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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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captain foivos
Posted - 2010.12.10 06:56:00 - [211]
 


Musashi IV
Posted - 2010.12.10 11:20:00 - [212]
 

CCP stop the use of macros!!

Trupo Baptista
Posted - 2010.12.10 12:13:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Trupo Baptista on 10/12/2010 12:13:19
Any reply to this anywhere?
Or will it just be ignored.

Ganagati
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.12.10 13:57:00 - [214]
 

Edited by: Ganagati on 10/12/2010 13:57:53
This is what I love about MMO communities. People whine. They complain. They *****. They DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) action.

Fair enough. What action? They've been doing their best effort to spot using limited resources the botters and it seems to no avail.

So, is that it then? Do they throw in the towel. Well, that's up to you. You want to whine? Want to *****? Ok: I have your answer then- the answer Blizzard came up with and the only answer an MMO can truly turn to when all else fails.

Please go look up the Warden Client

If you cannot catch botters when you have limited resources, expand your resources. And do you know how the players react when they get what they have been so begging for?

They'll whine. They'll complain. They'll *****. They'll DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) that it is removed. And do you know what CCP will get for all their effort? 2,000+ subscriptions lost from the botters and the exact same number of angry players as before.

Yep, I can see why they are chomping at the bit to fix this.

betty drunkenlord
Posted - 2010.12.10 14:15:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: Ganagati
Edited by: Ganagati on 10/12/2010 13:57:53
This is what I love about MMO communities. People whine. They complain. They *****. They DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) action.

Fair enough. What action? They've been doing their best effort to spot using limited resources the botters and it seems to no avail.

So, is that it then? Do they throw in the towel. Well, that's up to you. You want to whine? Want to *****? Ok: I have your answer then- the answer Blizzard came up with and the only answer an MMO can truly turn to when all else fails.

Please go look up the Warden Client

If you cannot catch botters when you have limited resources, expand your resources. And do you know how the players react when they get what they have been so begging for?

They'll whine. They'll complain. They'll *****. They'll DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) that it is removed. And do you know what CCP will get for all their effort? 2,000+ subscriptions lost from the botters and the exact same number of angry players as before.

Yep, I can see why they are chomping at the bit to fix this.


Yes, whining [constructively] is the reason of most of mankind development. It is also the reason of all great things that got developed in Eve. So in this aspect whining is good. Whining with the purpose to make game better, more enjoyable and fun. As for subscriptions no worries, since bots subscriptions will be replaced by players reactivating their abandoned alts and ex-players disgusted with bots returning to game there will be no substantial loss for CCP in the long run, inversely, CCP will make more dough with employing everything in its power to cut off botters.

TriadSte
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.10 14:29:00 - [216]
 

My thing is this:

Whats MORE illegal [ lol ]

People using other peoples chars like alliances do [ alot ]

or

Macro users?

I ask which is more illegal because, chars get banned pretty much all the time because of other people logging in with that char.

But

Macro users DO NOT

CCP you are making yourself look uber noob for this? Go out of the box and look inside like we do and you'll see.

Ganagati
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.12.10 14:30:00 - [217]
 

Edited by: Ganagati on 10/12/2010 14:32:48
Originally by: betty drunkenlord
Originally by: Ganagati
Edited by: Ganagati on 10/12/2010 13:57:53
This is what I love about MMO communities. People whine. They complain. They *****. They DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) action.

Fair enough. What action? They've been doing their best effort to spot using limited resources the botters and it seems to no avail.

So, is that it then? Do they throw in the towel. Well, that's up to you. You want to whine? Want to *****? Ok: I have your answer then- the answer Blizzard came up with and the only answer an MMO can truly turn to when all else fails.

Please go look up the Warden Client

If you cannot catch botters when you have limited resources, expand your resources. And do you know how the players react when they get what they have been so begging for?

They'll whine. They'll complain. They'll *****. They'll DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) that it is removed. And do you know what CCP will get for all their effort? 2,000+ subscriptions lost from the botters and the exact same number of angry players as before.

Yep, I can see why they are chomping at the bit to fix this.


