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Del Theur
Posted - 2010.12.13 10:17:00 - [1]
 

question about the cultures. which one could be considered the "right" faction to eve?

The amarr are more religion than say conservative. caldari are a "working" communist nation emphasis on working!Rolling Eyes
the gallante states repeatively that its "progressive" maybe im honing in on the work too much but with the capitalist-communist in the left corner i dont think so.

So that would leave the minmatar with its republic and tribal society. Are the tribals similar to state right argument?

either way. Flame me.Arrow

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.12.13 10:34:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Del Theur
question about the cultures. which one could be considered the "right" faction to eve?

The amarr are more religion than say conservative. caldari are a "working" communist nation emphasis on working!Rolling Eyes
the gallante states repeatively that its "progressive" maybe im honing in on the work too much but with the capitalist-communist in the left corner i dont think so.

So that would leave the minmatar with its republic and tribal society. Are the tribals similar to state right argument?

either way. Flame me.Arrow


I can't flame you because what you are asking is unclear. I guess that was a flame.

Nishachara
True Enlightenment
Posted - 2010.12.13 13:23:00 - [3]
 

I never thought about chi...ehm caldari as a communist state, coz they have very capitalistic stance imo, but yes compared with some RL capitalistic/communist countries they could fit into that category.

And as for minies...imo they are group of tribes working together for a common goal.
Imagine south american native indian tribes along with ..hmm lets say (there are not much tribal cultures left in RL on earth unfortunatly :( ...) some african tribes in an union of some sort.
At least in that way i imagine them...

If i understand your question correctly that is...

Esna Pitoojee
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2010.12.13 15:08:00 - [4]
 

There really is no "right" faction in EVE. It's case of Grey and Grey moraliy - Yes, the Amarr Empire's methods are horrific by modern standards, but they're the farthest along towards actually uniting the cluster in peace.

The Gallente are all about freedom, openness, and idealism... except if you disagree with them, in which case they'll bomb your homeworld.

The Minmatar are generally more accepting, but have this little thing for exiling people (or worse) based on a tattoo that appears on their skin, not to mention a rather religiously intolerant saide they've been showing lately and the fact they've been hinted in the past to be somewhat hostile to members of other tribes.


So yeah.. fact of the matter is nobody in EVE is "right".

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.13 15:10:00 - [5]
 

The Caldari State is corporatist, not communist.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.13 15:54:00 - [6]
 


This is my take on things, Political Compass of Eve Factions.

Gallente, Social liberals, economics individual wealth (right wing).
Caldari, Social authoritarians, economics individual wealth (right wing).
Minmatar, Social liberals, collective ownership economics.
Amarr, Social authoritarians, collective ownership economics.

Sergei Le'Poof
Posted - 2010.12.14 04:10:00 - [7]
 

Caldari: Meritocracy. Contemporary real world examples: not much really but think of a feudal Japan with the various clans representing the major corps all competing for power but uniting against external enemy. Ancient examples: Sparta in terms of mentality (for the good of the many). Most likely: fusion of Japanese and Scandinavian mentality (names are fusion of japan/finland)

Amarr: Theocracy. Contemporary real world examples: Borderline religious fundamentalists (with lazors) like what USA would become if dubya had his way. Ancient examples: Roman empire and Persian empire. Most likely: fusion of Holy roman empire and persia (names are mostly persian, religion points to cristianity)

Gallente: Democracy. Contemporary real world examples: USA with its pros and cons. Ancient examples: Athens or Republic of rome. (names are of a french/greek fusion)

Minmatar: Tribal. Contemporary real world examples: I would say federate states of micronesia or polynesia. Ancient examples: not really ancient but older would be the Iroquois five and six nations. Further back vikings. (names do appear nordic)

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.12.14 04:24:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Sergei Le'Poof

Amarr: Theocracy. Contemporary real world examples: Borderline religious fundamentalists (with lazors) like what USA would become if dubya had his way. Ancient examples: Roman empire and Persian empire. Most likely: fusion of Holy roman empire and persia (names are mostly persian, religion points to cristianity)



The Roman Empire was not a theocracy as we currently understand the term, and certainly was not comparable to the religiosity of the Amarr empire as described in the fiction. The Romans were highly tolerant of other religions, so long as no god was put before the emperor.

