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CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.12.12 09:51:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Zyphore
Question: What would happen if you were training a learning skill as the 10:00 downtime began?
It will end and if you don't have any other skill in the queue you won't gain any more SP until you log back in.
I would strongly recommend to all pilots to stop training learning skills immediately.

Obviously we have taken this scenario into consideration and if there are learning skills in the skill queue at the time of the deployment then we modify the queue. But if you are not going to reach a new training level prior to deployment then you are better off just spending the time training other skills. It will also speed up the deployment the less number of skill queues there are that we have to modify.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.12.12 09:54:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Callin Vandylx
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Zyphore
Question: What would happen if you were training a learning skill as the 10:00 downtime began?
It will end and if you don't have any other skill in the queue you won't gain any more SP until you log back in.
A related question:

Let's say at 08:00 before the Incursion 1.0.1 patch, your skill queue looks like this:

1. Empathy V (20 hours remaining)
2. Battlecruisers V (25 days remaining)

What will happen to your skill queue after the patch is applied?

Will there be a point (let's call it 14:00 for argument) at which Empathy V will be stopped and Battlecruisers V will be promoted to take its place?

In which case, at 14:00, you'll have a queue that is:

1. Battlecruisers V (25 days left)

Plus the skill points from Empathy V trained up to 14:00 will be put into the unallocated skill point pool?

Or, will the skill queue be simply emptied? Or, something else?
When the cleanup script is started, the SP in Empathy up to that moment is moved to the reimbursement pool and Battlecruisers V will be started.
Yes, but if you are not going to reach a new training level of Empathy prior to the deployment then you should just stop training it immediately and switch to Battlecruisers.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.12.12 09:56:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Quote:
"?Our UI designers and programmers were in holiday mood, and overhauled the Neural Remap window, making it much more intuitive. Why not check it out and see if any other gifts await you there!"
Hmm, now I'm thinking maybe we DO get a free remap, after all. I mean, CCP suggests we check out the Neural Remap window, and see what other gifts are THERE. That can't be much else than an extra remap; or an extra attribute point.

Could also the dev is simply, in a bit of a clumsily worded manner, referring to the advent of the Echelon. :)
I guess you won't find out unless you take a look at the window post-deployment. Very Happy

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.12 11:24:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Yes, but if you are not going to reach a new training level of Empathy prior to the deployment then you should just stop training it immediately and switch to Battlecruisers.

This contradicts the explanation of the process that we have been given. If the player's rate of training of Empathy is greater than his rate of training of Battlecruisers, he should continue training Empathy as long as he can.

The caveat is that at DT on the 14th, everyone should insure that their skill queues contain at least one non-learning skill (as Callin describes, for example) -- and, like all extended DTs, that the queue contains a multi-day skill.

The potential gotcha occurs when a player goes into the DT with a queue that contains nothing but learning skills, because that will result in an empty skill queue.

Those engaging in skillpoint arbitrage who have a long-period learning skill training that would complete after the DT need to manually stop training the skill before the DT and load up their queue with non-learning skills, otherwise they will get caught by the gotcha.

However, those who have a learning skill that completes during the downtime, and other skills in their queue after the learning skill, will get the maximum possible benefit from skillpoints arbitrage.

If the above description is incorrect, then the correct explanation needs to be broadly disseminated ASAP -- because this is how all the players I know thing it is going to work -- and it may become a major petition headache.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.12.12 11:31:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Yes, but if you are not going to reach a new training level of Empathy prior to the deployment then you should just stop training it immediately and switch to Battlecruisers.

This contradicts the explanation of the process that we have been given. If the player's rate of training of Empathy is greater than his rate of training of Battlecruisers, he should continue training Empathy as long as he can.

The caveat is that at DT on the 14th, everyone should insure that their skill queues contain at least one non-learning skill (as Callin describes, for example) -- and, like all extended DTs, that the queue contains a multi-day skill.

