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Shazal Khevar
Amarr
Posted - 2010.12.12 05:02:00 - [1]
 

Have you ever seen a single NPC Corporation or Amarr NPC with a latin name? What is it with all those characters making latin names or those corporations with Latin names? I don't remember seeing any mention of latin in Amarr lore other than when "Pax Amarria" was mentioned. Can anyone explain this to me please? Shocked

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.12.12 09:08:00 - [2]
 

examples

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.12.12 09:13:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 12/12/2010 14:55:26
Alaetor loquore latina disertum est. Latinus ars est. Loquore latinum gnosce latina est et gnosce latina utrum latina loquore. Ecce homo! Homo alaetor est. Sino hominum ludus.

Trans: They're homos, let it go.

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2010.12.12 09:30:00 - [4]
 

Look, I don't know wtf you're talking about.

Shazal Khevar
Amarr
Posted - 2010.12.12 13:52:00 - [5]
 

Like... All the Amarr RP Corps I came across have latin names... Neutral

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.12.12 14:59:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Shazal Khevar
Like... All the Amarr RP Corps I came across have latin names... Neutral


You've heard of Rome right?

Pesets
The Hunt Club
Posted - 2010.12.12 17:05:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Pesets on 12/12/2010 17:05:17
Speaking of latin... is there something CCP isn't telling us about Primæ/Noctis?

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.12 19:31:00 - [8]
 

From everything I've read, they should be using Persian or Farsee for their names.. Wink

Sadayiel
Caldari
Inner Conflict
Posted - 2010.12.12 19:42:00 - [9]
 

Amarr it's based in a theological society with a single god (a mixture of christianism,judaism and islamism if you wish) altought most of people consider it to be based in the christianism view of ways (on a more early roman empire develop to feudal age) where the emperor/king it's the liutenant of god in earth blessed by god itself.

I think this is the reason most of people choose latin as it seems a bit more holy language than just normal english.

also want to add this little quote from warhammer 40k
Quote:
Though Latin is used to represent High Gothic in the official fiction published by Black Library it has been stated by high ranked Games Workshop officials that this is not the actual language, and is instead used to simulate what High Gothic would sound like to a Low Gothic speaker.


i think this explanation would fit pretty well the develop of the basic amarr language as latin as it is being used now, atleast until some CCP Dev bother to do a makeshift language just for fun (also i hope the same for the caldari_Very Happy

Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
Posted - 2010.12.12 23:17:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Roga Dracor
From everything I've read, they should be using Persian or Farsee for their names.. Wink


Given that the Amarrian religion is based on the Unified Catholic Church (more specifically, the "Conformists" within), I'm not sure where the Persian / Iranian comparison comes from.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.13 01:49:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 13/12/2010 02:02:08
Edited by: Roga Dracor on 13/12/2010 01:58:14
Zoroastrianism is the basis of the Amarr faith. Amarr-Emir, Persia before the Roman Empire even existed. Before the Judaic faith even. The times of Sumeria and Babylon. The Romans were still warring amongst themselves. If Latin survived, it would be reflected by someone like the Gallente, not the Amarr.

One of the immersion killers I find in Eve. The backstory hasn't been fleshed out, and even the Role Players were never discouraged from the "perspective problem". Christianity didn't survive to Eve. I have never heard an Amarr mention Jesus, rightly so. Because the Amarr faith has NOTHING to do with Christianity. Or Judaism.

Here is your Unified Catholic Church.

Ahura Mahzda, or some future permutation, is the name of the Amarr god. I have never been a fan of the whole "Well, civilization collapsed, so, noone knows the roots of their faith anymore". Faith is the last thing a people lose, especially in bad circumstances. So the Amarr should know the basis of their faith, even if they don't use the proper names anymore.

As I have tried to show before in this whole mystery subject matter. Everything is expressed through the east, not the west. We Westerners need to get over ourselves..Wink

Look at the names, that should be a clue.. Ardishapur? Sound Latin? Sounds Indian or Pakistani to me..

Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.12.13 04:09:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Lucius Vindictus on 13/12/2010 04:10:50
Originally by: Shazal Khevar
Have you ever seen a single NPC Corporation or Amarr NPC with a latin name? What is it with all those characters making latin names or those corporations with Latin names? I don't remember seeing any mention of latin in Amarr lore other than when "Pax Amarria" was mentioned. Can anyone explain this to me please? Shocked


Well, you already mentioned the Pax Amarria yourself. I've seen at least several other Latin names in the game for NPC caracters and in the general lore as well. Still, I kind of regret naming my character before I knew that the majority of names have a more Persian ring to it. Too bad this game doesn't really lend itself to having a name-change feature added to it, so I won't hold my breath :p

There are many cultural aspects that survived after the EVE gate closed, and the Latin language must have been widespread enough to have made it into the Amarr language. Just like how the red cross persists as a universally recognized symbol for the medical facilities in New Eden thousands of years after that organisation was founded on Earth. Most information and culture was lost, but some of it must have been so deeply ingrained that they survived...

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.13 05:43:00 - [13]
 

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.12.13 08:34:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 13/12/2010 08:40:22
Duplicate post.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.12.13 08:36:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 13/12/2010 08:39:58
Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 13/12/2010 08:38:19
Originally by: Roga Dracor
Edited by: Roga Dracor on 13/12/2010 02:02:08
Edited by: Roga Dracor on 13/12/2010 01:58:14
Zoroastrianism is the basis of the Amarr faith. Amarr-Emir, Persia before the Roman Empire even existed. Before the Judaic faith even. The times of Sumeria and Babylon. The Romans were still warring amongst themselves. If Latin survived, it would be reflected by someone like the Gallente, not the Amarr.


Ok, almost every sentence here is either a dubious claim or simply an unfounded assertion. The whole paragraph itself would only be true if the Amarr were taken from earth before the Roman empire had left its imperial phase and gone into decline, but then they wouldn't be named the Unified Catholic Church.

Originally by: Roga Dracor
One of the immersion killers I find in Eve. The backstory hasn't been fleshed out, and even the Role Players were never discouraged from the "perspective problem". Christianity didn't survive to Eve. I have never heard an Amarr mention Jesus, rightly so. Because the Amarr faith has NOTHING to do with Christianity. Or Judaism.


You don't here it because the religion has changed over the millenia, and Amarr don't tolerate contradiction or contradictory views. Religions change, they were Christian, now they are something different. But being different now doesn't mean they weren't Christian in the past.

Originally by: Roga Dracor
Here is your Unified Catholic Church.


Seriously, is this an ad hominem attack of the claim the Amarr are Catholic or can you just not tell the difference between things when they have similar names.

Originally by: Roga Dracor
Ahura Mahzda, or some future permutation, is the name of the Amarr god. I have never been a fan of the whole "Well, civilization collapsed, so, noone knows the roots of their faith anymore".


They didn't loose their faith, it changed over time, and that change reflects political and social changes. You do realize that religions change over time right? That they aren't static and eternal? That the powerful change things to suit their ends? That the masses have beliefs that stray outside of doctrine and dogma, and that this tendency is a universal human trait?

Originally by: Roga Dracor
Faith is the last thing a people lose, especially in bad circumstances. So the Amarr should know the basis of their faith, even if they don't use the proper names anymore.


Why should they exactly, if they knew the basis of their faith, this would call into question the emperors legitimacy to reign, what emperor who wishes to remain in power would tolerate that?

Originally by: Roga Dracor
As I have tried to show before in this whole mystery subject matter. Everything is expressed through the east, not the west. We Westerners need to get over ourselves..Wink


And there we have it, the real reason you draw the tenuous connection between a science fiction religion loosely based on Catholicism to Zoroastrianism, because your an aggressively intolerant multiculturalist, which is just another word for anti-westerner.

Originally by: Roga Dracor
Look at the names, that should be a clue.. Ardishapur? Sound Latin? Sounds Indian or Pakistani to me..


So what? Indians or Pakistanis can't be Catholic? Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu sound Latin to you? And yet it is the birth name of Mother Theresa. Your arguments are lame, GTFO.

Horatius Caul
Amarr
Kitzless
Posted - 2010.12.13 09:10:00 - [16]
 

I don't like the use of latin either (*glances to corp name*), which is why I started working on this.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.12.13 10:27:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Horatius Caul
I don't like the use of latin either (*glances to corp name*), which is why I started working on this.


That's pretty awesome.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.13 15:11:00 - [18]
 

Anti Western, rofl.. I am a Westerner. I am also a Christian. Zoroastrianism was pointed out by a Dev when I questioned the lack of Messiah in the Amarr religion. That is not my opinion, it is a fact of the fictional roots of Eve.

