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Dan Grobag
Caldari
Grobag's Family
Posted - 2010.12.07 20:28:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Dan Grobag on 07/12/2010 20:30:32
I just saw the stock of planetary vehicles cut in two or three at jita.

What's happening here ?
Will they go up to their true price now ?
Will integrity response drones go up in price too ?

Tasko Pal
Aliastra
Posted - 2010.12.07 20:39:00 - [2]
 

I figured out what was wrong with all those other manipulation threads. They weren't about goods I've been stockpiling. Plz fix.

GO LONG planetary vehicles!

Berikath
Posted - 2010.12.07 22:37:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Dan Grobag
Edited by: Dan Grobag on 07/12/2010 20:30:32
I just saw the stock of planetary vehicles cut in two or three at jita.

What's happening here ?
It's called a manipulation thread.
As to the plan. vehics, either nothing at all happened and you're trying to create a scare...
OR... the guys who buy them from mission runners got bored and forgot to haul them to Jita this past weekend.
Quote:
Will they go up to their true price now ?
They were pretty much at their true price already. IMHO, the main factor limiting supply of them is price; namely, the price has to be high enough to make it worthwhile to bring a hauler to the mission site and move 6,000 m3 of them.
Quote:
Will integrity response drones go up in price too ?
No.

Kragaar
Posted - 2010.12.07 23:20:00 - [4]
 

The mission Enemies Abound 4 stopped dropping 1,000 planetary vehicles a pop so I'm guessing someone bought up as much as they could for cheap in anticipation of the price going up to match the rest of similar tier planetary goods.

Skye Aurorae
Posted - 2010.12.08 00:49:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Kragaar
The mission Enemies Abound 4 stopped dropping 1,000 planetary vehicles a pop so I'm guessing someone bought up as much as they could for cheap in anticipation of the price going up to match the rest of similar tier planetary goods.

I would dearly love confirmation of this mission change if someone has a source.

Arec Bardwin
Posted - 2010.12.08 01:02:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Skye Aurorae

I would dearly love confirmation of this mission change if someone has a source.

Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object
Gallente factories no longer produce planetary vehicles. I blame the economy.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1422703&page=1#29

I can also confirm that the mission objective in EA 4 does not drop any planetary vehicles after patch.

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.12.08 01:16:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kragaar
The mission Enemies Abound 4 stopped dropping 1,000 planetary vehicles a pop so I'm guessing someone bought up as much as they could for cheap in anticipation of the price going up to match the rest of similar tier planetary goods.


I didn't know about the mission factor, but I did buy a lot of PV a little while ago when I saw they were cheap - I looked at their constituent parts (mech parts!), saw those prices were going up, and bought out to wait for a price increase as supply dropped and new goods were made with higher priced materials. Well what do ya know, the price went up as I expected at a nice pace but then suddenly someone manips it to a massive price jump. Suits me just fine, a much bigger profit than I counted on getting originally! Thanks to whoever did this I guess ;)

skye orionis
Posted - 2010.12.08 01:50:00 - [8]
 

And right on cue the entire stock of Planetary Vehicles for sale in The Citadel is snapped up.

DarthCaboose
Posted - 2010.12.08 08:05:00 - [9]
 

Or maybe they're waiting for the day that Dust514 comes out and Planetary Vehicles become SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT!

Cyno Sid
Posted - 2010.12.08 16:30:00 - [10]
 

When stockpiles of previously bought PV's which were originally bought when seeded dry up, which will happen faster now that they have stopped being dropped in missions, they will actually be worth their build price, same as everything else in Eve. Which is currently is around 66k each - so get them while they are hot Very Happy

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2010.12.08 16:40:00 - [11]
 

OK so GM (Gallente Motors) has run into production problems and is no longer producing. Speculators buy up everything in sight for less than 30k, then wait for the price to adjust - the question is, given the quantities produced by mission runners in Motsu and other hubs - how long will it take for the PV market to move towards the true equilibrium price. Based on p1 input the true price should be nearer to 80k.

They're used in most POS components (with Guns, Refining arrays and Moon harvesters being the most common exception), TCUs, SBUs, IHubs and other structures prone to being shot to death occasionally but the piles of PV's from missions are pretty large.

Stocks purchased from NPC's may not be so huge as mech parts, coolant and other goods, the NPC sell orders were pretty small so it took a lot more clicking to buy up huge quantities.

