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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Cunane Jeran
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.23 23:29:00 - [2341]
 

+1 adding my voice to the topic

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.24 03:07:00 - [2342]
 

ban their Device ID, serial numbers... permanently

riverini
Gallente
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.04.24 06:42:00 - [2343]
 

Originally by: Opertone
ban their Device ID, serial numbers... permanently


I guess u mean local MAC address? if so I approve! armchair hackers, please name countermeasures and how hard could they be?

BTW, this thread has potential... YARRRR!!ShockedShockedShocked

Niegel
Posted - 2011.04.24 06:45:00 - [2344]
 


Why not take a totaly other root.

Give ppl who are a certain number of days (I don't say how much, because that would be just a detail) 23/7 in eve a health-ban of say 2 hours, graduatly going to a max of 6 hours in the timezone where it is night in there country.

Because eve is a big sandbox: if you are in a corp which is at war, your number of days before the heathwarning is going into effect is extended by an other certain amound of days.

It would have a impact on all botting - mining, missioning and pvp-ing - in eve end ccp can try in the meantime curtail it some more.

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.04.24 07:11:00 - [2345]
 

In other news, I found a system with 6 or 7 perma-ratters, and petitioned them last night. They were perpetually logged in, and ratting in 0.0.

Today they're not online. Hey now!

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.04.24 08:00:00 - [2346]
 

Originally by: riverini
Originally by: Opertone
ban their Device ID, serial numbers... permanently


I guess u mean local MAC address? if so I approve! armchair hackers, please name countermeasures and how hard could they be?


sudo ifconfig eth0 hw ether 01:02:03:04:05:06

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.04.24 09:09:00 - [2347]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: riverini
Originally by: Opertone
ban their Device ID, serial numbers... permanently


I guess u mean local MAC address? if so I approve! armchair hackers, please name countermeasures and how hard could they be?


sudo ifconfig eth0 hw ether 01:02:03:04:05:06


Funny becauase it's true Laughing

Kina Ayami
Affari Sporchi
Posted - 2011.04.24 09:13:00 - [2348]
 

+ 1 to this topic.

Ban the bots!

Crucis Cassiopeiae
Amarr
PORSCHE AG
Posted - 2011.04.24 17:14:00 - [2349]
 

Edited by: Crucis Cassiopeiae on 24/04/2011 17:15:03
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: riverini
Originally by: Opertone
ban their Device ID, serial numbers... permanently


I guess u mean local MAC address? if so I approve! armchair hackers, please name countermeasures and how hard could they be?


sudo ifconfig eth0 hw ether 01:02:03:04:05:06




thats in Linux...

in Mac OS:
sudo ifconfig en0 lladdr 01:02:03:04:05:06

and in Win a little play with registry...


Laughing


P.S.
may be the best way is baning of hardware serial numbers... (like ban of that HDD or MB)

CCP Sreegs

Posted - 2011.04.25 04:32:00 - [2350]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Does anyone here believe that with maximal effort to the extent that CCP could wage war on bots without adversely affecting legit players that we'll be completely bot free?

Very seriously my answer would be NO.

I suggest that CCP stop fighting the bots. People are botting for isk, because content is just Fing boring, they don't have 30 hours a day to play Eve in a competitive way, the grind is just too Fing long in this game. Don't tell me the grind isn't too long. I live in a wh. On most days 200mil/hour PVE is very possible. It still just isn't enough when you consider all the isk sinks, operational costs, etc.

So, my suggestion is CCP, stop fighting the bots. Change the EULA to allow them. Then offer your own "official CCP BOT" to accommodate the game's psspoor, boring, mind-numbingly vacant content where isk making is concerned. If people don't want to buy your bots, fine, they can make their own within limitations, no modding the client. Every expansion/update you can introduce some non-official bot breaking mechanic or something that requires them to adjust their personal bots while the CCP bots keep chugging along.




This is simply not going to happen. Move on.

CCP Sreegs

Posted - 2011.04.25 04:34:00 - [2351]
 

Originally by: Iarga
Edited by: Iarga on 19/04/2011 07:27:08
Originally by: Puppet Mas'ter
Edited by: Puppet Mas''ter on 19/04/2011 01:44:37
lol tho, we dont have to worry about the botters, theres only 9000 of them in the game

9000 / 360000

well thats if mothermoon's numbers are right

link


thats still 9000 people that need to be banned..

9000 bots that run for 23/7 can still cause a great deal of economic damage (give me a oprinting press to print billions fake euros and no police and ill show you what damage i can do to your country :P )

ow btw bots are rising again...for 2 weeks i had no more then 4-5 players in the ice belt...since yesterday 12 and rising(and some that where there before 23/7

CCP temp bans alone doesnt work with bot users...al least trip them of the right to use plex/sell char after getting a ban for a longer time IMO




I would welcome some interaction about how those numbers were reached to security@ccpgames.com. I don't believe them to be accurate, but I respect your statement.

