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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2010.12.15 08:00:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 15/12/2010 08:00:24
Originally by: Bobbeh

Trust me when i say this, They are not going to;
Lower Jump Ranges
Make it Harder to Move Capitals
Make Cynos limit ships
Make A delay for jumping to a cyno
Make Caps Appear at random spots in space on purpose.


The odds are against you being right.

Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.12.15 08:09:00 - [62]
 

How do you figure? because Carebear army deams it so?

They made a new SC with increased range.

Reducing ships to come through cyno just means more cynos thats it.

Popping caps up in random locations in space doesnt make sense unless you have a partial lock on the cyno as it collaspes when you jump. As right now jump drives instantly lock onto the cyno, accurate within 5000m's

And if they made cynos open and take 30seconds before you could jump to them you'd never beable to get off a combat cyno. you'd get alpha'd. As it stands right now you still get alpha'd and first carrier through usually redrops the cyno.

im all for the local grid cyno jammers

But would the **** carebears stay away from ships they know very little to nothing about. Just cause people are throwing around some carriers in lowsec doesnt mean omg nerf it means find a friend with a few sc's and hot drop them yourself and laugh when they whine.

there is no reason for any of this to happen.

Living in 0.0 you constantly deal with hotdrops and you know what half the time you kill the hot droppers if they arent careful.

a hot drop is lawls to a nano gang or a frigate gang or even a BC gang as they will take FOREVER to lock you.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.15 09:22:00 - [63]
 

Maybe you then should use sturdier cyno ships. It is just ridiculous that i can move 1.5 regions with my carrier with a single mouse click, while that same distance would take a BS at least half an hour, and in a normal fleet 45 minutes is more realistic. It is ridiculous that a far larger ship does that far faster, and that unbalances it. You cannot scout against it, the only thing you can do against it is metagaming.

And with my normal carrier i can then move 3 regions in about 2 minutes, jumping, waiting session timer, docking, undocking, waiting session timer, jumping. That just promotes blobbing and is ridiculous compared to how long a battleship, or hell even an interceptor, requires to travel that same distance.

If you cant keep a cyno ship 30 seconds alive to get in your own caps you are doing it horribly wrong. Idea: go to preferably a POS, but safespot is also possible, with your fleet, let a damnation light the cyno. Even if all hostiles would immediatly warp to the cyno (hint: especially in 0.0 you just deploy bubble at correct location and you gank everyone incoming), it is highly doubtfull they would be on grid in 30 seconds, chance they gank a damnation in that time is 0, chance they gank a damnation with guardian support is zero.

But but, then i cant travel riskfree with my cap by only using an expandable cyno frig: deal with it, htfu, etc.

Niquita Serov
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.15 12:50:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: masternerdguy
no!

the jump mechanic is perfect

Jump mechanic needs a fix. Its perfect for safe PvP on the cyno'ers side. PvP is not supposed to be safe. Next.


uh last time I checked, jumping your giant target into a group of hostile ships is far from safe.

M4cr0 Min3r
Posted - 2010.12.15 14:49:00 - [65]
 

Limit numbers that can jump to a cyno, so u need more cynos for a massive fleet?
Delay between lighting cyno and being able to jump, so killing the cynoship can stop the jump?

Tho what eve really needs is a "balance fight" option. You right click, select balance fight, excess enemy ships are deleted, and each player receives a mail telling them to grow a pair and stop blobbing Twisted Evil.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2010.12.15 15:11:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Bobbeh
They made a new SC with increased range.

so it is balanced with regard to existing capitals (and can match carrier range IIRC). If ccp want to nerf jump ranges by y%, it is then easier for them to keep them in sync with each other.

Originally by: Bobbeh
Reducing ships to come through cyno just means more cynos thats it.
It would increase the effort required in "blob" tactics. "More guns" is never a bad decision in Eve, but there should always be a downside to any particular tactic. My gut thoughts on mass per current cyno (no numbers crunched- it may require mass/agility adjustments to ships)
  • 1x titan
  • 2x SC
  • 6x carrier
  • 8x dread
  • etc

Originally by: Bobbeh
Popping caps up in random locations in space doesnt make sense unless you have a partial lock on the cyno as it collaspes when you jump.