Yes, whining [constructively] is the reason of most of mankind development. It is also the reason of all great things that got developed in Eve. So in this aspect whining is good. Whining with the purpose to make game better, more enjoyable and fun. As for subscriptions no worries, since bots subscriptions will be replaced by players reactivating their abandoned alts and ex-players disgusted with bots returning to game there will be no substantial loss for CCP in the long run, inversely, CCP will make more dough with employing everything in its power to cut off botters.


Yes, but what will the cost to us be to remove those botters? The only surefire method to remove bots is yet more client spyware like Warden.

CCP has been doing the best they can with limited resources. Obviously, most of you feel that isn't good enough. I'm asking: are you ok with what the next logical step would be? As in, expanding their resources.

Originally by: TriadSte

I ask which is more illegal because, chars get banned pretty much all the time because of other people logging in with that char.

But

Macro users DO NOT

CCP you are making yourself look uber noob for this? Go out of the box and look inside like we do and you'll see.


This I can answer. As someone familiar with these sort of mechanics- atm it is far simpler for them to CATCH people sharing accounts than catching macroers. It isn't like they look at 2 accounts and say "hey, this guy is macroing and this guy is switching toons... lets ban the toon sharer."

With macro mining, since they have no software options in place, they must rely purely on watching the character, player reports, and things like that. For someone sharing an account, it is pretty easy to notice that someone logs in regularly from Georgia USA and then suddenly appears in Illinois USA 3 hours later... only to reappear in Georgia USA within an hour of that. Shy of teleportation, it isn't possible. But setting up systems to alert them of this IS very simple.

Aelius
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Dark Matter Coalition
Posted - 2010.12.10 14:31:00 - [218]
 

If i get elected to the CSM this matter will have my maximum priority.

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.12.10 14:32:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Ganagati
Edited by: Ganagati on 10/12/2010 13:57:53
This is what I love about MMO communities. People whine. They complain. They *****. They DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) action.

Fair enough. What action? They've been doing their best effort to spot using limited resources the botters and it seems to no avail.

So, is that it then? Do they throw in the towel. Well, that's up to you. You want to whine? Want to *****? Ok: I have your answer then- the answer Blizzard came up with and the only answer an MMO can truly turn to when all else fails.

Please go look up the Warden Client

If you cannot catch botters when you have limited resources, expand your resources. And do you know how the players react when they get what they have been so begging for?

They'll whine. They'll complain. They'll *****. They'll DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) that it is removed. And do you know what CCP will get for all their effort? 2,000+ subscriptions lost from the botters and the exact same number of angry players as before.

Yep, I can see why they are chomping at the bit to fix this.


Indeed, because obviously the only way to make sure their client isn't being modified is to violate the user's machine and scan out what is being run, and interfere with it, instead of say securing their client and making it aware of when IT has been compromised. The difference between putting cameras outside your house to watch if your neighbor steps on your lawn, while also seeing into their yard, and shooting their dog cause he could take a dump on your flowers OR putting up a fence along with cameras that only have a view of your property.




Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.12.10 14:35:00 - [220]
 

With unlimited ISK from botters the risk vs revard that EVE is famous for is going down the drain.

Ganagati
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.12.10 14:35:00 - [221]
 

Originally by: Bhattran
Originally by: Ganagati
Edited by: Ganagati on 10/12/2010 13:57:53
This is what I love about MMO communities. People whine. They complain. They *****. They DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) action.

Fair enough. What action? They've been doing their best effort to spot using limited resources the botters and it seems to no avail.

So, is that it then? Do they throw in the towel. Well, that's up to you. You want to whine? Want to *****? Ok: I have your answer then- the answer Blizzard came up with and the only answer an MMO can truly turn to when all else fails.

Please go look up the Warden Client

If you cannot catch botters when you have limited resources, expand your resources. And do you know how the players react when they get what they have been so begging for?

They'll whine. They'll complain. They'll *****. They'll DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) that it is removed. And do you know what CCP will get for all their effort? 2,000+ subscriptions lost from the botters and the exact same number of angry players as before.

Yep, I can see why they are chomping at the bit to fix this.


Indeed, because obviously the only way to make sure their client isn't being modified is to violate the user's machine and scan out what is being run, and interfere with it, instead of say securing their client and making it aware of when IT has been compromised. The difference between putting cameras outside your house to watch if your neighbor steps on your lawn, while also seeing into their yard, and shooting their dog cause he could take a dump on your flowers OR putting up a fence along with cameras that only have a view of your property.






