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CCP Stillman

Posted - 2010.12.13 09:46:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: Raven Seldon
Q: Is there a time limit to redistribute your SP's?


A: Nope, there's no time limit!Very Happy

CCP Stillman

Posted - 2010.12.13 09:47:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: qaz zaq


Maybe provide a link to the Dev Blog discussion please?


Splendid idea. Done!

Yuri Renak
Posted - 2010.12.13 10:13:00 - [153]
 

Q: Am I daft to look at the free skill point reimbursement and the the isk for untrained books refund.. and still say.. but can I have that time back?

Khalia Nestune
Mad Stacks
Posted - 2010.12.13 10:25:00 - [154]
 

For those who are still *****ing about the math, try a real-math real-life example:

Your job pays $27.72/hour. Your work has now changed it to $27.00/hour. In return, they give you a tax-free bonus of $5,376,000.

I would take that IN A F*CKING HEARBEAT.

Even further, you are *only* "losing" your 72sp/hour if a) you trained the skills to 5/5 and b) have a +5 implant AND c) you are actually training a skill that uses those attributes.

If you're still complaining, you're an idiot.

Kutle
Posted - 2010.12.13 10:25:00 - [155]
 

Q: why arent the capital ship prices rising at thme moment but just oposit?

Same question for marauders and t2 big stuff like launchers....


Kromartie
Posted - 2010.12.13 10:29:00 - [156]
 

Edited by: Kromartie on 30/12/2010 12:36:51
Edited by: Kromartie on 13/12/2010 10:32:04
Q: Was there any technical reason why you could not have left the quick to train rank 1 “Learning” skill in game? Perhaps this skill could have been moved to social or science group? The other 10 skills could have been removed and you could have just added +10 to the attributes.

This would have ensured nobody came out of this worse off and at the same time still removed 5,120,000 SP from the Learning group.

Edit: These questions were not answered in the blog thread.

That aside this is the only game I’m still playing after 7 years, thanks for all the hard work CCP and have a great Christmas.

qaz zaq
Posted - 2010.12.13 10:35:00 - [157]
 

Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 10:47:11
Originally by: Khalia Nestune
For those who are still *****ing about the math, try a real-math real-life example:

Your job pays $27.72/hour. Your work has now changed it to $27.00/hour. In return, they give you a tax-free bonus of $5,376,000.

I would take that IN A F*CKING HEARBEAT.

Even further, you are *only* "losing" your 72sp/hour if a) you trained the skills to 5/5 and b) have a +5 implant AND c) you are actually training a skill that uses those attributes.

If you're still complaining, you're an idiot.


-----------

Nice work up. But, in reality there is one point I would say differently: There is not a Bonus, it is a reimbursement because they took away your house.

And also, I notice in your comments that you even admit, they are losing the 72 sp/hour? I ask, what are you losing? Anything?

Yuri Renak
Posted - 2010.12.13 11:03:00 - [158]
 

Edited by: Yuri Renak on 13/12/2010 11:03:52
Originally by: qaz zaq
Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 10:47:11
Originally by: Khalia Nestune
For those who are still *****ing about the math, try a real-math real-life example:

Your job pays $27.72/hour. Your work has now changed it to $27.00/hour. In return, they give you a tax-free bonus of $5,376,000.

I would take that IN A F*CKING HEARBEAT.

Even further, you are *only* "losing" your 72sp/hour if a) you trained the skills to 5/5 and b) have a +5 implant AND c) you are actually training a skill that uses those attributes.

If you're still complaining, you're an idiot.


-----------

Nice work up. But, in reality there is one point I would say differently: There is not a Bonus, it is a reimbursement because they took away your house.

And also, I notice in your comments that you even admit, they are losing the 72 sp/hour? I ask, what are you losing? Anything?




I trained all of my learning skills to V. I don't have all +5 implants though. Either way: MATH TEIM

_The logic behind the following is misguided but it shows the point in a relatively accurate fashion_

Caldari Cruiser V has 1053725 skill points right now left in my skill window. Divide that by 2244 per hour and I get 469.5666666666667 hours total hours or 19d 13h 34m (confirmed by EvEMon).