Time to do some math

Berikath
Posted - 2010.12.08 17:28:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Berikath on 08/12/2010 17:29:51
Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
given the quantities produced by mission runners in Motsu and other hubs - how long will it take for the PV market to move towards the true equilibrium price. Based on p1 input the true price should be nearer to 80k.



Now, this is a pre-math guess, but... each time the mission was run, it dropped 1000 vehicles. That is enough for 166 Integrity Response Drones. Considering that (from what I remember) mission hubs would see movement of between 5000 and 20 or 30k a day per hub, that's a lot of Integrity Response Drones.

From what I remember, there were not actually ever any NPC sell orders for PVs; only buy orders. That would seem to suggest lower stockpiles than some other items. However, the tens (possibly even hundreds) of thousands of units created from the mission universe-wide every day still add up. My gut feeling as to the usage total per day is something on the order of 30,000 or less. Also, I feel an estimate of 100k produced a day is on the conservative side of reasonable. Since this went on for.... right around 6 months, I would expect that we'd be looking at stockpiles for at least 1 year.


I'll check some things when I get in-game after work, and might well revise my estimate... but I figure if you're looking to hold PVs until stockpiles run out, it's gonna be quite a wait.


*edit* Also, I was not aware of the removal of PVs from mission drops in my first post. My bad.

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2010.12.08 17:55:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Berikath

From what I remember, there were not actually ever any NPC sell orders for PVs; only buy orders. That would seem to suggest lower stockpiles than some other items.


There were definintly sell orders up, because I remember clicking on them repeatedly to buy them 200 units at a time so I had a decent stockpile.

Una Achura
Posted - 2010.12.08 19:45:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
Originally by: Berikath

From what I remember, there were not actually ever any NPC sell orders for PVs; only buy orders. That would seem to suggest lower stockpiles than some other items.


There were definintly sell orders up, because I remember clicking on them repeatedly to buy them 200 units at a time so I had a decent stockpile.


It never occurred to you to set up a high volume buy order at the maximum NPC sell price? Wink

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2010.12.08 20:34:00 - [15]
 

I'd previously tried something similar with robotics and it hadn't worked.

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
Posted - 2010.12.09 00:06:00 - [16]
 

It's worth noting that Construction Blocks, Guidance Systems, Mechanical Parts and Consumer Electronics are all affected by these changes in some way. Already seeing movement in some of those markets as a result.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.09 05:31:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: corestwo
It's worth noting that Construction Blocks, Guidance Systems, Mechanical Parts and Consumer Electronics are all affected by these changes in some way. Already seeing movement in some of those markets as a result.

And these movements are going to make me lots and lots of ISK. ^_^

Though I'm kinda wondering about the past couple weeks of cons.elec. trading, for some reason the volume has fallen to almost nothing despite robotics trading steadily. Are some people producing robotics off their cons.elec. stocks still or have they started extracting it locally?

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.12.11 13:14:00 - [18]
 

Well now prices are dropping rather a lot, I have a question about things like this .. why is it, when something is obviously manipulated to a higher price, do people suicide their own prices on the item? It shot up to ridiculous profits and in a bid to get on the bandwagon people dump their stock vastly undercutting the next lowest price. Like some sort of effort to "quick, if I dump at 2K below they'll sell instantly!" when in fact no, mate, someone will just undercut you again in two seconds. Then you get what we have here, a drop in price riiight back to just about where they were before? Why do the sellers not keep their prices as high as they can? It always puzzles me when people do that.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2010.12.11 13:22:00 - [19]
 

Do they still drop from missions in 1000 of units ? If they stopped then you have your answer

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.12.11 13:29:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 11/12/2010 13:31:24
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Do they still drop from missions in 1000 of units ? If they stopped then you have your answer


I believe they have stopped, but that would give reason why they are up in price from before, apart from the manipulation of course. It doesn't explain why people constantly drop their orders by 200/500/100/5000! at a time to "make mine sell fast" when there's a dozen other people doing the same thing. Why drop by 5K when you can drop by 5 and have the same people chasing you? You wont sell faster than people are there to buy in the first place. I got my profit already, just trying to understand why people don't want theirs lol

edit: I can see why people do this for gap trading, for example, because you rely on high turnover of little profits a lot of the time to make up your isk and driving other people out of the market is the ideal. If you are hoarding 100K PVs though and dump them 5K below the current sell price, you'll just have someone undercut you after that and you've lost 500million isk potential extra isk for nothing.