Honorius Vitellius
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.14 04:52:00 - [9]
 

I think the poster was referring to the Roman Empire after the reign of Constantine the Great. In the later phase of the empire, when Christianity had become the state religion, there was a period where the emperor was regarded/functioned as a sort of stand-in for God on earth. This largely remained the case in the Eastern part of the empire (the Byzantine Empire) through the Middle Ages. The Holy Roman Empire (the supposed resurrected form of the empire in the West) had to undergo centuries of conflicts between the emperors and the popes on this issue.

It seems to me that the Amarr empire follows the Late Roman/Byzantine model more than it does the medieval Holy Roman Empire.

Of course, someone could bring up Germanic models of sacred kingship and make quite a few valid points...

Jentisis Kortican
Posted - 2010.12.14 05:40:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari

This is my take on things, Political Compass of Eve Factions.

Gallente, Social liberals, economics individual wealth (right wing).
Caldari, Social authoritarians, economics individual wealth (right wing).
Minmatar, Social liberals, collective ownership economics.
Amarr, Social authoritarians, collective ownership economics.



i never really agreed with the four square political chart. ive never seen a leftist regime that didnt make the people utterly reliant on the state.

though always "hip" so say that right wingers are social authoritarians, texas has one of the most "go do wtf you want" policies hence why there are so many secs off in the backwoods. Social authoritarians are leftwingers i.e. che.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.12.14 11:03:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 14/12/2010 11:04:32
Originally by: Jentisis Kortican
Originally by: Wyke Mossari

This is my take on things, Political Compass of Eve Factions.

Gallente, Social liberals, economics individual wealth (right wing).
Caldari, Social authoritarians, economics individual wealth (right wing).
Minmatar, Social liberals, collective ownership economics.
Amarr, Social authoritarians, collective ownership economics.



i never really agreed with the four square political chart. ive never seen a leftist regime that didnt make the people utterly reliant on the state.

though always "hip" so say that right wingers are social authoritarians, texas has one of the most "go do wtf you want" policies hence why there are so many secs off in the backwoods. Social authoritarians are leftwingers i.e. che.


The term for it in Texas is the "self help" policy. Texas is a "self help" state.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.14 12:39:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 14/12/2010 13:31:40

Originally by: Jentisis Kortican
Originally by: Wyke Mossari

This is my take on things, Political Compass of Eve Factions.

Gallente, Social liberals, economics individual wealth (right wing).
Caldari, Social authoritarians, economics individual wealth (right wing).
Minmatar, Social liberals, collective ownership economics.
Amarr, Social authoritarians, collective ownership economics.



i never really agreed with the four square political chart. ive never seen a leftist regime that didnt make the people utterly reliant on the state.

though always "hip" so say that right wingers are social authoritarians, texas has one of the most "go do wtf you want" policies hence why there are so many secs off in the backwoods. Social authoritarians are leftwingers i.e. che.


The libertarian left are vary rare, perhaps even none existent in practice. However they are theoretically possible and I've had interesting discussions about that real world rarity in the past. It boils down to the question does the power afforded by personal property subsume the liberty of others. Unfortunately getting into that discussion would be increasingly off topic for this forum.

I actually expected to have to defend my assessment of the Amarr rather than my assessment of the Minmatar. That Amarr assessment assessment basically rests the facts that even true blood Amarr are 'holders' not 'owners' and they are still entirely beholden to their superiors, and even slaves have all their needs satisfied by the Holders, as proxies for the state.

A few other thoughts.

