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Ehrghiez
Posted - 2010.12.06 15:27:00 - [1]
 

I was just curious how many new or old players hit a wall of sorts within this game, and how they get over or around it. Assuming they do of course.

I am not new to Eve, but I still consider myself a newbie. I have been playing it on and off for several years but never consistently enough for it to matter.

I've noticed alot of debates over the skill point system, and how that seems to be the biggest issue in why people turn away from the game, any particular reasons aside from impatience?

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.06 15:41:00 - [2]
 

One reason for the skill point complaints is that it takes about 4-5 months in other MMO's to reach top level / catch up with the playerbase, and in EVE it takes 1+ years to get to the T2 ships or capital ships that are currently the "endgame" (sort of).

Ehrghiez
Posted - 2010.12.06 15:47:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Merouk Baas
One reason for the skill point complaints is that it takes about 4-5 months in other MMO's to reach top level / catch up with the playerbase, and in EVE it takes 1+ years to get to the T2 ships or capital ships that are currently the "endgame" (sort of).


I've seen alot of these discussions, but how do players (in the event of such an issue) get over these humps. I am sure some people get burnt out over time due to the mechanics of the game, so how can people adapt to get through these issues.

TheBlueMonkey
Gallente
Fags R Us
Posted - 2010.12.06 16:01:00 - [4]
 

The people you fly around with and the goals you set yourselves drag you through pretty much every slump you come across.

Those that turn up and view the skills or isk as the "barrier" in eve are playing the wrong game

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2010.12.06 16:10:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Ehrghiez
Originally by: Merouk Baas
One reason for the skill point complaints is that it takes about 4-5 months in other MMO's to reach top level / catch up with the playerbase, and in EVE it takes 1+ years to get to the T2 ships or capital ships that are currently the "endgame" (sort of).


I've seen alot of these discussions, but how do players (in the event of such an issue) get over these humps. I am sure some people get burnt out over time due to the mechanics of the game, so how can people adapt to get through these issues.


By specializing.

Contrary to popular belief, there isn't that much difference between an old vet like myself who has been playing for many years, and someone who has only been playing for a few months. This is for a few reasons:
1) Level 5 skills are a HUGE investment for a marginal gain. They take anywhere from a week to a month to train, whereas a newer player can reach level 4 in any skill in a couple days at most.
2) At any given time, a pilot is only utilizing a PORTION of their skills that they trained. For example, all of those skill points piled into missiles don't do you a single bit of good when you are flying a turret ship.

Newer players can QUICKLY catch up (or come very close to catching up) if they specialize. The only time consuming thing is training all of those core competency skills. But those shouldn't take to long to get up to level 4.

So the #1 thing to do to avoid hitting that "wall" is to not cross-train all over the place. FOCUS on your chosen role. Once you are competent at that role, then start thinking about cross training, or start grinding some of those support skills to V.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.12.06 16:11:00 - [6]
 

The only times I've been bored in EVE, it has been my own fault for not doing anything. Skill and ISK had nothing to do with it. Laziness did though.

I find the best way out of a slump is to do something.

Ehrghiez
Posted - 2010.12.06 16:54:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Ehrghiez
Originally by: Merouk Baas
One reason for the skill point complaints is that it takes about 4-5 months in other MMO's to reach top level / catch up with the playerbase, and in EVE it takes 1+ years to get to the T2 ships or capital ships that are currently the "endgame" (sort of).


I've seen alot of these discussions, but how do players (in the event of such an issue) get over these humps. I am sure some people get burnt out over time due to the mechanics of the game, so how can people adapt to get through these issues.


By specializing.

Contrary to popular belief, there isn't that much difference between an old vet like myself who has been playing for many years, and someone who has only been playing for a few months. This is for a few reasons:
1) Level 5 skills are a HUGE investment for a marginal gain. They take anywhere from a week to a month to train, whereas a newer player can reach level 4 in any skill in a couple days at most.
2) At any given time, a pilot is only utilizing a PORTION of their skills that they trained. For example, all of those skill points piled into missiles don't do you a single bit of good when you are flying a turret ship.