Now subtract 72 and its 2172 so 1053725/2172 comes out to 485.140423572744 total hours. Making it 20.214184315531 total days or 20d 5h 8m and 43*rounded* seconds.

So that's what? A little less than 16 extra hours of training?


Conclusion:
I CAN LIVE WITH THAT

Kromartie
Posted - 2010.12.13 11:10:00 - [159]
 

Only people with +5 plugged in will be down 72 SP per hour, if you don't have +5 it will be less.

qaz zaq
Posted - 2010.12.13 11:15:00 - [160]
 

Edited by: qaz zaq on 13/12/2010 11:16:03
Back to orignal discussion point: A loss is a loss, a slower Sp rate is a slower Sp rate..

and what about the statement in this blog from eve wiki?

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Modify_or_Remove_Learning_Skills_%28CSM%29

Which was agreed upon or stated as an Important concern:

----------
Important Caveats
Whichever method is chosen, the following guidelines must apply:

No player should train at a rate slower than their current rate.
---------


Industrial Pirate
Posted - 2010.12.13 11:23:00 - [161]
 

Do they transfer with char?
Does this include 100k SP given for that..er... ''longer''... DT in May ?

Thanks

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2010.12.13 11:46:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Q: *Your question here*
A:


What about our immunity to Sansha mind control?
If the Sansha are using a version of the Jove Book of Emptiness then the SoCT training built into the advanced Learning skills is probably all that is protecting us capsuleers from its effects.
What will be replacing Learning skills in that arena?

Kuntakinte NL
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.12.13 11:48:00 - [163]
 

Q: can we have 5 mil free sp for beeing awesome? Just like on SiSi

(and give me an extra 5 for mentioning it?)

Keira Matrix
Posted - 2010.12.13 11:50:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: Industrial Pirate
Do they transfer with char?
Does this include 100k SP given for that..er... ''longer''... DT in May ?

Thanks



Your questions have already been answered. At least read the replies from CCP members you don't need to read the questions from the Eve community in this thread. So it won't take that long to see what's going on.

Alakazam
Gallente
Skid-Row
Posted - 2010.12.13 12:14:00 - [165]
 

Edited by: Alakazam on 13/12/2010 12:29:37
Q: Will this give me a cheaper clone? If unallocated skillpoints isn't included in total skillpoints count?
A:

ie. I have 10M sp, 5M is learning skillpoints >> I need a 12M clone.
After patch I have 5M skillpoints. >> I only need a 6M clone?

Clarification:
I understand that the clone won't change. But if the learning skillpoints count is taken out of the total skillpoint count it is possible that you will get less sp required than the current clone thresold, as long as you don't immediately redistribute your skillpoints ofcourse.


the example: I have 10M sp and a 9M clone contract
5M sp is taken out of skillpoints, thus I have 4M sp and a 9M clone contract. Is this a correct assumption?


Keira Matrix
Posted - 2010.12.13 12:16:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Alakazam
Q: Will this give me a cheaper clone? If unallocated skillpoints isn't included in total skillpoints count?

ie. I have 10M sp, 5M is learning skillpoints >> I need a 12M clone.
After patch I have 5M skillpoints. >> I only need a 6M clone?




The clone will not change.

Im Blue
Posted - 2010.12.13 12:21:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Im Blue
Q as my attributes are being reduced at what point will i slow down my training speed? will it be the next time i change or add a skill or will it be the start or end of the downtime



didnt see an answer to this, can i get one please?

Keira Matrix
Posted - 2010.12.13 12:33:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Alakazamthe example: I have 10M sp and a 9M clone contract
5M sp is taken out of skillpoints, thus I have 4M sp and a 9M clone contract. Is this a correct assumption?
[/quote



Yep, what ever your clone is it will stay that way unless you alter it.