The potential gotcha occurs when a player goes into the DT with a queue that contains nothing but learning skills, because that will result in an empty skill queue.

Those engaging in skillpoint arbitrage who have a long-period learning skill training that would complete after the DT need to manually stop training the skill before the DT and load up their queue with non-learning skills, otherwise they will get caught by the gotcha.

However, those who have a learning skill that completes during the downtime, and other skills in their queue after the learning skill, will get the maximum possible benefit from skillpoints arbitrage.

If the above description is incorrect, then the correct explanation needs to be broadly disseminated ASAP -- because this is how all the players I know thing it is going to work -- and it may become a major petition headache.
If you intend to engage in skill point arbitrage then your details are correct. But if you intend to speed up skill learning then you should stop as soon as you can't reach a new level.

Palovana
Caldari
Inner Fire Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.12 13:01:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Quote:
"?Our UI designers and programmers were in holiday mood, and overhauled the Neural Remap window, making it much more intuitive. Why not check it out and see if any other gifts await you there!"
Hmm, now I'm thinking maybe we DO get a free remap, after all. I mean, CCP suggests we check out the Neural Remap window, and see what other gifts are THERE. That can't be much else than an extra remap; or an extra attribute point.

Could also the dev is simply, in a bit of a clumsily worded manner, referring to the advent of the Echelon. :)
I guess you won't find out unless you take a look at the window post-deployment. Very Happy


Last time I had logged into SiSi there was no free remap (I had remapped after the most recent mirror, making my next remap available in November 2011) nor was there a 15th remappable attribute point, so it must be something else.

I might have missed something, but SiSi is down right now so I can't go back and double-check.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.12.12 13:06:00 - [37]
 

Let's put some numbers on the table. I'm using a specific character, your mileage may vary depending on attributes, learning skills and implants.

I can train Battlecruiser at 1,912 SP/hour. All learning skills are less or equal SP/hour so they are not worth training compared to Battlecruiser, except Logic at 2,009 SP/hour. By training Logic and then post-deployment assigning those SPs to Battlecruiser then I could effectively be training Battlecruiser at 2,009 SP/hour, at a gain of additional 97 SP/hour.

If I make a mistake and leave Logic in the queue during the deployment then I won't be training at all, at an effective loss of 1,912 SP/hour. During each hour of deployment then I would be losing 19,7 hours of arbitrage. The deployment is 5 hours 30 minutes so the total loss would be 108.4 hours of arbitrage.

The gain of the arbitrage could be quite minimal, but if you know what you are doing, do the calculations for your character and don't leave the learning skill in the queue during the deployment then there is some (small) gain.

I still stick to my original recommendation that pilots stop training learning skills as soon as possible. It's simplest and the (small) gain could be wiped by the significant loss if you do it wrong.

Fredou
Gallente
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2010.12.12 16:57:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Let's put some numbers on the table. I'm using a specific character, your mileage may vary depending on attributes, learning skills and implants.

I can train Battlecruiser at 1,912 SP/hour. All learning skills are less or equal SP/hour so they are not worth training compared to Battlecruiser, except Logic at 2,009 SP/hour. By training Logic and then post-deployment assigning those SPs to Battlecruiser then I could effectively be training Battlecruiser at 2,009 SP/hour, at a gain of additional 97 SP/hour.

If I make a mistake and leave Logic in the queue during the deployment then I won't be training at all, at an effective loss of 1,912 SP/hour. During each hour of deployment then I would be losing 19,7 hours of arbitrage. The deployment is 5 hours 30 minutes so the total loss would be 108.4 hours of arbitrage.

The gain of the arbitrage could be quite minimal, but if you know what you are doing, do the calculations for your character and don't leave the learning skill in the queue during the deployment then there is some (small) gain.

I still stick to my original recommendation that pilots stop training learning skills as soon as possible. It's simplest and the (small) gain could be wiped by the significant loss if you do it wrong.




you should put that in an eve news so everyone see it

only a small proportion of player read forum Razz

Matalino
Posted - 2010.12.13 05:05:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Let's put some numbers on the table. I'm using a specific character, your mileage may vary depending on attributes, learning skills and implants.