Agreed- you could say that the beacon starts the star resonating or some other fluff, but it doesn't really hold water.
Originally by: Bobbeh
As right now jump drives instantly lock onto the cyno, accurate within 5000m's

would increasing this to, say, 50km change things enough for people? Different sizes having different fitting reqs and different accuracies could mix things up for the better
Originally by: Bobbeh
And if they made cynos open and take 30seconds before you could jump to them you'd never beable to get off a combat cyno.

Is that necessarily a bad thing? having to assemble your fleet in-system then warp into a fight doesn't sound unreasonable. I'd prefer a spool-up or travel time applied to the jump engine rather than the cyno personally, though.
Originally by: Bobbeh
Just cause people are throwing around some carriers in lowsec doesnt mean omg nerf it means find a friend with a few sc's and hot drop them yourself and laugh when they whine.

So get a bigger blob than them to win.Rolling Eyes Game mechanics need to provide diminishing returns when it comes to fleets, so, while it is better to have a bigger fleet (more alpha), the effort required also goes up, to the point where people decide "we can do this a better way"
Originally by: Bobbeh
a hot drop is lawls to a nano gang or a frigate gang or even a BC gang as they will take FOREVER to lock you.

That works for escaping the hotdrop, but to actually kill them?

cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
White Noise.
Posted - 2010.12.15 15:43:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Maybe you then should use sturdier cyno ships. It is just ridiculous that i can move 1.5 regions with my carrier with a single mouse click, while that same distance would take a BS at least half an hour, and in a normal fleet 45 minutes is more realistic. It is ridiculous that a far larger ship does that far faster, and that unbalances it. You cannot scout against it, the only thing you can do against it is metagaming.

And with my normal carrier i can then move 3 regions in about 2 minutes, jumping, waiting session timer, docking, undocking, waiting session timer, jumping. That just promotes blobbing and is ridiculous compared to how long a battleship, or hell even an interceptor, requires to travel that same distance.

If you cant keep a cyno ship 30 seconds alive to get in your own caps you are doing it horribly wrong. Idea: go to preferably a POS, but safespot is also possible, with your fleet, let a damnation light the cyno. Even if all hostiles would immediatly warp to the cyno (hint: especially in 0.0 you just deploy bubble at correct location and you gank everyone incoming), it is highly doubtfull they would be on grid in 30 seconds, chance they gank a damnation in that time is 0, chance they gank a damnation with guardian support is zero.

But but, then i cant travel riskfree with my cap by only using an expandable cyno frig: deal with it, htfu, etc.


htfu yourself, lets see you keep your cyno ship alive agenst the blobs we have now if you have to wait 30 seconds.

p.s. when the hell did eve online turn into whine on line.

Daedalus Arcova
Gallente
Havoc Violence and Chaos
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.12.15 16:11:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Daedalus Arcova on 15/12/2010 16:14:25
Originally by: Jan'z Kolna
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Being able to jam a cyno is an obvious counter.

seems like clear-cut role for another type of interdictor- this one preventing not warping , but jumping



Alternatively, this:

- Give Interdictors a new kind of Interdiction Probe (which should be bulky and expensive) and Heavy Interdictors a new kind of interdiction script (which should also be very expensive), that allows them to temporarily jam cynos in their AOE. Interdicting the cyno would prevent jump-capable ships from locking the cyno, instead of preventing the cyno from going up in the first place as a Cyno Jammer would do.
- Give Cynos a short charge-up time (no beacon, but ship is stationary and obviously about to light a cyno). Cyno would still power up and activate until ship destroyed as before. This would give time for those dictors and hictors to switch probes/scripts and get in range to jam the cyno before capitals can start jumping. Or, to just kill the cyno ship.