Newer players can QUICKLY catch up (or come very close to catching up) if they specialize. The only time consuming thing is training all of those core competency skills. But those shouldn't take to long to get up to level 4.

So the #1 thing to do to avoid hitting that "wall" is to not cross-train all over the place. FOCUS on your chosen role. Once you are competent at that role, then start thinking about cross training, or start grinding some of those support skills to V.


Although I agree with and completely understand what you are saying, I cant help but get the impression that an MMO Developer asking new players to specialize is just a cop-out for potentially bad mechanics. Please note that I mean absolutely no disrespect to what you've said. This is just my take on the specializing subject =)

The problems that I have seen with specializing is that a new player needs to establish him/herself in some way or another in order to invest the time into specializing. Unless said player is involved within a role specific corp (not everyone is lucky.)

I understand that being lazy can definitely hinder gameplay experience to a down-right stop, but I feel I need to comment on that as well. I am sure that alot of people mistake Eve laziness for Eve incompetence. I am sure its not foreign to anyone that Eve has a difficult learning curve. It isn't as simple as 'Click attack button-wait for enemy to die.' There is much more going on behind the scenes, but because of its difficult mechanics it makes it very hard to understand goals or objectives.

Now I have seen resources for almost everything you can do in Eve, but I must say alot of these resources are garbage and not very informative. Not to a new player who has still yet to learn even the basics of principles of Eve. Take exploring for instance. To a veteran I am certain that Exploring is a relatively simple concept. To a new player it seems near impossible. The map isn't at all easy for a newer player to understand, by any means.

I am not a veteran, but I have spent enough time playing with the map to understand its basics, and I'll admit there are times where I curse it for not being a simpler mechanism or for what I feel to be ill-informative tutorials.

Information is power. When teaching newer players to grasp simple concepts of the game one needs to speak as a simpleton. Its that simple, haha.






De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.12.06 18:00:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ehrghiez

The problems that I have seen with specializing is that a new player needs to establish him/herself in some way or another in order to invest the time into specializing. Unless said player is involved within a role specific corp (not everyone is lucky.)




This is patently not true. Why do you need to be in any specific corp to become a top notch drone pilot? Or a well skilled assault frigate pilot? Or a ferocious tackler? The simple answer is, you don't. You can choose to specialize in anything, even without being in a player corp. Eve is not a game that will cater to you. If you are unable to set goals for yourself, and then work to achieve those goals, you will not enjoy this game.

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2010.12.06 18:05:00 - [9]
 

One way to get over the hump is to just run off and do something else.

Getting Bored of that Vargur? Try the Machariel for a while.
Bored of missioning? Try exploration.
Bored of gate camping? Try suicide ganking
Bored of blobs? Try solo roaming.

Basically there's so much in eve is very difficult to get bored of all of it all at once.

Just try something you've never done before.

Ehrghiez
Posted - 2010.12.06 18:26:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Ehrghiez on 06/12/2010 18:30:07
Very well said for the last two posts. Mind everyone that these are simply the way I see things, and my perceptions are completely fallible as they are coming from a relatively newer players perspective.

I still see some issues with specializing. You still have to set a sort of basis for yourself. Specializing in, say, intercepting, would almost require a player to join a PvP based corp to utilize those skills. What I am basically saying is that I don't see much of a reason to specialize in something if you either a) dont have the financial means to do it, and/or b) the means in which to apply those skills.

Setting goals is easy enough. Starting out I really see the only forms of financing your endeavors by focusing on skill sets that will net you income first, followed by then being able to specialize.

At Culman - I really like your suggestions. The issue that I see with that though is the lack of information on some of those things. I am not saying they are hopeless, I am just looking at it through the eyes of a newer player. I know what I need to know for what I do in the game, but in the event that I would like to pursue something else, I don't see much information that accurately and informatively explains in simple steps the processes of performing such things. Not that the information is not out there, just that it isn't plentiful enough. I think it would help alot of players if this information was alot less difficult to access.