I can train Battlecruiser at 1,912 SP/hour. All learning skills are less or equal SP/hour so they are not worth training compared to Battlecruiser, except Logic at 2,009 SP/hour. By training Logic and then post-deployment assigning those SPs to Battlecruiser then I could effectively be training Battlecruiser at 2,009 SP/hour, at a gain of additional 97 SP/hour.

If I make a mistake and leave Logic in the queue during the deployment then I won't be training at all, at an effective loss of 1,912 SP/hour. During each hour of deployment then I would be losing 19,7 hours of arbitrage. The deployment is 5 hours 30 minutes so the total loss would be 108.4 hours of arbitrage.

The gain of the arbitrage could be quite minimal, but if you know what you are doing, do the calculations for your character and don't leave the learning skill in the queue during the deployment then there is some (small) gain.

I still stick to my original recommendation that pilots stop training learning skills as soon as possible. It's simplest and the (small) gain could be wiped by the significant loss if you do it wrong.
Your example is perfectly clear for the case where the skill queue is left empty as a result of the change, but it does not clearly address the case where the learning skill would complete during the scheduled downtime.

Here is the specifics of the situation I am refering to. I have 4 characters in this situtation with skill completion times that varying by only a few minutes.

After the changes, the characters will have a learning rate of 1680 SP/hour (currently 1296 SP/hour) for the skills against which I plan to use skill point arbitrage. Currently the characters are training Eidetic Memory V, at a rate of 2365 SP/hour. Eidetic Memory V is queued to complete at 2010-12-14 10:50:38. I will put a multi-day non-learning skill in the queue to fill it so that there should be no missed training time.

Now the question is: how will the removal of learning skills be handled?

Will I have 50 minutes of no skill training because learning skills will be removed before the skill queues are updated?

Will I have a longer missed training time because the skill points aquired since the last time the skill queue is updated are not added into the refunded skill points?

- or -

Will I get the expected skill points for the completion of Eidetic Memory up until the script is run to update the skill queues? Will the next skill start as soon as Eidetic Memory is paused/completed?

Karl Mattar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2010.12.13 05:41:00 - [40]
 

This is the kind of thing people actually worry about? Rolling Eyes

Seriously, take the man's advice and move your skill queue.

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.13 12:12:00 - [41]
 

Update, December 13: Two additional patch notes have been added in green text. These notes are:

Drones

* Fixed fallout from the Fighter Bomber upgrade released in Incursion 1.0.0. This was causing Fighter Bombers to function erratically when sent to pursue targets.

User Interface

* An issue that caused players to no longer see an option to ‘Sell this item’ in the contextual menu while in space has been fixed.

INLops
Posted - 2010.12.13 14:59:00 - [42]
 

Will sp and the ship be granted to characters on inactive accounts?

Zyphore
Gallente
The Real Black Thorn
Fall From Grace.
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:16:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
SNIP!


Thank you very much, your explanation was very clear and concise. I think I'll play it safe and swap out my learning skill queues before I go to bed tonight.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2010.12.13 17:57:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Vincent Athena on 13/12/2010 23:55:00
In the patch notes in the fixes section there is this:

* Mac
o The Mac client now supports anti-aliasing.
o Drones


With nothing after "drones".
Typo? Or has something about drones been fixed in the Mac?

Edit: Apparently it was a typo, the patch notes have been edited, and the errant "drones" removed.

Callin Vandylx
Posted - 2010.12.13 18:16:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena

Typo? Or has something about drones been fixed in the Mac?


All Tech II drones have been upgraded to Mac OS X Snow Leopard. In the final patch of Incursion, they intend to upgrade all the remaining Tech I and faction drones to Snow Leopard as well.

Hopefully this will reduce the number of drone-attacking malware incidents.

