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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:18:00 - [2251]
 

I would say there is a pretty clear connection between the new EVE forums (as well as others) having a security breach, and the current botter purge. We haven't seen this sort of concentrated attempt to bring down EVE related forums since Unholy Rage.

Apparently, they are doing something right.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:26:00 - [2252]
 

Originally by: Demoness Lolth
ironic QQ and rant about QQing and ranting



Again, shouldnt you have black skin and white hair?


Paul Mustaka Hekard
Posted - 2011.04.12 02:09:00 - [2253]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
I would say there is a pretty clear connection between the new EVE forums (as well as others) having a security breach, and the current botter purge. We haven't seen this sort of concentrated attempt to bring down EVE related forums since Unholy Rage.

Apparently, they are doing something right.


Not sure if I am just dense (in before comment, I can be), but could you please expound upon this post. I have no clear idea what you are talking about. For an allegedly "clear connection", I am not making the leap with you, bud.

Genetically Different
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:22:00 - [2254]
 

CCP wont do any thing REAL about RMTs and Marcos for the same reason that Blizard never does anything about them in WOW.

THEY BRING DOLLARS INTO THEIR ACCOUNT.
the whole EVE ecconomy is based on it now. Its to late.

another MMO buggered. I guess Ill start looking for a new one
one that actually does some thing about it..

Wish me luck.

Genetically Different
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:30:00 - [2255]
 

How about some reall punishment for botters.....

I have read a little bit of this post.. seems "IF" a RMT is caught he can transfer a toon off a banned account onto a new account ???

How about CCP DELETES THE ACCOUNT ?? ALL THE TOONS AND ALL THE ISK ???
Im talking for the bigguns.

Now thats punishment. hit them in the pocket.

How about any account registered to that person ???
Get serious, If you can prove they are a RMT the do something real.. not a little baby slap.

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:43:00 - [2256]
 

Edited by: Chesty McJubblies on 12/04/2011 13:43:20
nvm

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:52:00 - [2257]
 

Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Lubomir Penev

That would crash PLEX market, and CCP somehow like its PLEX despite them being the biggest botting enabler, because they are not content with our subscription money but want their share of the RMT pie too.
...

But CCP is far too corrupt to ever do this, lets get real one moment. They tasted the RMT money and they want more, even if this will kill their game medium term...


*facepalm* Seriously? PLEX is a VERY effective way of combating the RMT'rs from one angle (it's a multifront battle).


PLEX is official RMT, so just competition for the non CCP RMTers. It's also a huge botting enabler as you can nowadays create and play on an account completely anonymously through proxies, paying with PLEX, never having let CCP tie an account to anything resembling a RL identity. If you add the hurdle of having a valid credit card to each account you then tie accounts more to a RL identity and when you catch one botter it's easier to follow the tracks and ban every single account with a connection.

PLEX was sold to us as a mean to fight RMT (it obviously failed) but it's really CCP attempt to get its share of the huge RMT pie, I can't see it any other way.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:53:00 - [2258]
 

Originally by: Genetically Different
CCP wont do any thing REAL about RMTs and Marcos for the same reason that Blizard never does anything about them in WOW.

THEY BRING DOLLARS INTO THEIR ACCOUNT.
the whole EVE ecconomy is based on it now. Its to late.

another MMO buggered. I guess Ill start looking for a new one
one that actually does some thing about it..

Wish me luck.


Warhammer online did

...oh

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.12 14:01:00 - [2259]
 

Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Lubomir Penev

That would crash PLEX market, and CCP somehow like its PLEX despite them being the biggest botting enabler, because they are not content with our subscription money but want their share of the RMT pie too.
...

But CCP is far too corrupt to ever do this, lets get real one moment. They tasted the RMT money and they want more, even if this will kill their game medium term...


*facepalm* Seriously? PLEX is a VERY effective way of combating the RMT'rs from one angle (it's a multifront battle).


And it is a very effective way of promoting botting.

Why do people continue to confuse RMT and botting. Personally I dont really care about RMT anyway, what is the big deal about it? The only issue I got with RMT is that they got their ISK vs less than legit means. Yes and of course it is not nice you get an advantage by spending lots of RL money, but well, welcome to the character bazaar and plexes.