An example of how this could work? Besides the theoretical "They should figure out how to do it. I'm sure it's easy!". Bots use the same mechanics game clients do to send commands to them. When those commands appear at CCPs servers, it looks no different and is completely indistinguishable from a normal player sending information. At no point do botters crack into CCP's servers. So, I look forward to hearing how they could do this. You have no idea how many lives you would make easier in doing so... and that last line isn't sarcasm.

betty drunkenlord
Posted - 2010.12.10 14:42:00 - [222]
 

I think CCP might be working on its version of warden atm. They might just announce it post factum after they clean up majority of bots doing unholy rage 2. I think it's important to fight botters on every field:

1) removing their technical capabilities (warden)
2) removing moral support for software they are selling (thus inducing players which couldn't distinguish clearly whether it's good or not to use the program)
3) removing income incentive for RMTers - creating plex was a very good step, I think there could be very interesting discussion how to remove it further.

What I would like to see is to support no2) in other words a clear communication that it's illegal to use bots, that they cut player base growth prospects for ccp etc. so this could be copy pasted in other forums, heck even bot forums. In efffect they wouldn't get away with a statement that ccp really likes bots because they fuel the eve economy and all that crap...

Ganagati
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.12.10 14:44:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: betty drunkenlord
I think CCP might be working on its version of warden atm. They might just announce it post factum after they clean up majority of bots doing unholy rage 2. I think it's important to fight botters on every field:

1) removing their technical capabilities (warden)
2) removing moral support for software they are selling (thus inducing players which couldn't distinguish clearly whether it's good or not to use the program)
3) removing income incentive for RMTers - creating plex was a very good step, I think there could be very interesting discussion how to remove it further.

What I would like to see is to support no2) in other words a clear communication that it's illegal to use bots, that they cut player base growth prospects for ccp etc. so this could be copy pasted in other forums, heck even bot forums. In efffect they wouldn't get away with a statement that ccp really likes bots because they fuel the eve economy and all that crap...


1 I dread. 3 sounds fun but I'm biased as I'm a pretty big supporter of PLEX. 2 I don't really get, but it sounds better than 1 so I'm all for it. =D

Jaqel Broadside
Posted - 2010.12.10 14:48:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: Ganagati
Edited by: Ganagati on 10/12/2010 13:57:53
This is what I love about MMO communities. People whine. They complain. They *****. They DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) action.

Fair enough. What action? They've been doing their best effort to spot using limited resources the botters and it seems to no avail.

So, is that it then? Do they throw in the towel. Well, that's up to you. You want to whine? Want to *****? Ok: I have your answer then- the answer Blizzard came up with and the only answer an MMO can truly turn to when all else fails.

Please go look up the Warden Client

If you cannot catch botters when you have limited resources, expand your resources. And do you know how the players react when they get what they have been so begging for?

They'll whine. They'll complain. They'll *****. They'll DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) that it is removed. And do you know what CCP will get for all their effort? 2,000+ subscriptions lost from the botters and the exact same number of angry players as before.

Yep, I can see why they are chomping at the bit to fix this.



Really ? They can't spot the botters ? Limited resources ? What a load of utter crap - never read such a load of utter complete crap in my life.

Exploit the mechanic of bots being linear in how they work -> store the results -> query and delete accounts.
Trace the ISK transfers of the accounts -> store the results -> delete the accounts.

Any programmer could do this kind of task in a few days including implementation. The database update would take a few minutes at most.


I agree with you in part CCP DONT WANT TO FIX THE PROBLEM.

Why ?

Simple all of Null Sec would be exposed as a complete sack of s**t,,, the only reason they allow it to continue is the press generated from the ever increased size of battles being funded by botters and the bad publicity if the whole pack of cards crumbled and turned into what was humanly possible.


Revenue streams would be way, way higher if it was known that new players could actually make their way in the game as there would actually be a point in playing the game.

What REALLY, REALLY annoys me is that over the years more and more features have put into the baby of null sec, vast amounts of developers time and at the same time high sec has been nerfed year after year.