Regarding range, Capital jump range should stay as it is. The only nerf which might be justified is limiting the range that caps can jump directly into combat. My solution to that problem would be the introduction of different sizes of cynos. Small cynos would only be easy to fit and have a short charge-time but only be lockable within a short range; while the largest cynos would be battleship sized, have long charge-ups, and locked from anywhere within jump range.

An existing T1 frigate could get an extra fitting bonus to allow it to use larger cynos, and a shorter charge-up timer. This would still allow disposable T1 frigates to be used for long-range logistical cynoing, but impractical for hot-drops since they would just get killed before the cyno could finish charging up.

Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:18:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Stuff


Yea so thats awesome, Recons would be worthless cause well they get the cyno bonus and even a pos can't save them from a few bombers, or a couple sniper bs.

Not to mention your looking at it in the eyes of a defensive fleet not an offensive fleet. n2m your a f**king R tard, there are places in eve caps can't go even with their jump range, check the Branch to Deklein gap, or the Drone Gap, or the Cobalt Edge to Tenal Gap. Caps have jump drives that allow them to cross great distances and in small compressed regions it can be alot of jumps but in larger longer regions you may need 2 cynos to cross the thing when its like 5 gates. Each cyno would take 10 minutes in a non recon or 5 minutes each in a recon.

You are obviously not a Cap pilot the majority of the time as i have several toons that fly caps, for combat and logistics. Also if you think a deathstar can kill a good fleet you are truly ******ed. Pos's dont kill things they just help and only if they have gunners.

Im sorry you dont like meta gaming but even CCP admits its part of the game so get used to it. or heres a thought put eyes in their staging systems then you know when they are forming caps... Just a thought. But hey in FW, caps are OP.... AMIRIGHT!

You want them to nerf caps because people are using them to PvP and you don't like it, yea that sounds fair. Hey CCP they hot dropped us and we couldnt counter it, can you nerf it so this cant happen. Hey CCP they did it again, please nerf it i dont wanna fit my gang to counter hot drops.

If someone wants to jump multiple billons into a pvp environment where they dont know if you have a hot drop waiting or if PL or another entity is near by with Supers. That is risky and ballzy sometimes it pays off some times you lose everything.

Grow some ballz and learn that PvP isnt a sure thing, isnt fair, isnt balanced, and isnt predictable. Its Free lowing ever changing and always about who is fit to counter what.

Originally by: Glyken Touchon

so it is balanced with regard to existing capitals (and can match carrier range IIRC). If ccp want to nerf jump ranges by y%, it is then easier for them to keep them in sync with each other.
Ok so if they reduce the Jump range, No Capital will beable to jump from deklein to branch, cept cali 5 carriers, well there goes jf's to branch. Or Geminate/Vale to Kala Vale or most places along the Drone Gap. Awesome one swoop they've ****ed of a third of 0.0 players, who cannot now supply their own space with capitals, effectively.

Originally by: Glyken Touchon
.It would increase the effort required in "blob" tactics. "More guns" is never a bad decision in Eve, but there should always be a downside to any particular tactic.

Why should their be, Why should bringing more ships be a bad thing? Name any Logic Behind that any actual reasoning why. Space doesnt have a mass limit, if you have friends that wanna come why cant they. Stop giving the fair Fight argument War isnt Fair, ask iraq about it, the US didnt bring equal numbers, and wouldnt be punished for bringing more.

50k away from cyno means caps could essentially spawn 100k from eachother so no, thats outa dock range, outa rep range, out of pos shields, basically this would eliminate the cyno as a tactical weapon because to actually use it you'd need to cyno 200k away from target so that all ships could warp to it, at which pont caps would be tackled and not in warp range of eachother. Risk vs reward of Hot drop is removed.

Yes that does sound unreasonable cause by the time everyone is jumped in and on grid and loaded and in warp 60 seconds have already elapsed pluse the 30 second warning before you could jump. giving the enemy a minute and a half to gtfo, or prepare. The surprise factor of the Hot drop is lost.