CCP Sreegs

Posted - 2011.04.25 04:35:00 - [2352]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
CCP, don't you think its a little embarrassing to have a 78 page botting thread on your main message board?


Not at all. I'd be glad I wasn't playing some other MMO where botting was happening and we shoved the problem under the door as opposed to taking it head on.

CCP Sreegs

Posted - 2011.04.25 04:37:00 - [2353]
 

Originally by: riverini
Originally by: Opertone
ban their Device ID, serial numbers... permanently


I guess u mean local MAC address? if so I approve! armchair hackers, please name countermeasures and how hard could they be?

BTW, this thread has potential... YARRRR!!ShockedShockedShocked


By all means, elaborate...

riverini
Gallente
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.04.25 04:37:00 - [2354]
 

Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Mr Kidd
Does anyone here believe that with maximal effort to the extent that CCP could wage war on bots without adversely affecting legit players that we'll be completely bot free?

Very seriously my answer would be NO.

I suggest that CCP stop fighting the bots. People are botting for isk, because content is just Fing boring, they don't have 30 hours a day to play Eve in a competitive way, the grind is just too Fing long in this game. Don't tell me the grind isn't too long. I live in a wh. On most days 200mil/hour PVE is very possible. It still just isn't enough when you consider all the isk sinks, operational costs, etc.

So, my suggestion is CCP, stop fighting the bots. Change the EULA to allow them. Then offer your own "official CCP BOT" to accommodate the game's psspoor, boring, mind-numbingly vacant content where isk making is concerned. If people don't want to buy your bots, fine, they can make their own within limitations, no modding the client. Every expansion/update you can introduce some non-official bot breaking mechanic or something that requires them to adjust their personal bots while the CCP bots keep chugging along.




This is simply not going to happen. Move on.


You know, i would add such adamant bot defenders to my watch-list if I could.

Keep up the good work.

riverini
Gallente
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.04.25 04:40:00 - [2355]
 

Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: riverini
Originally by: Opertone
ban their Device ID, serial numbers... permanently


I guess u mean local MAC address? if so I approve! armchair hackers, please name countermeasures and how hard could they be?

BTW, this thread has potential... YARRRR!!ShockedShockedShocked


By all means, elaborate...


where I want to go, if if you guys really filter IP's from proxy origin, and if there is actually a way where you could ensure permanent bans for really serious offenders, that's it.

Some other players mentioned more definite ways to ensure you could identify previous offenders.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.04.25 09:02:00 - [2356]
 

Originally by: Crucis Cassiopeiae

P.S.
may be the best way is baning of hardware serial numbers... (like ban of that HDD or MB)


Let me introduce you to this fun little invention, called the virtual machine...

Micky rox
Posted - 2011.04.25 09:17:00 - [2357]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Does anyone here believe that with maximal effort to the extent that CCP could wage war on bots without adversely affecting legit players that we'll be completely bot free?

Very seriously my answer would be NO.

I suggest that CCP stop fighting the bots. People are botting for isk, because content is just Fing boring, they don't have 30 hours a day to play Eve in a competitive way, the grind is just too Fing long in this game. Don't tell me the grind isn't too long. I live in a wh. On most days 200mil/hour PVE is very possible. It still just isn't enough when you consider all the isk sinks, operational costs, etc.

So, my suggestion is CCP, stop fighting the bots. Change the EULA to allow them. Then offer your own "official CCP BOT" to accommodate the game's psspoor, boring, mind-numbingly vacant content where isk making is concerned. If people don't want to buy your bots, fine, they can make their own within limitations, no modding the client. Every expansion/update you can introduce some non-official bot breaking mechanic or something that requires them to adjust their personal bots while the CCP bots keep chugging along.




NO..

It would not be so fking boring and time consuming if it was not for all that botted isk in the circulation, basically lazy people used bots and generated so much isk and now the legit player can't be fked to play no more because they feel they can't compete.

If they just leave it and do nothing it will only get worse and worse until everyone has to use a bot just so they can afford a ship, I've seen it happen in so many other games, items get to a ridiculous price due to inflation through bot use and that kills games!

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.25 09:23:00 - [2358]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: riverini
Originally by: Opertone
ban their Device ID, serial numbers... permanently


I guess u mean local MAC address? if so I approve! armchair hackers, please name countermeasures and how hard could they be?


sudo ifconfig eth0 hw ether 01:02:03:04:05:06



Its even simpler than that. Pretty much every cable router I've ever seen has an option to clone a MAC or enter your own MAC.