EmpTrad
Posted - 2010.12.06 18:50:00 - [11]
 

One common problem I have heard from new players is that they feel helpless looking at someone with 40+ million SP. Not true. A two day old player in a rifter can scramble a dreadnought and let the rest of his gang jump on it. Playing with people you enjoy being around is key.

Another common problem is people feeling they have to be in high/low/nullsec to have fun and enjoy themselves. Again, not true. Sometimes you want fleet fights out in 0.0 where dreads are shooting, carriers are launching swarms of fighters, and titans are just one shotting anything they can lock. Sometimes you want to run around hisec doing missions, exploring without paranoia, or (god forbid) mining in peace.

A third common complaint is that you have to specialize to be any good. Wrong. My main can do everything from mining to freighting to flying supercaps to raping someone on the market. Specialize a bit to find something you can do well, then experiment with anything else that seems interesting. Change will keep you from growing bored too fast.

Something else you can do is those things you'd never do in real life. Scam, pirate, suicide gank, whatever. Enjoy life and shoot someone in the face!

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.12.06 19:06:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: EmpTrad

A third common complaint is that you have to specialize to be any good. Wrong. My main can do everything from mining to freighting to flying supercaps to raping someone on the market. Specialize a bit to find something you can do well, then experiment with anything else that seems interesting. Change will keep you from growing bored too fast.



This is also very true. My main - that girl to the left of this post - has skills all over the place. She was my first character in Eve and I went through exactly what the OP is talking about - didn't have a clue, didn't know what I wanted to do. So I tried a little of everything and used mission running to fund my exploits into other areas.

The fact that you can specialize means you can be as good as an older character in one aspect of the game in fairly short order.

But you don't have to specialize if you'd rather explore your options.

Ehrghiez
Posted - 2010.12.06 19:23:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: EmpTrad

A third common complaint is that you have to specialize to be any good. Wrong. My main can do everything from mining to freighting to flying supercaps to raping someone on the market. Specialize a bit to find something you can do well, then experiment with anything else that seems interesting. Change will keep you from growing bored too fast.



This is also very true. My main - that girl to the left of this post - has skills all over the place. She was my first character in Eve and I went through exactly what the OP is talking about - didn't have a clue, didn't know what I wanted to do. So I tried a little of everything and used mission running to fund my exploits into other areas.

The fact that you can specialize means you can be as good as an older character in one aspect of the game in fairly short order.

But you don't have to specialize if you'd rather explore your options.


As much as I personally don't like to admit it, I definitely have absolutely no clue as to where I would like to go with my character. So as of now I am just working on core skills to improve mission running efficiency. I know what I want to do within the game, I just dont want to go broke doing it. To begin with I would like to get involved with an active pvp corp. I wouldn't mind specializing in intys, but I see no reason to begin skill training focus on anything of the sort until I can net a respectable amount of isk per hour from mishes. No sense in getting pew pew'd all the time with nothing to show for it but an empty wallet.

I was getting involved with the market, but without any proper direction or informative instruction that proved to be hardly profitable. I made profit, but nothing to do backflips over.

I don't doubt the subject on specializing, I just doubt the road to it. Most new players cant hop in the game and start experiencing high income isk earnings or hope to take down ships much larger than themselves without help. Granted I understand that help isn't that hard to find if you actively look for it.

Very nice suggestions so far. I like seeing this side of the Eve community =)

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.12.06 23:50:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Ehrghiez


Very nice suggestions so far. I like seeing this side of the Eve community =)


Don't worry - that feeling will change. Wink

Ranzabar
Posted - 2010.12.07 02:16:00 - [15]
 

All of your comments make a lot of sense. My take is a little different. Eve is difficult. Its great to look at, but it is a complicated bear of a game and you have to enjoy that complication to stay interested for longer than when the newness wears off. Think about it. You start in a hisec system and are off exploring nothingness. Nothing besides gates, stations and belts are there. You don't know how to scan and you can't defend yourself from rats. The knowledge you need to learn is found in studying when you should be flying. Its a great game, but to be confident, you spend a huge amount of your time reading, studying and waiting for skills to complete.

