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blankseplocked Shield Upgrades 5...worth it?
 
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Minmatar Terrorist
Posted - 2010.12.07 22:33:00 - [1]
 

Is it often that 5% off power grid for modules requiring that skill make or break a fitting? I haven't done all that much research on matter as I'm more often cpu locked (and I have the optimal skills for that category).

But I'm being refunded 2.5 million sp and am remapped Perception/Willpower so I figure this is my chance to polish off the Memory/Int skills.

Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.12.07 22:51:00 - [2]
 

I've had some fits that wouldn't fit a T2 shield extender on it without, dropping to meta 4 reduces your EHP some-what.

IoWalker
Posted - 2010.12.07 23:51:00 - [3]
 

You haven't provided enough background to your game situation. Are you in PVP all the time? Where are you in your current remap? Have you reached a goal of specialization to the point that you are at least considering "topping off" some basic skills? Do you fly mainly active/passive shield fits?

If the answer is generally "yes" then train it.

Misanthra
Posted - 2010.12.07 23:54:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Misanthra on 07/12/2010 23:55:40
Eft some dream ship fits (stuff you'd like to fly for a bit) and see how bad power is on them. Or if in a corp/alliance...take time to eft up all fleet fits you'll be able to fly somewhat soon and see what happens.


I for example did this and for most ships pg not an issue. If an issue, something this wouldn't fix at 5...or the fleet fits fixed with an obligatory ACR.

TBH if looking at power grid, I'd look more at AWU 5 if not there already. Better pve fits are usually less tank more gank fits anyway (I like them anyway...can't tank rat BS' to death lol) and for pvp its almost the same setup. Get to t2 weapons bs level, full rack of t2 large weapons...this will kill your pg much faster than shield mods.

Demolishar
Posted - 2010.12.08 09:08:00 - [5]
 

If you fly stuff that uses LSE then by all means train it.

Curse, Vagabond, and Drake come to mind.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.08 09:50:00 - [6]
 

Penalty reductions are one of the most under-rated 'bonuses' in the game. People tend to notice the Weapon Upgrades/Imp Weapon upgrades, and don't start thinking about things like shield upgrades or the rig skills until they're optimizing.

I'd actually put this at a decently high priority, right behind unlocking equipment you want, assuming you actually use shield upgrades modules. Indirect freeing up of fitting space gives you a flexibility that can make you much deadlier in PvP.

Short version: Yes. And train the rig skill for your favored rig types up to 4 or 5 as well.

Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2010.12.08 09:52:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 08/12/2010 09:53:06
Originally by: Minmatar Terrorist
Is it often that 5% off power grid for modules requiring that skill make or break a fitting? I haven't done all that much research on matter as I'm more often cpu locked (and I have the optimal skills for that category).

But I'm being refunded 2.5 million sp and am remapped Perception/Willpower so I figure this is my chance to polish off the Memory/Int skills.

*shrugs* It's one of those fitting skills. If you fly a lot of ships with shield extenders, by all means train it (I trained it too). Especially as you fit size+1 extenders you can save some valuable PG, especially on rather tightly fitted ships.

Medium: you save 1.55 PG per MSE II
Large: you save 8.25 PG per LSE II

Hauling Hal
The Black Ops
Posted - 2010.12.08 13:42:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Hauling Hal on 08/12/2010 13:42:54
Shield Upgrades V (from IV) gave me more extra Power Grid than Advanced Weapon Upgrades V from IV.

Tandin
The Knights Templar
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.12.08 16:29:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Hauling Hal
Edited by: Hauling Hal on 08/12/2010 13:42:54
Shield Upgrades V (from IV) gave me more extra Power Grid than Advanced Weapon Upgrades V from IV.


It's all perspective.. If you fly a lot of shield tanking ships then I can see it providing benefit. However, if you fly both shield and armor AWU 5 is probably more useful because it applies to either equally. Either way, train both because fitting skills are NEVER bad. Even if you're an armor tanker, you never know when you're going to feel the urge to hop into a drake or similar shield tank and having the skills in place is useful.