Cheers,

Callin

Wink

CCP Wrangler

Posted - 2010.12.13 19:51:00 - [46]
 

EVE Online: Incursion 1.0.1 deployment delayed by 24 hours

Due to a deployment environment issue that needs to be resolved before we deploy EVE Online: Incursion 1.0.1, we are delaying the launch by 24 hours to ensure a smooth delivery. Deployment will commence on Wednesday, December 15 at 10:00 UTC and we expect it to be completed at 15:30 UTC. We apologize for any inconvenience this delay may cause you and we thank you for your patience as we work on resolving this issue.

This is the second installment of Incursion and the release notes can be found here, the third installment will be available in January. Full details on the launch plan can be found in CCP Zulu's blog and a discussion thread is available right here where you're reading this.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2010.12.13 19:52:00 - [47]
 

Well, we were warned it could be pushed back as far as next year..

Do what needs to be done.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2010.12.13 19:59:00 - [48]
 

API being downed for a day or two?

Atridies
Posted - 2010.12.13 20:28:00 - [49]
 

Fancy delaying it another day? Wednesday is my day off LaughingRolling Eyes

CLEARWATER
Dark Nebula Academy
O X I D E
Posted - 2010.12.13 20:37:00 - [50]
 

CCP I am grateful that you delayed the patch to get everything correct. Take more time if you need it as no one in eve wants another faulty patch! Thanks for patching this way instead of "let's release it and see how bad it falls apart." Excellent work!

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.12.13 20:41:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Callin Vandylx
Originally by: Vincent Athena

Typo? Or has something about drones been fixed in the Mac?


All Tech II drones have been upgraded to Mac OS X Snow Leopard. In the final patch of Incursion, they intend to upgrade all the remaining Tech I and faction drones to Snow Leopard as well.

Hopefully this will reduce the number of drone-attacking malware incidents.

Cheers,

Callin

Wink


Along with the Mac "Upgrade" in the spirit of usual CCP and Mac issues the drones will now no longer deploy as they will have interface problems between yoru ship and the drone.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2010.12.13 20:59:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena
In the patch notes in the fixes section there is this:

* Mac
o The Mac client now supports anti-aliasing.
o Drones


With nothing after "drones".
Typo? Or has something about drones been fixed in the Mac?


I was sort of hoping for CCP to answer.....

Galileo89
Posted - 2010.12.13 21:54:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena
In the patch notes in the fixes section there is this:

* Mac
o The Mac client now supports anti-aliasing.
o Drones


With nothing after "drones".
Typo? Or has something about drones been fixed in the Mac?


Do want windowed mode for mac :(

wherezthatdonkeh
Posted - 2010.12.13 22:03:00 - [54]
 

we demand reimburstment for lost SP ! Rolling Eyes

Omega Flames
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.12.13 22:03:00 - [55]
 

EVE Christmas has been delayed by 24 hours due to time flux /cry

CCP Wrangler

Posted - 2010.12.13 22:08:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Omega Flames
EVE Christmas has been delayed by 24 hours due to time flux /cry
Well, it wasn't just a time flux, as you can see here... Cool

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2010.12.13 22:32:00 - [57]
 

Hmmm, CCP does deployment dress rehearsals on Singularity. Nice to know.

24 hour delay: Can we get extra snowballs in compensation?

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.12.13 22:51:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena
Hmmm, CCP does deployment dress rehearsals on Singularity. Nice to know.
Yeah, we use it as a test server...

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2010.12.13 23:07:00 - [59]
 

I don't think we have ever heard the width, breadth and depth of all the tests you do in Sisi. We know players can go on there and test new stuff, or test exitsing stuff before risking it on TQ, and we know about mass tests, deployment tests, and now deployment dress rehearsals. What else?

Cresalle
Posted - 2010.12.13 23:41:00 - [60]
 

They test everything on SiSi...

Well...

Mostly everything. I think deployment testing is new, but in the past SiSi has always been used as an environment for testing changes before they are commited to TQ.


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