Bigger Blob does win except when your using a counter fleet. CR V LR, Drakes V AHAC, so on and so forth. Theres no logical reason to.... Continued in next post

Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:38:00 - [70]
 

Logically Limit the number of ships a corp/alliance/coalition can field wheres the RP/ Logic/Reasoning behind it. Unless they made it so you couldnt shoot a target that was occluded by an object as in a friendly ship or hostile ship. But then they'd have to add formations.

To actually Kill Hot drops bring neuting BS as i said 5 carriers vs 5 or 6 Neuting BS and a normal gang, you'll wtf R*pe them silly. Small **** kills fighters and drones large **** targets carriers neuters neut out all carriers and jammers jam carriers. Done and Done.
If they Drop 10 carriers on a Small Gang Kite their Fighters away and kill them, teach them to do that again costs alot to replace a full flight of fighters specially when you dont get kms and you gotta wait to cap back up.


there is no way in eve to limit the number of people/ships/ toons in an engagement because any ship limit would be abused, by people and they would fill a system with blues and laugh when the hostiles cant get in. Diminishing returns on Ships would result in SEVERAL small fleets instead of one large fleet all on the same comms and on the same grid. UNless it was grid based diminishing returns then i'd just look at your 100 and bring 500, because your 100 will be reduced by the same percent as my 500 so say it reduced by a 5th i would then have 100 to your 20. So fleet diminishing wouldnt work, grid diminishing wouldnt work, System Diminishing wouldnt work.

n2m how the f*ck can you explain it he has 5 zealots i have 10 zealots but because i have double his number mine do 20# less dps.... WHAT how the f*ck does that work.

Im all for a BC sized interdictor with local cyno jamming capabilities say jams cynos up to 250k in all directions, Except Black ops cynos cause it would give black ops a purpose. Jump in a gank squad of black ops to down the interdictor and have a recon on grid waiting to cyno up.

M4cr0: PvP is never balanced and Shouldnt be balance or it would be boring. In its current form if you have reinforcements you could be losing but end up winning. Go back to Highsec.

Any Change to Size of Cyno mod's makes Recon ships Basically Useless as you would require a ship with relatively no tank to tank for 30 seconds to a minute, or just ignore their bonus and give the job to someone else.

Honestly i fail to see a problem that is being addressed by this thread. If your getting Hot dropped and dieing and your not in 0.0 your terrible cause there are no bubbles. If your getting hotdropped in 0.0, use bubbles and fit to kill caps. If your getting hot dropped in lowsec fit to kill caps and lawl at them.

Hot drops are risk vs Reward, Risk billions for a few kms. Its not Easy its not Safe and its not fun when something goes wrong.

so you tackle a lone abaddon on a gate and you have him in half armor in lowsec when he starts repping tackles 2 people and lights a cyno. Obvious bait is obvious for 1, for 2 make distance and try and kill him, if you cant make distance and laugh cause they just spend millions on fuel and got no kills.

Blobbing is a tactic and hotdropping is a tactic.
Stop trying to get them nerfd cause you cant come up with a way to fight 100 with 20. (unless your bombers)

Simply Put Its eve its a sand box and its no easy.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:59:00 - [71]
 

Eve is still a game. RL rules should not always apply. It still needs to be fun for all involved, not just the powerblocs.

I think that cynos should be strategic, rather than tactical.

for a strategic advantage (get in the same ball-park) use a jump drive.
for a tactical advantage, just get a good warp-in point.

Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:06:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Bobbeh on 15/12/2010 21:12:03
Originally by: Glyken Touchon
Eve is still a game. RL rules should not always apply. It still needs to be fun for all involved, not just the powerblocs.

I think that cynos should be strategic, rather than tactical.

for a strategic advantage (get in the same ball-park) use a jump drive.
for a tactical advantage, just get a good warp-in point.


