open All Channels
seplocked Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions
blankseplocked Too many corporations?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Veriasse Valence
Gallente
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2010.12.10 15:34:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Veriasse Valence on 10/12/2010 15:37:17
Edited by: Veriasse Valence on 10/12/2010 15:33:57
Edit: WIP

Do we have a problem of saturation? In years past when recruiting I've not noticed any major difficulty in meeting new candidates. It seemed like people were out there and looking for places to be. Fast forward from 2008 to 2010, and my experiences in recruiting so far at the end of this year have been dismal.

I continually hear from CCP in interviews through venues like Lost in EVE that they are working on ways to help newcomers find corporations, and that this is supposedly a big problem... But I disagree fully. In fact, I think there are so many people with a half ass dream of running their own corporation that we've hit a stage now where there are far more corps competing for people than there are people looking for corps.

Whaddya think?

islador
Gallente
Frontier Explorer's League
Posted - 2010.12.10 16:55:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Veriasse Valence
Edited by: Veriasse Valence on 10/12/2010 15:37:17
Edited by: Veriasse Valence on 10/12/2010 15:33:57
Edit: WIP

Do we have a problem of saturation?...
I continually hear from CCP in interviews through venues like Lost in EVE that they are working on ways to help newcomers find corporations, and that this is supposedly a big problem...

Whaddya think?


No, you're relying on CCP to provide you with tools that do your job for you, and that isn't how EVE got where it is today. This game is good because CCP has always been able to provide us, the CEOs and other leadership inclined types, with powerful utilities that allow us to do all kinds of things, but do nothing for us. EX: Shares, millions of profit sharing possibilities, but will do absolutely nothing for you unless you make it work for you.

CCP has provided us with all the game mechanics we need to recruit, Local Chat, show info, the well placed "apply to join" button on the corp info window, and the gift of private convos. Get out and hoof it, I damn near single handedly built FEL0N up from a 2 member corp to a 60 member corp doing just that.

Originally by: Veriasse Valence


But I disagree fully. In fact, I think there are so many people with a half ass dream of running their own corporation that we've hit a stage now where there are far more corps competing for people than there are people looking for corps.



On this point I will concede, however I counter with the facts of reality, a half assed dream leads to a half assed corp and I can talk a guy out of a half assed corp same as an NPC corp! Toss in the fact that most of these half assers, as they're now known, realize that running a corp takes work, and drop it, the rest of em leave EVE because "theres nothing to do, its borring", and thats that. Those that tough it out become the likes of you and me, and then EVE is better for it, more leaders in this community is always a good thing, now if only more of em had any balls.

Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.12.10 18:14:00 - [3]
 

Simple, don't be a part of the problem, close your corp.

Farham
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.12.10 18:39:00 - [4]
 




Good corporations don't have problems recruiting, not back when and not today.

Use that as you may.

Veriasse Valence
Gallente
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2010.12.10 18:45:00 - [5]
 

Hehehe yah, HTFU and all that.

Of course, you may see my attempt as another one of the half assed tries. We'll see whether it turns out to be or not, but I dont need your approval to continue. :)

islador -

I havent stated anywhere I want CCP to do my job. In fact, I'm generally happy with all the tools at one's disposal. I am just wondering about whether or not the overall rate of new players is able to keep up with the burgeoning number of corporations over time. Unless the rate of new players has increased, then you have more corps competing. Its not rocket science.

Shamrock1
Caldari
McWOOKIE'S REVOLOUTION
Posted - 2010.12.11 00:08:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Shamrock1 on 11/12/2010 00:23:54
enter the era of the griefer??Very Happy

the reason why I say this cuz we all know soon enough We'll walk in stations and when that happens eve will go from 50 thousand people a day to 100 thousand a day easy. With even more half ass, ignorant and potentially hostile recruiting atmospheres. Think for a second noob CEO's can't competently run a corp. It'll take them numerous attempts to get it right and then when they get it right the damage has been done. Not to say a few months later the influx of new/older players will come back, but the experience of a good corp hasn't been there in the beginning, so 10-15 mill sp toons will be very reluctant to even want to join that potentially up right established corps in they're future even if they make it to 10m sp. So what I propose is go find your nearest noob corp with that noob CEO and dec them. Go to war and show that CEO they're incompetence and inexperience, then offer them mercy in the form of a merger. Show that corp what it means to have a corp with bigger ambitions and exasperation's.

viod hawk
Amarr
B4D W0LF
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2010.12.11 13:19:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Simple, don't be a part of the problem, close your corp.


rofl , best reply ever.

