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blankseplocked No more than a point and click adventure - What's so good about Eve?
 
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Munog
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:16:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Munog on 14/01/2005 14:16:54
Hi all, I've hit a brick wall trying to persuade a friend of mind about the allure of Eve. (And to be honest, I'm questioning why I like it now too)

Bearing in mind he's also and old school Elite: Frontier fan, his argument could be summarised as follows.

"Eve is no more than a point and click, text based, space adventure, the only point being to mine enough to have a bigger ship than everyone else. I may as well leave a trained monkey to click the mouse occasionally and get on with proper work".

Discuss....

Pel Mel
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:18:00 - [2]
 

i need to get a trained monkey...Wink

Geofferic Sidharttha
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:18:00 - [3]
 

Your friend has apparently not tried using any skills other than mining?


Eve is not going to be an in-the-cockpit Tie Fighter clone any time soon ...

Nomeshta
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:19:00 - [4]
 

Was the monkey trained using Outcome-Based or Adaptive Problem-Based Learning?

I've found training monkeys to be very difficult.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:22:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Nomeshta
Was the monkey trained using Outcome-Based or Adaptive Problem-Based Learning?

I've found training monkeys to be very difficult.


Get more monkeys, eventually the train each other.

Minmatar are a good example of this.

Gunner Stahl
United Kings
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:23:00 - [6]
 

Sounds like your friend read the MegaGames review... Laughing


Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:31:00 - [7]
 

leave my army of trained monkeys out of this.

seriously, if he thinks eve is that simple, you would be wrong. Any game is 'point and click' its the decisions you make leading to where you point and when you click that make the difference.

yes eve is not a game like frontier, it doesnt have interactive AI or a plotline where you are the star of the show and you cant save game and go back when you die or have tea with the thargoids.

the difference is the AI comes from real people, and that to many is the attraction of MMOG's and why the industry is growing.


Dust Puppy
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:42:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Avon

Get more monkeys, eventually the train each other.

Minmatar are a good example of this.


ROFL Laughing

ThorsHmr
Gallente
Viscosity
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:43:00 - [9]
 

Sounds like your friend is a bit too conservative minded for a game like this. I mean, after all, it does take just a small amount of imagination to have fun here.

And we also know that "conservative minded" and "fun" are two words that absolutely cannot, in any way-shape-or means, be put into the same sentence....about the same person.

Might I suggest a nice game of freecell? Twisted Evil

Seriously tho......get your friend into the middle of some pvp action. Drop him out of warp in the middle of a gate camp and tell him to live for 3 minutes....or better yet, get away or even kill the ship(s) attacking him. I'm sure his opinion will change.

If not.....the hearts game is usually just below freecell in the dropdown Wink

Calsak
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:48:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Calsak on 14/01/2005 14:51:08
Originally by: Munog
"I may as well leave a trained monkey to click the mouse occasionally and get on with proper work".

Mmmmmm.....Would CCP consider using a trained Monkey as a macro?

Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:55:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Calsak
Edited by: Calsak on 14/01/2005 14:51:08
Originally by: Munog
"I may as well leave a trained monkey to click the mouse occasionally and get on with proper work".

Mmmmmm.....Would CCP consider using a trained Monkey as a macro?



I guess not, as long as it cant do your work better then you ofc Wink

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2005.01.14 14:57:00 - [12]
 

If you start your Eve Online gaming experience by mining, you will likely be soured on the game before you get to try anything else. I haven't mined an ounce of ore since activating this account, because it's way more fun to earn money through sexually charged criminal acts.

I wish the devs listened to my suggestion regarding improving mining in beta - if asteroids screamed in pain while you mined them, it'd be way more fun.

Geofferic Sidharttha
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2005.01.14 15:03:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: ThorsHmr

And we also know that "conservative minded" and "fun" are two words that absolutely cannot, in any way-shape-or means, be put into the same sentence....about the same person.



Hey, flaunting your ignorance is not becoming.

Supermonkey
Minmatar
Project Chaos
Posted - 2005.01.14 15:03:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: Calsak
Edited by: Calsak on 14/01/2005 14:51:08
Originally by: Munog
"I may as well leave a trained monkey to click the mouse occasionally and get on with proper work".

Mmmmmm.....Would CCP consider using a trained Monkey as a macro?



I guess not, as long as it cant do your work better then you ofc Wink

I'm pretty sure us monkeys are on top of the evolution process in the year 23236, compared to you primitive human beings out of the year 2005 Very Happy

WTS: macro-humans, can left and right click mouse and memorize up to 20 different key/mouse movement combinations.

Erai
Minmatar
Posted - 2005.01.14 15:30:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Erai on 14/01/2005 17:21:57
Ah, Elite Frontier. I kinda liked that one... pretty graphics for its time, but man, the Newtonian physics were annoying! When you were flying at very high speeds, it would take forever to break, and maneuvering would be next to impossible... which would also make combat as realistic as slow and unexiting. (which is: probably very realistic)
But oh well, in the end the only really important thing that Frontier missed was Ian Bell.