In every race I can think of at least a couple examples of ships that buck the trend in terms of tanking style (curse and ishtar shield tanking, scorpion armor tanking). So this isn't a crosstraining thing so much as a good boyscout "be prepared" thing.

AterraX
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.08 18:08:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Tandin
Originally by: Hauling Hal
Edited by: Hauling Hal on 08/12/2010 13:42:54
Shield Upgrades V (from IV) gave me more extra Power Grid than Advanced Weapon Upgrades V from IV.


It's all perspective.. If you fly a lot of shield tanking ships then I can see it providing benefit. However, if you fly both shield and armor AWU 5 is probably more useful because it applies to either equally. Either way, train both because fitting skills are NEVER bad. Even if you're an armor tanker, you never know when you're going to feel the urge to hop into a drake or similar shield tank and having the skills in place is useful.

In every race I can think of at least a couple examples of ships that buck the trend in terms of tanking style (curse and ishtar shield tanking, scorpion armor tanking). So this isn't a crosstraining thing so much as a good boyscout "be prepared" thing.



Just train them both to 5...problem solved.

Shoogie
Caldari
Serious Pixels
Posted - 2010.12.08 19:45:00 - [11]
 

I'd like to disagree with most of the posters here and say that it is not a high priority skill. It only gives a noticable benefit on ships that fit shield extenders, and then only if the fit is limited by powergrid rather than CPU. On the other hand, AWU works on every ship, and the weapons on a ship usually use a lot more powergrid than the shields.

Level 5 does not unlock any new modules and is not a prerequisite for any other skills. So, you can live with it at level 4 for a long time.

Sure, you will eventually want to get level 5, but I would not make it a priority until you have a specific fit in mind that needs just a handfull more grid.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.09 00:57:00 - [12]
 

If you're even half-way serious about shield-tanking, you'll need Shield Upgrades V. Consider it a core skill. It's not just for Shield Extenders, but for all Shield Resistance Amplifiers. So, take a typical Drake; fit 2x Shield Extenders, and one or two Magnetic Shield Amps, and voila, it adds up rapidly.

There are things that maybe you won't need to Lv V immediately; like Shield Rigging (I have it at Lv V, though), as you can maybe live with a slightly larger sig for a while. But Launcher Rigging, for example, really is something you want at Lv V per se (as Caldari). I'd say: any engineering/mechanic skill that takes away from your CPU/Powergrid, you'll want at Lv V. It may not look like much now, but try and fit a Tengu or so: (depending on the config) you'll soon enough find yourself in need of max CPU/Powergrid.

Indeed, AWU V, taking ca. 19 days, is an absolute requirement too; but there's no point in training that -- as a shield tanker -- only to skimp on something as trivial, but nevertheless very much needed, as Shield Upgrades V.

Shoogie
Caldari
Serious Pixels
Posted - 2010.12.09 01:39:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Shoogie on 09/12/2010 01:40:25
Originally by: Ranka Mei
If you're even half-way serious about shield-tanking, you'll need Shield Upgrades V. Consider it a core skill. It's not just for Shield Extenders, but for all Shield Resistance Amplifiers. So, take a typical Drake; fit 2x Shield Extenders, and one or two Magnetic Shield Amps, and voila, it adds up rapidly.


First of all, the typical drake uses shield hardeners which are not affected by this skill. Resistance amplifiers are only used when you expect to be neuted.

Secondly, the typical drake uses heavy missiles and is limited by CPU, not powergrid. True, the HAM drake is powergrid limited, but that is not a common fit.

Finally, resistance amplifiers take only 1 MW before skills. So going from Shield Upgrades 4 to Shield Upgrades 5 saves a whopping 0.05 MW. This is nothing on a drake with 850 base grid. The 8.25 grid saved per LSE II is at least something.