The net result ?

Resources are hogged in nullsec forcing those in highsec to play more or PAY MORE REAL LIFE CASH.

And what's worse ?

PvP corps and griefers paid for by botting accounts !

Not only is the high sec income reduced by botters the ISK is being used to destroy game play of the very people who pay for their services.

CCP you suck.

And what do we get ? New Christmas present of learning skills being removed - on face value a good thing,, great 8)

Hold on,, wont that mean you can now create a new botter account that much quicker ? Won't it also mean any passive earning accounts like PI can also be raised quicker.

Just another in a long line of dumbing down excercises dressed up as improvements but actually destroying peoples ISK earning potential specifcally targetted at those who actually pay for their accounts.

Cheers CCP thanks for making matters worse over the years.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.10 15:05:00 - [225]
 

Has CCP made a statement about this yet?

Looks like CCP is inviting people to break the EULA.

Really disappointed with CCP over this. The other stuff with lag and bad priorities I can sit by and watch but this is ****ing daft.

betty drunkenlord
Posted - 2010.12.10 15:05:00 - [226]
 

Originally by: Jaqel Broadside
Originally by: Ganagati
Edited by: Ganagati on 10/12/2010 13:57:53
This is what I love about MMO communities. People whine. They complain. They *****. They DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) action.

Fair enough. What action? They've been doing their best effort to spot using limited resources the botters and it seems to no avail.

So, is that it then? Do they throw in the towel. Well, that's up to you. You want to whine? Want to *****? Ok: I have your answer then- the answer Blizzard came up with and the only answer an MMO can truly turn to when all else fails.

Please go look up the Warden Client

If you cannot catch botters when you have limited resources, expand your resources. And do you know how the players react when they get what they have been so begging for?

They'll whine. They'll complain. They'll *****. They'll DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) that it is removed. And do you know what CCP will get for all their effort? 2,000+ subscriptions lost from the botters and the exact same number of angry players as before.

Yep, I can see why they are chomping at the bit to fix this.



Really ? They can't spot the botters ? Limited resources ? What a load of utter crap - never read such a load of utter complete crap in my life.

Exploit the mechanic of bots being linear in how they work -> store the results -> query and delete accounts.
Trace the ISK transfers of the accounts -> store the results -> delete the accounts.

Any programmer could do this kind of task in a few days including implementation. The database update would take a few minutes at most.


I agree with you in part CCP DONT WANT TO FIX THE PROBLEM.

Why ?

Simple all of Null Sec would be exposed as a complete sack of s**t,,, the only reason they allow it to continue is the press generated from the ever increased size of battles being funded by botters and the bad publicity if the whole pack of cards crumbled and turned into what was humanly possible.


Revenue streams would be way, way higher if it was known that new players could actually make their way in the game as there would actually be a point in playing the game.

What REALLY, REALLY annoys me is that over the years more and more features have put into the baby of null sec, vast amounts of developers time and at the same time high sec has been nerfed year after year.

The net result ?

Resources are hogged in nullsec forcing those in highsec to play more or PAY MORE REAL LIFE CASH.

And what's worse ?

PvP corps and griefers paid for by botting accounts !

Not only is the high sec income reduced by botters the ISK is being used to destroy game play of the very people who pay for their services.

CCP you suck.

And what do we get ? New Christmas present of learning skills being removed - on face value a good thing,, great 8)

Hold on,, wont that mean you can now create a new botter account that much quicker ? Won't it also mean any passive earning accounts like PI can also be raised quicker.

Just another in a long line of dumbing down excercises dressed up as improvements but actually destroying peoples ISK earning potential specifcally targetted at those who actually pay for their accounts.

Cheers CCP thanks for making matters worse over the years.


Actually removing learning skills along with 1.6mil 100% learning bonus will increase time to make new botters (vide comparison of times needed to train for a drake widely used with hbot).

what I would like to know is whether highsec lvl5s were abused by bots (presumably no because scripting lvl4s would give more isk per account in the same time).

ILikeMarkets
Posted - 2010.12.10 15:21:00 - [227]
 

Edited by: ILikeMarkets on 10/12/2010 15:21:21
Originally by: Jaqel Broadside
Originally by: Ganagati
Edited by: Ganagati on 10/12/2010 13:57:53
This is what I love about MMO communities. People whine. They complain. They *****. They DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) action.