Boring until you get some level of confidence and most people are driven off by then.

I hung around because I like this kind of detailed stuff. Most others would be better of with WOW (mouthwash applied)

Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
Posted - 2010.12.07 02:29:00 - [16]
 

To do well in eve, you pretty much need 3 things: Isk, SP, knowledge of how the game works, and connections.

Isk is needed to buy better ships and replace losses. Also for starting capital for trading, scamming, or industry.

Connections are the people you go to for help with things. If I'm scamming someone, I have a few people I know I can rely on to help me out if I need someone to pose as an investment partner, reference, or alt of an alliance diplomat. For pvp my corp knew several other corps who we could count on to give us extra firepower if needed (e.g. pos takedown or target joins an alliance that likes to blob).

SP is needed to fly more variety of ships, fly ships better, manage more market orders and do more industry stuff. Coincidentally, every ship I've flown in pvp and done well with could be trained to a decent level of competency by a brand new player in under 3 months time (most even faster), if that's all that was focused on.

Game knowledge is needed to tie everything together. If I'm solo and fighting a small gang, I could use my knowledge of session change mechanics to split them up on a gate and pick them off (if they're dumb), or escape (more likely). Knowledge of manufacturing processes and pos's to build things, and knowledge of how the market works to make profitable investments. When I first started I can remember reading the forums extensively, testing things I was unsure on with corpmates, and learning several things through mistakes (learning that you can't dock up right after shooting someone was our only loss in my first wardec).

All four of the above are equally important, and you don't need all 4 to do what you want to do. This character has less than 1m sp, but I've used my connections and knowledge of game mechanics to take down entire alliances. As an experiment I created a manufacturing character and multiplied 20m in startup funds to 300m+ in about a month and a half. When I was a month into playing, me and my corp of 4 others (we had all subscribed together), fought off a wardec from a much larger corp of year old+ players.


Two other things about the skill system that aren't often mentioned:

1) Differences in SP should be compared as a % and not as an absolute value. As a new players skills increase along with a vets (assuming roughly equal sp gain), the % gap between them narrows. RL example: You have a brother who's two years older than you. When you're 1 and he's 3, he's 3x older than you. When you're 2 and he's 4, he's now only 2x older. When you're 30 and he's 32, he's only 1.06x older than you. Once you've over 21 (in the US at least, probably different ages in different countries), age doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the decisions you make, the people you know, and how good you are at what you do for a living.

2) When specializing, there's no need to be "the best" or even anywhere near "the best". You just need to be better than the other guy. This is where target selection comes into play. If you spend 2 months training mostly pvp skills, you'll generally beat a 3 year old player with all their SP in industry. Conversely, the 3 year old industry player will probably be able to out-build and out-research you.

Quinc4623
Posted - 2010.12.07 05:58:00 - [17]
 

I want to note that like anything, there is a balance of being specialized and broad skilled, and there are advantages to both. To a degree the amount of time, money, SP you devote to it ought to be proportional to how interested you are in doing that.

In the skill system you devote 5.65 times as much times for each subsequent skill level as all the previous levels combined, yet usually the bonus is 5% to some particular statistic. Maybe you unlock the Tech II version but the difference is still marginal. So really, just because someone has several times the number of skill points you do, doesn't mean they are several times more effective or powerful, often it means they're 1.05 times more powerful, 1.10 times if they're Tech II fitted...

Yeah, I've always been a jack of all trades type...

Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
Minmatar
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
Posted - 2010.12.07 06:18:00 - [18]
 

Hello Kitty Island Adventure was just too hard for me, so I came back to EVE.

Conrad Makbure
Gallente
Teutonic Brotherhood
Posted - 2010.12.07 19:24:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: TheBlueMonkey
The people you fly around with and the goals you set yourselves drag you through pretty much every slump you come across.

Those that turn up and view the skills or isk as the "barrier" in eve are playing the wrong game


That's not a fair statement, dude. Skills and ISK really are barriers and the content is extreamly weak. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to use what little ISK they have to trade. Most of us can't stand mining for hours on end. R&D gets dull after a while too.

