals only marginal damage while banning holding alts would be a real game-breaker to ISK-resellers (i.e.: the guys handling transactions between the farmers and the end-customer).

- The last Ban-wave nearly killed the RMT market for Eve, pushing prices for ISK almost to Plex price.

- Stolen characters are frequently used as spam alts for RMT sites after having been cleaned out.

- Most RMTers rely on announcements/temper in the community on when to go low-profile as to protect their holding characters.


It seems as if the best course of action and the highest chance of success for CCP would be to strike when the whole botting discussion has calmed down again- and to investigate where the transactions between the individual botters and the holding alts take place (for example, freighter jumps from known macro-systems - loosing a JF alt must hurt) or the contract system.




This last bit about jump freighters makes it sound like EVE players could actually get together and do something about it in-game, by blowing up their jump freighters...

But then, as major alliances have come to depend on RMT'ers they'll shield them, especially since they are renters in their space, like someone suggested in an earlier post.

A cap on how much can be charged for rented systems would be very un-eve like, maybe CCP has a better idea to prevent that kind of unholy alliance.

onyu
Posted - 2011.02.22 16:11:00 - [318]
 

Edited by: onyu on 22/02/2011 16:18:25
Originally by: Transfer point
You warp to a belt:

1/ none of the asteroids are named,
2/ you have to scan the asteroid to find out it's content (some roids are just husks),
3/ once the asteroid has been mined out a shell is left, once again, no name

~DT has the asteroids reformed, but not all of them
~Local NPC pirates also mine a bit, and they have security with them with frigs scram/webbing and cruisers present in any system below .8

Should mess the bots up enough as well as cutting their tank down.


Many here seem to be over-obsessed about botting to the point of tunnel vision.

From data I've seen in regards to RMT in MMO's, hacked, cleaned out accounts are 80% of the problem.

So this won't do a whole lot, except reduce availability of easy targets, but by all means, if you take mining out of the game entirely, it'll be all the same to me...

1 week into the game, I concluded that mining had nothing to do with playing a game, its less fun than working at a gas station and without pay... have at it Laughing

Mikel Laurentson
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:52:00 - [319]
 

Originally by: CCP Fallout
In his new dev blog, GM Grimmi discusses the ongoing efforts of Unholy Rage and the continued work towards removing macroers from the game and how we continue to work against real money transfers (RMT).


Quoting for people who couldn't make page 1 load.

TigerXtrm
APEX ARDENT COALITION
Posted - 2011.02.24 09:34:00 - [320]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 13/12/2010 15:56:25
The cancer is in item and ship sales - especially of super capitals, rather than in ISK trade. When it's $700 for a supercarrier and a titan, who on earth is going to pay $2,916 for PLEXs for the ISK you'd need to buy them?

This devblog shows what some of us have been saying all along about the post Unholy Rage RMT fight; you guys are looking in all the wrong places.


Anyone who spends such numbers on assets in a video game should be dragged out of their basement and tied up in the town square with sign around his neck saying "I have no life, please give me one". That is seriously not healthy.

Mikel Laurentson
Posted - 2011.02.25 22:06:00 - [321]
 

Edited by: Mikel Laurentson on 25/02/2011 22:06:23
Originally by: Zen Q
Anything CCP?




I suspect they have a reason for not communicating anything solid, despite clear and direct promises back in December.

Namely, "they don't give a ferox". Sure, some CCP devs lied to their customers, and CCP GMs throw up a smokescreen and then never log into the forums, but that's okay, it's not like anyone is going to quit because cheaters prosper in EVE. Wink

Xiao yatou Kashada
Posted - 2011.03.02 03:20:00 - [322]
 

Dear CCP administrator. Hello,At present, there are many people in the game in use illegal scripts,Include automatic hunt pirates, automatic missions, automatic mining,Hope you as soon as possible to solve the ~ of the destruction to balance the game people to be punished。Thank you very much!

Razz

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.03.02 04:58:00 - [323]
 

I like the idea of removing the names from asteroids. Just name them all "asteroid". Make the composition of the asteroid only viewable using a composition scanner. People might actually fit those modules then.

Wouldn't do much about macros though.

1. Click on survey module.
2. Match text results
3. Target and mine ABCs.
4. Profit

Mavi Gioia
Posted - 2011.03.08 10:56:00 - [324]
 

http://www.evenews24.com/2010/12/08/rmt-uncovered-the-interview/

I want 1.2 trillion isk or 55 thousand euros. Why should I play the game properly, without cheating, when it's possible to bot my way into being an Eve trillionaire in 9 months?


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