Hound Halfhand
Minmatar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2010.12.11 17:56:00 - [8]
 

I've seen this happen in every game online MMO type game I've played going back to text based MUDs from the 90s. Too many guilds/corps dilute the talent out there. People get so attached to their "tag" they leave the game if its dies down instead of finding another corp to join that is more active. It takes a ton of effort from numerous people to run a successful corp in EVE. Lot's of ISK, connections and leg work. Not just a catchy name and big ideas.

BTW, I have been a recruiter in almost all of the games I have played and EVE, IMO is the easiest to be a recruiter in. New talent everyday and people seem to really know what they want. Also, it helps if you work for a established corp that has some kind of reputation.

Lord Meriak
Amarr
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2010.12.12 12:04:00 - [9]
 

Just be the best you can be, the right players will find you.


Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2010.12.14 06:09:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Deen Wispa on 14/12/2010 06:13:41
I do agree with the OP that there are many idiots with half-assed dreams of running a corp. But it is what it is. People are suckered into fly-by night corps all the time. Just scanning through the myriad of recruitment threads of which 70% of them are PvP centric corps and the rest being indy, you start to realize how so few of them really have what it takes to succeed. The writing is literally on the wall.

Just because a CEO has alot of SPs doesn't mean he has good leadership skills. That comes from RL experience. Skillpoints are measurable. Leadership is not so easily measured.


Congrats to Isador to building his from 2 to 60. I took over my corp from the previous CEO and built mine from 20 to 100 :)

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2010.12.14 06:12:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Deen Wispa on 14/12/2010 06:16:39

Originally by: Shamrock1
Edited by: Shamrock1 on 11/12/2010 00:23:54
enter the era of the griefer??Very Happy

So what I propose is go find your nearest noob corp with that noob CEO and dec them. Go to war and show that CEO they're incompetence and inexperience, then offer them mercy in the form of a merger. Show that corp what it means to have a corp with bigger ambitions and exasperation's.


Ha. That's a good one. I've had a couple leave my corp only to either start their own or to continue to corp hop. They think they can do better but we all know they don't have the balls to do so much less the charisma and leadership skills. That's just moar for us.

On a side note, it be interesting to do a survey that collects the demographics of the CEOs of corps and alliances and see what commonalities if any are present.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2010.12.14 08:33:00 - [12]
 

Would love to see some stats from CCP about the growth of number of players and growth of number of player corps in Eve since it's inception. Line graph ftw

Alekseyev Karrde
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.12.14 15:50:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Veriasse Valence
Of course, you may see my attempt as another one of the half assed tries. We'll see whether it turns out to be or not, but I dont need your approval to continue. :)


That's pretty much the response of the half assed CEO's you target in your OP. I dont know you or anything about your corp so I'm not saying you are, I'm just saying you've answered your own question about why the larger problem persists.

Idiots create Generic Mission/Mining/PVP Corp 1857872 with no unique philosophy, no strategy to fill an underserved area of the market, no unique tactics, no unique organizing principle or identity, no unique combination of resources/political connections that would set them apart, and/or the leadership isnt willing to put in the work to get things done. Whatever they are doing is being done by multiple existing corps with more members, stability, resources, and vision. Then they wonder why people wont join them instead of Generic Mission/Mining/PVP Corps 1-1857871, and get all "well I dont need anyones approval I'll do it my own way" when the answer is pointed out to them.

Too many want to wear the crown just to look good in a mirror, instead of what is best for their game play, their buisniess, and/or their members if they were lucky enough to get any.

And since we're waving the CEO peen, started with 1 member and now up to 85 and climbing.

Veriasse Valence
Gallente
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2010.12.14 16:13:00 - [14]
 

I've played the CEO game before, and as a several month old noob char built a nice little high sec indy corp with 25 or so people. That was fun, and also several years ago. I've had my time in 0.0 (actually have one of your corpses from the Provi days Aleks hehe) and done alot of management stuff. If you are really curious as to whether or not I am full of BS I posted a short little bio in the public sections of the Axitek forums, easy to reach via:

http://axitek.blogspot.com

I dont even want to get into RL epeen measurements, but I am not inexperienced in leadership and management there. I enjoy the challenges of it, I find very few other things in EVE are nearly so fulfilling as building an organization.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.12.14 16:27:00 - [15]
 

From the standpoint of someone who makes new corps and alliances for a fee, the one annoying thing about corp creation is that character names, corp names and alliance names are all on the same database.

