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CCP Fallout

Posted - 2010.12.13 15:50:00 - [1]
 

In his new dev blog, GM Grimmi discusses the ongoing efforts of Unholy Rage and the continued work towards removing macroers from the game and how we continue to work against real money transfers (RMT).

iP0D
Posted - 2010.12.13 15:54:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: iP0D on 13/12/2010 15:58:03
Do you realise how close the relationship is between patterns of game design and factors that give way to botting over the past few years?

The impact of removal of 30 and 90 day GTC codes? The impact of pushing PLEX purchases directly as the most visible method directly from CCP?

The competition faced in many niches against the in game impact of organised RMT?

How RMT has changed over the years, largely because of game design and GTC/PLEX changes?

How organised RMT simply sidesteps the EULA?

Just out of curiosity.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.12.13 15:55:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 13/12/2010 15:56:25
The cancer is in item and ship sales - especially of super capitals, rather than in ISK trade. When it's $700 for a supercarrier and a titan, who on earth is going to pay $2,916 for PLEXs for the ISK you'd need to buy them?

This devblog shows what some of us have been saying all along about the post Unholy Rage RMT fight; you guys are looking in all the wrong places.

Weltact
INVICTUS.
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:03:00 - [4]
 

If you still think it is about belts getting sucked dry by botters for rmt, you've got more problems than you think. Things have changed dramatically. That symptom is an extension of resource acquisition patterns as in game complexity, time consumption and volume variables of organisations have grown dramatically.

Ever wondered where the insane influx of ISK that led to the statements at the CSM visits of "the EVE economy is badly managed" and "the EVE economy contains too much ISK" comes from? Go look at the drone regions, 0.0 NPC space ratting and missioning.

Ever wondered why it is that so many new subscribers that come in from other MMO's come in with an acceptance of botting, and how this is reinforced by patterns of game design?

Things have changed. Hard. And looking at it from the outside is no longer a luxury you can afford.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:04:00 - [5]
 

Came expecting news on a crackdown on drone region macro alliances, super capital rmt rings, game design changes, public humiliation of the PI team.

Left disappointed. You don't even have graphs, let alone good news.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:06:00 - [6]
 

Is it true or untrue that CCP is the largest RMTgroup making money?

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:09:00 - [7]
 

Have you considered implementing something like Punkbuster to stop python injections used by more and more bots?

iP0D
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:12:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Have you considered implementing something like Punkbuster to stop python injections used by more and more bots?


That's a bit of an arms race which is unlikely for them to really maintain. It requires a hell of a lot of effort into behing ahead of the curves, and requires anyway to get down and dirty in dealing with the origins of such crap like python injection.

Think of it, they still seem to think that PLEX is an instrument in fighting RMT without looking at what keeps PLEX the default instrument and more expensive than RMT supply (ISK and ITEMS) and that higher PLEX ISK prices would be good for the economy since that has too much ISK ....

Things have changed, a lot.

Garr Anders
Minmatar
The Red Circle Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:15:00 - [9]
 

Quote:
Hundreds of accounts are banned every week for macro use and other RMT related activities


Would it be possible to see a graph with (banned accounts) over (time)?

protohuman
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:16:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
You don't even have graphs, let alone good news.


Graphs, news ? A blog without numbers !

Jarod Garamonde
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:19:00 - [11]
 

I rather like the PLEX system. When I don't have many IRL expenses, I've bought PLEX to make some ISK off it. When I'm too IRL poor to pay the subscription, I've dipped into my ISK to keep my account active. It all balances out.
Though I do wish PLEX and monthly subscription were cheaper... but, hey.... you guys gotta make money, too.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:20:00 - [12]
 

Look, guys (speaking to CCP) this isn't rocket science. All you need to find the macros is the Dotlan report of system activity that shows levels of NPC kills in backwater systems that are at a rate that couldn't be kept up by a human at the keyboard actually playing the game.

EVERYONE knows which sov holding alliances are funded by bots and RMT. Why doesn't CCP?

Or do you lack the guts?