I couldn't RP in this game for this very reason. Ignorant comments about a valid line of inquiry. Get over yourself, and do a bit of research. Yes, it does very much seem that an advanced intelligence plucked up "breeding stock" from the ancient earth. I didn't make this up, CCP did. I just have a problem with gits wanting to make their RP canon, when it has no bearing in the world of Eve. Like Western Theology..

Tsual
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.13 15:44:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Roga Dracor
Anti Western, rofl.. I am a Westerner. I am also a Christian. Zoroastrianism was pointed out by a Dev when I questioned the lack of Messiah in the Amarr religion. That is not my opinion, it is a fact of the fictional roots of Eve.


Either basis means which they used as template and created something similar looking that was rooted in christianity or we the players are in for a stereotypical assumption shock with amarr deriving from a possible avestan word for "immortality" (well literary that is accodring to this dictionary) being "amurdad" ... *shrugs* honestly: adoption or extinction.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.13 17:00:00 - [20]
 

Your Role Play options are irrelevant to me, personally. Don't believe me to be able to dictate such to you. Seeing the figures recently about Sansha's abduction numbers, they seem preposterous as well. So I have to ignore it as propaganda.

As to the timeline, I have been wanting to bring that up for a while.. Time constraints. Very interesting in what it shows, and what it doesn't.

The Conformists colonize New Eden. I see no mention of United Catholics. I presume that after 20,000 years without Messiah arriving, they were forced to re-assess their position.

Or perhaps they simply became irrelevant? Maybe they became the Jove? My point, from the beginning, is I don't know. But, I would like to. So, I began speculating. Which is all I have ever done here. If that offends some, because it invalidates their RP, sorry. Perhaps your Role Play wasn't very well thought out.

I pay my monthly subscription rate, on one account. Eve is not my life. Thus, I am not devastated when a ship goes "pop", or an idea is snubbed out to CCP's fictional direction changes. I just find the socio-political-racial-religious undertones in Eve fascinating.

Not gonna GTFO, ignore my posts.

From a fictional standpoint, it appears that America, Europe, the former Soviets, all became irrelevent at some point. If there was a "First World" power on Earth, it was centered in Indo-Asia.

French New Guinea always stuck as the idea for the Gallente, as I see it. Not France. A world war II Pacific demography, honestly. The religion based on the "dawn" of religion, not any particular religion, other than the Amarr, who have leanings towards the Muslim faith. Industrialized Asia as the basis of the Caldari. Family, caste and nation before all, represented through corporations. And the Matari a hodgepodge of Pagans from all over the globe, though South Africa looks like a possibility, as well. If anything, the Jove looked like the G8. Razz

Sorry if that shatters any preconceptions, it gives me a greater insight into understanding the backstory..

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.12.13 19:19:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Roga Dracor
Your Role Play options are irrelevant to me, personally. Don't believe me to be able to dictate such to you. Seeing the figures recently about Sansha's abduction numbers, they seem preposterous as well. So I have to ignore it as propaganda.

As to the timeline, I have been wanting to bring that up for a while.. Time constraints. Very interesting in what it shows, and what it doesn't.

The Conformists colonize New Eden. I see no mention of United Catholics. I presume that after 20,000 years without Messiah arriving, they were forced to re-assess their position.

Or perhaps they simply became irrelevant? Maybe they became the Jove? My point, from the beginning, is I don't know. But, I would like to. So, I began speculating. Which is all I have ever done here. If that offends some, because it invalidates their RP, sorry. Perhaps your Role Play wasn't very well thought out.

I pay my monthly subscription rate, on one account. Eve is not my life. Thus, I am not devastated when a ship goes "pop", or an idea is snubbed out to CCP's fictional direction changes. I just find the socio-political-racial-religious undertones in Eve fascinating.

Not gonna GTFO, ignore my posts.

From a fictional standpoint, it appears that America, Europe, the former Soviets, all became irrelevent at some point. If there was a "First World" power on Earth, it was centered in Indo-Asia.

French New Guinea always stuck as the idea for the Gallente, as I see it. Not France. A world war II Pacific demography, honestly. The religion based on the "dawn" of religion, not any particular religion, other than the Amarr, who have leanings towards the Muslim faith. Industrialized Asia as the basis of the Caldari. Family, caste and nation before all, represented through corporations. And the Matari a hodgepodge of Pagans from all over the globe, though South Africa looks like a possibility, as well. If anything, the Jove looked like the G8. Razz

Sorry if that shatters any preconceptions, it gives me a greater insight into understanding the backstory..