Berikath
Posted - 2010.12.11 17:59:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Do they still drop from missions in 1000 of units ? If they stopped then you have your answer
From linked thread:

Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object
Gallente factories no longer produce planetary vehicles. I blame the economy.

Tasko Pal
Aliastra
Posted - 2010.12.11 20:45:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Caldariftw123


I believe they have stopped, but that would give reason why they are up in price from before, apart from the manipulation of course. It doesn't explain why people constantly drop their orders by 200/500/100/5000! at a time to "make mine sell fast" when there's a dozen other people doing the same thing. Why drop by 5K when you can drop by 5 and have the same people chasing you? You wont sell faster than people are there to buy in the first place. I got my profit already, just trying to understand why people don't want theirs lol


This is competition in a market. We had here a small bubble in planetary vehicles and then there's a bunch of people looking for the exit (I gather there were a number of traders looking for short term profit). Sure everyone could cooperate and score a piece of high profit. Or they could screw the other guys and get out sooner. This is just a standard example of the Prisoners' Dilemma.

And "make mine sell fast" does work even for a pure trader. Some of those other traders might have decided not to sell at 5k lower. Or they might even have decided to buy instead. Demand tends to increase and supply decrease when you drop the price that much.

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.12.11 21:19:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Tasko Pal
Originally by: Caldariftw123


I believe they have stopped, but that would give reason why they are up in price from before, apart from the manipulation of course. It doesn't explain why people constantly drop their orders by 200/500/100/5000! at a time to "make mine sell fast" when there's a dozen other people doing the same thing. Why drop by 5K when you can drop by 5 and have the same people chasing you? You wont sell faster than people are there to buy in the first place. I got my profit already, just trying to understand why people don't want theirs lol


This is competition in a market. We had here a small bubble in planetary vehicles and then there's a bunch of people looking for the exit (I gather there were a number of traders looking for short term profit). Sure everyone could cooperate and score a piece of high profit. Or they could screw the other guys and get out sooner. This is just a standard example of the Prisoners' Dilemma.

And "make mine sell fast" does work even for a pure trader. Some of those other traders might have decided not to sell at 5k lower. Or they might even have decided to buy instead. Demand tends to increase and supply decrease when you drop the price that much.



Yeah, I understand the theory in that but I've watched it over and over and over again in the EVE markets when a huge price jump like this occurs people tank their price almost as quickly, savage under cutting repeating each other. It is funny, and why I don't jump on bandwagons unless I was there first already. Seeing the price drop 5K should indicate to you that if you drop another 5K someone else will just do the same to you within a minute. I like EVE eh.

amacheck1
Posted - 2010.12.12 02:47:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: amacheck1 on 12/12/2010 02:47:26
Edited by: amacheck1 on 12/12/2010 02:47:06
Originally by: Caldariftw123

I didn't know about the mission factor, but I did buy a lot of PV a little while ago when I saw they were cheap - I looked at their constituent parts (mech parts!), saw those prices were going up, and bought out to wait for a price increase as supply dropped and new goods were made with higher priced materials.


yeah mechanical parts are like 14,000 each in jita today and each planetary vehicle needs 3.3333 of those, plus 6.6666 other P2 inputs, but a planetary vehicle only costs 17,000 each right now. it has to go up in price by a lot this month.

Mantra Achura
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2010.12.16 19:51:00 - [25]
 

It has been very obvious that planetary vehicles will rise in price in the future due to the fact that this item granted one of the biggest price gaps compared to its products. So it repesented the best option for a long position.

As for myself I bought a nice stockpile of 3 mio units within the last months representing an estimate stake of about 50% of the initial NPC buyout of june.

prove: Linkage

And it's still worth buying this stuff for current prices.
Why selling for 50k, when prices will go into full swing later on? $.$

Happy trading!


Berikath
Posted - 2010.12.16 22:38:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Mantra Achura
It has been very obvious that planetary vehicles will rise in price in the future due to the fact that this item granted one of the biggest price gaps compared to its products. So it repesented the best option for a long position.

As for myself I bought a nice stockpile of 3 mio units within the last months representing an estimate stake of about 50% of the initial NPC buyout of june.

prove: Linkage

And it's still worth buying this stuff for current prices.
Why selling for 50k, when prices will go into full swing later on? $.$

Happy trading!




Mind selling me... say, 100k each of synth oil, silicate glass, and livestock at... say, 200% of the price you bought 'em at? :)


 

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