Also, every single network card here has the option in its settings to spoof a MAC in Windows 7, Vista or XP. If its not in the settings then you can do it via the registry.

You might have more luck with ADSL routers that can't bridge - most of them don't offer any way of changing the MAC via the web interface. However if the telnet interface is up then its usually just the same as Linux - ie same as your command above.

Revolution Rising
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.04.25 09:32:00 - [2359]
 

I'd like to know if people are experiencing that CCP is really doing something about this?

Or are they just making noise?

I notice trit prices have increased. Both the market and industry as a whole need work, but I really think personally the RMT thing will be half the fight to making mining/industry a viable profession again (as it once was).

Do people think the trit price went up as a result of something CCP did or just an aftershock of the capital losses in the north?

Micky rox
Posted - 2011.04.25 09:42:00 - [2360]
 

Don't even need to play with registry in windows...

Network and Sharing Centre > Change adapter settings > right click on adapter name, then Properties > Configure > Advanced tab > Network address

Then change the value in there to something like 0007083B7C33

Also useful from command prompt 'ipconfig -all' You can then see your adapters physical addresses

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.25 12:28:00 - [2361]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Crucis Cassiopeiae

P.S.
may be the best way is baning of hardware serial numbers... (like ban of that HDD or MB)


Let me introduce you to this fun little invention, called the virtual machine...

Obviously it is impossible to make sure someone is permabanned, but still I think using hardware serial number is useful, and then mainly to completely ban all of their accounts.


Because what I like to hear from sreegs, how are botters punished, only the botting accounts with lol-14 day bans while keeping their account until finally permabanned accounts, or do you actually do something against their mains, which is the only thing that would have effect against the non-RMT botting (which is imo the largest problem).
Sure some will make sure there is absolutely no direct link between their botting account and a clean account, but the vast majority will not go further than proxies to hide their IP, if they even do that, and then hardware identifiers can help to identify their other accounts and also ban them.

CCP Sreegs

Posted - 2011.04.25 12:36:00 - [2362]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Crucis Cassiopeiae

P.S.
may be the best way is baning of hardware serial numbers... (like ban of that HDD or MB)


Let me introduce you to this fun little invention, called the virtual machine...

Obviously it is impossible to make sure someone is permabanned, but still I think using hardware serial number is useful, and then mainly to completely ban all of their accounts.


Because what I like to hear from sreegs, how are botters punished, only the botting accounts with lol-14 day bans while keeping their account until finally permabanned accounts, or do you actually do something against their mains, which is the only thing that would have effect against the non-RMT botting (which is imo the largest problem).
Sure some will make sure there is absolutely no direct link between their botting account and a clean account, but the vast majority will not go further than proxies to hide their IP, if they even do that, and then hardware identifiers can help to identify their other accounts and also ban them.


They'd love to know this as well.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.04.25 14:07:00 - [2363]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 25/04/2011 14:10:14
Originally by: Furb Killer

Sure some will make sure there is absolutely no direct link between their botting account and a clean account, but the vast majority will not go further than proxies to hide their IP, if they even do that, and then hardware identifiers can help to identify their other accounts and also ban them.


Tutorials on how to use vmware player to neatly separate your botting account and client from your computer and throw off ccp's data collection habits aren't exactly well hidden, you know?
In fact, vm use is widespread amongst people who do not want to run their bots on a separate machine. The few people who don't do this have little impact on the economic damage, as opposed to the big botting operations la drone region renters.

Originally by: Revolution Rising

Do people think the trit price went up as a result of something CCP did or just an aftershock of the capital losses in the north?



Capital losses have no impact on mineral prices anymore. Everyone is building at maximum capacity and is booked out for months whether the ships die or not.

Lelob
Posted - 2011.04.25 19:18:00 - [2364]
 

Originally by: Micky rox
Originally by: Mr Kidd
Does anyone here believe that with maximal effort to the extent that CCP could wage war on bots without adversely affecting legit players that we'll be completely bot free?

Very seriously my answer would be NO.

I suggest that CCP stop fighting the bots. People are botting for isk, because content is just Fing boring, they don't have 30 hours a day to play Eve in a competitive way, the grind is just too Fing long in this game. Don't tell me the grind isn't too long. I live in a wh. On most days 200mil/hour PVE is very possible. It still just isn't enough when you consider all the isk sinks, operational costs, etc.

So, my suggestion is CCP, stop fighting the bots. Change the EULA to allow them. Then offer your own "official CCP BOT" to accommodate the game's psspoor, boring, mind-numbingly vacant content where isk making is concerned. If people don't want to buy your bots, fine, they can make their own within limitations, no modding the client. Every expansion/update you can introduce some non-official bot breaking mechanic or something that requires them to adjust their personal bots while the CCP bots keep chugging along.