Whatever, you're a fool, enjoy your bliss.

Kyo Haku
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.12.13 22:40:00 - [22]
 

Probably because Latin is connected with the Catholic church, and sounds religious in general. (in the eye of society) And because the Amarrian religion is the mutated crack baby of Catholicism.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.13 23:02:00 - [23]
 

Please refrain from personal attacks. Spitfire

Honorius Vitellius
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.14 02:15:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Honorius Vitellius on 14/12/2010 03:33:54
Umm,

Maybe adding to a thread that should be allowed to die…

To get my personal prejudice out of the way, I like the use of Latin for the Amarr. I also like the use of Persian names as well. Languages and phrasings that recall both the Roman Empire and the Persian Empire are particularly appropriate for what the Amarr Empire is supposed to be: a vast theocratic empire whose ruler enjoys an aura of divine power and justification. Since this is a fictional game playing around with bits of the cultures and philosophies of the larger world, which hopefully manages to explore the possibilities inherent in them, I do not see why the Amarr empire cannot accommodate all kinds of references and resonances to multiple cultures that speak to its concept.

I think that Latin comes up in the context of the Amarr both because of what it means historically, and also what it means culturally to the players who use it. In the Western Tradition, the use of Latin immediately recalls not only the Roman Empire, but also the language and rituals of the first 1500 years of Christianity.

Rinse and repeat the paragraph above for other cultures and empires with names added/changed.


Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.12.14 02:36:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 14/12/2010 02:52:14
edit: pointless flaming removed. He's probably forum banned now anyway.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.12.14 02:39:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 14/12/2010 02:40:18
Originally by: Horatius Caul
I don't like the use of latin either (*glances to corp name*), which is why I started working on this.


That's awesome. I've spent a lot of time moving between warp gates and looking at the map, thinking about the linguistic roots to the 4 empires.

Gallente is pretty clearly French-ish, and Minmatar is pretty clearly Nordic. My theory is that Caldari is American/Chinese, but I know that's not generally agreed on.

Although my personal pet-peeve is, anything 40000 years in the future would be completely unrecognizable to us. But, the fiction seems to pretty clearly indicate that's not the case, and fiction here is of course cannon.

Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
Posted - 2010.12.14 02:59:00 - [27]
 

20 thousand, but still.

And I'll note here that the developers specifically based the Caldari names and such on sort of a Finnish-Japanese hybrid, FWIW.

Kahlide
Posted - 2010.12.14 03:04:00 - [28]
 

...moving on...Rolling Eyes

Unified Catholic Church (all caps) does not appear to relate to any religion we know today. Today's Roman Catholics do not use the word 'Unified' except to describe their school districts in the U.S. The Pope uses 'unified' (little u) often enough but he is not describing a movement or sect. The word 'catholic' is Latin for 'universal' and can be used generically with a little 'c.'

The only thing we truely know about Amarrian ancestry is that there was some religious order called 'The Conformists' who were related to some religion called "Unified Catholic Church" that left Earth to colonize another planet in Sol, were eventually kicked off said planet, then came to Eve. Very little to go on. Nothing to say this religion follows eastern OR western traditions so we are left to make it up as we go.

Latin is a Roman Catholic tradition and it is understandable why some players/corps use it to gussy up their role play. I mean, who here has the time to invent a new language? Who here knows enough Farsi to start using it in their role play?

Our own cultures and languages we use today are layered with the strata of conquered proto-cultures from ages past. It is safe to assume Amarri culture is the same. Too much Latin for you? Spice up the soup with something else.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.14 03:36:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Roga Dracor
Please refrain from personal attacks. Spitfire



Now that? THAT was dumb. Because what you just did was issued a real-life threat against another player. Which is against both rules 1 and 2 of the EVE Online Terms of Service.

Learn the lesson, mate: Don't get angry at people on the Internet.

Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
Posted - 2010.12.14 05:00:00 - [30]
 

I have to say, as a non-affiliated Christian IRL, that Catholic "unification" has a very specific meaning in that context, related to the Orthodox churches and the Roman Catholics. I have always understood the reference in EVE to thus relate to that unification.

YMMV, of course. Smile


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