It needs to be noted here that CCP makes more money off the Plex-funded accounts of botters and RMT'ers (over $17 a month vs $15) so their hands aren't clean on this.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:28:00 - [13]
 

Look, guys (speaking to CCP) this isn't rocket science. All you need to find the macros is the Dotlan report of system activity that shows levels of NPC kills in backwater systems that are at a rate that couldn't be kept up by a human at the keyboard actually playing the game.

EVERYONE knows which sov holding alliances are funded by bots and RMT. Why doesn't CCP?

Or do you lack the guts?

It needs to be noted here that CCP makes more money off the Plex-funded accounts of botters and RMT'ers (over $17 a month vs $15) so their hands aren't clean on this.

Also this is one of the weakest Dev blog posts ever, there is nothing in it substantive about what is happening, it is nothing but damage control to try to make us believe you are doing something in the wake of recent devastating revelations as to the scale of botting and RMT'ing going on in this game.

You need to do behavior monitoring. Bots give themselves away by their regularity. We need a "report macro'er" function as well. And, alliances that are clearly shielding bots and RMT need to be punished and their leadership permabanned.

It's funny, I remarked on another message board that CCP wouldn't take this seriously until we got angry about it and raged on the forums like we did about fight lag. This is not good, CCP, you should be proactively looking into problems like this, it shouldn't take us getting ****ed off and flaming the crap out of you and your management to get a response or action.

SkinSin
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:29:00 - [14]
 

Well I read the devblog and the gist of it was:

1) We know about RMT.
2) We continue to do something about it.
3) Buy plex.

It was a particularly unenlightening devblog and didn't add any more information than we already know. To be honest, GM Grimmi might as well have not bothered it was that pointless!

Firartix
Sense of Serendipity
Echoes of Nowhere
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:29:00 - [15]
 

HEY!

I got a serious question here.

I always thought Macro'ing was authorized on EVE... i recall seeing blogs and posts of people that would sometimes get banned because of that by mistake but after some research and GM asking etc would in the end get told the contrary.
I don't see why people doing macro-account management using virtual machine stuff from tied keyboard/mouses should be banned... i mean, it's kindda a part of EVE - just like people using 5 accounts to achieve incredible mining results (i mined with one of them yesterday actually...)

So while i'm perfectly okay with banning anything like bots, RMT, or automated stuff, why ban macroers ? I don't really get it...

Joao Neto
Gallente
Friends Fleet
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:35:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Joao Neto on 13/12/2010 16:36:09
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 13/12/2010 15:56:25
The cancer is in item and ship sales - especially of super capitals, rather than in ISK trade. When it's $700 for a supercarrier and a titan, who on earth is going to pay $2,916 for PLEXs for the ISK you'd need to buy them?


You shouldn't even be allowed to pay for that in the first place. While that scenario is true, and has already been accomplished by some, it is completely stupid that you are allowed to do so. That is actually some sort of 'microtransaction', in which you pay to get more out of the game... except you should forget the 'micro' part.

There should be a hard limit of how many PLEXs you can sell per day, or "cannot sell plex if you have over 1B in your wallet"... else it is just plain dumb.

PLEX is for people that have little to no time to play, as stated in the blog. Over the past 3 months, I have played less than 10 hours, so it would justify buying a single plex to get some instant fun... buying PLEX just because I want a Titan next week... plain dumb.

--------------------

To others:
CCP gains almost nothing with PLEX. Someone pays them $15, and someone else will get 30 days of game time. They are a company and they have to pay to maintain the programmers, hamsters, etc.

--------------------

Thanks for the dev blog, and good luck. I hope you can eliminate all RMT from the game, or at least fix the PLEX issues.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:38:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Joao Neto
CCP gains almost nothing with PLEX. Someone pays them $15, and someone else will get 30 days of game time. They are a company and they have to pay to maintain the programmers, hamsters, etc.


Someone pays CCP $17.50 per plex and someone gets 30 days of gametime that one particular player can't pay for. CCP gets all the benefits of an ordinary subscription with an extra $2.50 per month on top of it. There is no loss here, at all.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:38:00 - [18]
 

I am sure the CSM will have substantive questions to ask regarding RMT and botting at the summit this week, and we look forward to informative answers that reflect the intense interest of the players in this topic.