Fair enough. What action? They've been doing their best effort to spot using limited resources the botters and it seems to no avail.

So, is that it then? Do they throw in the towel. Well, that's up to you. You want to whine? Want to *****? Ok: I have your answer then- the answer Blizzard came up with and the only answer an MMO can truly turn to when all else fails.

Please go look up the Warden Client

If you cannot catch botters when you have limited resources, expand your resources. And do you know how the players react when they get what they have been so begging for?

They'll whine. They'll complain. They'll *****. They'll DEMAND (they are OWED/ENTITLED) that it is removed. And do you know what CCP will get for all their effort? 2,000+ subscriptions lost from the botters and the exact same number of angry players as before.

Yep, I can see why they are chomping at the bit to fix this.



Really ? They can't spot the botters ? Limited resources ? What a load of utter crap - never read such a load of utter complete crap in my life.

Exploit the mechanic of bots being linear in how they work -> store the results -> query and delete accounts.
Trace the ISK transfers of the accounts -> store the results -> delete the accounts.

Any programmer could do this kind of task in a few days including implementation. The database update would take a few minutes at most.


I agree with you in part CCP DONT WANT TO FIX THE PROBLEM.

Why ?

Simple all of Null Sec would be exposed as a complete sack of s**t,,, the only reason they allow it to continue is the press generated from the ever increased size of battles being funded by botters and the bad publicity if the whole pack of cards crumbled and turned into what was humanly possible.


Revenue streams would be way, way higher if it was known that new players could actually make their way in the game as there would actually be a point in playing the game.

What REALLY, REALLY annoys me is that over the years more and more features have put into the baby of null sec, vast amounts of developers time and at the same time high sec has been nerfed year after year.

The net result ?

Resources are hogged in nullsec forcing those in highsec to play more or PAY MORE REAL LIFE CASH.

And what's worse ?

PvP corps and griefers paid for by botting accounts !

Not only is the high sec income reduced by botters the ISK is being used to destroy game play of the very people who pay for their services.

CCP you suck.

And what do we get ? New Christmas present of learning skills being removed - on face value a good thing,, great 8)

Hold on,, wont that mean you can now create a new botter account that much quicker ? Won't it also mean any passive earning accounts like PI can also be raised quicker.

Just another in a long line of dumbing down excercises dressed up as improvements but actually destroying peoples ISK earning potential specifcally targetted at those who actually pay for their accounts.

Cheers CCP thanks for making matters worse over the years.


ConfusedShocked

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOxY_nHdew

Bractorlion
Posted - 2010.12.10 15:30:00 - [228]
 

I understand this is a problem, but I can't respect any post with caps, "haz" and grammar errors.

Per Bastet
Amarr
B.O.O.M
Obsidian Mining Coalition
Posted - 2010.12.10 15:31:00 - [229]
 

I have one Simple question - Why has CCP not even Posted a Yes we have Read this Thread Post? Or even a Post Stating that they are Now Aware how the Bots are Working and Will take Steps to prevent it?

WHY HAS THERE BEEN NO RESPONSE FROM CCP ON THIS THREAD?

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2010.12.10 16:17:00 - [230]
 

Do what they do on travian, when a person is suspected of botting they alone receive a captcha or whatever those things are called.

It is bloody effective how it works, no one gets banned but obvious automated stuff gets a captcha, if botters wish to be singled out then so be it.

People created new bots and **** but it has really turned into a nice system how they get the info on how the bot works put it in their anti bot system, so botters are always constantly having to update their program making it very difficult or inefficient to bot.

WOW has a [Teleport Botter] system to tackle botters, where known botters are typically teleported, there is a lot of ways to counter botters without damaging income or affect other players.

You should also hear some of the whines the bots use on travian, they will get a captcha and complain about it 12 hours later,

"Hi the reason I am complaining now is because when the captcha happened I decided to log off without bothering to fill it in"

"I am not a bot, the only reason I didnt bother filling in the captcha was because my computer crashed"

They measure the time it takes to respond to the captcha too and from their reports not a single bot has effectively replied, unfortunately their anti botting system requires you to be playing for 3 hours before it can recognise if you are a bot or not, but 3 hours is fine for eve imo.