Imo botting is a way bigger issue then RMT'ing. Not only because RMT'ers use botting to get their ISK, but the simple issue is that certain players/groups have pretty much unlimitted funds due to botting, and for me it doesnt matter if that is directly botting or someone else botted and they payed them RL money to get the ISK, the end result is the same, the beginning is the same, only there is another step in between.

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:00:00 - [2260]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Why do people continue to confuse RMT and botting.


Possibly because RMT is a subset of the (hardcore) botters.

As stated, RMT affects us all the same (via reducing CCP's income,if you want to argue that).

Botting affects the people that don't bot.

Buster Gonads
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:57:00 - [2261]
 

Reported a mining bot Sunday. Courteous reply from GM and a few hours later the bot is nowhere to be seen. In fact haven't seen the character log-in since. I wonder if it was hit with the ban stick? If so, that would be a very quick response indeed :p.

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.04.12 16:05:00 - [2262]
 

Originally by: Buster Gonads
Reported a mining bot Sunday. Courteous reply from GM and a few hours later the bot is nowhere to be seen. In fact haven't seen the character log-in since. I wonder if it was hit with the ban stick? If so, that would be a very quick response indeed :p.


Count to 3 (days), and see if it returns.

Aquila Draco
Posted - 2011.04.12 20:23:00 - [2263]
 

Originally by: Genetically Different
How about some reall punishment for botters.....

I have read a little bit of this post.. seems "IF" a RMT is caught he can transfer a toon off a banned account onto a new account ???

How about CCP DELETES THE ACCOUNT ?? ALL THE TOONS AND ALL THE ISK ???
Im talking for the bigguns.

Now thats punishment. hit them in the pocket.

How about any account registered to that person ???
Get serious, If you can prove they are a RMT the do something real.. not a little baby slap.



+99999999999999

Severian Carnifex
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.13 10:55:00 - [2264]
 

@ All:

ppl, do you see any results of this anti bot war???

Iarga
Posted - 2011.04.13 12:06:00 - [2265]
 

Originally by: Severian Carnifex
@ All:

ppl, do you see any results of this anti bot war???


i do

as miner i see a loooot less bots flying into the belt and warping out when full.. thats ore

i also mine ice at times(boring but good when doing some reading/yotube/movie.) i se a mass change, there used to be at least 30 people in the icebelt now only 4-5 huge change.

sure as i said before botting most likely never gonna be solved the problem was that for eve the software was easy to find..easy to run...and in some cases..free... but now CCP stepping in the majority of the botter wont risk it any more...and it shows :)

lets keep it that way CCP :P

Guitonkagya
Minmatar
The Ouroboros Partnership
Posted - 2011.04.13 12:30:00 - [2266]
 

Edited by: Guitonkagya on 13/04/2011 12:31:11
Originally by: Severian Carnifex
@ All:

ppl, do you see any results of this anti bot war???


Not in my system.....yet, though I have reported 7 bots in my system alone via the petition and e-mailing security@ccpgames.com but days later they are still here.

Lets just hope that they are inundated with Bot reports and will get round to every single one in time.

I would like to see more communication from CCP.






Gartanus
Caldari
Gartanus Corp
Posted - 2011.04.13 12:46:00 - [2267]
 

Edited by: Gartanus on 13/04/2011 12:47:31

Gartanus
Caldari
Gartanus Corp
Posted - 2011.04.13 12:51:00 - [2268]
 

Originally by: Iarga
Originally by: Severian Carnifex
@ All:




i do

as miner i see a loooot less bots flying into the belt and warping out when full.. thats ore

Just wanted to clarify somthing here. Just cause someone warps out when full does not automatically make them a bot. I warp out when I am full just cause I do not trust mining into a can just to have some one flip it on me. Plus I mine alone a lot of the time so that is another reason I warp out and unload then come back for another session. Just saying that not all of us are bots that are warping out full.