Yes eve is a game, but it should be just as fun for the power bloc alliances as the small corps. And if my corp of 200 isnt allowed to field a full fleet cause the enemy is not as capable thats not cool. We wanna fly with our friends and have a good time aswell just cause we out number them doesnt mean we should be punished.Basically in your opinion an alliance of 300 should beable to beat an alliance of 3100? How would that make sense. If the 300 man alliance sbu'd a station owned by the 3100 man alliance dont you think the 3100 man alliance would bring its biggest fleet. not go oh look they have 75 coming our way ok guys i need 74 guys in fleet now the rest of you can go home... F*ck no they'd be like good we have 200 we wont be losing a station today

npc 0.0 is perfect for small entities.as is renting.

Since your locking your jump drive onto a specific point in space why wouldnt it be accurate.



Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:35:00 - [73]
 

If cyno jammer is implemented as a new specialized ship - like HICs, then it would only be fair if cyno generator also required a specialized ship. Make only recons be able to fit cynos.

As it is now, if any noob in a throw away Kestrel can light a cyno, there better be a counter that's just as easy to use.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:01:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Bobbeh
Since your locking your jump drive onto a specific point in space why wouldnt it be accurate.

Because space is not a big flat plane. Gravity makes it quite a lumpy thing so unless you are jumping next door where you have LoS it stands to reason that the calibration will take longer to complete.

Either way, restrictions are coming in one form another, I consider these threads damage control to try to soften the inevitable impact.
CCP grossly underestimated our ability to mass-produce the damn things and removing/gimping them is not going to happen.

Could just apply to sovereign space. To first of all limit the ***gotry in low-sec, but also dropping on god knows what in Belt XX just for **** and giggles.
For proper offensive operations it doesn't matter wither way since you'd assume there was a sizeable force already present to take out the omni-present jammer.

Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:05:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Bobbeh on 15/12/2010 22:19:29
Originally by: Ephemeron
If cyno jammer is implemented as a new specialized ship - like HICs, then it would only be fair if cyno generator also required a specialized ship. Make only recons be able to fit cynos.

As it is now, if any noob in a throw away Kestrel can light a cyno, there better be a counter that's just as easy to use.


and heres my Answer to you. If you point someone they should beable to Cyno, If the cyno's up already no affect but if it hasnt been launched then if you pointed it before it dropped the cyno it wouldnt transmit until point dropped.

The exception Being Recons, ofcourse as their job is cynos.


As to the CiBC Cynosaural Interdictor Battle Cruiser Idea, id be cool with is as i said, as long it was a mod that along with Cyno Jamming a radius around the ship also had alot of negative affect to the ship itself, like making it a capital size signature, and not moving, and takes a fair amount of cap. Also immune to ECM and RR.

It wouldnt Drop bubbles like Light Dictors it would be a stationary bubble. you could also script it so that if you use the script it can close a cyno that is open or jam a beacon.

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Bobbeh
Since your locking your jump drive onto a specific point in space why wouldnt it be accurate.

Because space is not a big flat plane. Gravity makes it quite a lumpy thing so unless you are jumping next door where you have LoS it stands to reason that the calibration will take longer to complete.

Either way, restrictions are coming in one form another, I consider these threads damage control to try to soften the inevitable impact.
CCP grossly underestimated our ability to mass-produce the damn things and removing/gimping them is not going to happen.

Could just apply to sovereign space. To first of all limit the ***gotry in low-sec, but also dropping on god knows what in Belt XX just for **** and giggles.
For proper offensive operations it doesn't matter wither way since you'd assume there was a sizeable force already present to take out the omni-present jammer.


Indeed it is 3 dimensional Space and the CYno is also a set of coordinates in 3 dimension. Which is locked onto by the jump drive the only difference you'd see cause of the solar system is the cyno would shift over time as the location of everything else in space would be moving So if they wanted to incorperate solar drift well that would be alot of math.

Im pretty sure CCP knew exactly what they were doing as it is the exact same as Bs's or BC's or any other ship in the game, over time they become proliferated.

Whats happening in Lowsec isnt F*ggotry its good tactics im sorry you dont like them. Also if we tackle a rorqual in a belt you bet your ass we will try and drop on it before it can self destruct.