Veebring Greetings
Posted - 2010.12.13 12:42:00 - [169]
 

Edited by: Veebring Greetings on 13/12/2010 12:50:28
Q: Are the reimbursed SP redistributable between the chars on one account or are they strictly per character?

Keira Matrix
Posted - 2010.12.13 12:43:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Im Blue
Originally by: Im Blue
Q as my attributes are being reduced at what point will i slow down my training speed? will it be the next time i change or add a skill or will it be the start or end of the downtime



didnt see an answer to this, can i get one please?


If you are refering to the 72 sp/h loss then, you need to post in the dev blog thread, a link is in post 154 of this thread.

But iirc from other threads it's about 8 years if you had max learning skills already.

Keira Matrix
Posted - 2010.12.13 12:49:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Veebring Greetings
Q. Are the reimbursed SP redistributable between the chars on one account or are they strictly per character?


They've already answered this one. It's strictly per character.

Veebring Greetings
Posted - 2010.12.13 12:53:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: Keira Matrix
They've already answered this one. It's strictly per character.


Mmm I read the OP but don't see it. And redistribution was possible with the free SP back from the extended DT.

Keira Matrix
Posted - 2010.12.13 13:01:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Veebring Greetings
Originally by: Keira Matrix
They've already answered this one. It's strictly per character.


Mmm I read the OP but don't see it. And redistribution was possible with the free SP back from the extended DT.




Some of the questions have been answered since the op posts, so it's just a matter of browsing through the pages and just reading the CCP answers.

They could of course update the op posts as the longer this gets the more people will just read the op posts.

Veebring Greetings
Posted - 2010.12.13 13:11:00 - [174]
 

Six pages surely qualifies as TL;DR

And I think I can understand that SP pooling would compund CCPs problem of too many high-end characters and too little content for them.

Would have been nice tho Neutral

s3v
Caldari
Ore Mongers
BAT PHONE
Posted - 2010.12.13 13:18:00 - [175]
 

So is there gonna be remap? or do i have to train evemon planned skills with those default 20/20..... if so my training slows down for next 6 months when i can have remap :(.

Obv what i readed earlier, that the earlier remap stays but u will have extra atributs just flowing in the remap pool ?

woot woot :S

Sabr Sheppard
Gallente
Brotherhood of Redemption
Seven Seas Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.13 13:25:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Mike deVoid
Edited by: Mike deVoid on 12/12/2010 22:45:32
Thought I'd post this as someone was asking about training speed

Some quick number crunching for everyone curious.

Present (5/5 learnings +5 implants):
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (primary): 33pt.
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (secondary): 26.4pt.
Maximum effective learning speed, thus: 2772 SP/hour.

Present (5/4 learnings +5 implants):
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (primary): 31.9pt.
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (secondary): 25.3pt.
Maximum effective learning speed, thus: 2673 SP/hour.

Future ([bright or not] +5 implants):
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (primary): 32pt.
Maximum attainable effective attribute value (secondary): 26pt.
Maximum effective learning speed, thus: 2700 SP/hour.

So *if* you have trained to 5/5 then your maximum possible rate drop by 72 sp/hr at most as this assumes you wear your +5 implants all the time. Because of the 5.376,000 SP reimbursement you won't feel any nerf for a minimum of just over 8.5 years. That figure drops by about 1 year for each Advanced Learning you only put to lvl 4.

For 5/4 and below, it's a boost.


I grow tired of incorrect posts such as these. Your math is correct and people are needlessly crying over that 72 SP/H (I'll get to that later). The part I've pointed out is the problem. First off, not everyone has trained EVERY learning skill to V. Actually it's probably more like < 10% of active EVE characters have ALL learning skills at V. But anyway the main thing is that even if you compensate for YOUR leaning SP total, you can't say that you "wont feel any nerf..." as you already earned those skill points. They are yours. They aren't being given to you, they're being refunded. Just like if you brought a laptop back to Best Buy. You aren't being given money from the kindness of their hearts, it's being refunded.