Lukas Rox
Torchwood Archive
Posted - 2011.04.13 13:39:00 - [2269]
 

Originally by: Iarga
Originally by: Severian Carnifex
@ All:

ppl, do you see any results of this anti bot war???


i do

as miner i see a loooot less bots flying into the belt and warping out when full.. thats ore

i also mine ice at times(boring but good when doing some reading/yotube/movie.) i se a mass change, there used to be at least 30 people in the icebelt now only 4-5 huge change.

sure as i said before botting most likely never gonna be solved the problem was that for eve the software was easy to find..easy to run...and in some cases..free... but now CCP stepping in the majority of the botter wont risk it any more...and it shows :)

lets keep it that way CCP :P


No mate, that's not CCPs doing. That's Hulkageddon's ;-)

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.13 16:36:00 - [2270]
 

I think I'm seeing a downturn in ratting bots over the last few days but I'm not sure.

The change could be due to the sov upgrades alterations (sanctums/etc). However it seems to be affecting npc null as well, so I really don't know.

Also there's a couple of minor wars on so maybe people are actually fighting. Long shot I know but meh Razz

If I were to speculate I think that you'd find people that use one sort of bot (eg mining) are quite happy to use any other sort of bot too. For example if you want bounties you're hardly likely to bot in the drone regions, but an alt in a npc region could provide the personal isk while the other alt grinds for alliance/rent. One gets hit with the banstick then so does the other.

Gut feeling is that the drops in sov space are due to the upgrades changes; in npc space they're due to war "oop North" Very Happy

Mining bots were always going to be the "low-hanging fruit" (ie - easy to ban/obstruct) from a malware/IDS point of view. By that I mean - easy to do, little/no adverse effects on customer service resources/provable to civil court standards.

I suspect that coming up with a similar "Ratbot" detector is proving somewhat intractable. It IS going to require human interaction/intervention on a fairly frequent basis and I rather suspect the recent truesec interactions are intended to give CCP more time to work out a more proactive position.

Yeah I know that sounds like management BS and it is, but there comes a point that most companies realise that they're losing the fight.

I suspect CCP have (nearly) reached this point and what you're seeing now is a little transition from "No idea who can deal with that at 2am in Iceland... No I've no idea who you'd email...Raise a petition" to "OK we have a plan for this".

Long long long way to go given the Eve playerbase and the (almost normal now?) metagaming aspects of Eve.

I think they've made a start.

PS - The new forums nonsense just says to me "don't ever do this in-house again". Stop re-inventing the wheel, plenty of companies could have had new forums designed, secured and probably with more bells and whistles than your guys could come up with in another 35 man-years Rolling Eyes Long long way to go there.....


coolzero
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.13 16:59:00 - [2271]
 

Edited by: coolzero on 13/04/2011 17:00:42
i see a lot less of bots for sure :D

Slate Shoa
Posted - 2011.04.13 17:58:00 - [2272]
 

Originally by: Slate Shoa
Edited by: Slate Shoa on 02/04/2011 17:26:37
Originally by: CCP Sreegs, post #1907
Originally by: Slate Shoa
Questions:

**SNIP** (question was answered)

2) What is CCP going to do to continually prove to the playerbase that bans for botting are:
a) occurring at a significant rate (ex: not one botter per day)?
b) severe enough to be a significant deterrence (ex: not one day bans)?

My take on the subject:

Any feature to report bots is meaningless unless CCP can prove that they are continuously acting upon player reports of bots. Playerbase confidence in CCP's willingness to act on player reports must be restored. The bans must also be significant in penalty and rate of occurrence.


The presentation addresses this specifically.

and
Originally by: Slate Shoa, post #1987
Quote:
EVE Fanfest 2011 Security Presentation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4gZm-85JOs

From the presentation, it looks like CCP is streamlining the bot reporting process and coming up with ways to avoid having to make judgment calls for each bot report. This streamlining is good.

I would still like to hear what is being done to continually prove that bot reports are being acted upon. In the presentation CCP Sreegs was commenting about how the old bot reporting system has a bad (no) feedback system. It seemed that Sreegs was going to comment on how the new bot reporting system feedback would be changed, but then it looked like Sreegs forgot to talk about it (assuming there was something planned).

Are the players who report bots going to be notified if their reports successfully catch a botter? Is there going to be a Wall-of-Shame (or equivalent)?

If some privacy agreement is preventing CCP from disclosing the result of a bot report, then that privacy agreement needs to be changed. CCP needs to be visible in its handling of botters and continually prove to the playerbase that botters are being delt with; lack of visibility will lead to additional (and justified) anti-botter rage.