All this "carebear this" and "carebear that" crap from these idiots with their all original comments just want to gank because they can't pvp with an equal. The game really needs better content for starters, so there a good presence of both aspects, pvp and pve.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2010.12.07 19:42:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Salpad on 07/12/2010 19:43:21
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
The only times I've been bored in EVE, it has been my own fault for not doing anything. Skill and ISK had nothing to do with it. Laziness did though.

I find the best way out of a slump is to do something.



Or take a pause from EVE, anywhere from a couple of months to almost a year.

edit: And only log in to train skillz. lvl 5s like Drone Interfacing and AWU 5, even just [racial] Frigate/Cruiser/Battleship to 5, and Battlecruisers to 5 (especially if you're Calari), are good choice to train while otherwise "on leave".

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2010.12.07 20:55:00 - [21]
 

IMHO, the OP has the wrong attitude about EVE. His top three complaints seem to be:
1. Learning is unpleasant. Why can't everything be easy?
2. I don't like waiting for skills to train.
3. I feel like I can't compete with high-SP characters.

I simply don't think he's going to ever enjoy himself in this game. I'm 3 years in and still learn about new things all the time. Experimenting with stuff, trying to figure out how to do it better, is part of what makes EVE fun.

The skill training system is also what makes EVE fun for guys like me. WOW etc are designed for high school students who can spend six hours a night killing wild boars or whatever to "power-level". In EVE alone, normal adults can play the game for fun and still be competitive.

Finally, you can do any damn thing you want to do, at any time in the game. You can mine, you can run missions, you can explore, you can PVP. Can you beat the high-SP characters? Sure, if you catch them by surprise, or are in a bigger gang! My first PVP kill in the game was a carrier. I was in a T1 destroyer. Think about it. You do not have to "specialize" or "power-level" in order to participate in something like missions or trade. Just start at level 1 and do it.

I mean no disrespect, but the three "problems" you seem most frustrated by, are three of the unique design concepts that make EVE the special game we like so much.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.12.07 21:35:00 - [22]
 

I've said before, I have a love hate relationship with the skill system in EVE.

On one hand I like the fact that I don't have to worry about logging in and griding away for hours on end to "keep up" with other players as I did in my last MMO where you pretty much had to be max level (particularly as an end game raider) to participate.

On the other it does get a bit irritating at how long some of these skills take and how long I sometimes have to wait to open new capabilities. I currently have 18 days left on Heavy drone operation 5 after just finishing 20 days on Drone interfacing V, my skill plan goes out a couple years at this point and it is sometimes a tad depressing to know that there really isn't anything to do to speed things up.

All that said I can do lots of stuff with the skills I have already trained. And while it will be nice when I finally get to my long term goal of being able to pilot all non-jump capable combat ships with a full T2 fit that doesn't mean I can't play now with what I can already use.

I do try to plan my skill plan in such a way as to give myself little "rewards" every month or so. Right now is particularly rough due to the 2 20 day trains for T2 heavies. But just before I dove into this I got myself T2 Med projectiles and Mini cruiser 3 to open up the Huricane to play with. Once I finish up T2 heavies I'm going to spend a couple months training up my T2 and T3 Gal cruiser skills that will give me a lot of new capabilities relatively quickly after the Gal Cruiser 5 train. I'm also going to give myself a little reward in the form of interdictors and their support skills with the leaarning skill reallocation.

I see these little milestones as important in maintaining interest.

Alts can help as well. in that you can train them on a different path and try different things while waiting on longer term goals.

I guess the best way to think of it is that in other MMO's you have to play in order to advance. In EVE you play while you advance.

There is definitely an up side to this. You aren't stuck doing the same repetitive thing while learning a new skill. So while you wait for your Crusier5 or AWU 5 for Maruaders or whatever you can be infiltrating an wartarget on an alt or missioning or manfacturing or exploring or what ever sounds interesting.