Dogo Duma
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:47:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I am sure the CSM will have substantive questions to ask regarding RMT and botting at the summit this week, and we look forward to informative answers that reflect the intense interest of the players in this topic.



That's an interesting way of saying the gloves are off Very Happy

Good luck.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:50:00 - [20]
 

Agree with IPOD.

It appears that all your efforts are conducted from the outside looking in. Might help to play your own game, CCP; infiltrate the major alliances and gather evidence firsthand about the RMT'ing of supercaps. If players can do it (and they have), so can you. And then you can act accordingly instead of doing nothing because "hearsay", "the logs show nothing", and "but we can't do anything about stuff that happens on third party sites".

THAT is the kind of proactive behavior I want to hear that you're engaging in to stomp RMT into the ground.



Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:51:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Dogo Duma
That's an interesting way of saying the gloves are off Very Happy


The gloves need to come off, after CCP posts a dev blog with no real content at all.

Master Akira
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:58:00 - [22]
 

So, this is CCP trying to calm down people before rage ensues, right?

doesn't seems to be working very well Laughing


Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:58:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Razin on 13/12/2010 16:58:39

Does CCP plan to give players the tools to be able to police the 0.0, at least? I mean we need delayed local and reworked scanning. You've been talking about this for YEARS. It's about time.

Dogo Duma
Posted - 2010.12.13 17:00:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Razin
Edited by: Razin on 13/12/2010 16:58:39

Does CCP plan to give players the tools to be able to police the 0.0, at least? I mean we need delayed local and reworked scanning. You've been talking about this for YEARS. It's about time.


Don't be silly. Bots read system status and arrival of pilots from the client directly. Delayed local is simply an old excuse of pilots who can't face a bit of effort to deal with other human pilots. To deal with bots, CCP needs to kick game design in the behind in many, many, many ways.


Vespoi Filar
Posted - 2010.12.13 17:04:00 - [25]
 

Came expecting some epic thread regarding botting.

Left with standard RMT/buy Plex drivel.

NOW COMPLETELY ****ED OFF!

Smoke Adian
Caldari
League of Gentlemen
Posted - 2010.12.13 17:05:00 - [26]
 

In light of the recent EVE News articles, this dev blog is pretty meh. Team "We're Mildly Annoyed" is basically as effective as Pakistan against the Taliban.

Some Tableau
Posted - 2010.12.13 17:05:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Razin


Does CCP plan to give players the tools to be able to police the 0.0, at least? I mean we need delayed local and reworked scanning. You've been talking about this for YEARS. It's about time.


Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.12.13 17:09:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Some Tableau
Originally by: Razin


Does CCP plan to give players the tools to be able to police the 0.0, at least? I mean we need delayed local and reworked scanning. You've been talking about this for YEARS. It's about time.


Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx


That post coming from an xxDeathxx member, an alliance which all reports indicate exists almost solely to conduct RMT, is absolutely hilarious.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2010.12.13 17:13:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Razin on 13/12/2010 17:13:35
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Some Tableau
Originally by: Razin


Does CCP plan to give players the tools to be able to police the 0.0, at least? I mean we need delayed local and reworked scanning. You've been talking about this for YEARS. It's about time.


Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx


That post coming from an xxDeathxx member, an alliance which all reports indicate exists almost solely to conduct RMT, is absolutely hilarious.
Man up and provide some proof or STFU.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.12.13 17:17:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Razin
Edited by: Razin on 13/12/2010 17:13:35
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Some Tableau
Originally by: Razin


Does CCP plan to give players the tools to be able to police the 0.0, at least? I mean we need delayed local and reworked scanning. You've been talking about this for YEARS. It's about time.


Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx


That post coming from an xxDeathxx member, an alliance which all reports indicate exists almost solely to conduct RMT, is absolutely hilarious.
Man up and provide some proof or STFU.


How about the 12 billion ISK a week per system, an amount impossible to meet without botting, that you were charging a few months back, for starters?


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