Often it takes several tries, many punctuation marks and several numbers substituted for letters when naming a new alliance because some cracker who quit eve back in 2004 had a character or alt corp with the same name as the one you desire for your new alliance. Would be nice if people killed off their characters and closed their corps before leaving permanently.

Noxford
Caldari
Supersedeas
Posted - 2010.12.14 16:27:00 - [16]
 

I've been recruiting an average of 5 people per week.

You need to realize what people are looking for. No one wants to apply to a banana-stand. No one wants to work for a brand new car wash place with no business.

EVE players are looking for very specific things and unless you have a fresh idea with the support to prove you can bring your 'promises' to fruition people will not flock to your new corp.

You're right; there are too many people creating half-ass 'corps' and not enough real organizations that support its members.

FTMP, EVE is currently PLAYER BEWARE when doing anything... unless it's fresh, flashy, looks like it works, has a good agenda and has great activity... it's destined to be ignored and overlooked.

Why would someone work for McDonalds when Google will hire them?

Germaldi's Dad
Caldari
The Motley Crew Reborn
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2010.12.14 19:07:00 - [17]
 

i wish ccp would purge all the old closed corp names & tickers so they can be reused.

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2010.12.14 19:40:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Veriasse Valence


http://axitek.blogspot.com

I dont even want to get into RL epeen measurements, but I am not inexperienced in leadership and management there. I enjoy the challenges of it, I find very few other things in EVE are nearly so fulfilling as building an organization.


Very true. Sometimes I find that building the organization is more fun than the other activities be it pvp, pve, trade or whatever. That enjoyment will help you get through the tough times.

Nice site btw.

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2010.12.14 19:43:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Noxford


Why would someone work for McDonalds when Google will hire them?


Because not everyone is qualified to work for Google :)

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2010.12.14 22:06:00 - [20]
 

Another side effect of too many corps is that if you have one corp with 60 members or more is gonna get war decced alot. It kinda discourages corps from getting large

Minclark
Amarr
The Fimbriani
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2010.12.15 00:36:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Farham



Good corporations don't have problems recruiting, not back when and not today.

Use that as you may.


wasn't I your only real recruit ever? shhh

Terrigal
Minmatar
Dissolution Of Eternity
Posted - 2010.12.15 02:56:00 - [22]
 

your right "all corps that have no active members" should be perged after 2 years of inactivity, Players arent deleted just the corp name and ticker.

I'm a CEO on this char have tried to recruit recently and its dam difficult now - my corp is 3 years old, it has had over 100 members at one stage now has stuff all (most have left the game) the ones that have stayed are mostly pirates now.

When my alt used to run the corp/alliance 2 years ago it wasnt so hard to get members into a mission running corp. Now its plain dismal to get new members and trials no body wants due to the time it takes to train newbies and more often than not they leave after 2 weeks anyway.

My alt is now in a major 0.0 corp/allaince and is a recruiter for the corp and at any one stage there'd be 20+ applications for the corp. If you dont have 20mil sp dont even bother applying.

So it begs the question where do all the gone past trial members go? I'd say into there own one man corp to avoid the npc tax charges.

Veriasse Valence
Gallente
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2010.12.15 03:10:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Veriasse Valence on 15/12/2010 03:14:35
Originally by: Deen Wispa
Very true. Sometimes I find that building the organization is more fun than the other activities be it pvp, pve, trade or whatever. That enjoyment will help you get through the tough times.

Nice site btw.


Thanks! If you've got any commentary or feedback I'd love to hear it.

I think clearing out old corps and names is a great idea. Provide a grace period of a month or something before you purge and give people the chance to save unused corps or chars they are holding onto purposefully.

I also believe there are likely a large number of one or two man corps. I wonder if its possible to get access to the data and break down corps by membership and total quantity.

Lakhthaar
Gallente
STK Scientific
IT Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.16 23:11:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Lakhthaar on 16/12/2010 23:12:37
I agree with the OP in large part.

I also agree that it isn't that hard for a good corporation to find good recruits.

The problem with so many corporations is that the middle management types are few and far between. There are a lot of people that would make good managers and directors in older and more established corporations. However, they have their own ambitions. They're looking to create their own legacy, rather than be a part of an existing one.