NO..

It would not be so fking boring and time consuming if it was not for all that botted isk in the circulation, basically lazy people used bots and generated so much isk and now the legit player can't be fked to play no more because they feel they can't compete.

If they just leave it and do nothing it will only get worse and worse until everyone has to use a bot just so they can afford a ship, I've seen it happen in so many other games, items get to a ridiculous price due to inflation through bot use and that kills games!


Staring at a bunch of rocks for several hours on end slowly decrease is not going to be made more interesting by bots being removed. The post was well thought out and entirely correct. PVE in this game is ****ing boring, and it's no wonder there are those who would want to cheat at it to avoid it. Incursions and wh's were a good start, but not nearly enough. Missions, npc ai, mining and pos' all are in severe need of a rework so that they are actually interesting. Obviously bots create problems in and of themselves, but it begs the question why some people bot in the first place. Obviously for some it's about making thousands in RMT, but I imagine for a lot of people it's because they want to play the game in a fun and interesting way, and unfortunately PVE simply doesn't fit that description.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.04.25 20:20:00 - [2365]
 

Originally by: Lelob

Staring at a bunch of rocks for several hours on end slowly decrease is not going to be made more interesting by bots being removed. The post was well thought out and entirely correct.


That does not mean, however, that bots should be made officially endorsed tools.

It means that CCP needs to do some proper game design for once.

Lelob
Posted - 2011.04.25 20:25:00 - [2366]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Lelob

Staring at a bunch of rocks for several hours on end slowly decrease is not going to be made more interesting by bots being removed. The post was well thought out and entirely correct.


That does not mean, however, that bots should be made officially endorsed tools.

It means that CCP needs to do some proper game design for once.


Fair play. It would certainly be much more welcome then new turret effects/nebulas/eye candy.

GIGAR
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.25 20:32:00 - [2367]
 

Seeing Sreegs's posting returned a good deal of my faith in the EVE devs again; Maybe they DO care, after all YARRRR!!

Valustus
Posted - 2011.04.25 20:50:00 - [2368]
 

Originally by: Lelob

...
[1] Staring at a bunch of rocks for several hours on end slowly decrease is not going to be made more interesting by bots being removed.
...
[2] PVE in this game is ******* boring
...
[3] a fun and interesting way, and unfortunately PVE simply doesn't fit that description.


1) No, but it will make more ISK faster so far fewer hours need be spent if the bots are gone.
2) Your personal opinion. Fortunately, I'm not playing in your FPS console game.
3) Ditto.

The greatest attraction to Eve is that it is a fully rounded game. If you want to wage war (PvP in smaller or larger expressions) one must have the Industrial base to support going to war. Poor nations either cannot fight at all or quickly lose to an opposition with a better logistical foundation.

If you want to PvP you must pay for the materiel.
There are three ways to do this:
a) Generate more ISK than you lose in PvP. Attaboy!
b) Make ISK some other way to support your aggression/hobby. There are many ways to do this. Mining, often, being merely the entry point profession.
c) Pump RL money in by buying GTC/PLEX. (An option I wish did not exist.)

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.04.25 21:09:00 - [2369]
 

Edited by: Vincent Athena on 25/04/2011 23:50:36
Originally by: CCP Sreegs
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Crucis Cassiopeiae

P.S.
may be the best way is baning of hardware serial numbers... (like ban of that HDD or MB)


Let me introduce you to this fun little invention, called the virtual machine...

Obviously it is impossible to make sure someone is permabanned, but still I think using hardware serial number is useful, and then mainly to completely ban all of their accounts.


Because what I like to hear from sreegs, how are botters punished, only the botting accounts with lol-14 day bans while keeping their account until finally permabanned accounts, or do you actually do something against their mains, which is the only thing that would have effect against the non-RMT botting (which is imo the largest problem).
Sure some will make sure there is absolutely no direct link between their botting account and a clean account, but the vast majority will not go further than proxies to hide their IP, if they even do that, and then hardware identifiers can help to identify their other accounts and also ban them.


They'd love to know this as well.


Er, CCP Sreegs, they do know. If you ban someone for botting, they know you banned them. If you also ban the account of their main, they know that. If you do not ban the account of their main, they know that too. You cannot ban a player and not have that player know they have been banned.

You know how they are being punished. They know what punishment they have received. The only ones who are being kept in the dark are us EULA abiding players.

Edit: grammer

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.25 21:24:00 - [2370]
 

@ Mr Kidd - Since you make it very clear that you want CCP to embrace botting, be hopeful that I don't catch you botting.


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