Yeah, it's a good skill to get eventually, but it's not as core as most of you are making out. I consider shield rigging 5 to reduce your signature radius much better.

Edit: oh by the way I do fly a Tengu, but I use neither expanders nor restance amplifiers, so this skill does nothing for my Tengu fit.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.09 02:16:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Shoogie
Edited by: Shoogie on 09/12/2010 01:40:25
Originally by: Ranka Mei
If you're even half-way serious about shield-tanking, you'll need Shield Upgrades V. Consider it a core skill. It's not just for Shield Extenders, but for all Shield Resistance Amplifiers. So, take a typical Drake; fit 2x Shield Extenders, and one or two Magnetic Shield Amps, and voila, it adds up rapidly.


First of all, the typical drake uses shield hardeners which are not affected by this skill. Resistance amplifiers are only used when you expect to be neuted.

Secondly, the typical drake uses heavy missiles and is limited by CPU, not powergrid. True, the HAM drake is powergrid limited, but that is not a common fit.

Finally, resistance amplifiers take only 1 MW before skills. So going from Shield Upgrades 4 to Shield Upgrades 5 saves a whopping 0.05 MW. This is nothing on a drake with 850 base grid. The 8.25 grid saved per LSE II is at least something.

Yeah, it's a good skill to get eventually, but it's not as core as most of you are making out. I consider shield rigging 5 to reduce your signature radius much better.

Edit: oh by the way I do fly a Tengu, but I use neither expanders nor restance amplifiers, so this skill does nothing for my Tengu fit.


That's because a Tengu is primarily Active tanked. :)

As for the Drake, with Shield Purger rigs + Shield Power Relay II's, one can become strapped for cap real fast (when you don't have maxed-out cap skills yet). For the longest time I flew it with 1x Invul, plus a Magnetic Scattering Amp (and nowadays just with 2x Invuls).

AstarothPrime
Posted - 2010.12.10 23:06:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: AstarothPrime on 10/12/2010 23:06:30
If you fly caldari ships - yes, otherwise - not.

I.

Edit - oh yea - dont even try to fit a good shield buffer pvp frigate without it.

I.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.12.11 12:50:00 - [16]
 

You will need it for some Minmatar fits.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.12 11:47:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
You will need it for some Minmatar fits.


Yeah, if you don't have it for Sabre then you'll have a difficult time fitting.

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2010.12.12 17:17:00 - [18]
 

It is needed for some rifter fits with MSE, as well as for the Vaga with 220s and 2 LSE IIs. Think it helps on the stabber and cane as well.

Is it high priority? Sure, if the fit you want to use requires it.

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.12.12 23:22:00 - [19]
 

I'm a sucker for fitting skills so I got it a long time ago. Though that was in the nano-age and everyone and their neighbour's dog were flying passive shield tanked nanoships with extenders. Truth to be told, it barely ever really makes the difference. It's a nice thing to have out of the way though and with perfect fitting skills you never have to worry about whether you can actually fit some setup. Also it's not that long/doesn't require that many skillpoints.

Sigaar
Posted - 2010.12.13 11:09:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Sigaar on 13/12/2010 11:15:29
Quote:
Shield Upgrades 5...worth it?

No.

General rule for this case would be:
1. Learn skills to sit into a ship with t1 fit.
2. Learn skills to sit into a ship with t2 (some meta4 mix if fitting issues arise) fit.
3. Learn all support skills to IV. (III will do in some cases)
4. Learn important support skills (that unlock other skills) to V. Like weapon upgrades V etc. And those skills that were unlocked in the process to IV like AWU IV, weapon spec IV etc (at this point you will be able to fit t2 without any pg/mw issues most likely).
5. All other support skills to V if you are really into this ship and this race, else crosstrain to smth else.
While at it i would rather train support skills that increase my damage in the first place, seeing as my tank is prolly sufficient at this point.

Shield upgrades V fits in "other support skills" in my book and it doesnt increase my damage.


 

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