I will wait for the Devblog to be published to see if my concerns are addressed there.

I am still waiting on the Devblog...
Confirming that I am still waiting on the Devblog...

I'm hoping it will address the topics:
1) Improving the feedback from CCP received by players who report bots, and
2) How CCP is going to prove regularly that CCP is taking action against botters.

(I understand that the forum issues have taken more of Sreegs' attention, which is reasonable.)

Yuda Mann
Posted - 2011.04.13 19:06:00 - [2273]
 

Originally by: Iarga
as miner i see a loooot less bots flying into the belt and warping out when full.. thats ore

i also mine ice at times(boring but good when doing some reading/yotube/movie.) i se a mass change, there used to be at least 30 people in the icebelt now only 4-5 huge change.


A large number of mining corps and alliances have been wardec'd in the past couple weeks. You're not seeing the effect of CCP's bans, you're seen the effect of a whole lot of wardecs. As the wars drag on you'll start seeing more miners in NPC corps.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.04.13 23:32:00 - [2274]
 

Originally by: Slate Shoa


(I understand that the forum issues have taken more of Sreegs' attention, which is reasonable.)


The ****storm over the weekend was hoped to be making it so people would forget this problem

Aubrey Addams
Posted - 2011.04.14 09:01:00 - [2275]
 

EXUSE ME BUT WHERE IS THAT "REPORT BOTTING" BUTTON THEY PROMISED? Botters seems to be populating the belts here again.

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.04.14 11:02:00 - [2276]
 

Edited by: Chesty McJubblies on 14/04/2011 16:13:20
Edited by: Chesty McJubblies on 14/04/2011 15:40:04
Out of curiosity, how many destroyers would it take to kill an untanked Hulk? I tried logging into the test server last night to find out, but it wouldn't load.

In related news, PL guy kills Russian botter, and gets kicked from PL as a result.

Edit - EN24 link

Also, thanks to Barrakus for this.. interesting pics

Severian Carnifex
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.14 19:20:00 - [2277]
 

Originally by: Chesty McJubblies
Edited by: Chesty McJubblies on 14/04/2011 16:13:20
Edited by: Chesty McJubblies on 14/04/2011 15:40:04
Out of curiosity, how many destroyers would it take to kill an untanked Hulk? I tried logging into the test server last night to find out, but it wouldn't load.

In related news, PL guy kills Russian botter, and gets kicked from PL as a result.

Edit - EN24 link

Also, thanks to Barrakus for this.. interesting pics



LOL... this is funny... and sad...


and about destroyers... well... 1BS, 2 volleys and almost every hulk is dead (i dont know for some uber fits, so thats why almost)... i hope this helps and you can recalculate that for destroyers...

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.04.14 20:14:00 - [2278]
 

Are anyone experiencing bots asking them to sell your contracts a little cheaper then the price you are asking for?

I've had the same person write me 3 times now, on 3 different contracts, and the conv is always the same. First he ask me to sell it something like 20M lower then the price i'm asking, when i say no he tries with 15M lower. He says the exact same thing every time, and always closes the conv without saying anything after the second attempt, and it always happens 5-10M after i posted the contract.


Anyone else experiencing this?

VaMei
Posted - 2011.04.14 21:06:00 - [2279]
 

Edited by: VaMei on 14/04/2011 21:06:16
Originally by: Severian Carnifex
@ All:
ppl, do you see any results of this anti bot war???


In some of my low-sec travels, there were systems with players that might have been bots that seemed to be running courier missions every time I passed through. They had names that took more thought than rolling your face on the keyboard and were in player corps, so I can't say for sure that they were bots. Because they were in corps with some of the area's known pirates, I didn't go out of my way to **** 'em off. There's no profit to be made in killing off T1 haulers full of mission loot when it's just going to draw the wolves to my green pastures.

I can say that those systems used to have the same half a dozen to to a dozen players every time I passed through; day or night, 7 days a week.
Now they're empty.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.04.15 00:25:00 - [2280]
 

Originally by: Aubrey Addams
EXUSE ME BUT WHERE IS THAT "REPORT BOTTING" BUTTON THEY PROMISED? Botters seems to be populating the belts here again.


Fixing the new forums is more important


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