MATH TIME:
So here are the hard numbers for those that complain about loosing those 72SP/H. In a year there are 8766 (24 hours * 365.25 days) hours. That adds up to (assuming that you trained EVERY LEARNING SKILL to V and have +5 implants) 631152 lost SP/Year. Now that may look large but let me put that into perspective. You will now train at 2600 SP/H with neural remap + +5 implants. So it would take you 242.75 (631152/2600) hours or 10 days; 44 minutes; 7 seconds to make those skill points (lost over the course of one year assuming that before the change you were perfect) back. And lets be honest, most of you do not have everything trained to V AND +5 implants in your head (I know those that do will promptly reply saying that you do but I've used so many words in this post that you won't be able to quote me and have much space for your reply :P). I personally made a 2-3 year plan in EVEMon and then trained the suggested learning skills as to not waste time training skills that will end up having a net negative impact on my overall training time. And occasionally you wake up and find that you have no skill in training. Happens to all of us every once in a while.

Overall this change is good for the future of EVE as I've tried to get three people to play and they gave up because for the first month and a half to two months they can't do anything but train learning skills. It allows people to jump right into the game and actually PLAY it instead of just watching their skill queue and game time tick away.

Keira Matrix
Posted - 2010.12.13 13:28:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: Keira Matrix on 13/12/2010 14:09:07
Originally by: s3v
So is there gonna be remap? or do i have to train evemon planned skills with those default 20/20..... if so my training slows down for next 6 months when i can have remap :(.

Obv what i readed earlier, that the earlier remap stays but u will have extra atributs just flowing in the remap pool ?

woot woot :S


Not sure, the actual changes to the remap UI would not necessarily mean they would have to give you a remap.

But the question is, if someone has 33 in an attribute and that becomes 32 then it is likely that that one attribute point will be ready to reuse.

So I see no reason to give a free remap, if they will or not guess we will have to wait and see.


Edit:
If there is no remap you won't be training at 20/20/20/20/19 + imps, you will be training at whatever you set your attributes the last time you remapped.
So 17/17/17/17/17 (base attributes)+ 14 (remap, unchanged and how you set them last time) + imps.

adrobomb
Posted - 2010.12.13 14:27:00 - [178]
 

Unfortunetly for those that did put in the effort of training everything to level 5 with the long term goal of gaining advantage over those who hadn't (a benefit that actually takes several years to pay off), have not only had that taken away, but have had their immediate training speed reduced, clearly a nerf for those people. I for one am not happy, but its not like its the only unfair playing field in EVE. Sad CCP have failed to address some other glaring inequities so i don't see them really caring about those losing out on this one either, and of course those who hadn't trained those skills, have now had their laziness rewarded and any learning speed disadvantage removed, and they will no doubt be singing CCP's praises loudly enough for CCP to ignore the ones who are clearly being penalized.

Disappointing but typical....

Forum Guy
Posted - 2010.12.13 14:31:00 - [179]
 

Edited by: Forum Guy on 13/12/2010 14:32:24
Edited by: Forum Guy on 13/12/2010 14:31:38
Originally by: adrobomb
Unfortunetly for those that did put in the effort of training everything to level 5 with the long term goal of gaining advantage over those who hadn't (a benefit that actually takes several years to pay off), have not only had that taken away, but have had their immediate training speed reduced, clearly a nerf for those people. I for one am not happy, but its not like its the only unfair playing field in EVE. Sad CCP have failed to address some other glaring inequities so i don't see them really caring about those losing out on this one either, and of course those who hadn't trained those skills, have now had their laziness rewarded and any learning speed disadvantage removed, and they will no doubt be singing CCP's praises loudly enough for CCP to ignore the ones who are clearly being penalized.

Disappointing but typical....


If you invest in a long-term investment, then you take a risk. So your long-term investment has not paid off much this time, that is a risk you took. So there really is nothing to complain about.

Amy Elteam
Posted - 2010.12.13 14:31:00 - [180]
 

Q: Are the skill books being completely erased from existence? If I somehow managed to figure out some loophole in this erasure process would they even be able to exist in the new eve universe?

Say I want to own some copies for posterity.


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