Oh BTW The Cyno Allows the Jump Drive to Bend Space, putting the exact coordinates in the same space as the ships coordinates and then unfolds leaving the ship at the new destination. If my Lore memory is correct.

If you dont like the tactics used in lowsec and 0.0, still leaves highsec.


Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:09:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
If cyno jammer is implemented as a new specialized ship - like HICs, then it would only be fair if cyno generator also required a specialized ship. Make only recons be able to fit cynos.

As it is now, if any noob in a throw away Kestrel can light a cyno, there better be a counter that's just as easy to use.


Sounds good.

Jekyl Eraser
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:30:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Zisi
Quote:
1 It would take 30 seconds to initiate jump. you could cancel it if you wanted. and the jump action would take another 10sec(grid loading and a time you are unable to cancel).

Your cyno frig would never stay alive long enough at a station for anything to jump in. Big problem for logistics unless stations were exempt from the delay.

Quote:
3 jump should be made less than 0.1AU away from a star and jump would send ship less than 1AU from the target system sun. random location.

Capital ships would get ganked *constantly*

Quote:
5 lot shorter jump range

It's short enough, keep in mind, you already have to travel your alts to wherever your jumping to. If it was any smaller it would be horrendous to get anywhere.



1 and 5 I never said you need cyno for jump or any other stuff at the destination system(except when jumping inside system). middle one, just make sure there are no probes near the star...but yeah it could be risky jumping around solo.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.12.19 02:01:00 - [78]
 

Risky is good, it should never be possible to play risk free.

Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.12.19 03:57:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
Risky is good, it should never be possible to play risk free.


Agreed but i dont understand where the idea that its more risky for the prey than it is for the hotdroppers.

The target is never worth as much or risking as much as the hot droppers are risking.

Hot drops are the riskiest thing to do with a capital. See here

Quiet Storm Dropped 1 nyx 4 carriers onto their cyno abaddon, trying to gank something and got tackled and counter dropped by PL who was nearby.


Kai Yuen
Posted - 2010.12.19 09:27:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Bobbeh


Agreed but i dont understand where the idea that its more risky for the prey than it is for the hotdroppers.

The target is never worth as much or risking as much as the hot droppers are risking.

Hot drops are the riskiest thing to do with a capital. See here

Quiet Storm Dropped 1 nyx 4 carriers onto their cyno abaddon, trying to gank something and got tackled and counter dropped by PL who was nearby.




This thread is full of people who've never understood the risk hot droppers take. Some major alliance drop with overwhelming force, yes, but blobbing with capitals is no different than blobbing with anything. With enough people you'll win. This is nothing more than a whine fest by people who can't fly capitals. It takes over a year of training to get an effective carrier pilot. That lengthy training time should come with some benefits... like hot dropping... and my 1bil carrier is worth more than half of your drake fleet. If I drop 10 carriers I've put 5x more ISK at risk on the field than you did. It's NEVER risk free. Anyone who thinks it is is delusional.

Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.12.19 19:09:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Kai Yuen
Originally by: Bobbeh


Agreed but i dont understand where the idea that its more risky for the prey than it is for the hotdroppers.

The target is never worth as much or risking as much as the hot droppers are risking.

Hot drops are the riskiest thing to do with a capital. See here

Quiet Storm Dropped 1 nyx 4 carriers onto their cyno abaddon, trying to gank something and got tackled and counter dropped by PL who was nearby.




This thread is full of people who've never understood the risk hot droppers take. Some major alliance drop with overwhelming force, yes, but blobbing with capitals is no different than blobbing with anything. With enough people you'll win. This is nothing more than a whine fest by people who can't fly capitals. It takes over a year of training to get an effective carrier pilot. That lengthy training time should come with some benefits... like hot dropping... and my 1bil carrier is worth more than half of your drake fleet. If I drop 10 carriers I've put 5x more ISK at risk on the field than you did. It's NEVER risk free. Anyone who thinks it is is delusional.


agreed. completely

Asuka Solo
Gallente
Stark Fujikawa
Posted - 2010.12.19 19:52:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Asuka Solo on 19/12/2010 19:55:25
Originally by: Bobbeh
Originally by: Anubis Xian

It's not about it being unfair, it's about the only counters being hotdrop as well or don't pvp in low or null sec at all.