It takes a solid team of management to establish and maintain a good corporation. There just doesn't seem to be enough candidates to go around. Too few people burdened with too many tasks.





Le Soltueur
Gallente
Original Sin.
Underworld Excavators
Posted - 2010.12.17 15:14:00 - [25]
 

One of the best ways to attract people to your corporation is word of mouth.

Don't just "tell" people what you do. Show them. This generates <insert appropriate reaction here> and generates interest. Interest generates more interest.

How many times have you seen someone looking at something and then think to yourself "I wonder what they're looking at..." only to find yourself (and others) looking at it too?

Same concept. Finding members is easy. Finding GOOD members is difficult. Finding GOOD members and KEEPING them, is something entirely different.

We've got about 20 people in our corp. Most of them have been with me since the beginning. Most of them before that. All of them empowered and valued in their own uniquely identifiable way. And they know it. I don't want a huge corp. In fact, I'm quite happy with the size of our corp. Find the right mix of people and you might find that too.

Solty


Veriasse Valence
Gallente
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2010.12.18 15:53:00 - [26]
 

An update:

I held a meeting with the Axitek Directorate, where we discussed the progression of our growth plan and the future. We are to date off track by a great deal, and one of the main members of the Directorate is going to take an extended break. As such, we've decided to put the vision of Axitek on hold indefinitely.

I personally am feeling disappointed, but not surprised. A lot of people like the idea of starting a corp where they call the shots, but so few actually realize the amount of work it is to do right. Even I was having doubts that I could effectively juggle being CEO as the corp grew, but I was intending to have a developed management team in place to help me.

So you will all be happy to hear this corp won't become another half assed bloodsucker of an entity. On that note, guess I best wander off to recruitment!

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.12.19 16:37:00 - [27]
 

Make every corp pay a monthly maintenance bill just like an alliance. Eventually all the failed startups will start disappearing. Plus corp thieves and spies could have a field day.

Taram Caldar
Caldari
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2010.12.19 17:28:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Taram Caldar on 19/12/2010 17:33:15
Originally by: Veriasse Valence
Edited by: Veriasse Valence on 10/12/2010 15:37:17
Edited by: Veriasse Valence on 10/12/2010 15:33:57
Edit: WIP

Do we have a problem of saturation? In years past when recruiting I've not noticed any major difficulty in meeting new candidates. It seemed like people were out there and looking for places to be. Fast forward from 2008 to 2010, and my experiences in recruiting so far at the end of this year have been dismal.

I continually hear from CCP in interviews through venues like Lost in EVE that they are working on ways to help newcomers find corporations, and that this is supposedly a big problem... But I disagree fully. In fact, I think there are so many people with a half ass dream of running their own corporation that we've hit a stage now where there are far more corps competing for people than there are people looking for corps.

Whaddya think?


I've never had any problems recruiting... You're relying too much on CCP to do things for you I think. I do agree that far too many people start corps 'just to look cool' with no real clue of what they want to do with the corp or where they want to go with it. Many who start corps don't really want to put in any effort and I will go so far as to say that 90% of the people who start empire (highsec) corps are only doing so so they can implement taxes to fatten their own wallets rather than forming a corp with the intent of some goal or to help their pilots in some way.

If you put forth the effort, take the time and set goals for yourself and your pilots and your corp as a whole and stick to them, reach them and abide by the promises you make to your pilots you will have no trouble finding pilots.

A good corp never has trouble getting pilots.

Zdrahonul Gallentor
Gallente
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2010.12.19 23:45:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Taram Caldar

I've never had any problems recruiting... You're relying too much on CCP to do things for you I think. I do agree that far too many people start corps 'just to look cool' with no real clue of what they want to do with the corp or where they want to go with it. Many who start corps don't really want to put in any effort and I will go so far as to say that 90% of the people who start empire (highsec) corps are only doing so so they can implement taxes to fatten their own wallets rather than forming a corp with the intent of some goal or to help their pilots in some way.

If you put forth the effort, take the time and set goals for yourself and your pilots and your corp as a whole and stick to them, reach them and abide by the promises you make to your pilots you will have no trouble finding pilots.

A good corp never has trouble getting pilots.


^^^ This.

Somal Thunder
Minmatar
Martyr's Vengence
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.12.23 01:48:00 - [30]
 

Stop whining because all the members in your corp are trials.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only