But ok, we are talking about Eve here, not Frontier. And Eve has a couple of things that make it quite different from FFE:

-First, obviously the MMO part and the RPG part.
-Second, in Eve you can be ánything you put your mind and effort into.
-Third, the economy is dynamic and complex and even makes some semblance of sense.
-Fourth, the setting is dynamic and there is actually a detailed backstory.
-Fifth, If you can train your monkey to put together good loadouts, he will have hours of tinkering fun, what with hundreds of gadgets to put in your ship Wink

I will probably think up and edit in a couple more arguments soonish.

... like -sixth: Eve is the only MMORPG in which it ir really possible to win by outhinking other players... if you do not agree with this one it is probably because you have not outthought other players yet Wink

PS: deeeevs, I want Thargoids! I wanna! I wannawannawannaaaaaaaa! Very Happy

Munog
Posted - 2005.01.14 15:40:00 - [16]
 

Some interesting points and some not so helpful ones too...

Quote:
Seriously tho......get your friend into the middle of some pvp action. Drop him out of warp in the middle of a gate camp and tell him to live for 3 minutes....or better yet, get away or even kill the ship(s) attacking him. I'm sure his opinion will change.
Hmmm ... but again his point is that even combat is a matter of 'Click targets, hit fire. Sit back and see who has biggest guns. There's no skill to it'
Quote:
the difference is the AI comes from real people, and that to many is the attraction of MMOG's and why the industry is growing.
I'd agree completely, this is the main area I've been enjoying over the past couple of days.
Quote:
Sounds like your friend is a bit too conservative minded for a game like this. I mean, after all, it does take just a small amount of imagination to have fun here.
Your argument is fallacious. Answer the question, dont attack the questioner. (FYI he's far from conservative and is an avid player of many other current RTS's and RPG's, in fact he's probably a bigger fan of the genre than me)

Ghost Red
The Scope
Posted - 2005.01.14 15:40:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Munog
Edited by: Munog on 14/01/2005 14:16:54
Hi all, I've hit a brick wall trying to persuade a friend of mind about the allure of Eve. (And to be honest, I'm questioning why I like it now too)

Bearing in mind he's also and old school Elite: Frontier fan, his argument could be summarised as follows.

"Eve is no more than a point and click, text based, space adventure, the only point being to mine enough to have a bigger ship than everyone else. I may as well leave a trained monkey to click the mouse occasionally and get on with proper work".

Discuss....


I'm just on my way out of Eve (ie, sub is lapsing soon, have uninstalled the game) after 2 years playing, and all I'll say is what makes this game is the people, the community. When you're mining as a noob or an experienced player, try talking to other people in local. I had some great conversations doing this, and met some great people by doing this when I first started out. The key to playing a game like Eve is meeting people. Don't live in a fricking bubble where you just go about things by rote.

As for the getting a bigger ship end game argument, thats pure crap. In all the time I played Eve, I flew frigates 95% of the time and had a blast in them. Big ships do not necessarily equate to more enjoyment. But what Eve really boils down to is friends. Mining is boring solo, its considerably less boring with a load of friends.

When you stop worrying about acquiring leet mods and trying to make piles of cash, you find Eve becomes a much more interesting game.


MegaJ
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.01.14 15:55:00 - [18]
 

All I can say is get into PVP bigtime and a whole different and much better EVE will open up to you than when ur just trying to make cash mining or something related. Adrenaline rush guarenteed when u kill some1 for the first time 1 vs 1... Cool

Lallante
Reikoku
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2005.01.14 15:56:00 - [19]
 

PvP is what makes this game special.

Whether in ship to ship combat, or cornering a market niche, this is what makes it fun.

MiracleMaker
Caldari
Devious Assassins
Posted - 2005.01.14 16:08:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Munog
Some interesting points and some not so helpful ones too...

Hmmm ... but again his point is that even combat is a matter of 'Click targets, hit fire. Sit back and see who has biggest guns. There's no skill to it'


FYI he's far from conservative and is an avid player of many other current RTS's and RPG's, in fact he's probably a bigger fan of the genre than me



Aren't rpg's based on rolling dice to see who wins in the end? You're friend being an avid rpg'r should know that. You mindlessly grind away killing orc's to get experience points and gold to buy bigger swords. Roll 6 for the win.

This game is about the big picture, you're not alone in the universe. Do what you want to do. I think if he got through a month of Eve he might just really like it.

In Eve, You are NOT your SHIP. (Remember Robotech?, and all the casualties that the SDF-1 had when it was attacked? Remember those images next time your BS gets attacked)

ddss
Posted - 2005.01.14 16:09:00 - [21]
 

  1. has your friend stayed for hours in system to mine bistot ?

    Have your friend fought battle with over 50 ppl in it ?

    Have your friend travelled around the galaxy just to kill a lonely miner ?

    Have your friend sold his minerals, seeing his wallet sky rocket ?

    Have your friend built anything in the game

    Have your friend LAGGED to death in eve ?


if the answear is "no" to any of this.....then he should change his opinion. (well, he dont play, so he can't really judge the game.)

But all those have happent to me many times.
and it always feels like the first time :P (the feeling, the joy, the anger, the pain, the sorrow)

Tell your friend about that.