Hotdropping does more to hurt pvp than it ever did/does to help it.


K Seriously your a Tard, Hot dropping is a legitimate tactic also as any ship in the game can tackle a regular cap and a few Neut heavy BS can Ruin a Small Hot drops day. I see no problem if they hot drop you and your expecting it Fit a bunch of Neut Torp Phoons, and Neut Domis, and Neut torp Rokhs. Have a few Falcons on grid to jam them up and then take em to school.

The only thing that makes hot drops omg in lowsec is the Holy **** its a capital factor that some people seem to have.

Trust me when i say this, They are not going to;
Lower Jump Ranges
Make it Harder to Move Capitals
Make Cynos limit ships
Make A delay for jumping to a cyno
Make Caps Appear at random spots in space on purpose.

All of this would make Caps Basically useless as tactical combat assets, which is exactly what they are COMBAT assets.

Im sorry some people use their hello kitty tranytos to run missions in lowsec, but caps are meant for fighting and thats just what they'll do.

If your sooo worried about hot drops get spais into their comms then you know when its coming. Heres another crazy idea fight on the gate. if they drop you tackled people deagress and jump and non tackled people warp away and then laugh in local.

Seriously eve isnt supposed to be easy and risk free.


Win post Bobbeh, win post.
Originally by: Bobbeh
Originally by: Kai Yuen
Originally by: Bobbeh


Agreed but i dont understand where the idea that its more risky for the prey than it is for the hotdroppers.

The target is never worth as much or risking as much as the hot droppers are risking.

Hot drops are the riskiest thing to do with a capital. See here

Quiet Storm Dropped 1 nyx 4 carriers onto their cyno abaddon, trying to gank something and got tackled and counter dropped by PL who was nearby.




This thread is full of people who've never understood the risk hot droppers take. Some major alliance drop with overwhelming force, yes, but blobbing with capitals is no different than blobbing with anything. With enough people you'll win. This is nothing more than a whine fest by people who can't fly capitals. It takes over a year of training to get an effective carrier pilot. That lengthy training time should come with some benefits... like hot dropping... and my 1bil carrier is worth more than half of your drake fleet. If I drop 10 carriers I've put 5x more ISK at risk on the field than you did. It's NEVER risk free. Anyone who thinks it is is delusional.


agreed. completely


Took the words right out of my mouth. +1

All of the sub capital loving hobo's posting in this topic, should go back to ganking miners in empire for your risk free pvp. Cuz down in the ghetto, there be dragons. And they be there to stay.

Insane Randomness
Posted - 2010.12.22 04:44:00 - [83]
 

A jump drive needs 95% cap base to actually jump right, not including fuel, so when a cap ship jumps in, unless certain skills are trained, its pretty much dead in the water. Even then, the skill doesn't help much, cause even at L5 it'll be 30% (Correct me if I'm wrong. I have never personally flown a cap ship.)

So how about you remove cyno's altogether(Make the jump in point some random spot within 5km of an object the jump in point), half the jump drive range, and then make it so that it requires a certain amount of capacitor, or time before it jumps in.

As it jumps in, it's logical to think that a ship of that size would create a huge signature, so why not make something thats visible to the entire system for like 10-15 seconds, enough for people to see it and select it and then hit the warp button, but if you don't catch it, no one would know. However, no ones going to take on a cap ship by themselves, even if it does have low cap, they wouldn't get past the tank. So they'll call in backup via a fleet, and wait for the ten minutes while a cap ships jump drive "Cools down" via a session change timer or what not, so the fleet has a chance to get in. If pilots aren't in the system, or not paying attention, then the cap ship can get by undetected.

This would also make surprise attacks on alliances still effective as well. Or even on players that are ratting. If they're not paying attention, then it's their fault, not the cyno-pilots. And it still gives time for other pilots to GTFO.


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