Undoubtedly Sansha would be at the extreme top (authoritarian) but are they economically left or right. My initial thoughts was that Kuvakei would be extremely right. However once you consider the 'oneness' of nation, the idea of personal property is absolutely anachronistic and I became much less convinced, my conclusion is they are actually at the extreme top left.

In contrast I see the Jove as extremely social libertarians, but continue struggling to place them on the economic axis.

-- edit for grammar & clarity --

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.12.14 13:12:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari

In contrast I see the Jove as extremely social libertarians, but struggling to place them economic axis.




Their technology may be to the point where economics, ownership is useless. One thing that surprises me about EVE is the lack of desktop factories, or home rapid prototypers, or 3D printers, whichever name you prefer. You have them on the industrial scale, which is how pod pilots make their ships and what not, but you don't really hear about them on the personal scale. The Jove might have them, making property obsolete, being that anyone can make just about anything. Or perhaps their economy is an arcane form of barter, being based totally on knowledge.

Jentisis Kortican
Posted - 2010.12.18 01:31:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 14/12/2010 13:31:40

Originally by: Jentisis Kortican
Originally by: Wyke Mossari

This is my take on things, Political Compass of Eve Factions.

Gallente, Social liberals, economics individual wealth (right wing).
Caldari, Social authoritarians, economics individual wealth (right wing).
Minmatar, Social liberals, collective ownership economics.
Amarr, Social authoritarians, collective ownership economics.



i never really agreed with the four square political chart. ive never seen a leftist regime that didnt make the people utterly reliant on the state.

though always "hip" so say that right wingers are social authoritarians, texas has one of the most "go do wtf you want" policies hence why there are so many secs off in the backwoods. Social authoritarians are leftwingers i.e. che.


The libertarian left are vary rare, perhaps even none existent in practice. However they are theoretically possible and I've had interesting discussions about that real world rarity in the past. It boils down to the question does the power afforded by personal property subsume the liberty of others. Unfortunately getting into that discussion would be increasingly off topic for this forum.

I actually expected to have to defend my assessment of the Amarr rather than my assessment of the Minmatar. That Amarr assessment assessment basically rests the facts that even true blood Amarr are 'holders' not 'owners' and they are still entirely beholden to their superiors, and even slaves have all their needs satisfied by the Holders, as proxies for the state.

A few other thoughts.

Undoubtedly Sansha would be at the extreme top (authoritarian) but are they economically left or right. My initial thoughts was that Kuvakei would be extremely right. However once you consider the 'oneness' of nation, the idea of personal property is absolutely anachronistic and I became much less convinced, my conclusion is they are actually at the extreme top left.

In contrast I see the Jove as extremely social libertarians, but continue struggling to place them on the economic axis.

-- edit for grammar & clarity --


its funny how we get hung up on liberty. i find left libertarians to be odd. private property trampling the rights of the people around him therefore no one must be allowed to have it thus a body of power must ensure no one owns anything. sounds more communist to me and not actually libertarian. stretching liberty to mean totalitarianism is the ever presnt play on words that leftist use.

Slave 314
Posted - 2010.12.18 08:43:00 - [15]
 

"Right"? As in who is right as far as how a society should exist? I nominate Star Fraction. Anarcho-capitalism FTMFW.

Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2010.12.18 12:56:00 - [16]
 

The Federation has had a 'welfare state' before...it varies between social democratic to laissez-faire

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.12.19 00:20:00 - [17]
 

Are people seriously trying to place Sansha on the current chart of left/right regarding contemporary politics? They're a mind-controlled hive, ffs. Rogue drones probably have more relevance to our modern conceptions of individual liberty.

As far as the rest of it, the chronicles have left the societies of Eve completely silly. The Minmatar are a "tribal" society that spans multiple planets and hundreds of billions of people? The Gallente are "freedom loving" but apparently the state has the right to grab people off the street and torture them to death? And the Amarr society is based on slavery, in a world where automation technology is ubiquitous. All of it senseless. The Eve world, like many sci-fi game worlds, makes zero sense.


 

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