EVE is more then just clicking around, EVE is lifestyle

Frank Horrigan
Vault 35
Posted - 2005.01.14 16:12:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Nomeshta
Was the monkey trained using Outcome-Based or Adaptive Problem-Based Learning?

I've found training monkeys to be very difficult.


Get more monkeys, eventually the train each other.

Minmatar are a good example of this.



roflcopter dude. roflcopter.

flummox
Posted - 2005.01.14 16:13:00 - [23]
 

you should play because you can become famous like me or daniel jackson or viceroy or that one guy who bl0wd up one of the devs...

Koda
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.01.14 16:41:00 - [24]
 

The "Who has the biggest guns wins" argument sounds like someone who's never Pvp'd. This statement ignores tactics, loadouts (other than max damage) and the possibility that you have 5 mates one system over waiting to omgwtfbbq the other guy.

How many cruisers have been lost to solo frigates? How many battleships have fallen to intie packs?

1 on 1 same-class fights are chess matches involving far more than strapping firepower to your ship. Who's got EW? Who's tanked better?

Lilan Kahn
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2005.01.14 17:08:00 - [25]
 

there is almost no reason too get a bigger ship than frigats if you know how too work as a team thats prety much all im gonna say

frigat pirats 4TW

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2005.01.14 17:13:00 - [26]
 

"Hmmm ... but again his point is that even combat is a matter of 'Click targets, hit fire. Sit back and see who has biggest guns. There's no skill to it'"

Couldn't be farther from the truth, considering that "who has the biggest guns" will be unable to hit anything but the biggest targets most of the time ;s

There's no +6 Sword of WTFPWN in Eve.

Harisdrop
Gallente
Vindicate and Deliverance
Posted - 2005.01.14 17:15:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: flummox
you should play because you can become famous like me or daniel jackson or viceroy or that one guy who bl0wd up one of the devs...


Or think you are more of that than anyone else and actually think you can make a slightest of difference.

If anyone is famous its ME!

Kerm
Gallente
Turbulent Subversion
Posted - 2005.01.14 17:32:00 - [28]
 

Eve is special because it has so many paths to follow, but in order to really get the best of this game you have to work hard and try pretty much everything. This takes a long time but if your friend sticks with it & trains his skills to where he wants to go he wont be sorry. Neither will you.

Theres so much to do in this game if you go looking for it. I to was a BIG Elite fan, but i longed for a day when maybe someone would make a game like Elite where you could mine, fight, dock at stations, build stuff, but it would be online and you could talk with thousands of people. Well CCP made that dream come true. Elite took a long time to get into also, trading things for cash to buy that warp drive to go to another system so you could get a beter ship to do better things. Eve is just like that. Except you have many people around you to help you out if you get stuck.

Why have i stayed with Eve for over a year now? Simple, iam a sci-fi geek with no life Laughing But the truth aside Rolling Eyes...I put in a lot of hard work & I have built up a corp with a real life friend and we are now running stronger than before. Eventully we might join an alliance or just keep taking that risk of venturing into 0.0 space to hit NPC's or get chased by pirates. Possibilities are many & i for one dont want to give it all up yet.

I dont know if you guys are in a corp yet or if you are what type of corp, ask yourself what do you want to do in this game? Go look for a corp that does that, make some friends, have a good time, learn from the experianced players. Eve was built for the casual or hardcore gamer, which ever you are iam sure if you stay a little longer in Eve you can find out for yourself how good this game really is.

Roue
Rush Industries
Posted - 2005.01.14 17:41:00 - [29]
 

I wrote this for my gaming community. It had a measure of success. It's more of a humor/rant comparison of what I consider the tedium of all other MMO's out there because they don't hold value to actions or the simple manner of consequence.

it was put on the page www.sghq.com/eve and is the 5th article down, titled by the web admin "Reflections on Eve"

It may assist. When I explain to people the value of EVE to me I also regard that not everyone is an EVE style player. Some people refuse to realize the value of effort and loss, of risk and reward. It is the foundation of this game, what makes it excell. Same reason a boy who spends all summer washing dishes for his first car loves that car more then the boy who gets his car handed down by his dad.

Every other game out there has reduced the risk to allow the casual gamer to participate in what has been reduced to a graphical sensation of inevitablility. Exploration I would regard in every game but Eve has no sense of adventure for there is no sense of peril. You are weighted in your actions only by a measure of inconvenience and your intellect is unencouraged and left to wither. You are free to jump off a mt if the humor strikes you and suffer instant death. How many of us have done that repeatedly in other MMO's. Why? Because it doesn't matter and it's just that boring you become childish as you try stretch the padded walls of your cell.

If you like Sorry or trouble over Risk or Stratego you are a prime canidate for not playing EVE. =P

Hope you enjoy my personal opinions. Eve is the last MMO I'll play for a game, the others I play now and then while training level 5's for the flash glamor of watching a movie.

Phades
Posted - 2005.01.14 17:52:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: j0sephine
There's no +6 Sword of WTFPWN in Eve.


Er wait, i thought i saw that under cruise missle in the munchkin guide to power gaming! Razz


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