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CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:19:00 - [1]
 

CCP Masterplan is revealing part two of his dev blog. This time he shares some of the technical details and the results of the improvements here.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:23:00 - [2]
 

Sweet, more blog ****.

Tharill daSai
Caldari
Serringer Arms Inc
Free United Spirits
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:29:00 - [3]
 

Blogs good

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:29:00 - [4]
 

Well done, Team Gridlock!

TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:35:00 - [5]
 

Masterplan, best plan

Sgt Blade
Caldari
Save Yourself Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:37:00 - [6]
 

how interesting

Yon89
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:38:00 - [7]
 

Thanks now our drake fleets of d00m will rock even more YARRRR!!

Saana Nara
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:38:00 - [8]
 

Good blog, I'd love to get more of this behind the scenes info on development :)

Masjheira
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:39:00 - [9]
 

Can you please remove Drakes from the game? This way, no more missile blobs and no more CPU issues ! :P

Thank you very much.

Phoenix Tyrox
Krupp-Stahl
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:41:00 - [10]
 

Thanks for this awesome DevBlog! It covers what I missed in the last DevBlogs: Behind-the-scene insides in form of pseudo code. I really enjoyed this one and I am looking forward to seeing more of this kind.

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:43:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: TeaDaze
Masterplan, best plan
qft

Julian Assagne
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:50:00 - [12]
 

Dev Blog with Graphs = Win.

-Julian Assagne
CEO of EVELeaks

Orkanen
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:55:00 - [13]
 

This was great. It's always nice to get some insight into why the game behaves the way it does. Also, programmer war stories are good stuff.

Skuggis
Systembolaget
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:56:00 - [14]
 

Good job! I find information like this to be super interesting, keep it coming.

DmitryEKT
Clandestine.
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:56:00 - [15]
 

Glad you managed to fix this.
Now fix the drake. If it wasn't so OP compared to other BCs for these blobfests it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.

static zero
Minmatar
Power of the Phoenix
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:57:00 - [16]
 

How time-consuming are the operations to acquire data about balls in the field? Could some of the data be acquired asynchronously?

Great stuff, thanks for sharing :D

-static

Marchocias
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:57:00 - [17]
 

Who's the man?

Masterplan!

Salpun
Gallente
Paramount Commerce
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:01:00 - [18]
 

The new fight on lag page places the smooth fleet fight limit at 600. What it does not say is if that is on a reinforced blade or not. Could you tell us? And the limit on the other blade type? Also with these new changes can you push that higher or do you have to have an actual fight on TQ that is with in standerd ie no lag to justify moving the number to the right.

Dunpeal
Caldari
M'8'S
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:05:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Dunpeal on 11/12/2010 16:05:39
Originally by: DmitryEKT
Glad you managed to fix this.
Now fix the drake. If it wasn't so OP compared to other BCs for these blobfests it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.


Actually it is my opinion that it is quite the opposite, without the obvious fame of the one ship (regardless of wich), this particular event that resulted in this fix, would've lacked that catalyst to put all into motion, wich stands to reason to question if the bottleneck would've been so easy as identified or even called to atention to search for that one needle in the humungous haystack that is eve's code.

So overall eve is now better, BECAUSE of the supposed overpoweredness of that one ship, so i gues... be thankfull for it. Laughing

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:09:00 - [20]
 

Just be honest... the server code is all in pseudo code and thats why its so bad?

Motriek
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:12:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Motriek on 11/12/2010 16:26:07
Since a copy of the serialized data is now being sent to all clients, do we (clients/observers) still see personalized transversal figures on our overview? Transversal (radians/sec) differs for every observer.

Additionally, does sendtoclient have communication latency (to the client/proxy)? Ideally that step would be buffered and asynchronous.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:12:00 - [22]
 

Wooooooot!


Awesome stuff.

And presented in an even better way. That is just great.

*applauds* Well done Team Gridlock and CCP Masterplan!

(The original loop was a bit silly though Razz)

ElfeGER
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:15:00 - [23]
 

nice improvement :)

is that SinglecastByClientID full CPU usage or more network delay while pushing the updates to the proxies?

are the GUI guys also using the profiler now? (the overview window in large fleets needs some love)

Kesi Raae
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:16:00 - [24]
 

Does this mean we can bring twice as many Drakes to fights, now?

CCP Masterplan


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:19:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: static zero
How time-consuming are the operations to acquire data about balls in the field? Could some of the data be acquired asynchronously?

Individually, querying this data isn't too expensive. It does add up though if we need to query the data lots of times in the same frame. That's why I added the single-frame cache: If we need to look up some ball info for multiple observers, the first one will cause the value to be fully looked-up/calculated, and subsequent requests will pull the results from the cache. As I mentioned, this was more of a problem when one fleet warps into another. In these cases, I was seeing a cache hit:miss ratio of 50,000:1 (I'm talking about the ball-state cache here, not the CPU cache)
This is less of a problem (and so less of a saving) in non-warp situations.

Originally by: Salpun
The new fight on lag page places the smooth fleet fight limit at 600. What it does not say is if that is on a reinforced blade or not. Could you tell us? And the limit on the other blade type? Also with these new changes can you push that higher or do you have to have an actual fight on TQ that is with in standerd ie no lag to justify moving the number to the right.

Those numbers are based on a reinforced node. On a regular node, if all the other systems are empty, it will be almost the same as a reinforced node. It is impossible to say what a regular node will support in normal operation, as it all depends on what is happening in the other systems it is currently hosting.

At the moment that marker based on load graphs, player feedback, simulations and some trend-analysis. Quantifying 'gameplay quality' is somewhat impossible. However we're currently developing some more tangible metrics, such as 'How many modules are cycling on a node' and 'Module activation delay'. Depending on how reliably these correlate with actual gameplay experience, we might even publish these for everyone to see at some point. However this is all rather experimental at this point, so I'm not promising anything

CCP Masterplan


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:26:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: ElfeGER
nice improvement :)

is that SinglecastByClientID full CPU usage or more network delay while pushing the updates to the proxies?

are the GUI guys also using the profiler now? (the overview window in large fleets needs some love)


Thanks!
SinglecastByClientID is still full CPU burn doing serialisation/addressing right now. Reducing this is somewhere on our list (roughly sorted by gain/effort) The actual IO interaction is handled asynchronously by stacklessIO.
Telemetry was initially integrated into the client for just this sort of thing. When Gridlock saw a preview of it, it was very much a case of "WANT ON SERVERS NOW PLEASE!"

DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:30:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: TeaDaze
Masterplan, best plan


Woohoo!

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:34:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: CCP Masterplan
[...]


Did you guys notice that, according to the graphs, the "Missiles - Inventory and Damage"-part of the load increased by roughly 12% from old to new?

Gant Grief
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:35:00 - [29]
 

Hehe, pseudocode

Perkuno Sunus
Gallente
Unicorn Enterprise
Posted - 2010.12.11 16:35:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Perkuno Sunus on 11/12/2010 16:34:58
Both of your articles were very interesting/awesome! They gave a bit of insight how things work internally. It's always interesting to see, how things were, and what kind of optimizations can be applied or trade-offs chosen from in a specific area to achieve the desired result. And of course, most importantly - the observable improvement.
I hope this is not the last blog of this kind.
Thank you.


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