One interesting thing I've found with EVE is that the biggest limitation I find on my activities isn't a lack of skill points but a lack of time to do the various things I want to try.

For instance I've spent the last 6+ months in RVB. It's good quick fun which is conducive to my play time. Periodically I'll take a week off or so from that like I'm doing right now to mess around on an alt (doing a little mindless mission grinding atm searching for that illusive fountain of isk). It works well while Skex is on that long arsed skill train.

I think often times the biggest problem new players have is the abundance of things one can do in the game. You can mission, mine, explore, trade, do industry or do merc work in high sec or pirate in low or join the SOVBears down in null it really is a very open system with wide horizons to explore.

But often all these options leave people overwhelmed and they go for the usual MMO loadstone or grinding PVE content until they can't see straight anymore.

My advice is to remember that the whole point of this game is to have fun. Think of something you haven't done and find a corp that does it and give it a try. Experiment a little don't be afraid to take a few risks. If you screw up so what it's just pixels update your clone and try again.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.12.08 12:05:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 08/12/2010 12:08:58
I'm in a very similar position to you, I first played in 2007 but haven't consistently subbed.

I've found that I get bored with EVE if I don't have something to aim for. Either a "thing" (a type of activity) or a ship (or module) you want to fly (or use), or both (if an activity requires a certain type of ship/module).

This means that during the time it takes to build up the skill, whatever you normally do during that waiting time (e.g. missioning, mining) isn't so boring because you are happy to build up isk and wait for the skills to train. In that context, the skill system and the necessity to wait work perfectly - they are part of the immersion (while also being a handy timesink for CCP Very Happy ).

Also, when you do reach your goal, it is very gratifying. I recently achieved good exploration skills that I'd been anticipating since starting EVE and it was really great fun to finally be able to do what I'd only read about. The game has been revitalised for me.

That's what makes EVE special: because of the steep learning curve, the ever-present "danger", you get an emotional connection to things that you can't get from many other games, especially if those are things you've thought up and planned yourself.

Noodle around looking at the market, on the forums here (ships and fittings, crime & punishment) and see what people are doing. Get familiar with all the ships and ship types and activity types in EVE. Something will "call" to you at some point, then you go for it.

Alternatively (especially for PvP) you can jump into things in a kinda-sorta semi-competent way and just have fun getting blown up and getting tips from people who defeat you, etc. - that's not my cup of tea, but many people do it that way.

Alexei Khrazhya
Posted - 2010.12.08 12:57:00 - [24]
 

I've been playing the game on and off for about 2 and a half years like you, and each time, I learned a little bit more about the game. This time I feel like it's all coming together, and I'm managing to find my way through the game quite easily, though not without frequent help from the default Help channel...

By "specializing," all we mean is to focus your skills for a specific task that you can get into early and easily, rather than Drones 3, then MWD 2, then Targeting 2, then Industrial 4, then Gunnery 2 etc...

Want to fly ___ ship? Start with Frigates. Click Show Info for that ship, then the Prerequisites tab. It will show you each skills you need to level in order to fly it. Then what do you want to do? Fly missions? Mine? Explore? Haul goods and play the market?

For missions, work on Small Turrets (of whatever variety for your race and ship) for damage output, and maybe Electronics and Engineering to help you fit more modules on your ship. The next most important thing to do is LEARN HOW TO TANK! This is a concept that, coming from WoW, GW, and EQ, is slightly different than I expected.

If you click the Recommended tab in the Show Info window for a particular ship, it will show certificates recommended for that ship. Certificates are a sort of "tree" showing what skills are best suited to get the most out of that ship. For example, it may show whether you should Armor or Shield tank. Increasing your resistance to the particular damage you will be receiving is the key thing here. Before you accept a mission, there is usually an icon in the mission description (usually next to the Location line) which tells which faction you're going up against. Simply buy and equip the appropriate modules. Once you have your resistances up, equip the proper ammo to do the corresponding ammo type. Then blow stuff up! THere are many resources available online (accessible through the in-game browser for convenience) which will outline what ammo to use against each faction.