Browser game has a better anti-botter program than eve Laughing

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2010.12.10 16:21:00 - [231]
 

Edited by: Cyaxares II on 10/12/2010 16:27:48
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 10/12/2010 16:23:53
Originally by: Per Bastet
I have one Simple question - Why has CCP not even Posted a Yes we have Read this Thread Post? Or even a Post Stating that they are Now Aware how the Bots are Working and Will take Steps to prevent it?

Because they have been aware of how bots work all the time and nothing has really changed during the last few months?

Because as of now this issue has not yet reached threadnaught status despite a massive "public awareness" campaign by Horus/Czech Lion (I think Akita's "Let's get rid of Dr. EyjoG" thread had more posts/support than this "Get rid of bots/RMT" campaign).

Because it's really hard to decide what steps CCP could take that wouldn't have the potential to backfire massively (Warden/Punkbuster like tools are "spyware", legit miners might get angry if they can't mine semi-afk anymore, removal of bots might have very undesirable effects on the in-game economy, maybe we're already at the point at which the numbers of bots is so high that CCP cannot really afford to lose that customer segment, ... and a thousand other plausible reasons).

To play WoW (or most other games) you have to be on keyboard all the time - when I doing mining or mission running in EVE, I am usually tabbed out (or do other stuff like laundry, dishes, ...) 80% of the time. Requiring captchas, mini-games, ... would make EVE require a lot more attention and by far not all players would like that.

Quote:
They measure the time it takes to respond to the captcha too and from their reports not a single bot has effectively replied

lol ... how can you quote such an obviously flawed argument with a straight face?

Vitamin B12
Posted - 2010.12.10 16:52:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Aelius
If i get elected to the CSM this matter will have my maximum priority.


thats the sad part of this. maybe ccp should focus on the 0.0 ratting mechanic. it looks like most of the bots do this...

[joke]
only a maximum of 10% play in 0.0 . remove it and the bots are away :) 90% of playerbase is happy.
[/joke]

Jaqel Broadside
Posted - 2010.12.10 17:04:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: Cyaxares II

To play WoW (or most other games) you have to be on keyboard all the time - when I doing mining or mission running in EVE, I am usually tabbed out (or do other stuff like laundry, dishes, ...) 80% of the time. Requiring captchas, mini-games, ... would make EVE require a lot more attention and by far not all players would like that.




Laundry does not take 80% of your time.

Most players who pay for their subscriptions will not accept botters of ANY description, WHATEVER the excuse.

If some players are upset at having to "interact" with the game then it's best they don't play a game that requires interaction.

Perhaps watching paint dry is more your forte ?

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2010.12.10 17:23:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: Cyaxares II
words


Did you miss the part where I said this only affects bot like behaviour, if you are tabbed out this WONT affect you?

How the hell do you manage todo a combat mission and do laundry & dishes anyway, besides I said this should affect ratting / mining bots

So if you are copying identical stuff as a bot, then you deserve to get a captcha, if you are doing the dishes a captcha wont appear because well you will be in game doing nothing, if you are doing the dishes and somehow magically mine at the same time I think you would deserve a captcha.

As far as I have seen, the anti-botting protocols used have been really effective

CCP Wrangler

Posted - 2010.12.10 18:25:00 - [235]
 

We’re currently putting together more information on our efforts to fight RMT and we will make that available to everyone next week. We appreciate that this is something you are all very passionate about and we look forward to answering your questions.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2010.12.10 18:30:00 - [236]
 

I suggest you kill them with fire. fire works good Twisted Evil

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2010.12.10 18:38:00 - [237]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
We’re currently putting together more information on our efforts to fight RMT and we will make that available to everyone next week. We appreciate that this is something you are all very passionate about and we look forward to answering your questions.


As it has been stated over and over the issue ISNT just RMT, it is botting used for personal gain, unholy rage targetted RMT ONLY.