If you use the starmap (F10) to find a good agent, you'll be able to start raking in the dough!

Before I figured out how to find agents and the mechanics of tanking, I was a miner. Train some of the basic mining skills, ask around for a good ship to start mining in, then repeat the process of training the Prerequisite skills, then shooting for the Recommended skills. Then find a guide on how to find safe/profitable mining areas.

I even played for a while with a character who just trained Market and Industrial skills, and I played the Trading game to make tons of money. There are graphs to show the pricing history of items, and you can buy items in bulk at their lowest prices, and hang on to them to sell when the value of those items increases. You can even take it a step further by buying items cheaply at stations where they're very common, then hauling them to a more secluded station and bumping the price a bit! You'd be surprised how willing people are willing to pay to cut dowon on traveling time! It gets much easier once you're able to purchase and sell items remotely.

Basically, keep on the path you're on. Never be afraid to ask for help, no matter how foolish you may feel. It's not uncommon to have half a dozen people jump to answer your questions in the help channel. Spend some time reading the Show Info for various skills and different modules. After a while you'll learn the relationship between the modules and skills, and fitting ships and formulating a great tank to absorb damage will become second nature.

Keep playing on-and-off. Log in every couple days to make sure skills are training (use the Training Queue, durrrr =D ) and spend some time reading the various guides on this site: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Guides . This should even help you find something that sounds interesting to set your sites on, and iti's what helped me finally find my niche.

Feel free to add this character, I'll answer any Qs.

Vyechney Nokov
Posted - 2010.12.08 13:02:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Alexei Khrazhya
Feel free to add this character, I'll answer any Qs.


Oops. I'm Alexei.

Sorry, I don't play that character. Add this guy (Vyechney Nokov). I'm out of town for a couple more days, but I normally play a couple hours every day. =D

Liv Fyrdemise
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.09 01:50:00 - [26]
 

I have a similar history as the OP in on again off again relationship with Eve. I didn't hit a wall with skills just the shaping of my first real Eve character. I over trained areas that were completely useless for the type of player I was evolving into. I didn't really understand ship fitting and what the essential piloting skills were. I didn't research fully the path of least resistance with my first industrial miner. Even so I found a helpful corp that first time out and made some money and some stuff and established some trade relationships. My issue in training was that I was overextended into too many areas to be a competent pilot and not strong enough in what should have been my core skill set which was trading. So I would say its important to focus on what your character is about. How do you want to play. What do you want to do.

My alt is being designed as a PVE mission runner and skilling for eventual exploration. My alt is better skilled for her tasks than my original primary which was all over the place. So sometimes repurposing and specializing is essential to getting over the hump especially if your first build is all over the map. Now with Eve the good thing is my industrialist is not going to go to waste. I will have to give his piloting skills some attention because first time out I didn't know I was under powered on these silly missions and I will skill him appropriately in trade and manufacture because eventually that is all he will be doing. So getting a game plan for each character is important.

What many vets may overlook for some of us perpetual noobs is that many of us don't come from another MMO we come from single player RPG or shooter. Our expectation for content and learning systems is completely different. So I had to understand that my character really wasn't going to ever top out so to speak but had to evolve over time while playing. The other component is both my characters are going to have to build in-game relationships. This makes the grind more bearable on the PVE side and opens up the distinct EVE experience as a player driven game. Yes, I would like skill training to take less time as would anyone else but I think changes are coming that will better balance the PVE experience while newbies get up to speed and choose how they want to play the game.

The Dodge
Minmatar
StarFleet Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.12.09 12:01:00 - [27]
 

I have 10.7mil SP, by all reckoning that isn't a lot. But I made some money buying and selling on my first character (4.7mil SP there.) and bought this one legally from the character bazaar for 4billion isk and pvp'd my heart out! (It's killboard estimates it's Skillpoints at 50mil.)

The way eve works is simple, I'm not long out the start so I can give you a clearcut view. You might wonder how you're going to compete with those massive SP's, and think they'll just romperstomp you, but look at it this way.