CCP need to focus on botting in general careless of RMT, this includes macro ratting, macro mining and macro hauling, going after RMT ONLY just confirms the rumours that CCP dont care about botters unless they RMT.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2010.12.10 18:40:00 - [238]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 10/12/2010 18:54:13
Originally by: Kalle Demos
How the hell do you manage todo a combat mission and do laundry & dishes anyway, besides I said this should affect ratting / mining bots

activate perma-tank, pull aggro, deploy drones

Quote:
So if you are copying identical stuff as a bot, then you deserve to get a captcha, if you are doing the dishes a captcha wont appear because well you will be in game doing nothing, if you are doing the dishes and somehow magically mine at the same time I think you would deserve a captcha.

the way I mine is - activate mining lasers, do lots of stuff outside EVE, return when cargohold is full, put ore into can, reactivate lasers if necessary, tab out again.

I thought everybody did it this way... (especially when mining ice) do you really think people sit in front of EVE to watch their mining laser cycle?

The only reason to do mining when considering the ISK/hour is because you can do a lot of stuff OOG at the same time, if you intend to play EVE actively mission running is the much better choice given the same total SP.

That's why I am very critical that gameplay changes to make mining more "interesting" or less suited for semi-afk play will result in a lot of protest by non-botting miners.

The perfect negative example for this sort of changes is Runescape where they introduced a mechanic that gets you randomly teleported into stupid minigames when Jagex decided to seriously fight botting and RMT. Along with various restriction on trades between characters this move did cost them a lot of subscribers.

edit. wrong character, Cyaxares is my alt

edit2: how exactly do you imagine this bot detection would work? not exactly hard for the bot author to introduce substantial randomization of bot behavior.

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2010.12.10 18:52:00 - [239]
 

Edited by: Kalle Demos on 10/12/2010 19:12:21
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 10/12/2010 18:40:43
Originally by: Kalle Demos
How the hell do you manage todo a combat mission and do laundry & dishes anyway, besides I said this should affect ratting / mining bots

activate perma-tank, pull aggro, deploy drones

edit. wrong character, Cyaxares is my alt


Ok well eitherway anti-botting wont affect you, because A no macro would be even remotely efficient doing that (because of triggers, different missions and just a bad way of doing missions tbh) and B because you arent ‘clicking’ or doing anything so it is obvious you are afk :P

When you are mining, despite being able todo it with little attention you still have to click one every few mins, your style of mission running doesnt. With mining your clicks wont be consistent and if it is for hours and hours you are obviously using a bot

E- Replied too fast I see Laughing

Ok let me explain how this works in travian and wow terms.

When a macro, bot, script comes out, the script is usually or eventually brought to the attention of the GMs, because warden sucks.

The script is checked and compared to gameplay, so when a monkey does IDENTICAL stuff that a bot does they will get flagged.

Travian does captcha and is really effective, in WOW you are usually convo'd by a GM first then teleported, this was even introduced well before they got 394593479583 players

But lets look at what X-XXX asks a player todo when they are ratting (since I cant find info on the best mining bot yet).

Your UI needs to pretty much be identical to what it says
Your overview needs to be identical
You need to have auto reject on
You need to have your weapons etc in the exact same place
You need to have your cargo and local in the exact same place
You need to have you display setting identical
You need the exact same setup
You need the exact same column length
You need the overview top tab the same
You need the overview tabs identical
You need 'Warp to' button needs to be a different distance
You need your drones tab the same
You need message reporting the same
You need the same stuff pinned
And for the sake of things, it says it is best to use a drake but can adapt to any ship

This list goes on and on, it even asks for your personal stuff unrelated to the game like graphic settings

On top of all this the script most likely has the same "warp, shoot, wait" command delays

The fotm bot that everyone uses isnt all that special, I read from their guide and it is a crappy generic macro, this thread has gotten more attention than the sphere exploit and as always RMT will only get dealt with, because they dont want to upset 0.0 alliances.

And now I have gone to an all new level of mad & bitter

ILikeMarkets
Posted - 2010.12.10 19:16:00 - [240]
 

lmao wow. Captcha has to be the dumbest EVE idea I've ever heard of.

I can see it now- miner is going. Suddenly a ganker warps into the belt. Time to leav...

LOLCAPTCHA!!! Worst timing ever. Please fill me out before you can warp to safety.

Bye bye hulk. :)


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