SP is just a reflection of a characters experience in the game. You can be useful flying a Rifter (Minmatar Tier1 Frigate)to a fleet, purely by being able tackle (Jump on quickly and warp disrupt) an enemy. You'll also get yourself on a few killmails. It's so easy to just sit and complain about unfair it all is, and in a year or two people will be complainign about how OP'd you are.. but thats nothing to do with it. An 87mil SP character in a frigate will still get annihilated by a 10mil SP character in a HAC (Tier2 Cruiser.) Your ship fitting and your ability to read into a trap or second guess the route youre taking to a system ALONE determines how long you survive.

I was lucky, on my first character when I had no idea how to do anything or what I was doing I was taken in by a 0.0 corp called Darkest Depths, who at the time was run by HawkCrest. They taught me the ropes and how to survive in EvE, and at just 2mil SP I was able to live and operate in 0.0 as a useful tackling addition to a fleet.

I'm not saying that an 80mil SP character and a 10mil SP character who are both in battlecruisers will be even, but I'm saying that skillpoints arent the biggest thing since sliced bread. Just chill out and have fun flying around in your Rifter.. because **** only gets more expensive from there ;). Have some fun, FOR GODS SAKE JOIN A CORP! even a newbie one! The entirety of eve is based around corporations and is totally freeform gameplay.

Keep calm and carry on.

Ariel Nova
Posted - 2010.12.09 20:24:00 - [28]
 

I have been playing since the end of 2004 ( I deleted my initial character, and I took a year and a half off).

I don't fly Capital ships and I only fly Gallente and Caldari ships.
This being my second creation I decided I really wanted to be good at a few things that I decided I'd like to do. That being said, I don't utilize all of my skills on any regular basis and some skills benefit none at all.

However, this game has evolved a lot since 2004. In 2004 you were given a rookie ship, sent out to mine a rock and shoot a rat and that was the extent of the "training" to play. If you find the current training insufficient, it is a good thing you didn't start back then.

I like how in Eve no one is a god at all it has to offer. If you prefer to reach the end of a game then this type of game development is not for you.

In Eve your choices in how you play and how you want to play are truly yours, unlike other games that you have some choices but the rest is structured.

It isn't hard to try a new thing in Eve either, the first level or 2 of a skill takes less than a day, and most things can be attempted in fairly safe locations.

By no means should anyone that plays Eve think that Capital ships is the god of all ships and is the ultimate goal in this game.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.12.09 23:42:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Ariel Nova
However, this game has evolved a lot since 2004. In 2004 you were given a rookie ship, sent out to mine a rock and shoot a rat and that was the extent of the "training" to play. If you find the current training insufficient, it is a good thing you didn't start back then.

I couldn't kill it. I think I was targeting the rock Embarassed So I panicked and closed the client. When I logged-in again I was in a station; I still don't know why or how that happened.

Later, I ran the same mission about 20 times in different starter systems, as I was trying to raise standing with the school's corp. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only person in EVE with over 9 standing with Hedion University.

Anyways, after that first failed mission I paid for a year in full. EVE was big, complex, confusing, and had plenty for me to learn. It was a big puzzle. I love that about EVE.

Shurikane
Posted - 2010.12.10 11:49:00 - [30]
 

Somebody needs a to-do list.


  • Find a wormhole and run into it. See how long you survive. Try to go to its end and make it back home with something in your cargo hold.

  • Try faction warfare. 24-7 pew pew!

  • Find yourself some gangmates and go roam in nullsec to cause trouble.

  • Train yourself in a ship class your character was not meant to fly.

  • Leave your base of operations and start anew elsewhere. Use your fight money to buy yourself the ships you need to operate.

  • Attempt some trading. Figure out some demand and see if you can fulfill it.

  • Give PI a go. Try producing an item and selling it off.

  • Get into a low-sec or nullsec corp.



If you let your SP be a wall in any shape or form except as "I need to train this one to pilot the next ship I wanna fly", you're doing it wrong.

If you think you can max yourself out, you're doing it wrong.

If you are driven to seek the maximum income in the least amount of time, you're doing it wrong.


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